A poll about God and the hereafter

Spirituality Religion
#21

In that case Hinduism is not a religion either. It is also not a system of faith.

Such a definition of religion is limiting and misleading. A religion is anything which makes positive claims about the supernatural and metaphysical, recommends rituals and practices for moral/spiritual development.

Buddhism makes many positive claims about the supernatural and metaphysical including the existence of other planes of reality. It does have many rituals and has entire paths for moral/spiritual development.

Both Buddhism and Hinduism are formally recognised to be religions.

#22

Buddhism goes beyond religion. Buddhists do not worship. Hindu’s worship God, do they not? The path that the Buddha taught is a study of and training of ones mind. It is the trappings of modern society, especially western influence, that has classified Buddhism a religion. It does not advocate the worshiping of God in the physical form, hence it is not seen as a true religion.

I do see your point about the metaphysical. But Buddhists do discount many that other religions hold

#23

Again, it is a limiting and misleading definition to say religion is just about worship of god. A religion, in the broader sense is anything which has beliefs, moral codes and rituals. This is the definition Emile Durkheim uses in sociology.

There are some religions which have nothing to do with a worship of god. Taoism for instance is all about the Tao, the universal force, the flow. Yet Taoism has a whole host of metaphysical belief, rituals, deities and moral codes.

Similarly, while Buddhism does not worship god. It gives religious significance to void and nothingness. While Buddha did not say worship me, many of the Buddhist rituals involve worshipping an idol of Buddha, invoking his name, burning incense, chanting mantras, repeating religious vows and ones allegiance to the sangh. Some forms of Buddhism very clearly worship minor deities. The Buddhist 8-fold path very much dictates a moral practice.

Secular traditions differ from religious traditions because they only endorse the natural and remain silent on the metaphysical. They do not impose any kind of moral codes on you or beliefs on you, other than laws of the state. They largely remain neutral on these matters. Science and academia are secular traditions.

Buddhism is not secular. It is misleading and disingenious to tell somebody that Buddhism is secular/non religious.

Even though I claim that Hinduism is through and through a science. I will not go as far to say it is not religious. It is clear to anybody who has eyes that it is religious. It is a scientific and philosophical religion. It is religion because it has a whole host of metaphysical doctrines, moral codes, rituals and practices. It is a science because those doctrines, moral codes, rituals and practices are grounded in rationality.

#24

So, from a Buddhist perspective, if Buddhism is not a religion then rebirth or reincarnation is not considered religious. It simply IS. No faith required.

But if you say that to a Christian, he will say that that goes against his faith and cannot accept this as “simply is.”

And that is how it is with many who teach yoga and those in the yoga world.

Reincarnation “simply is,” and that’s that, and if you don’t like it, then don’t do yoga or at least pretend to go along with it, because you’re going to be hearing a lot about it, and it will be discussed as a fact, regardless if it is totally contrary to your own religious beliefs.

#25

But isn’t the belief in heaven and the ‘other’ life after resurrection a belief in reincarnation?

#26

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;41767]But isn’t the belief in heaven and the ‘other’ life after resurrection a belief in reincarnation?[/QUOTE]

Not in the same way as those who believe in reincarnation.

We believe our own bodies will be resurrected and rejoined to our soul.

There will be perfect continuity. Those who live on Earth who I knew will be the same people in Heaven. Uncle Joe will still be Uncle Joe. My mother and father will still be the same people they were (though I trust not so grouchy as they were). George Washington will still be George Washington. (assuming all these people actually do make it to Heaven)

#27

There are Buddhists who believe Buddhism is not a religion. This is a fact. There are Buddhists who believe Buddhism is a religion. This is a fact. There are Buddhists who believe in God and most who do not. Some believe in reincarnation, some in rebirth. What I’m getting at is Buddhism comes in many forms.

And Surya Deva I am sick and tired of you constantly saying disingenuous. Can you never bring up anything without resorting to mean spirited attacks? I have no need to defend myself or what I have said.

And Thomas, I don’t know what to tell you. Not all yoga teachers bring up reincarnation or rebirth in their classes. You can choose not to attend if it bothers you. The vast majority of yoga teachers that I know only teach asana. Nothing else.

And at this point, I am taking a break from this forum.

#28

After Christs resurrection, didn’t he appear and wasn’t recognized? what was that account I cant remember?

#29

Asuri wrote this some time ago, I thought it was interesting

Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, verily , verily , I say unto thee except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Matthew 9.17
Neither do men put new wine into old wineskins, else the wineskins break, and the wine runs out, and the wineskin perish; but they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.

I know its not the orthodox interpretation, but I’ve always viewed these verses as being about reincarnation. I get the sense that Jesus is talking about individuals here…

#30

[QUOTE=kareng;41774]Asuri wrote this some time ago, I thought it was interesting

Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, verily , verily , I say unto thee except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Matthew 9.17
Neither do men put new wine into old wineskins, else the wineskins break, and the wine runs out, and the wineskin perish; but they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.

I know its not the orthodox interpretation, but I’ve always viewed these verses as being about reincarnation. I get the sense that Jesus is talking about individuals here…[/QUOTE]

Being “born again” is referring to a spiritual rebirth.

We are born with the stain of Original Sin, and Baptism is a rebirth that restores a spiritual life to the soul.

#31

And Surya Deva I am sick and tired of you constantly saying disingenuous. Can you never bring up anything without resorting to mean spirited attacks? I have no need to defend myself or what I have said.

Easy solution is to not say anything then. However, when you do say something, and it is misleading and disingenious, it is going to be called out either by yours truly or by somebody else.

Buddhism is a religion. Stop kidding yourself it isn’t.

#32

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;41800]Easy solution is to not say anything then. However, when you do say something, and it is misleading and disingenious, it is going to be called out either by yours truly or by somebody else.

Buddhism is a religion. Stop kidding yourself it isn’t.[/QUOTE]

I agree that it’s a religion, but how is she being disingenuous for saying what she believes?

#33

ahh I see x

#34

She is not saying that she believes that. She is saying it IS that.

#35

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;41807]She is not saying that she believes that. She is saying it IS that.[/QUOTE]

So?

That’s what she believes. If she made her statement in good faith, she was being genuine. If she intended to deceive, only then would she be disingenuous.

If I say it’s 80 degrees because unknown to me, my thermometer is broken, and it’s really 60 degrees, am I being disingenuous?

#36

Dont know why Ah I see was put on here it was meant for another post???

disingenuous is to be insincere, calculatingly, Lotusgirl is definitely not that.!!
You are using the term incorrectly in this case. Apologies SD needed!!

There are many different definitions regarding what religion is…to say Buddhism is or is not will remain an arguable point. Lotusgirl is right in that it is the most widely stated, that it isn’t. SD is right in that the definition of a religion by some, puts parts of Buddhism into its definition

The reason for people bowing to and appearing to worship Buddha is to exercise humility and thereby reduce the ego. Generally, as well, it is respect.

#37

But there is no doubt that some Buddhist beliefs contradict Christian beliefs. From the perspective of a Christian, Buddhism would be a religion, and one that a Christian would have to reject.

#38

Christianity is not a religion, it is a philosophy :wink:

#39

Thomas it doesn’t matter about rejection, I’m talking about where Buddhism draws at least some parallels with Christianity…thats what I am stating. And for that matter there are many other faiths that draw those parallels. Because they are obvious, if you covet someones wife, there will be trouble,… yes. Its obvious and Buddhism would support that

Surya …slap n thrash ha

#40

SD you stated on another thread that you need to work on compassion. Well you still haven’t apologised to Lotusgirl for aiming disingenuous at her, has it not occurred to you yet?, if it hasn’t, I am here to advise you it is needed, an apology…you see an old soul would never had made this error in the first place and this is why I suggested you are a young soul, an intellectual young soul.

I retracted my statement, because who am I to be able to measure the age of ones soul, but the question of honesty arises and I have to be honest with you in this instance and say again I think in fact you are a young soul for not being able to recognise when you have gone too far and even more so for being told and still not acting on it…I have suggested it once to you, Thomas has and I have even directed the point with humour… but still you fail to get it.
When you go into practicing spirituality, in full, I wonder what measures your Master will apply to get it through to you…will a good thrashing be what it takes!