hi every one i am new here, i just thought i have a look how everyones doing,to be honest i don’t really know how to say this but i feel down very down lately and keep thinking if i am depressed but could some one tell me how that feels so it can be confirmed that i am depressed sorry for being sily…please help and quickly…thank you.
Hi Jon: Well this is off-topic really, but since I feel I should give you an answer, I will. But if you truly want more responses to your question, you are better off making a new thread.
Depression in my experience: A period following a breakdown of sort, in which all the energy I have been putting into some structure of belief to help me ‘reach’ something, falls apart completely, violently. Then I usually spend some months in a state of depression.
If you are feeling really down lately, it could be depression, or it could not be. In the end, depression is just a label we use to classify our state of being. We should not hold on to that term with too much belief. We should not hang on to the story called: “I am depressed.” for that will only make things unclear.
You ask if someone can tell you how it feels like. I think I can, at least for as far as my experience goes with this. I usually feel like there is no point in doing anything really. I am truly and utterly unmotivated to be inspired or enthusiastic about anything whatsoever. Usually I am also physically much more dull in these times. Sitting around a lot, doing nothing special.
So the most apparent feeling is that of nothing being able to energize me, but also I feel hopeless in a sense, so one could say I feel ‘depressed’. Because I do not see any value in any action anymore. It may sound shallow when I put it like that, but the feelings can become pretty overwhelming if my light of awareness doesn’t shine brightly enough. Hopelessness to me is a good thing though, it break down the hopes I was having, the ‘false’ future I was projecting mentally, is lost completely and I am free in being hopeless.
Anxiety can also play its parts when in such period much more easily. I do learn a hell of a lot about myself through depression I must say and I am thankful to occasionally be depressed for a few months. Because it makes me able to let go of big chunks of belief systems and conditioned patterns. Afterwards my Self Awareness is so much deeper and more permanent.
So Jon, please don’t feel bad about being depressed (if you think you are), because depression is just another state of mind. Whether in a blissful state of joy and extacy or in a state of depression, it is both equal. True freedom lies in that which is there in both experiences, which is you, it lies not in the sensations experienced, but in the experiencer. Give yourself the love and time to feel the way you do. Don’t try to make yourself feel better all the time, don’t feel like you should feel better, but don’t get lost in the point of view of: “I am being depressed” either. I would also advice you not to make any conclusions or major decisions based on the feelings and thoughts you are having when feeling down. Just[U] let it be as it is[/U] without judging too much. If you manage to let it be an experience, if you allow it, accept it, I promise you, it will make you see and feel things much more clearly. It will even set you free and liberate you from false perception.
If you ever feel like sharing some more, just to hear how others are coping with it, feel free to contact me through PM or through the link in my signature.
With love,
Bentinho.
Hi Jon,
I started a new thread for your question. Let us know if you need some help with opening a new thread.
Cheers
Thank you for your reply Bentinho, it helped me to describe how I myself am feeling at this point in time. Several times over the last year and a half that I have been trying to deepen my practice and understanding of yoga, I have strayed from my teacher and also my personal practice. Each time, I felt a drowning despair - except this time I have just allowed myself to be content or unattached to my current state. Trying to do good and improve all of the time has been an obstacle hard to overcome, since it appears to be friend rather than foe (which it could be good if one doesn’t attach guilt or pride with progress). On the contrary, I also feel unsettled when I am practicing often and feel happy because I become too elated and feel a quality of rajas, and a lack of connection with the true self rather than a feeling of being grounded. Is this just another obstacle along the path of yoga and the death of the ego? Or is it sensible to allow my mood swings to take their course until I can at last approach my practice with a more sober and unattached state of mind? My greatest trouble is not keeping communication open with those around me, especially my teacher, which stems from the guilt I feel for not going through with my practice. I suppose I just have to try to explain myself to him despite feeling disappointing with myself. Also I am trying to complete an RYT teacher training program at the moment, so I am also concerned about completing the course and everything.
I would appreciate any of your opinions, thoughts, or advice on my worries. Has anybody else experienced some similar experiences to my own?
Thank you very much
Blah, get a grip on yourself. (Must confess, it feels so refreshing to be like the jerk Jack Nicholson from the movie “As good as it gets”)
People need things to look up to. I would dare to say, people to look up to. Why do you stray from your teacher ? Can’t you look up to him/her ?
In our righteous rage for personal freedom, we often forget that we do need sometimes the authority of someone who is more wise than we are. Maybe you think you are better than your teacher. Or you know things better. That shows that either you are yet unable to recognize the Teacher in him/her, or, indeed he/she is not the Teacher you need. In the first case, no teacher can yet teach you because your obstacles are inner ones, in second case you still did not do enough to find a real teacher. (there is a do we need a guru, or smthg like that thread - and many have said that the inner guru will do - and I say, sometimes it will, and sometimes you’ll need a serious ass-whooping from the outside)
Yes, the teacher can be the higher Self, bla-bla. But bla-bla won’t help. Before you can get in touch with the Higher Self … you need an image, or representation of it. (Bentinho will disagree, just because he passed this phase, but many still didn’t) I like to expereince the qualities of others as the expression of that Higher Self. Yes, the grace of a woman, the strenght of a man are also expressions of the Higher Self.
Some are happy to call That Jesus, as Jesus is the good human being we should try to become. Or some find comfort in the stories legends of old, about other spiritual figures, like Buddha, Milarepa, and so on. But what really matters is that all through these images, pictures, signs, to find one what leads you to a personal relationship with something higher than yourself. This is very important. If one tries always to be objective about one’s yoga, that is still being in the mind. When things become personal, subjective, than your practice has touched your soul, and in time, it will touch your spirit. And only through the eternal spirit (one step higher again) can one get in touch with That, what/whom some call Higher Self.
Anyway, a basic step is to find an nurture awe inspiring experiences. Don’t just label and stockpile stuff, but live them. The more one has an open, respectful, and awe inclined attitude towards the world, the sooner one will grow in the necessary qualities. The physical body, or the mind as a tool will only get us this far. But without the schooling of the astral body, the soul, will one get to real knowledge, and through that to a sense of purpose, stability, peace and inner strenght.
Follow your fate. That might be doing un-yogic things. Trying to be a saint surley depletes one. But even depleted states are useful, they teach us humility towards the greatness of what we and the world are. What is life if not this struggle to get over ourselves ? That’s why I dislike the teachings what say, oh, don’t be stressed, everything is allright. Well yes, being depressed is allright. But in true honesty, until one learns to balance bad experiences with the necessary attitude, they do suck. Even after that they suck but than you have the ability to get even and arrive to balance. And you will still strive for a world and for a self that is free of these painful expereinces. This thirst for better (and not just comfort) is what carries the us and the world forward. Yes, there is a purpose to all.
Dear Socks,
Is this just another obstacle along the path of yoga and the death of the ego? Or is it sensible to allow my mood swings to take their course until I can at last approach my practice with a more sober and unattached state of mind?
I’ll tell you the most profound way to be what you may have called grounded, or sober and unattached state of mind. What I am going to tell you probably needs more support, more consistent support than a one-time forum post of mine in order for it to become a lived experience, but I will tell you anyway.
The key lies in this sentence of yours:
is it sensible to allow my mood swings to take their course
That’s completely sensible, in fact, it’s only by letting your mood swings go completely (Hands off!) that you will see how you are more than your mood swings.
It’s really very simple and logical almost: you can either hang onto your ideas and judgments about yourself and you can hang on to your mood-swings, or you can let them run wild as they will and remain stable in your focus. or in more pleasant terms: you can relax as awareness; you can rest as that which is looking at your life.
Do you understand this choice?
You have many thoughts and judgments about yourself and you have many ideas about what is right and wrong in your spiritual practice. You belief you should practice more and do this and that and …etc. or else you will feel guilty and continue the judgmental cycle.
The most direct and total way to experience a vast ground beyond all these ideas, is by simply letting them run wild without believing in what they have to say. So for example, the thought:
[I]“I am not worthy of looking my teacher directly in the eyes, I am guilty of not practicing enough.”[/I]
Usually these thoughts tend to rule how we feel. our sense of well-being depends completely on these kinds of ideas. Why? Because we belief that these thoughts are true, while in fact, they have no meaning in and of themselves. They just come and go and having nothing whatsoever to define you with. It’s your belief and dependent attitude towards your own ideas and thoughts that make you feel the way you do.
The direct approach is to let all these thoughts and emotions be whenever they come and go. You simply rest as the awareness which sees them.
If you commit yourself to relaxing your belief and dependence on these ideas and moods and simply rest as the looking, you will discover that the true you is not affected by any mood or thought. You will see in your direct experience, how thoughts are just that: thoughts. They are simply appearances of awareness arising within awareness. like all dreams at night happen only in the mind and have no real independent nature.
Similarly, all that you experience in your life, is simply a mirage existing of nothing but spacious awareness.
If you return to this simple exercise of relaxing yourself and simply being peacefully aware of whatever is in that moment without clinging to whatever mirage comes along, you will experience first-handedly the free nature of your being. In time, you will start to trust more and more on this open, untouchable and space-like nature of ‘What’s Looking’ (awareness), and you will free yourself more and more from being controlled by your ideas and moods. They can be there, but they won’t affect your well-being, because you trust in the presence of your being there; the simple presence of awareness.
Does this make sense?
love,
Bentinho.
It quite natural that individuals might or might not be feeling down. It is fully based on individuals belief system. In order to get rid from the Depression i would suggest read some inspirational books from personlaities. Do meditation if you know. Whenever i feeling down i used to listen Ojas Foundation’s Ojas - Vedic Chanting, Eliminate Stress and Ardhana.
My father tried to kill me this summer. He was going to shoot me, but I took the gun away from him, when he pulled it on me. He then grabbed a hammer and began to swing it at me, telling me he was going to kill me. I was arrested and taken to jail, charged with stealing a gun. When I got out, it took me 3 hours to walk home. My yoga is awesome.
I have had depression since I was born. I used to think my extreme asthma was causing this, because when you can’t breathe, it causes you to think about death. Practicing yoga helped with my asthma, but my father wanted
me to believe I was evil, because I practice an eastern art. He is a deacon in his church. All my life all I ever heard was how God or Yahway was going to put me ineverlasting burning hell, because I don’t believe in things that can’t be proven by science.
I have 1 friend, no job and I am almost broke. I used to think about suicide all the time because my brain felt like it was being pulled apart. I don’t eat much, and I feel like poison is coming from inside my brain. The veins on the left side of my head pulse and rise.
Any ideas on this one?
Take solace in the fact that you’ve survived a hard situation this far – there’s something in you that wants to live. Keep paying attention to that while you keep looking for the elements of a healthy adult life you lack. (friends, financial self-support, adequate nourishment.) Wonder if there is a singular mission to your life, one of the world’s many problems that you are properly suited to bringing to a peaceful solution.
Good luck.
[quote=Reyals;26848]My father tried to kill me this summer. He was going to shoot me, but I took the gun away from him, when he pulled it on me. He then grabbed a hammer and began to swing it at me, telling me he was going to kill me. I was arrested and taken to jail, charged with stealing a gun. When I got out, it took me 3 hours to walk home. My yoga is awesome.
I have had depression since I was born. I used to think my extreme asthma was causing this, because when you can’t breathe, it causes you to think about death. Practicing yoga helped with my asthma, but my father wanted
me to believe I was evil, because I practice an eastern art. He is a deacon in his church. All my life all I ever heard was how God or Yahway was going to put me ineverlasting burning hell, because I don’t believe in things that can’t be proven by science.
I have 1 friend, no job and I am almost broke. I used to think about suicide all the time because my brain felt like it was being pulled apart. I don’t eat much, and I feel like poison is coming from inside my brain. The veins on the left side of my head pulse and rise.
Any ideas on this one?[/quote]
I don’t think ideas will help you. Part of yoga is creating a balaned environment for practice. Only advanced practitioners are able to maintain balance regardless of circumstances. One must do everything in ones’s power to attain as good a health as possible. That is a basic requirement. This is not always 100 % possible, and often duty (dharma) comes first. Than we need to settle with what has been given to us. The basic thought one needs to nurture in tough situations is the following: I myself wanted this to happen. I have everything to face it, I must go through it, with all my being. This involves concepts like karma/fate, and it’s beyond what can be given here.
Your precious science (what has it’s merits) is actually the result of what you despise in your father’s “religion”. They belong togheter as fruit and the tree. Neither you, nor your father are rigth, and both of you are right. As an eminent XIX century scientist said: the opposite of a deep truth, is not false, very often it is another deep truth.
It would take too long to justify what I just have said, but I think this is enough. If it has a chance to work on you, it will, and if not, than so be it.
Thanks for the replys. Much appreciated.
I dont go much for the magic in yoga, I like to keep it physical. I have had asthma all my life and yoga fixed it. I still have blockages but I am becoming more aware of what they are. When I feel a lot of stress, my brain pulses on the left side over my eye. I love to practice hard and push myself, but this brain pain is different. It goes thru my upper back and down my left leg. I feel it comes from years of stuff inside me, haunting me with poison. It wont go away. But a least I am healthy enough to take a gun away from someone who would have killed me. Yoga did that for me. And I know it can fix the rest, but I am missing something.
[QUOTE=Reyals;26896]And I know it can fix the rest, but I am missing something.[/QUOTE]
sounds like you’ve been through a lot in life. hope you keep up with your yoga and that the missing parts will be pieced together someday. the most important thing is to be at peace with yourself.
Thanks for the replys. Much appreciated.
I dont go much for the magic in yoga, I like to keep it physical… but I am missing something.
I believe you have answered your own question. You’re missing about 99.9% of Yoga. You are, of course, welcome to practice as you see fit, as it serves you, and call it whatever you’d like. However the physical practice called asana is a very very very small part of Yoga as a whole - though none of it is magic.
[QUOTE=Reyals;26896]years of stuff inside me, haunting me with poison. [/QUOTE]
Do you understand this in a physical sense, or is this a metaphor? If a metaphor, then you are not as adverse to the 99.9% of yoga that is not physical than you might think. (Or, than you might want to think given your aversion to your father’s lifestyle and beliefs.)
It might be time for you to wonder about the rest of yoga (indeed, the rest of life) that you have dismissed as ‘magic’.
I dont understand how anyone can say the physical practice can be .1%. My first yoga instructor is awesome. Through her will and creativity she created a place for me and many others to excel in an art form. A very dynamic art form. And at a really cheap price. It was nothing but a privilege and an honor to go through those practices. Those practices gave me more breath. Something that having asthma all my life, I missed out on. Breath is nothing to be taken for granted. It has allowed me to push myself further in strength, flexibility, focus, concentration, relaxing (the one I really suck at) and more. To me, that is gold. Over the past 2 years I have felt like I was losing weight through my nose ( the left side only). I feel like I am draining poison. The excessive stress in my brain is what I need to break through. And I got to this point through many years of the physical practice of yoga. I may not believe in a god, but if I did, I would thank “it” for the people involved - that made the physical practice a reality.
It sounds to me like you’re getting at some of the practice I would call non-physical, but you understand it to be physical. The assertion “I feel like I am draining poison” isn’t a measured phenomenon, but you have it going on. That’s great! Keep it going, and stay curious about how it is working and where it is reaching or not reaching.
Hey Reyals,
Is it possible you are struggling with semantics? People like to slice the world up into supposedly non-overlapping categories that we give fuzzy definitions to. I don’t mean this as a criticism… It’s just how we understand our experiences. This can become a big problem when we try to communicate our ideas with other people who may have very different definitions for the same words.
Using physical vs mental practice as an example:
It sounds like you define the “physical aspect” of your practice as the execution of asanas. It seems like you have a good teacher, so as part of this execution it’s probably true that you are learning to be mindful and aware of yourself. You are likely slowing your breathing, increasing your focus, and paying more attention to physiological feedback coming from your body. None of this requires any magic or hocus-pocus, but certainly falls out of certain definitions of the “physical aspect” of a practice.
I have read that you struggle with religion, and I can understand that. In order to be internally consistent, it has helped me immensely to recognize metaphors for what they are. Not everything has to be believed literally for it to have beneficial effects on you or your practice…
But I’m a scientist, not a yogi… So there’s that.
Boom King,
Yes the physical aspect are the poses and sequences ( i dont like to use the Sanskrit terms, because Im American, so i use American words). The left side of my body is draining liquid. This is physical. I can feel it and see it. I have a giant polyp in my left nostril and I think it comes from that. I push myself when I train, and for the past 2 years I have really tried to clean myself out. And it is working. But the polyp remains the same size.
I used to struggle with religion. I went to private christian school even for preschool. And was stuck there against my will until I graduated 12th grade. So there were many years of programming me as a child. To them, the Bible held all the answers. But this has been proven wrong many times. I can remember my so called Science teacher telling the class that fossils found on tops of mountains prove Noah’s ark. Please! But when you are programmed, you have to unprogram yourself. It took many years of studying science to undo all the brainwashing. My mind needs proof, thats how my mind works. I feel Christian school was abuse. It was always strange to me that people can have a so called relationship with a being who is no closer to you than a stranger.
When I finally understood evolution, it all became clear. And evolution is about improbability. To me, that is more beautiful than any god could ever be.
Thanks for your response. Its really uplifting to know there are people like you practicing yoga. And it is the art for Kings.
Reyals,
I understand the scientific process as i am majoring in Physics and share a similar attitude about life as you. I only believe in the things that i can feel. I dont think you should take anyone’s word for anything. Go find out for yourself.
That said, this one time i was meditating in a poorly formed sukhasana and felt a tingling just above the eye brows in the center of my forehead. The more i focused (that focus isnt a stern focus, more of a letting go), the more i felt it. This single experience led me on a knowledge seeking journey that ended at Tantra and Hatha yoga.
I probably know a lot less about this than you. Im just getting into yoga and getting my body into shape so that i can further explore my own mind. But what i would recommend for you would be to meditate going in with no prior established truths, leaving all possibilities open. Meditate with a smile. Enjoy the experience and listen and feel the body. Maybe you will feel tingling all over the body or at certain parts (for me, the tingling starts at the legs). If you do - as a scientist - your job would be to go figure out exactly what that feeling was.
PS: do you have any tips on how to keep a straight back while in sukhasana without supporting it with a pillow?
Thanks
Saucend,
You could do some standing meditation. Imagine you have a rope coming out of the top of your head. Grab the rope with one had and slowly sit your but down. Let your knees bend slightly. Find what you feel as straight, and hold it. Release the rope and then imagine holding a beach ball. Then try hanging from a pull up bar and let the spine stretch, bending the knees and keeping the feet on the floor. So you have control.
Play with the lotus. Youtube search Jiu Jitsu butterfly to get a different perspective and to understand how your feet can be like hands. Then play with lotus how you want. Try different ways to sit in lotus then straighten your back. You could practice next to the wall. Use it some and then pull away some. Just dont hurt yourself. It might set you back.
Support your local yoga studio. Challenge your instructor with a scientific question every now and then. And everything you learn, make it all yours.