Contributions of World Religions

Hehe, you put your hand in the hornets nest Nobody, expect to be stung a few times :wink:

I agree with Thomas there is no point of having a religion if you do not believe in the afterlife. After all why live a moral life, when you can live a life of pure indulgence, sex, intoxication, drugs, rock and roll. If this life was all there is and nothing after, I would do that. Moreover such a belief really devalues life, the idea of underming another or even harming another is justifiable, because after all we only have one life and it all ends at death, so why bother about what others think or what have suffered at your hands. There are plenty of people who think like this and they go onto become serial killers, rapists and criminals(not at all claiming that all such people are atheists lol)

We have a body…that’s where our five senses, mind and memory resides…agree so far?

You are right about the 5 senses being in the body, but not about mind and memory. The mind is not in the body otherwise I would be able to open your body up and see your mind. Now we know that even memory is not in the body, a current and leading scientist known as Karl Pribram has demonstrated that memory is non local, it is not in the brain or in the body. Look his research up and revaluate your beliefs :wink:

So, if the soul/spirit cannot feel pain or pleasure (because that’s an attribute of the body) if it cannot remember anything (because that’s an attribute of the mind)…how can it suffer in hell or enjoy heaven?

It is the mind that feels pleasure and pain and it is the mind that transmigrates. The Atman is very different to the Jivatman(which is the mind) You are the mind and you will certainly experience the heavens and hells. If you doubt me, take some LSD :stuck_out_tongue: You will remember every detail of your trip.

I have also read stories about those who have claimed to have had past-lives

We are not talking about just random accounts of past life memories here, but significant scientific research into past life memories spanning continents with over 2000 subjects. How do you explain an evangalist caucasian Christian in America remembering their past life(against their beliefs) as a farmer in India, giving details of what village they lived in, the house, the family, the contents of the safe and very private details only known by the person they claimed to be in the past life. In addition, having a physical trauma in the part of the body where the person in the previous life had taken it. There are hundreds of cases just like the one I described.

Again investigate yourself and revise your beliefs accordingly :wink:

[QUOTE=thomas;44466]I doubt that this would prove anything to you, and that’s not my purpose. But if you feel like skimming through this, you might see that the Christian has valid historical reasons to believe in Christ and his resurrection–that it’s not blind faith–that at least there is some historical evidence and reasoning behind the belief.

http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/resurrection-evidence.htm[/QUOTE]

If you can explain to me how a disembodied spirit can be a self-conscious entity and how it actually manages to do this, to be able to feel emotions and recall all of its past experiences of those bodies it once inhabited…I may be a bit more receptive here…ya know?

You are right about the 5 senses being in the body, but not about mind and memory. The mind is not in the body otherwise I would be able to open your body up and see your mind. Now we know that even memory is not in the body, a current and leading scientist known as Karl Pribram has demonstrated that memory is non local, it is not in the brain or in the body. Look his research up and revaluate your beliefs

Everything I have been taught to believe has been based on the notion that the brain and the soul are separate things…

Now you are telling me that the soul has its own brain? confused

What does the soul look like then? does it have neurons? a CNS? how can memories get encoded into it? If it’s like a little ‘alien’ living inside us, how come we cannot realise the existance of it without dropping everything that this ‘alien’ also possesses? yada…

You are not really quoting what I said. I never said the soul had a brain lol

The soul(Jivatman) can take on any form. That is because the soul is formless. Like on a drug-induced trip you can look like yourself, you can look younger, older, or like somebody else, like an angel or a master. All depending on your subconscious mind.

Memories are not encoded in neurons in the first place. I just told you, it now known memory is non-local - not in any location in the brain. A memory is an experience that the soul experiences and it gets lodges into its unconscious mind(chitta) All experiences you have are lodged in there. This is why you cannot trully forget anything(there are people who experience amnesia, but amnesia is reversible and not total) You can remember still in vivid detail if you wanted to what you experienced when you were 6 year old in full technicolour :smiley: The soul is like the elephant, it never forgets anything.

The soul not only remembers every bit of detail in this lifetime, including the info you yourself do not remember getting. It remembers every bit of detail in countless other lifetimes. Naturally, those memories are even hidden deeper into your unconscious mind.

Yogiraj Siddnath once said humerously, “The problem with the memories your soul records is that it is not a tape, but a damn dvd in 3D” I will add to his quote, it is damn HD hologram. Not only will you remember this so vividly when you review your life, you will review everything your unconscious mind picked up as well. You will not be able to hide on the day of judgement :wink:

How can people with diseases like alzheimers…and their brains are getting destroyed lose their memory then?

Does the soul of alzheimers patients remember everything?

They do not lose their memory, rather they stop remembering. Like I said, no amnesia is total and irreversible. You might not remember your past memories for a while, but after a while they may spontaneously arise and start to trigger a chain of other memories.

We do not have to go as far as a patient with Alzheimers, just look at your own self. There are tons of memories you do not remember. Does that mean they are erasesd? Heck no, you simply do not remember. Some of these will spotaneously arise again triggered by some stimuli, some of them will rise in deep meditation or therapy. You would be aghast if you found out some of the deep-seated memories you are storing in yourself, and how all this time they have been profoundly affecting your life.

If you delete a file from your hardrive it may appear that you have deleted it. In actual fact all you done is remove the pointer in your operating system to the file. The file is there and in fact nothing you ever delete gets deleted, everything on your computer can be retrived by just going to hardrive. Likewise, the brain as it ages loses its pointers to the memories stored in the mind, and this is why you find it very difficult to remember stuff as you age.(It is a sign of aging) As you reach physical death in old age, this condition gets even more worse, where you cannot even remember what happened a few minutes ago and you may even not recognise your loved ones on your death bed(my aunty was like that) Obviously then, in your next life because you have an entirely new brain there are no pointers at all to the memories of the previous self, so you do not remember your past life. In some rare cases, the impressions are so deep from the previous life, that they surface outside of your control. This is known as spotaneous recall.

I go with Hinduism…lol

No bias honestly, not just because i like Surya DEVA

Namaskar Surya…:cool:

Surya for King…lol

Remember past lives is not a good thing by the way and I would not recommend it unless you can be objective about it. It is hard enough dealing with one life, but to remember several will overcomplicate your life. There is a blessing in not remembering our past lives. If you remembered back a time where you were some kind of rapist or killer it is going to be very hard to take that on board and live your current life. You will awaken those areas of the unconscious mind that contains those horrible rapist and killer thoughts and your life could turn into hell.

Namaskar Core :smiley:

Good to see you’re still taking shots at people…erm i mean intellectually i don’t mean ahimsa-wise…aham…lol:p

Course i’m kidding here…looks like light-hearted banter amongst fellow yogic minds…

Good to see you don’t take yourself too seriously…

As long as the sun is there in space, the light will always shine on earth illuminating the darkness. In my presence bad philosophies, fallacious arguments and flawed ideologies cannot exist :smiley:

You have this special ability Surya to bring every thing you shine on out of the darkness and into the light…it is much applauded.Unshakeable.You must have a steely meditation or yogic sadhana.

Yes indeed, logically and scientifically proven, yip i can see that in your prolific discursive output here.

Never a cloudy day around you, i’ve noticed that.You have a fiery presence about you.

Can’t just snub out the Sun can you not unless you’re something akin to the powers of God?

Have you been doing your Surya Namskara i hope regularly…

Salute the Truth, indeed:cool:

I am a sun worshipper. The sun represents knowledge and enlightenment and I worship knowledge and enlightenment.

Aum Bhu Bhuva Swaha
Tat Savitur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi
Dhiyo yo na prochodayat
Aum

I was probably a full fledged Aryan in my past life lol

At least someone’s still got a sense of humour around here… I was having some doubts there…

Yes there is a good practice involving the reciting of mantra with the full surya namaskar…

Yes i worship these things too… we’ve been stuck in the dark ages for long enough, time is ripe…

The way I believe it, is to achieve a ‘peak state’ in this lifetime, help others and spread the love and joy and make the planet a better place for future generations to enjoy.

I just find it funny how Christians don’t believe in ghosts unless they are ‘Holy ones’…

Anyway, because you are being nice to me…I shall explain why I don’t believe in a life after death or the ‘hereafter’ because it does not make any logical/rational sense to my me…

We have a body…that’s where our five senses, mind and memory resides…agree so far?

Then, we have a soul/spirit which is apart from that…it cannot be realised by the use of the 5 senses…it cannot be thought about by the mind…

So, if the soul/spirit cannot feel pain or pleasure (because that’s an attribute of the body) if it cannot remember anything (because that’s an attribute of the mind)…how can it suffer in hell or enjoy heaven?

What’s the point of it passing from one body to the next without any conscious awareness of its past and purpose?

I have also read stories about those who have claimed to have had past-lives…about people that have claimed to have been abducted by UFO’s…about those who have seen ghosts and whatnot…nice stories, but none can be proven beyond reasonable doubt (at least to me anyway).

There have been those who have claimed to have experienced NDE’s…my mother was clinically dead for 2 minutes and what did she see? absolutely nothing!

I admit that I struggle with trying to understand what a soul is, and what it does, since so much seems to be able to be explained by the brain.

And I do have times when I have doubts.

But I also would have doubts that there could be a universe without a Creator. And if there is a Creator, he would have to be infinite and immaterial, so if an immaterial creator can know and love, so could a soul.

Perhaps the brain is the interface to the material world.

A brain that forgets might block the soul from remembering while it is connected to a faulty body, but when the body and all its weaknesses and corruptions is dropped, perhaps the soul awakens.

From a Christian standpoint, because of original sin, we inhabit “corruptible” bodies and we are weak of will and intellect. Perhaps these bodies bring us down into a darkness of sorts, incapable of seeing a bigger spiritual world.

I’m just making guesses. I really don’t know. I don’t know how a disembodied soul would know anything, but I believe it does, and I believe it would know more after death. (Note that in Christian theology, the soul is not meant to be disembodied forever, and would eventually receive a new and perfect body, free of all the previous limitations and defects).

Thank you for the explanations guys.

I particularly like that ‘hard drive’ analogy because I can fully understand and relate to that…

So, The Soul is like a PC’s ‘Registry’ then? It has nothing to do with all the day to day shit, but unless you do a regedit and go into those blasted hotkeys, everything will just stay there until the next reformat?

…some stupid viruses will also get stuck in the Registry despite being reformatted though and the PC sorta ‘remembers’ those. lol

Anyway, even though I now understand it, I was brought up as a skeptic and non-believer…it’s more a case that nobody has actually ‘died and lived to tell about it’…apart from some NDE’s which can be very plausibly explained by an oxygen deficiency to the brain combined with a triggered birth experience memory (i.e the light at the end of the tunnel & stuff)…

I guess what it all boils down to is a matter of [I]Faith[/I]. I have absolutely no ‘Faith Cells’ in my whole body.

I believe in a ‘Higher Power’ (due to my own logical conclusions)…I believe in doing the ‘right thing’ to make me a better class of human being than others…

…and that, my dear friends, is where it ends. I am not ‘religious’ one little bit. I have tried being so, but I was only being hypocritical to my own inner nature.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;44484]I am a sun worshipper. The sun represents knowledge and enlightenment and I worship knowledge and enlightenment.

Aum Bhu Bhuva Swaha
Tat Savitur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi
Dhiyo yo na prochodayat
Aum

I was probably a full fledged Aryan in my past life lol[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah…next…

[I]Aasato maa sad gamayah
Tamaso maa jyotir gamayah
Mrityor maa amritam gamayah

Poornamadah Poornamidam
Poornaat Poornam Udachyate
Poornasya Poornamaadayah
Poornameva Vashishyate

Aum Shanti Shanti Shantihi[/I]

Oh geez…now you have got [I]me [/I] doing it. LOL

sarva-ṣruti ṣiro-ratna
virājita padāmbujaḥ
vedāntambuja Suryo yaḥ
tasmai Shrī Gurave Namaḥ

So, The Soul is like a PC’s ‘Registry’ then? It has nothing to do with all the day to day shit, but unless you do a regedit and go into those blasted hotkeys, everything will just stay there until the next reformat?

The data never get erased. Even if you format your hardrive the data still remains there. None of your memories will get erased, including the horrible past life rapist and killer ones(as an example, not saying you were a rapist and killer in your past life :p) but your indentification with these memories will get weakened. You will be able to look at these memories like any other memories - objectively - without reacting emotionally.

…some stupid viruses will also get stuck in the Registry despite being reformatted though and the PC sorta ‘remembers’ those. lol

Yep, very deep seated habit patterns are like viruses. Like I said, you would be aghast to find what lurks there in your soul’s hardrive

Anyway, even though I now understand it, I was brought up as a skeptic and non-believer…it’s more a case that nobody has actually ‘died and lived to tell about it’…apart from some NDE’s which can be very plausibly explained by an oxygen deficiency to the brain combined with a triggered birth experience memory (i.e the light at the end of the tunnel & stuff)…

You might be able to explain some cases like this, but not at all. What about cases where the person undergoing the NDE is in a operating theatre lying in bed, but then describes in detail everything that is happening around them and in adjacent rooms from another vantage point than the one they are in. Again do some research into NDE and you will revaulate your beliefs.

I guess what it all boils down to is a matter of [I]Faith[/I]. I have absolutely no ‘Faith Cells’ in my whole body.

I have no faith cells in my body either. I only accept either direct proof or impeccable arguments that demonstrate their conclusions without doubt. Again to say people who accept these things are using faith, is another common atheist strawman and adhominem. Again it maybe the case that some people accept things like soul/afterlife/reincarnation on faith alone, but others do so because of strong rational arguments, others because they have direct proof either through their own past life memories or somebody trustworthy, and others may begin with believing none of it, and get converted to it because of their research.

Robert Monroe, a pioneer in OBE research, was an engineer by profession and did not even begin with OBE research. His research project was to work with brain entrainment technology in its application to learning faster. It was found that binaural beats could induce alpha, beta, delta and theta waves. So he listened to this stuff regularly - one day he got scared, when he noticed - he was not in his body anymore - but on the damn celing! He was looking down on his body lying next to his wife. He thought he had died and got really afraid. Fortunately, he would always snap back to his physical body. After repeated instances of leaving his body, he came to accept that the binaural beats faciliated OBE’s. This is how his OBE research started. It was not planned, it was an accident - most scientific discoveries are.

Since Monoroe there have been hundreds of OBE researchers who have verified all the states Monroe has described. Focus 10 mind awake/body asleep and Focus 15 loss spatial awareness and vibrations and Focus 20 - entering into the mental plane(heavens, hells, and everything in between)

My friend, whose never had an OBE experience in his entire life, recently downloaded some of the Hemi-synch tracks produced by the Monroe institute, and now he has reported his first OBE experience. I had my first OBE experience after starting meditation which happened spontaneously. I had many after as well.

There are many scientific studies done on OBE in very controlled conditions not only have been able to verify that projection is taking place and something is indeed leaving the body, they have been able to measure that something with sensors in the remote target location with gauges. It also been found that electrical grids can trap the astral body(Do not mistake the astral body/subtle body with the Atman, they are completely different)

This is scientific fact, not theory. Its as factual as gravity and atoms. You too can have an OBE experience and verify it all for yourself. You need to dedicate a month at least to regular OBE practice, and you will project at some point. Many of my friends have succeeded, so I don’t see why you shouldn’t.

Similarly, Ian Stevenson began his research into reincarnation when he heard about people who could remember their past lives in India. He was intriguied and skeptical. So he went there and started scientifically investigating how valid these claims were. He found that the claims appeared valid. He then investigated over the course of many years past life memories not just in India, but in every continent in the world and found that they all had the same objective characteristics. He has written a brilliant research study on this, “20 cases suggestive of reincarnation” Check it out and review your beliefs.

Since Stenvenson, there have been loads of researchers into reincarnation and a strong body of evidence now exists showing reincarnation is a fact of nature. Heck, murder cases have been solved by interviewing the person who was the murder victim in the past life :smiley:

It is absolutely paramount that we accept the soul, other planes, reincarnation and karma into a world religion. Because they are real teachings.
This is where Hinduism-Buddhism-Jainism — Dharmic religons — make their contributions for they have recorded the best research, analysis and given the best explanations for these facts of nature, which no other religion has. Every other religion is hopelessly confused.

The new world religion will be a religion that will draw from the best of each religion has to offer. Like I said we cannot draw tolerance from Islam or rationality from Christianity. But we can draw from Islam how it can fully integrate you into religion and from Christianity its devotion, compassion and charity to the less fortunate.