But I’m not sure that I agree that yoga is for everyone and that we are supposed to be non-judgmental towards everyone.
Asuri, I appreciate the honesty here. Many thanks. I think it far more productive to be honest and upfront about our positions and convictions than to claim that it should be for all when we don’t really think it should be.
A relevant quote from the email I received today from Daily Om :
Before we allow ourselves to invest our energy into negative thought or action, we can remind ourselves that everything has a purpose. We can then consider that perhaps the actions of the other person or people may have had nothing to do with us. If we don?t take their actions personally, it may be easier to release them. Remembering that every interaction is an opportunity to make a better choice, we can take a deep breath before responding, allowing us just enough time to connect to center and make the choice to respond from our higher self. We can never know all the circumstances that may have led anyone to do anything. By not passing judgment on anyone, and instead sending hope for their healing, we may create something positive out of a difficult situation. We can then release it, since dwelling on it can cause an energetic drain in our system, causing us to really only hurt ourselves. When we can release our hold on negative events and interactions, we leave it in the hands of a wise universe to work out the best solution for all involved.
In every moment we have a chance to make a choice to bring light into the world. When we bless others with the gift of our positive energy, instead of letting circumstances affect us negatively, we bring a little peace to the world every day.
Hello Yonita,
To your original three questions I answer “no”, “no”, and “yes”.
We need only look to see that Yoga today has very little yoga within it. As my teacher says in the beginning of his book “Yoga is everywhere and no where at all”. It can be challenging to find a group of people actually living the practice. And I believe that is the germane point. Many can do trikonasana while few seem to embrace satya, asteya, svadhyaya, or ishwara pranidhana.
It would be unreasonable for us to expect those practitioners only doing asana to behave in ways that can only be facilitated by a more robust practice. It would be unreasonable for us to expect someone to make pertinent changes in their life without first knowing themselves. It would be unreasonable to expect one to have that knowing only by doing posture AND doing so without precision guidance.
There are certainly popular “yoga” practices today that bolster, inflate and aggrandize the ego of their followers (or practitioners). Again this is visually palpable and can be easily seen when looking around, free of bias, ignorance, or murky vision.
The other phrase that often comes to mind in these situations is “Don’t judge yoga by the people who practice it”. And yet this is exactly what we should be examining for the purposes of discernment (not judgement - which answers Asuri’s question about Sutra 33 in the first pada of Patanjali’s Sutras.). It is only by looking at the living that [I]results[/I] from the practice that we, as potential students, can find the right fit for ourselves.
It is, quite frankly, up to yoga teachers to reinsert yoga back in yoga. And while that can happen it requires two things. The first is a deeper level of sincerity on the part of the teacher such that our training encompases the whole of yoga and is ongoing AND second that students begin to comprehend the more robust offerings so that they are supported. While students continue to flock to 60 minutes of choreographed postures lead by a teacher who trained over a weekend…transformation is less likely.
You’re suggesting I’m lying about where I live because …?
Whoa, wait a minute, calm down please. I didn’t mean to suggest that you’re lying. I’m trained to be skeptical and I’m a little curious about who you are, that’s all. I apologize if I offended you. .
Hey Peeps,
Honestly, I have learned over the years that it’s better not to share casually with people or other yogis that I am a yogi, the extent of my training and practice, or that I teach yoga. Why? Because the day will come when I will be seen in a bar having a cocktail or a beer, eating a hot dog on the street, or heaven forbid, passing a joint at a party, and then those who need an excuse to discredit me and yoga, my teaching, to make me a hypocrite, will have it, and then from there will doubt most everything else I say and do, not because I am eating the hot dog or having a beer, but because I say I am a yogi.
There is a common misconception that a person who does yoga is in pursuit of perfection, and that if you don’t achieve perfection, you’re a failure. Since I am eating the hot dog…I must not know much, I must not be very good at it, I must be a failure? I am over it.
Don’t defend. Don’t resist. Just part company with those who are more concerned with your discipline than they are their own. They only want to pull you down.
peace,
siva
Siva I concur with that one , as I said I used to call myself a Buddhist and was happy to do so , the amount of times people that ,used to say" but your supposed to be a buddhist"
When I might express anger or behave unskillfully , in some manner . Of course Id often ask what they know about Buddhism and would be met with a blank blinking stare , and something along the lines that" youre supposed to be nice !"
Strangely as a yoga teacher and wannabe yogi I dont hear it so much ,I am a little older and wiser maybe ho ho, or maybe peoples expectations and projections onto yoga folk are not particuarly onerous. But I certainly dont go round telling people Im a student or teacher/sharer of yoga ,although Ive let the cat out the bag on this thread , I must feel safe on this board , although of course its free for all to read.
OM AH HUM
Fundamentalism is such an interesting topic, and an interesting word.
I might frame myself as an exceedingly non-traditional fundamentalist, so love this topic.
If folks will bear with me, I’ll ramble a bit about what this thread brings to mind.
First: Examination of the word…
I find it interesting that “Fundamentalist” is almost exclusively used as a pejorative, often equated with “Shallow, unyielding, dogmatic literalist”. Etymologically, “Fundamentalist” (like “Radical”) is one who believes in the importance of embodying the [I]fundamentals[/I] of whatever their particular belief or practice is. Of course, different folks will take different things to be at the core.
Second: Discrimination of its varied implications
I think more often than not use of the word “Fundamentalist” makes easy the sort of Verbal Delusion that Patanjali identifies as a “painful thoughtwave”.
Perhaps there are at least three different strands that get woven into the connotations around “Fundamentalism”:
Strand one (as above): Shallow, dogmatic, closed minded adherent of a particular path.
Strand two: A judgemental evangelical of their particular path
Strand three: Someone whose goal is a life infused with, informed by, and embodying their particular path, as they understand it.
These three strands may be present or absent in any combination, but it’s easy to over-assume information about all three from evidence of one or another. For example,
mistaking (3) for (2) - A meat eater being angry at a vegetarian for thinking they are superior… as evinced solely by their vegetarianism.
It’s possible to construct an example for mistaking any one of the above for the others, but I find it interesting that in my life I’ve found it most effective to presume the third if I think I see evidence of any of these forms of Fundamentalism. It lets me engage more deeply with the person and understand where they are coming from.
Third: Joyful Peace
It doesn’t seem to benefit me a whit when I get fussed about other people’s practice. Righteous indignation is an easy trap, and one of the most humorous (how easy it is to get righteously indignant over another’s righteous indignation).
That’s not to say it isn’t useful to try to discern what I seems to be effective or ineffective in another person’s practice. As InnerAthlete points out, initially it’s by observing the results of a given practice that we can discern its effects (not an easy process, but there it is).
Fourth: Awareness of individuality (yeah I know… these headings are a stretch)
Finally, it seems to me that anything one practices which is outside the statistical norm of one’s surroundings is going to get judged by some folks.
If you are seen practicing yoga, then eating a hot dog, some folks may work themselves into a lather about how outrageously hypocritical you are. (Person A thinks: “Outrageous… that person pretends to be spiritual while defiling themselves with that devil-tube”… Person B thinks: "How lame! That guy is eating a hot-dog just like a regular joe, when really he’s some sort of new age nut!)
Perhaps the best we can do is to try Strand three: strive continually to live the life that makes the most sense to us, not worry too much if it makes sense to others, and let our interactions with others serve as a mutual reality-check.
Anyways, I’ve rambled enough. A fun topic!
Fundamentalism
Huh!!!
Some religions (Orthodox Christians) use fasting in their practice (do not eat any animals products for certain period of time, like a month before the Eater). But in the Orthidox bible you can see a note : EXCLUDING ELDERLY, PREGNANT AND SICK PEOPLE.
So I I would it meat before the Easter would I be discharged from the church and anathematized?? Here the fundamentalism comes…
But what would happened if everyone will try to implement their own rules??? DISASSOCIATION…and we have more than a brunches Christian traditions, few tens of yoga traditions, … long story…
VEGETARIAN
I was vegetarian for a few years, and It worked just finr for me. I do eat meat (birds and fish) now and it works just fine. But i still feel better when I do not consume anumal products, but it is impossible in the winter time…
PLEASE!!! We live in the modern world, and
LET’S INCORPORATE contemporary SCIENCE, dietology, mother nature and Yoga. Just think abut ancient people… life in the cave …and how often were they lucky to get some meat??? a random bird or a rat:) ones or twice a week. and to get an a deer - they must be really tricky and smart, or it has to be a sick deer. Humans are vegetarian by their nature, but occasional
All I can say is how much I enjoy reading this thread! I’ve felt guilty for so many reasons thinking perhaps I’m not ready to enter the yoga world because of my thoughts, my diets and other reasons! But just as I am Catholic and I’ve had my failures with Lent and even going to Church…this makes me human! A human with faults…but learning! So thanks for showing how humans really are and that we are wonderful beings!
So…I’m at the zoo yesterday with my kids and we come upon the African pot bellied pigs, and all I can think of is…yum! What does that say about my yogic self? (In my defence, I had no breakfast).
Hello again,
Before I encourage anyone down a path of debauchery and have them believe they’ll be a good yogi someday, I might add, this doesn’t mean, as CityMonk posed rhetorically, that one can make their own rules about yoga and succeed. That simply gets us nowhere. You have to learn for yourself truly, through experience, by going into it deeply, what it means to practice, observe and abstain (the fundamentals), to sacrifice, to make a clear choice, and reconcile your actions according to your own condition and temperament. You can’t do that without having known both sides of yourself, and that’s what practice is all about…
For example, coming from a long bloodline of meat-eaters, I know what it means to go without eating the animal. For nearly six years, I was vegetarian (which was long enough for me), with the exception of eating two eggs on the first Sunday of each month (that’s roughly 24 eggs a year), to which I looked forward to and made a ritual of, for which I bowed and said grace, thanks (because that’s a lot of eggs). I truly knew, after four weeks of veggies and cheese, fruit salad and yogurt, what it meant to eat those little guys, both for me and for them (I think). In doing so, I built awareness, but that awareness no longer depends on my adherence to the practice. You see? When I eat a hot dog, I remember those two little yokes staring up at me, and I am still there. That does not happen without “knowing.”
So you have to have lived on both sides to know. No one can say for another for how long. You have to find out for yourself and we can support and help one another in getting there. I intend to be vegetarian again someday, and I will know what it means.
peace,
siva
I ran across a quote today that made me think of this thread on fundamentalism:
“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.” - Richard Feynman
To me, Yoga is a science. The experts (‘Scriptural Testimony’) are important, but ‘Direct Perception’ and ‘Inference’ are vital.
challenging the yogic fundamentalism to me makes no sense since it is individuals doing yoga. it would make more sense to challenge the ones in particular that you have issues with. Kind of like challenging Christianity, some good Christians, some bad ones.
brother Neil
That pretty much covers chanting for me, although some fundamentalists might disagre.
Altough I was wrong. It is only chanting if you do it having your soul aspire towards some higher ideal. Like love or light. Or you name it. And the wiggling aspect makes it classifiable under dancing, rather than chanting (singing). Unless you sing it, too. What do I know.
Damn, they got me again. Came in to share a little love, and here I am again, acting as the fool I am.
It’s human nature to judge, to compare, to want to make ourselves feel better than someone else due to our choice of attire, eating habits, yoga practice, whatever. It’s the ‘fight’ against the ego that yoga practitioners who study the philosphy behind yoga attempt to contain.
But why is someone who wears Prada and judges me for not being ‘chic’ enough any worse than a yogi who looks down upon the Prada-wearer for being shallow?
That being said, as someone who loves yoga, studies Buddhism (I have a long way to go) and is a vegetarian, I have to face the fact that I stated at first. Other people WILL judge me, if I say wear leather pants or get mad and curse or act vengeful. And at that point, as much as we don’t think we should be judged because we’re not perfect, we are doing a disservice to that which we say we care about (veggie, buddha, yoga) because we create a contradiction in the other person’s mind, we inspire doubt, and that does not encourage that person to consider our side.
I do agree with inner athlete…foundational teachings of yoga start with the teachers. I’ve been to so many classes that didnt even touch on philosophy. If one believes enough in yoga to make their career out of it, their duty, their calling should be to spread the benefits (beyond just the physical) to their students. It does the students a disservice not to have that introduction.
Oh yes!
Like all spiritual paths or religions , you have your people who become extreme or a least kind of weird about it.
Real healthy yoga is about balance, it’s also supposed to be gentle and non-attached (no pressuring or suffocating from others).
Hi, it was an interesting read! I fully understand the frustrations associated with going to a Yoga group and having beliefs and values forced upon you, regardless of what they might be. Please read my first ever “Amateur” website about my frustrations with an Indian Yogi/Guru, who I followed for almost 14 years: http://sites.google.com/site/falseguru
However, I noticed a complete lack of compassion for animals, it was never mentioned. To me, Yoga is about getting closer to “god”, and to me that most definitely means compassion and concern for other creatures, and trying to reduce their suffering.
Please don’t get angry about self-righteous ‘Yogis’, who look down on people who eat meat! Please just open your heart and try and understand how upset and terrified those poor animals are, when they end up in the slaughterhouse! Elisabeth
Well… real yogi-yogi should refrain from sexual intercourse…and much more and more… vegetarian is not the only one thing…
It’s really a revealing information…
I got so much knowledge after reading this thread…
I came here to leave my post but wow! after reading all these I can’t even think to do so…
Thanks for sharing this info with all us…
come up with such new topics and concepts in future…