Are most yoga teachers these days anything but? At what point is someone qualified to teach yoga? After 200 hours of training? After 500? After 5000? After 11 days on the beach in Mexico sipping Martinis and doing asana? After learning how to market themselves really well? Or is there some other variable in the equation that is necessary before you can teach yoga to others?
Rhetorical?
Hi David,
a good question I am quite occupied with atm, since I have no teacher and am looking for one. I can tell you what I take into consideration when I gather information about a potential teacher (that might not be on spot with your question, though, but close enough I hope):
First, I must personally like them. I visted many websites and did not like a good number of the teachers. Just by looking at their pictures or (which gives a better impression) videos. A website without an image is one very bad sign already, since they should know how important that is and include at least an image. It’s not a rationale reason and particularly not a definite aspect - someone else might like them a lot and if only an image would be keeping me from meeting them, it would not be enough and I’d at least go there and see for myself. But already Asana-practice is quite intimate, the student kinda surrenders to the teacher, and that can only work if the chemistry between the two of them is good.
The second thing is personal integrity of the teacher. This is a large cluster, many aspects belong to it. They have to be real, open, truthful, friendly, understanding. They must embrace the Yogic way as good as they can. They do not have to be as perfect as for example I think Dharma Mittra is, but they should quite obviously be on their way. That already is quite rare. Anything pretentious I find very alienating.
A good sign for integrity is if it’s visible that they aren’t in it for the money, even though they live from teaching. Many websites have shops and “buy this book” and their smart pricing terms up front: That’s ok for a gym, not for a Yoga-studio. An excellent sign is, when they offer classes on a donation base. I know they must live and I want to pay, that’s not the point, but they should not do their thing to maximize profit and in case someone really hasn’t got the money, still accept them as a student. I guess this is the reason, why many people (including myself) aren’t actually hot for Bikram.
Decency and humility is very important, another area where Bikram fails. Certificates, hrs of training and all that, is helpful information, yes, but they should not try to impress or convince with these things, particularly because mostly when I see such lists, I have no idea what it means anyway. I saw a video today, where a 500 hrs training included, as you note, marketing and management issues. What do I care what they know about that. A good thing would be to as well give a detailled information what such a certificate is about, what kind of education is involved, 100 hours can easily be acquired in two weeks or less.
So: To teach Yoga, personal issues aside knowledge and expertise are very important for me.
When it comes to knowledge and expertise I’d say, one has to try the teacher. There is no hard fact or data or number or piece of paper that can really say anything about their quality. I must attend a lesson and it must work, they must be able to tell me stuff and show me stuff that takes me further. I must leave the class not only with an “oh, I did Yoga”-feeling, I don’t need someone to provide a room and some ambience. I must leave them and take something valuable and helpful with me. That should be at best something else than plain information one can find anywhere in a book, but something for me personally. A mistake corrected, a workaround to a problem, a new Asana to help with my progress.
The teacher has to have a sense for who I am and where I stand and what I need to progress and how to teach me just that.
A final note to your question:
is there some other variable in the equation that is necessary before you can teach yoga to others?
The students themselves of course. Like in that saying: The sage will even learn from the idiot, while the idiot won’t even learn from the sage.
(PS: Sorry for the length of this, I had no time to keep it brief. 
)
No. While I do have an opinion, I felt the desire to just ask the questions initially. I’m feeling feisty today 
I’m glad you didn’t keep it brief. Thank you for sharing your insight 
Three things can not be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."
-Buddha
[quote=LivingDreams;28179]Three things can not be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."
-Buddha[/quote]
I see Buddha has never visited my island during the rainy season.
Anyway, what does that quote mean to you in the context of this discussion?
Is anyone these days anything but?
The blind leading the blind.
This evening I have handled some mediation at work between sparring groups of contractors at the job site I am currently stationed. I sent out a - what someone kindly refers to as ‘peace loving hippy bull****’ email (that no one will read), where I told everyone that they were a team, working together for a common goal, and that there need not be any disharmony amongst us. That we are all capable of coming to work and making the choice to get along every morning. Some of us are blind, some of us are more blind, but that doesn’t mean anything.
As teachers of yoga or of information systems (my job), we know that someone is always going to be either better, or more qualified that another person, and BOTH sides are able to reach their hands out to engage the other. We can get along, we can support and teach each other (thereby raising the bar!) or we can just not do that. But just imagine how must better our day would be if we came online and posted feisty comments about how AWESOME EVERYONE IS, because they are.
Thank you and good night.
[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;28175] Like in that saying: The sage will even learn from the idiot, while the idiot won’t even learn from the sage. [/QUOTE]
THAT is the best thing I have heard all day.
I think I should probably recite it to the people I work with tomorrow when they all wake up and fail to read that email I sent out.
Hi David,
I will attempt to ration the gist of your many questions.
Yoga practice is expanding at a vigorous rate, and is the the fastest growing physical activity in the world. To service the ever-growing population turning to yoga, the ‘industry’ needs to get fresh blood out there teaching at a rate matching the expansion, or run the risk of depleting the existing teacher pool. So, 200 / 500 / 1000 hour programs are developed, and some include exotic locations and sweet drinks to lure and capitalize on potential trainees. The sharper thorns on the bush will get and memorize the yoga moves quickly and go on to build great studios.
Now, at what point does a teacher / trainee become truly yogic? That’s another question altogether.
There is definitely a lot of “the blind leading the blind” in the yoga world these days. As one who has practiced, studied and taught Yoga for many years, I’m dismayed by the number of “teachers” that are being cranked out these days by studios that make better money at that than they do by teaching classes. People are being trained by “teachers” who themselves have minimal training and experience ( I know of one where the main teacher trainer has only 200 hr training, less than 1 yr of teaching experience and no personal practice to speak of). I’m glad that a number of states have started regulating Yoga teacher training programs since, unfortunately, the the self-regulation supposedly being handled by Yoga Alliance has been, IMHO, a failure.
Not sure that there is a shortage of yoga teachers for the ever expanding -growing population,I know some wannabe teachers who wouldnt do one of the old school trainings because they are too demanding , the students are actually assessed and only allowed to teach following rigorous assesments and criteria,so better to go for an expensive training where everybody is given positive feedback and told how they are wonderful, be it a weekend or 200 hours,these courses are often run by people with little experience of yoga (ie less than about 15 years),they often claim some world renowned teachers as their teacher yet completely ignore the wishes of that teacher and go ahead and give teacher trainings to all comers as long as you have the dollars no problem,they can give you a certificate,just dont expect much follow up in the way of further trainings or keeping standards up or mentoring.Do the maths ,lets say around ?5000 for training and you can stay in a glorified straw hut (Air conditioned of course)on a tropical beach being served by peolple who work all the hours for a pittance . multiply that by 15 people and hey hey, youre talking big bucks .
These trainings are often given in third world locations where the price of a lesson can be a months wage for an unskilled worker.There is often no concept of the legality of running a business in another country, bribes are given or the law of the land doesnt apply to rich westerners with their eurodollars.Imagine an indian for example coming to usa or uk and setting up a business without the legal process being followed,they would be lucky to be allowed in the country.
Yoga teaching is a wonderful thing to be able to share but I fear the essence is being missed its not a lifestyle choice for people burnt out by being in the media/fashion/film/dance/celeb blah blah business so they can live in exotic locations with cheap food rent,be adored by fawning students in some kind of love in ,while they charge top prices for dodgy trainings,where everybody gets what they want regardless of suitability or standard.They often usually advertise themselves as having trained in the usual suspect schools ,when in fact they have attended a few asana lessons ,but decided to share there new style with us that has been adapted for the westerner,and is of course the “best type of yoga” oh and by the way they teach high profile clients and celebrities,am I supposed to be impressed or moved by that?
Of course im sure there are some wonderful trainings given by inspirational teacher /yogis Although the teacher who For me who has for me shown what I imagine to be yogic qualities , has never given a teacher training in over 40 years of intense practice.
It is of course wonderful that Yoga is being shared by many, to many , but lets not lose the true gifts in a rush of business and lack of humility.At the end of the day a certificate is just a piece of paper.
Peace love and joy
[QUOTE=vyigfu;28191]There is definitely a lot of “the blind leading the blind” in the yoga world these days.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure this is a fair statement. I’ve only been exposed to the yoga community and experience for a short time <5 years. But, I have met some young - 200 hourers - that are very good and dedicated to their practice and their teachings, continually growing themselves and passing knowledge on. And I have met some very experienced lifers (been to India several times, blah, blah, blah,) who sleepwalk through their classes. And a few in-between.
I agree that we at the stage where a systmatic process could be developed to ensure ‘hacks’ don’t take over. However, I do believe that people in general, regardless of their level of experience, can spot the hacks.
I have a question about these x-hours-teacher-trainings, maybe certified people can answer:
What is going on in these hours? Are you doing your own Yoga there, getting instructions for your own Asana practice?
Or are you for example an assistant to an already certified teacher and learn how to help other practitioners? Or do you learn theory? For example had I recently watched a video by Paul Grilley, Anatomy for Yoga, maybe some people know it, he lectures about individual skeletal setups and shows how different people are different and how a teacher has to support them accordingly. Is teacher training like that? Does it include Yogic theory, philosophy, chakra-theory and so on?
And is there some sort of exam, where one has to show they actually understood what they learned or are you getting certified just by having been there?
[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;28194]I’m not sure this is a fair statement. I’ve only been exposed to the yoga community and experience for a short time <5 years. But, I have met some young - 200 hourers - that are very good and dedicated to their practice and their teachings, continually growing themselves and passing knowledge on. And I have met some very experienced lifers (been to India several times, blah, blah, blah,) who sleepwalk through their classes. And a few in-between.
I agree that we at the stage where a systmatic process could be developed to ensure ‘hacks’ don’t take over. However, I do believe that people in general, regardless of their level of experience, can spot the hacks.[/QUOTE]
Of course it’s true that in any field you have those who are new and great at it and those who’ve been around for years and are not so great. I’m not denying there are many good and dedicated teachers out there. I’m addressing the minimally trained “teachers” who are causing injury to unaware students. Unfortunately, the “hacks” may not be spotted before an injury occurs. I’ve made a good living the last few years helping people injured in yoga classes they took from untrained teachers and the numbers of those injuries have increased sharply with the rise in popularity of yoga among the mainstream and the concurrent rise in minimally trained teachers.
[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;28197]I have a question about these x-hours-teacher-trainings, maybe certified people can answer:
What is going on in these hours? Are you doing your own Yoga there, getting instructions for your own Asana practice?
Or are you for example an assistant to an already certified teacher and learn how to help other practitioners? Or do you learn theory? For example had I recently watched a video by Paul Grilley, Anatomy for Yoga, maybe some people know it, he lectures about individual skeletal setups and shows how different people are different and how a teacher has to support them accordingly. Is teacher training like that? Does it include Yogic theory, philosophy, chakra-theory and so on?
And is there some sort of exam, where one has to show they actually understood what they learned or are you getting certified just by having been there?[/QUOTE]
Yes to all of the above. There is no standard here in the US, other than that espoused by Yoga Alliance. Even then, they have no follow-up. They are simply a registration organization. There’s weekend certification programs to multi-year programs and everything in between.
As you know David, I’ve often outlined the difference or gap between being trained to practice yoga and being trained to teach yoga. This is similar for other professions. There are some brilliant math students who cannot, for the life of them, convey their brilliance to others. Likewise the skills required to have one’s own yoga practice are not the same as those required to teach yoga to others.
[B]When Are They Ready[/B]
When the student of yoga is able to comprehend that yoga is vast, when they are able to fathom that the practice is not exercise, when they “get” that teaching this thing must have purpose beyond the body, they may be ripening.
When they are taught to teach, understand how to speak to others, modulate their voice, commit to continuing their study, embody the harmony of living in integrity, AND understand the teachings themselves are NOT about them (ego) then they may be ready.
We have many people wearing the label of “yoga teacher”. Some of those people have 22 hours of “teacher training”. This is obviously ridiculous. There’s no point in looking deeply into the list of a 20-hour trainee as that says enough. However when the trainee has more than 200 hours of training we must look at a longer list of requisites. I believe a 200-hour training is the bare minimum. It is the start. But even the week of my certification (after 2 years and 2,000) Aadil said to me “Two years does not a master make”.
[B]Consider Being a Teacher[/B]
Some deeply consider their path while others do not. As a teacher my job is to hold the nature of yoga, preserve it’s authenticity and lineage while at the same instance looking to see how it may grow to serve humanity - not how it may grow to serve my own ego, needs, cravings, tastes or desires.
That must be balanced with the context in which we live. I bring this up because class fees were broached earlier. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a teacher sharing something sacred with a student and receiving compensation or payment for that. Classically, the student took complete care of the teacher in exchange for the teaching. So when students are willing to come to the teacher’s house, provide food, clean, and educate children, then there will not be any fee.
While it may be the dharma of some to donate their time or teach for free or have a sliding scale or a donation-based class it is not every teacher’s dharma. Further, it is a bit ignorant to presume that a student who knows nothing about yoga or the way(s) it is imparted could possibly ascertain it’s worth especially in the early years of their practice. Keeping a yoga studio open may serve many. Closing one serves almost no one.
[B]What Constitutes a Training[/B]
In my particular 2,000 teacher training (x-hours) we had 4-hour long anatomy and physiology classes, lectures on the nature and application of philosophy, instruction in our own asana practice, instruction in reading poetry, instruction in teaching postures, pranayama, restorative, meditation, therapeutics, research papers on other yoga practices and other healing modalities, book reports, self-evaluations…etcetera…
Sorry to hear you do not see sunshine on a cloudy day on your island.
In my world the truth is constant and that truth is love.
If I am not mistaken we are all students for life learning how to be kind and not violent with thoughts, words, or actions. To be caring and not selfish or greedy. To have positive pure energy and appreciation of where we are in the now. And to have self control, devotion and awareness of how we direct our inner light.
Namaste my brother.
[quote=suryadaya;28183]Is anyone these days anything but?
The blind leading the blind.[/quote]
That’s a good question and may indeed be the case. I don’t know.
I agree that everyone is awesome. However, many of those awesome people partake in actions that suck. John Q. Banker is no doubt awesome but if he is pillaging, then his actions suck. Jane P Yoga Teacher is surely an awesome person but if she is teaching asana in a manner that causes injury in her students, then her actions are lacking.
How many of us who are certified teachers are honest with ourselves? I remember being told a story about a zen master who was giving a speech and felt nervous. He realized then that he was not fit to lead his students. He went back to being a student and eight years later returned ready to teach.
Me? Personally? You won’t see me teaching much if any asana and let me tell you, my ego hates when I admit that. I’m not ready. I don’t have a strong enough understanding/experience/knowledge/wisdom of many areas that, in my opinion, are necessary for me to provide the student with what they need when it comes to asana.
If someone wants to learn to play again or heal traumas or meditate or laugh, I can most definitely share my yoga.
We live in a world where people are hurting. Big time. They’re hurting physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. And I worry that some of us are hurting them more because we can’t be honest with ourselves. As someone who HAS been injured and traumatized because of people who lacked training/integrity/honesty or whatever, I don’t want others to experience what I have.
Me too as that would be a cool trick! Luckily I love the rain so it’s all good. 
Well said
Namaste and aloha.
[QUOTE=LivingDreams;28206]Sorry to hear you do not see sunshine on a cloudy day on your island.
In my world the truth is constant and that truth is love.
If I am not mistaken we are all students for life learning how to be kind and not violent with thoughts, words, or actions. To be caring and not selfish or greedy. To have positive pure energy and appreciation of where we are in the now. And to have self control, devotion and awareness of how we direct our inner light.
Namaste my brother.[/QUOTE]
<3
This is great.
Hi InnerAthlete, thanks for the reply.
posted by Quetzalcoatl
A good sign for integrity is if it’s visible that they aren’t in it for the money, even though they live from teaching. Many websites have shops and “buy this book” and their smart pricing terms up front: That’s ok for a gym, not for a Yoga-studio. An excellent sign is, when they offer classes on a donation base. I know they must live and I want to pay, that’s not the point, but they should not do their thing to maximize profit and in case someone really hasn’t got the money, still accept them as a student. I guess this is the reason, why many people (including myself) aren’t actually hot for Bikram.
posted by InnerAthlete
Consider Being a Teacher
Some deeply consider their path while others do not. As a teacher my job is to hold the nature of yoga, preserve it’s authenticity and lineage while at the same instance looking to see how it may grow to serve humanity - not how it may grow to serve my own ego, needs, cravings, tastes or desires.That must be balanced with the context in which we live. I bring this up because class fees were broached earlier. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a teacher sharing something sacred with a student and receiving compensation or payment for that. Classically, the student took complete care of the teacher in exchange for the teaching. So when students are willing to come to the teacher’s house, provide food, clean, and educate children, then there will not be any fee.
While it may be the dharma of some to donate their time or teach for free or have a sliding scale or a donation-based class it is not every teacher’s dharma. Further, it is a bit ignorant to presume that a student who knows nothing about yoga or the way(s) it is imparted could possibly ascertain it’s worth especially in the early years of their practice. Keeping a yoga studio open may serve many. Closing one serves almost no one.
I agree with most of what you say; I’m not sure about the Dharma-thing, if you care to, please explain. Some people don’t have the choice to do donation-based-Yoga-classes…?
Outside that: Sure it’s not “wrong” to pay for being tought Yoga. But it is not right as well. It’s a necessity, because the vessels of such teachings require food, clothing and a place to sleep and if they had to work in the coalmines to gain the money for all that, they could not teach Yoga and could not make the world a better place. Very true, never even remotely questioned by me.
What they teach, that sacred knowledge, is a gift, even if they paid for a training or paid their Guru. Whatever money or duty or stuff they gave away to acquire that knowledge: It’s far from being representative of the worth of such knowledge. Such knowledge is priceless.
What I’m trying to say (English isn’t my first language, btw) is, that it says much about a teachers integrity if they are willing to teach people without the fee, particularly people who cannot afford it. It requires some courage too to go such a path, because we’re living in messed up times ever since the consciousness has been invented. Some students might take advantage of such courage and pay little or nothing even though they could. But since it’s Yoga and not weightlifting, I doubt that would be much of a problem. Wholehearted students will willingly pay and most of the few who intentionally rip off a teacher will only attend to a class a handful of times and then give it up again. I don’t think I’m naive here, Yoga changes people and most students would be ashamed of such undignified behaviour. On the contrary, many students would do their best to help a teacher to keep up their good work and pay even more than what’s the average fee. I know I would.
Take yourself: You’re giving away lot’s of knowledge in this forum on a daily base. That costs you time. Some other teacher might not do such things, because they’re not so good with computers or this way of communication. Why should they not invest the time you invest here into teaching some students for free? Dharma? Hm…
What Constitutes a Training
In my particular 2,000 teacher training (x-hours) we had 4-hour long anatomy and physiology classes, lectures on the nature and application of philosophy, instruction in our own asana practice, instruction in reading poetry, instruction in teaching postures, pranayama, restorative, meditation, therapeutics, research papers on other yoga practices and other healing modalities, book reports, self-evaluations…etcetera…
Thanks for telling. 2000 hours, I’d say that’s the least a good teacher should have, not 200. 200 is nothing if you asked me. I read a few schedules on 200- and 500-hours teacher training, like here:
http://www.yogaalliance.org/Standards.html
and I kinda got the impression that what’s tought there should actually be stuff any person truly into Yoga should have long learned before they even start a teacher training. I already have more x-hours in Anatomy and Physiology, Philosophy/Ethics/Lifestyle. Only via books and videos and forums and discussions with insightful friends in real life, but I doubt that’s necessarily less profound than personal instruction. Such certificates are more or less only a minimal insurance for a student. If a teacher has such a certificate, the student can assume they have at least that bit of knowledge. Not impressive.
Again: I’m not saying a certificate means nothing. It means something and the meaning is related to the number of hours too. But is it more than a vague start to get a remote idea of the quality of a teacher? I don’t think so and that’s why to me, this is none of those variables David asked about. Others, obviously, may have a different point of view on this.