As for TM meditation. My interest in TM started in the early 90’s, when I first heard about it from my French teacher. I was most fascinated by her telling me that it caused her friend to levitate. I think what she really meant was that she hopped off the ground in their Siddhi flying program. I was too young then to get involved in TM. But I am glad I didn’t because later I realised it was a scam. You pay the TM organization ?1000+ to get initiated with a mantra and a meditation technique that is as good as daydreaming. You can get a mantra for free and daydreaming does not cost a thing. In the first year of university I met somebody who was born into the TM tradition. He meditated everyday and had been doing it for 20+ years, but I noted that he had nothing to show for it. I asked him what his meditation entailed and he told me it was simply to sit for 30 min everyday. I then realised he had not been meditating at all, but was daydreaming for 30 min a day. When I told him this, he became very hostile to me. I explained to him that meditation requires concentrated focus on a single object as the Yoga sutras stipulate, not to allow your mind to wander, but he contested my definition saying it was subjective and authoratarian. I of course maintained what he was doing was not meditation. We fell out.
The experiences with the Osho group have been limited. I have attended about 5 meetings of the Osho group. Depending on which day you attend, you do a different meditation, but which in reality are all the same. There is the love meditation, the Kundalini shaking meditation and chakra balancing meditation - they all involve raving to music. Basically it is a glorified rave. It is little more than an excuse for people to meet up to rave and touch each other. Fortunately, when I attended the meets the most touching people did was hug each other, but I know more than that went on at the main Osho ashram. One time a person attended who taught sex tantra. He gave me a lift back home, and I asked him a probing question whether people attended his classes simply to exploit others for their own sexual gratification - he responded even if they did, it was all good in the end.
The people who attended the Osho group all seemed to enjoy chaos. They looked down on order, science, rationality, reason. For them life was just one big orgy.
[B]Surya Deva[/B],
What is incredible regarding OSHO is that his followers must be completely in denial about exactly what he did, believed and advocated in his lifetime; they must absolve him of any responsibility (as some feebly attempt with leaders of other ‘cults’) i.e. he was unaware of what others were doing in his organisation and did not order those actions. It is undeniable the evidence overwhelming that of course he knew basically everything that was going on, including illegal practices and actions - such as poisoning water supplies, etc. If people think his writings were great or he was a deep mystical philosopher (I personally think his writings are awful a hodge podge of ideas designed to lure people into believing he had all the answers but that’s just my view) that’s fine, but you cannot separate the man and his actions from his teachings i.e. akin to saying it’s okay to be a money making charlatan (with a fleet of around 100 Rolls Royces paid for from folowers funds of course), and advocate bizaree teachings and practices, and to condone illegal activities, as long as you have a strong message and you writings are good.
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh was completely repackaged and remarketed after his passing to still try lure in the gullible and with the increasing New Age popularity and interest in spiritual matters. Gone were the bright coloured orange robes, name change to just Osho, etc , etc. Just like Divine Light Mission change to becoming Elan Vital - repackaged and marketed to appeal more to Westerners - less Indian mysticism, business suit for Guru Maharaj Ji rather than Eastern Indian outfit, etc, etc. The film ‘Fear Is The Master’ about Rajneesh is worth seeking out, not sure if online anywhere in its entirety.
Regarding Brahma Kumaris I have attended several meetings and a retreat with them in the past, what is incredible is what little there is in the movement, basically one technique of meditation usually done with eyes open staring at an image of a dot (or dot surrounded by light or rays picture) and that’s it. This is done for long periods of time. The teachings like you said of course their founder had the complete truth, whilst Jesus, Buddha etc were below him in spiritual standing and knew less, etc. Beliefs like encouraging people to be celibate can of course bring huge problems to relationships & marriages if one person is not in Brahma Kumaris whilst the other gets immersed in it. Rather selfish and ridiculous too to teach celibacy thus relying fully on people outside the organisation to bring children into the world and new members for them in the future. They claim what they do is Raja Yoga and use the term a lot in promoting it’s activities and in writings, yet it has little relation to Raja Yoga as practiced by others.
[B][I]Well worth looking at [/I][/B]: http://bkwsuwatch.com/ [B][I]especially as Brahma Kumaris like movements such as SRF Self Realization Fellowship are generally considered by many to be completely harmless and definitely not Cults. [/I][/B]
[B]The Scales [/B]
That is your perception but one is which not shared by everyone else, and to many SRF is little different in its nature as a cult than Sahaja Yoga etc. In SRF there is a line of gurus to be followed, there is the mystical immortal Mahavatar Babaji, Kriya Yoga is meant to the ultimate form of Yoga, etc whilst it claims you can believe in it and follow any religion (Scientology claims the same) truth is it has specific beliefs and practices not compatible with other faiths, and if you become fully immersed in it you will probably leave any other faith behind.
http://yoganandarediscovered.org/
[B]Amir Mourad[/B]
The examples you cite are blatantly false. Go to a Catholic church you can leave anytime, you need not believe everything taught, and unlikely all your family and friends will disown you should you choose to leave. All teachings are open upfront you can ask anything, read up on anything, no hidden doctrines though some granted like Trinity, Transubstantiation, etc may take explanation to fully comprehend. Compared to Sahaja Yoga where you are gradually indoctrinated at first it just seems like harmless yoga movement but over time they introduce you to the more bizarre teachings once they have you hooked and interested, and you are taught if you leave the movement great calmatity or evil will befall you, you must have complete unquestioning faith in Shree Mataji and her teachings, you will start to do rituals to ward off evil and demons, there are arranged marriages that take place also, if you leave you will most definitely be shunned by friends remaining in the movement (very strong psychological hold), you will believe Shree Mataji is greater than any other spiritual figure [I](here is Mataji putting down various spiritual figures)[/I] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXn930qZCdc).
Shree Mataji the public image and ‘front’ : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R0bncg6C_w&feature=related
[QUOTE=MindNinja;56075]
[B]The Scales [/B]
That is your perception but one is which not shared by everyone else, and to many SRF is little different in its nature as a cult than Sahaja Yoga etc. In SRF there is a line of gurus to be followed, there is the mystical immortal Mahavatar Babaji, Kriya Yoga is meant to the ultimate form of Yoga, etc whilst it claims you can believe in it and follow any religion (Scientology claims the same) truth is it has specific beliefs and practices not compatible with other faiths, and if you become fully immersed in it you will probably leave any other faith behind.
http://yoganandarediscovered.org/
[/QUOTE]
Nice pink and purple web site you got linked up there in your second post. Your first link was written by an obvious christian fundamentalist and the second was written by someone who with an interest in some law suit - which it practically says - right there in the first couple of paragraphs of the pink and purple.
You do a disservice by lumping SRF in with the others. I think if you had half a clue you would know this.
This appears like a public hearing of alleged wrong-doers already found guilty before the trial. One humble question, who among the judges have walked any of these walks? It takes only a keyboard to opine, but a life-time effort to understand.
The taproot of mystical experience lies in consciousness, and consciousness in different individuals is not the same. The one great lesson which this experience brings home to us is that the very fundamental constituent of personality, namely consciousness, varies in different people. When we say that a certain man is intelligent and another dull or that one is more aesthetic or sensitive than the other, we often invest him with a conscious personality like our own, but with the difference that he is more or less intelligent, or more or less sensitive. This is a mistake based on a fundamentally erroneous way of thinking; for as no two faces and no two streams of thought are exactly alike, so no two units or pools of consciousness, representing the personality or the outer area of manifestation of the soul, are alike in any two persons, including even identical twins. Each unit of human consciousness has, as it were, its own volume, its own area, its own depth, its own power of perception, grasp, and penetration. It has its own memory, scale of passion and intensity of desire. Each personality has a distinct stamp, a peculiar pattern clearly embossed on it, to which it conforms more or less throughout its life. In the genuine mystical state this everyday personality that has its roots in the deepest strata of the human mind evaporates for a time, opening its otherwise strongly enclosed precincts to the influx of a torrent that floods the now empty enclosure with a new kind of life, a new pattern of consciousness, and, overflow-ing the former narrow boundaries, causes mixed feelings of won-derment, exaltation, bliss, awe, and a sense of all-pervasiveness, infinity, and sovereignty in the now eclipsed original personality, a thin shadow of which still lurks in the mind. If this shadow did not survive it would be impossible for the normal consciousness to have any recollection of the extraordinary experience. One would come back from it, like a man awakening from dreamless slumber, without the recollection of any impression received in that state. Even in nirvikalpa samadhi (contemplation) an attenuated shadow of the normal self continues to function and brings back the memory of the stupendous vision seen. Quivering and throbbing, the overshadowed self, shrunken almost to a pinpoint before the immeasurable Presence that now encompasses it, has still the faculty left to make a comparison between itself and the veritable Universe of Being, unlike anything known to it on the earth, absolutely beyond description, with which for a breathless interval and with unutterable rapture it finds itself in complete identity, like a drop of water merged with the ocean to which it belongs.
The description of the Cosmic Being contained in the eleventh chapter of the Bhagavad-Gita shows overawed Arjuna (the human element still left even in the highest form of mystical contempla-tion) in a state of utter surrender, confronted by the infinite, indescribable Universe of Life, revealed to him in a divine vision through the grace of Krishna (the Cosmic Self). If mystical union is a genuine experience of the human mind, and not merely a delusive state, there must be a concordance in the essentials of the fully blossomed state experienced by the visionaries of all religions, irrespective of the period or the culture to which they belong. The surest way to cast a doubt on the validity of the phenomenon, and thereby on the fundamental basis of religion itself, is for the adherents of one faith to belittle or to question the genuineness of the experience described by the contemplatives of another religion or cult.
[QUOTE=MindNinja;56061]What are peoples opinions of Yoga groups that are considered Cults by Cult awareness groups, etc?
[B][U]Here are few such groups :[/U][/B]
Brahma Kumaris (Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University / Raja Yoga)
Sahaja Yoga
Siddha Yoga (Muktananda / Gurumayi Chidvilasananda)
Self Realization Fellowship (Paramahansa Yogananda)
Himalayan Institute of Yoga Science & Philosophy
Transcendental Meditation (based on Raja Yoga)
Elan Vital (Divine Light Mission)
Dahn Yoga
etc etc
[/QUOTE]
How about including “Art of Living” In this thread? Any comments and personal experiences?
Is this also a cult? take a look at the following link.
They all sound like MAYA in different colors with Saguna Brahman (I may be wrong) 
Namaste Mindninja,
It is important to expose cults, but it also important not to swing too much the other way to anti-cult organizations. Every big organization has enemies, just as every big personality does. There are several of these anti-cult and anti guru organizations set up by disgruntled ex-members, and in many cases you will find they spread disinformation, exaggerate faults etc. If you get involved in a spiritual cult, you are getting involved in a community of people who share similar beliefs and are accepting a heirarchy. If you agree with those beliefs and the heirarchy, then that is fine. You have chosen to be a part of it. However, if you do not agree, then that is fine as well, do not be a part of it. But often it is the case that people join but do not really believe in their beliefs, and later face problems. For example on the anti-BK site you linked, one of the sisters ends up falling in love with a male member, but she knew from the start that celibacy is one of their tenets. She ends up commiting suicide from the censure she gets. But of course she was going to get censure. Did she expect them to change their tenets?
A lot of these anti and disgruntled ex members would not be so, if they just did some research before they got involved in a spiritual cult. I have never had a problem with cults. When I wanted to leave, I left with no problems. I left the BK’s because they were shallow and had nothing to keep me there, I left SY because I realised the founder was a fraud and their techniques pseudoscience. I never got too involved, because I did my research early on, realised I did not agree with them, and left. I left the Osho group because I realised they were just a bunch of hippies.
Regarding Osho,
My exposure to Osho has made Osho an unlikely teacher in my life. I was not expecting to becoming so taken in by him. What Osho teaches is pure spiritual anarchy, but it really strikes a chord with the rebellious side inside you. I grew up as a Sikh, and I got really fed up of the moral preaching at me from the priests at the Sikh temple and from my family, when realising that they themselves did not practice what they preach. I met many priests who were meat eaters, drank alcohol and were simply horrible people. I got fed up of this mantra of god, god god. Osho for me, was a release from the false morality of religion. I became completely liberated when I realised I could do whatever I want and I did not need the concept of god. I need to free myself from all the conditioning I had received in life of being moral, and I went all out drinking, having sex, being arrogant, throwing morality out of the picture and doing whatever I bloody wanted - I became one of the most debauched people I know. I even surpassed my friend who also became an unlikely guru to me(also debauched, but harmless) Of course, I never harmed anybody else - if there is anybody I have harmed by following Osho’s teachings - is myself. Although I am fine at the moment, I have probably really severely damaged my energy and physical body. The amount of sex I have had with random strangers, in the seediest of places and alcohol I have consumed averaging 20-30 pints a weekend + dozens of mixers, could probably set records. At one point I drank everyday for 2 months and would come home at 7am in the morning.
I recently fell severely ill: First I was hit by shingles, which is a very rare immunity disease. But fortunately, it only lasted a few days and the pain it is suppose to leave did not happen. Recently, I was hit by tonsilitits(another rare immunity problem for adults) then chest infection, then fever that remained for weeks, and then severe dehydration. I only recovered this week. I have not touched any alcohol for a whole month, and have now quit.
I have paid a heavy price in following the left hand path of Osho, and I will probably be paying it back for the rest of my life. The damage I have done to my energy body, and to lesser extent physical body is invisible - but I know it is there. But do I regret it? Not at all. I freed myself from false morality. I am now in a position to go onto the right hand path. I may have destroyed my chances in getting enlightenment in this life, but I have cleared the way for my future lives. So Osho has served a very important role as a guru in my life - to break me so I can reinvent myself.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56128]Regarding Osho,
My exposure to Osho has made Osho an unlikely teacher in my life. I was not expecting to becoming so taken in by him. What Osho teaches is pure spiritual anarchy, but it really strikes a chord with the rebellious side inside you. I grew up as a Sikh, and I got really fed up of the moral preaching at me from the priests at the Sikh temple and from my family, when realising that they themselves did not practice what they preach. I met many priests who were meat eaters, drank alcohol and were simply horrible people. I got fed up of this mantra of god, god god. Osho for me, was a release from the false morality of religion. I became completely liberated when I realised I could do whatever I want and I did not need the concept of god. I need to free myself from all the conditioning I had received in life of being moral, and I went all out drinking, having sex, being arrogant, throwing morality out of the picture and doing whatever I bloody wanted - I became one of the most debauched people I know. I even surpassed my friend who also became an unlikely guru to me(also debauched, but harmless) Of course, I never harmed anybody else - if there is anybody I have harmed by following Osho’s teachings - is myself. Although I am fine at the moment, I have probably really severely damaged my energy and physical body. The amount of sex I have had with random strangers, in the seediest of places and alcohol I have consumed averaging 20-30 pints a weekend + dozens of mixers, could probably set records. At one point I drank everyday for 2 months and would come home at 7am in the morning.
I recently fell severely ill: First I was hit by shingles, which is a very rare immunity disease. But fortunately, it only lasted a few days and the pain it is suppose to leave did not happen. Recently, I was hit by tonsilitits(another rare immunity problem for adults) then chest infection, then fever that remained for weeks, and then severe dehydration. I only recovered this week. I have not touched any alcohol for a whole month, and have now quit.
I have paid a heavy price in following the left hand path of Osho, and I will probably be paying it back for the rest of my life. The damage I have done to my energy body, and to lesser extent physical body is invisible - but I know it is there. But do I regret it? Not at all. I freed myself from false morality. I am now in a position to go onto the right hand path. I may have destroyed my chances in getting enlightenment in this life, but I have cleared the way for my future lives. So Osho has served a very important role as a guru in my life - to break me so I can reinvent myself.[/QUOTE]
you have done no such damage to the energy body. Wouldn’t be much of an energy body if it could be damaged so easily.
The physical body has very good powers of recuperation if working properly.
No chances have been destroyed.
Osho provided you with self knowledge. This is self study.
[QUOTE=The Scales;56132]you have done no such damage to the energy body. Wouldn’t be much of an energy body if it could be damaged so easily.
The physical body has very good powers of recuperation if working properly.
No chances have been destroyed.
Osho provided you with self knowledge. This is self study.[/QUOTE]
Let us hope you are right. I will soon be on the right hand path.
Surya Deva,
Of course well aware anti-cult people especially disgruntled ex-members have an axe to grind so to speak. However with many Cults not just Eastern ones such as Scientology, Moonies (Unification Church), The Family (Children of God), etc - the evidence is so overwhelming it is undeniable to anyone with an open mind, and easlily provable using official documents and sources from the movement.
There are many hallmarks or key factors of Cults. One is hiding lot of the knowledge what they really believe to new members then slowly indoctrinating them - this is done in Scientology, Sahaja Yoga, Moonies, etc. They most certainly do not put all their cards on the table to potential or new recruits because many would run a mile (e.g. if they new about Xenu the galatic warlord and alien spirits Thetans causing all human afflictions, or L. Ron Hubbard’s blatant lies about his achievements and personal history, etc). With Sahaja Yoga this is certainly the case too, you go along and it seems like a harmless Yoga group they give you few basic exercises; they don’t mention how they really regard Shri Mataji, demon banishing rituals, arranged marriages, etc.
Another hallmark of a Cult is ‘love bombing’ as a new member you are showered with attention everybody talks to you and tries to make you feel as welcome as possible, they are like your new best friends. Sahaja Yoga, Moonies, Scientology , etc are notoroius for it.
Future Financial commitment is also kept secret from new recruits, Scientology will never tell a new member to get to the top level requires hundreds of thousands of pounds or dollars. They gradually reel you in and ‘hook’ you, and get you to sign up for more courses. They will also never tell you initially of nice little clause in contract you will sign in future - as a Scientology member you get all courses at huge discounts but should you ever leave, you have to payback them all in the full amounts, thus they can bankrupt you and tremendous psychological ploy so you don’t leave easily. If you do leave you basically lose all friends and family still in Scientology and are effectively cut off.
TM - Transcendental Meditation holds back to new or potential recruits on the huge costs, and certainly does not reveal you learn Mantra and prayers as it claims initially to be completely non religious and compatible with any existing faith out there. TM has strong marketing, hyping what is basic meditation nothing particularly unique or special as something amazing that can transform the world.
As mentioned earlier some would say SRF Self Realization Fellowship, Brahma Kumaris, etc are not cults and totally harmless, whilst Sahaja Yoga or the Moonies would be an example of cults. Is there really that much distinction between them?
Yes, we should definitely expose dangerous cults. I have a friend who was involved in Scientology, and he told me how bad they were. First of all they charge very expensive prices for their course, they give you discounts on later ones. He said he had appreciated the techniques he had learned. But I said to him, those techniques were not invented by Scientology(such as sweating it out in the sauna) and he could have learned everything for free if he did a bit of research. He told me how controlling scientology was, how they would personally send envoys to your house to check up on you if you missed a session.
In my opinion Sahaja Yoga and Osho group qualify as dangerous cults, but BK’s I don’t think are dangerous. Gullible and naive indeed, but I have never seen any evidence of foul play. They are also endorsed by the UN and many other reputable organizations.
I barely know nothing about SRF. I understand that it was founded by Yogananda, but now that he has passed away, I understand SRF split up into many splinter groups. There is a web site started by an ex member online who reveals all the Kriya yoga techniques, he argued that when you learn them in the organization you literally have to wait for years and he did not agree with the secrecy. The techniques he has published in his ebooks and they are very powerful techniques. I did them for a while, before abandoning meditation altogether and going the Osho path.
TM is a scam. I would not say dangerous - but definitely a scam.
I have also been involved in Anandamarga Yoga for about a year. I think next to the BK,s this was my longest time in a cult. Anandamarga Yoga operates in various universities teaching Yoga and meditation. When I discovered my local university had a Yoga and meditation society, I promptly joined it. We were greeted by a monk(who call themselves dada) who was upfront about what their path was about(It is a form of tantra) As always, I did research on it and discovered that it was branded as a Terrorist organization in the past. But the reason for those were the extreme actions the followers took when the leader Prahbat Sarkar was wrongfully imprisoned by a corrupt government. So I gave it the benefit of the doubt. I was formally initiated into Anandamarga Yoga up to the second level of teaching and attended three retreats. I was initiated by my acharya in a formal ceremony.
Anandamarga Yoga was far more serious spiritual business than other groups I have been involved in. Their techniques were proper Yoga. In the first phase I was initiated with a mantra which he said was unique to me(I have heard from one source the mantra is the same for everybody) in addition to the universal mantra we are given: Baba naam kevalam.
In the second phase I was given a visualization exercise and a pranayama with synchronized mantra. We also all learned a Yogic dance and the Tandava. What drove me away from the organization was the excessive kirtaan we did, especially at the retreats with the universal mantra. I am not a devotional person, so I found too much Kirtaan really off putting.
I was also putt off by the political actions of the organizations. Anandamarga is not just a Yogic tradition, it is highly political and is involved in activism. When I met the dadas at the retreat, one of them really put me off with Dravidian nationalism. He told how the Aryans had oppressed the Dravidians and how in the Ramayana they were called dark demons. I realised that for a dada who should be more spiritually developed than me, he should be able to see through such propogananda. When I said this was propoganda, he accused me of being Hindutva(Hindu nationalist) I was not impressed. They also insisted that Shiva was the founder of Yoga and Tantra was a global tradition going back tens of thousands of years. I said Shiva was a mythological figure, not a real life historical person. They opposed me saying they would put me in touch with historians in the organization.
As with any cult there was a tendency to censor free, critical and independent thinking. I had many debates with my acharya and he would rudely censor me in front of everybody. When they would ask questions about the Yoga philosophy we learned, he would tell us we were wrong if our answer was not word for word the same as he taught it. I noticed he had a lot of ego and loved the sound of his own voice. He was suppose to be a monk and high initiate - but I was not impressed. He once shouted at me in front of everyone. I stopped going thereafter.
[QUOTE=Sahasrara;56113]How about including “Art of Living” In this thread? Any comments and personal experiences?
Is this also a cult? take a look at the following link.
They all sound like MAYA in different colors with Saguna Brahman (I may be wrong) :)[/QUOTE]
dont hit da [B]heAD.[/B]
[QUOTE=bjoy;56211]dont hit da [B]heAD.[/B][/QUOTE]
I didn’t get it
MAYA in different colors. Thats true.
[QUOTE=bjoy;56217]MAYA in different colors. Thats true.[/QUOTE]
Scriptures say MAYA is Saguna Brahman. I may be wrong. I am not an expert in scriptures.
It is the karmic cycle which leads one to these cults and it is also the same karmic cycle that removes the veil of MAYA.
Servam Brahmamayam!
maybe, you are right. howmany livetimes we’ll stick to that cycle of karma. maybe, we need a breakonthrough. i need to kiss the sky, excuseme.
aum.
I am not sure we could say Saguna Brahman is Maya. Remember, the difference between Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman is form and formlessness. Saguna Brahman is also Brahman, but it’s Brahman manifest as a form. Say Surya Deva 
Maya is more of the ignorance of perception. Mistaking the unreal to be the real, the not self to be the self, pain to be pleasure. It an illusory energy born out of a potency within Brahman itself.