[QUOTE=kareng;50992]Billy, you will have to hold your ground…its the Jesus/resurrection debate…
It’s the Christian ace up the sleeve row…[/QUOTE]
You mean the stuff about everyone becoming as zombie as Jesus became? Those silly Christians and their necromancy…
[QUOTE=kareng;50993]wARNING not suitable for hindus to watch
…
The Bible offers self realisation by holding the same important elements of the process expressed in Hinduism, so the individual can become self realised following some of their Christian rules. just as they can in Hinduism and all the others, yes?
There is no doctrine of self in the bible, so there is no self-realization in the bible. This is why I am saying it is a false religion. It does not teach you about the profound and inner divine reality within all of us. Rather it teaches you about a fictitious being called god who lives in heaven alongside a hierarchy of angels sitting on his throne judging everybody, sending people to either heaven or hell, and teaches you to surrender to this heavenly tyrant.
It is clearly a false a religion.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51038]There is no doctrine of self in the bible, so there is no self-realization in the bible. This is why I am saying it is a false religion. It does not teach you about the profound and inner divine reality within all of us. Rather it teaches you about a fictitious being called god who lives in heaven alongside a hierarchy of angels sitting on his throne judging everybody, sending people to either heaven or hell, and teaches you to surrender to this heavenly tyrant.
It is clearly a false a religion.[/QUOTE]
You looking at the objects, wording etc I’m talking about the experience. The end result will be the same…it leads to it through practice. Do you imagine that everyone practising their thing isn’t getting something or a lot, out of it? as much a Hindu might wth Hinduism? You only think they are not getting what the Hindu gets. They have enough elements of the process that leads to self realisation, divine experience but put in a different package. Each lifetime spent in their religion will be felt in the next life to varying degrees. Or, at some point. Wanting to repeat, echo things outside of the faith they might belong to now even.
Well, again to repeat: there is no doctrine of self in the Abrahamic religions. Therefore there is no self-realization in these religion and no practices geared towards self-realization.
Adherents of Abrahamic religions are spiritually impoverished because they are not taught about the Self or taught any practices that lead to self-realization. There is no spirituality in these religions.
The end result is not going to be the same for an adherent practicing an Abrahamic religion and an adherent practicing a dharmic religion. The one practicing the abrahamic religion is going to get taught no spirituality at all and no personal practices for spiritual development(as the self is not recognised) Rather, they will be taught to occasionally pray to the Abrahamic god, occasionally attend mass at Church/mosque and to occasionally give to charity. The Hindu, on the other hand will be taught about spirituality, taught about spiritual development and given practices to do daily in order to develop spiritually to produce actual results.
I really don’t understand why anybody who is serious about their spiritual development would choose any religion other than Hinduism or Buddhism.
Abrahamic religions are false religions. Pure and simple.
It does not teach you about the profound and inner divine reality within all of us.
Jesus said the Kingdon of Heaven is within you.
There is no spirituality in these religions
As usual, you lump two very diverse spiritualities into one. Christianity–especially Catholicism–is extremely spiritual, and you obviously have little knowledge about Catholic prayers, the sacraments, Mass, private devotions, etc.
I really don’t understand why anybody who is serious about their spiritual development would choose any religion other than Hinduism or Buddhism.
I chose Christianity because I believe Jesus existed and did and said what the NT says he did. So there is no other choice.
Abrahamic religions are false religions. Pure and simple.
Elvis Presley is alive and well in Newark, NJ. Pure and simple.
[QUOTE=thomas;51060]Jesus said the Kingdon of Heaven is within you.
As usual, you lump two very diverse spiritualities into one. Christianity–especially Catholicism–is extremely spiritual, and you obviously have little knowledge about Catholic prayers, the sacraments, Mass, private devotions, etc.
I chose Christianity because I believe Jesus existed and did and said what the NT says he did. So there is no other choice.
Elvis Presley is alive and well in Newark, NJ. Pure and simple.[/QUOTE]
Oh yes. Within that one statement, I can learn how to do postures, how to meditate…amazing.
No it is not spiritual. Having a bunch of rituals doesn’t make a religion spiritual. All Christianity is, is devotional worship like Bhakti Hinduism. There is no spirituality in meaningless myths, antiquated ideals, and so forth.
So you chose Christianity because of your unsubstantiated faith in a man who most likely never lived…while you reject other religions that have been proven to contain much real-life import…amazing.
Let me tell you something Thomas; I was accused of being intolerant when I was condemning the intolerant doctrines within Islam and Christianity in response to someone at my table who was crapping on Buddhism. “Buddhists worship a human who is inferior to Jesus because he wasn’t God.” You also have these views, don’t you? Admit it.
And you say Christianity contains much spirituality.
The West is truly a depressing place…
No, it means that I can make an outrageous claim too. It doesn’t mean it’s true, even if I add “pure and simple” at the end.
[QUOTE=thomas;51077]No, it means that I can make an outrageous claim too. It doesn’t mean it’s true, even if I add “pure and simple” at the end.[/QUOTE]
Sigh* The day Christians that realize that they are the most ignorant people on the planet and the day they reform themselves is the day hell freezes over…which is never.
I am going to stop talking about Christianity for a while. My hatred for it is at an all time high and I certainly don’t want to lose myself in it.
Hatred is not a good thing.
I don’t hate any religion. I try to see the good. I try to understand the believer, and even if the religion seems a little kooky to me, at least I strive to give the benefit of the doubt to them, and credit them for believing as they do in good faith, and striving to be better people.
[QUOTE=thomas;51082]Hatred is not a good thing.
I don’t hate any religion. I try to see the good. I try to understand the believer, and even if the religion seems a little kooky to me, at least I strive to give the benefit of the doubt to them, and credit them for believing as they do in good faith, and striving to be better people.[/QUOTE]
No beating around the bush Thomas. You still believe your religion is superior because of its supposedly superior teachings.
I, however, believe that any religion is superior to Christianity and Islam because OF ITS FLAWS.
There is quite a difference between the two. I implore everyone to think about it before they call me a Hindutva nationalist, while ignoring the inherent chauvinism characterizing most Christians/Muslims.
I SHOULD believe my religion is “superior.” If I thought it was inferior, I would switch to the religion superior to it. What’s wrong with that thinking?
That doesn’t mean I hate other religions.
Jesus said the Kingdon of Heaven is within you.
Indeed he did in one of the gospels, but only the gnostics interpret this literally. Are you a gnostic now Thomas?
As usual, you lump two very diverse spiritualities into one. Christianity–especially Catholicism–is extremely spiritual, and you obviously have little knowledge about Catholic prayers, the sacraments, Mass, private devotions, etc.
These are not spirituality, but religious ritual. There is a big difference. Spirituality is Yoga where the Yogi deliberately attempts to connect to the inner and divine reality by ceasing the modifications of his mind. He does this either by 1) Meditation, where he regularly meditates for hours to still his mind by watching the mind detached 2) By devotion where he worships the divine reality day in and day out by abstracting an external form or idol, worshipping it, chanting the name of their god constantly, hearing stories about their god constantly, holdings fasts for their god, singing hymns to their god constantly 3) By service, where he sees god in everybody and everything and devotes their life to selfless service to everybody else.
There are indeed similarities in Christianity to Hinduism, but major differences. Most Christians only occasionally attend mass or pray or give to charity - and think that is enough. It is more like fulfilling religious obligations in order to win their ticket to heaven. In Hinduism, one devotes their entire life to the practice, day in and day out, in order to develop spiritually.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51052]Well, again to repeat: there is no doctrine of self in the Abrahamic religions. Therefore there is no self-realization in these religion and no practices geared towards self-realization.
Adherents of Abrahamic religions are spiritually impoverished because they are not taught about the Self or taught any practices that lead to self-realization. There is no spirituality in these religions.
The end result is not going to be the same for an adherent practicing an Abrahamic religion and an adherent practicing a dharmic religion. The one practicing the abrahamic religion is going to get taught no spirituality at all and no personal practices for spiritual development(as the self is not recognised) Rather, they will be taught to occasionally pray to the Abrahamic god, occasionally attend mass at Church/mosque and to occasionally give to charity. The Hindu, on the other hand will be taught about spirituality, taught about spiritual development and given practices to do daily in order to develop spiritually to produce actual results.
I really don’t understand why anybody who is serious about their spiritual development would choose any religion other than Hinduism or Buddhism.
Abrahamic religions are false religions. Pure and simple.[/QUOTE]
SD, I keep saying this to you…the route to self realisation, enlightenment, whatever you might call it can be attained by participants of all different faiths and via vastly different practices. I don’t know how you can keep stating otherwise.???
I know that in Buddhism, techniques to improve a particular practice, are always welcome which also helps to show this.
I feel silly stating the obvious Surya…the reason Islam exists still is because followers, here and there have the spiritual results through practice…same for all…If you accept that we all have an inner Guru, we are all aided/guided regardless of which faith we belong to.
Kareng, try this thought experiment. Suppose tomorrow aliens from another planet arrive on Earth. These aliens are highly spiritually evolved and 1 billion years in advance of us in science, technology and spirituality. They have their own religion and they want to share their religion with us. Will you embrace their religion because it is more advanced or will you argue with them that Earth’s religions are just as good and we don’t need their religion?
Similarly, dear one, why argue for maintaining primitive desert religions against a more advanced scientific religion like Hinduism? Sure, it is possible for one to gain spiritual liberation from these primitive religions, but only if you do not practice these primitive religions as they are suppose to be practiced. They continue not because people get spirtual liberation from them, but because they have forcibly spread around the world through the sword and people have been forced to convert to them. Today, because we are living in a more secular culture, many people no longer practice them. In Europe especially Christianity has dwindled and Church attendance has fallen. Ironically, Church’s have to offer Yoga classes to keep alive.
No Catholic church is offering yoga classes to “keep alive.”
I don’t believe any church is.
They might, however, be offering yoga classes to stay fit, and lose weight, since they, as most in the west, see yoga as exercise. They might also be offering square dancing and aerobics–but not to “keep alive”–just as a fun community thing to do.
[QUOTE=thomas;51231]No Catholic church is offering yoga classes to “keep alive.”
I don’t believe any church is.
They might, however, be offering yoga classes to stay fit, and lose weight, since they, as most in the west, see yoga as exercise. They might also be offering square dancing and aerobics–but not to “keep alive”–just as a fun community thing to do.[/QUOTE]
Of course they see yoga as an exercise; thats why most of them are still woefully ignorant of India and Hinduism and have so many misconceptions about them, it isn’t even funny anymore.
[QUOTE=thomas;51231]No Catholic church is offering yoga classes to “keep alive.”
I don’t believe any church is.
They might, however, be offering yoga classes to stay fit, and lose weight, since they, as most in the west, see yoga as exercise. They might also be offering square dancing and aerobics–but not to “keep alive”–just as a fun community thing to do.[/QUOTE]
Thomas -stretching exercises do not qualify as yoga - not even as asanas. The word “asan” in sanskrit means seat. The sentence “asan grahan kare” for example means “Please take a seat”. It is not for nothing that the yogis postures have been given the name asan. For the end point of any asan is stability of that asan where the body remains motionless and at ease, with muscles relaxed. It is only when you have reached that stage that you have mastered the asan. This is in contrast to calisthenics or aerobics. Have fun doing your thing by all means, but please let us not call it yoga-asans.
I wasn’t the one who said that Christians are doing “yoga” because they are missing something in their religion. A Hindu said they are doing “yoga,” but what they are really doing is just asanas.
[QUOTE=thomas;51319]I wasn’t the one who said that Christians are doing “yoga” because they are missing something in their religion. A Hindu said they are doing “yoga,” but what they are really doing is just asanas.[/QUOTE]
Point taken, Thomas. But as I said even stretching and twisting postures do not qualify as asans unless they are practiced as part of ashtanga… with concentration and stability.
So , anyone, whether it be a Hindu or Christian or Turk or Martian, practicing stretching and twisting for bodily toning, though undoubtedly good for the body, is not practicing yoga asan.