Cults In Yoga - Siddha / Brahma Kumaris / Sahaja Yoga, etc (often non physical Yoga)

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#14

Namaste Mindninja,

It is important to expose cults, but it also important not to swing too much the other way to anti-cult organizations. Every big organization has enemies, just as every big personality does. There are several of these anti-cult and anti guru organizations set up by disgruntled ex-members, and in many cases you will find they spread disinformation, exaggerate faults etc. If you get involved in a spiritual cult, you are getting involved in a community of people who share similar beliefs and are accepting a heirarchy. If you agree with those beliefs and the heirarchy, then that is fine. You have chosen to be a part of it. However, if you do not agree, then that is fine as well, do not be a part of it. But often it is the case that people join but do not really believe in their beliefs, and later face problems. For example on the anti-BK site you linked, one of the sisters ends up falling in love with a male member, but she knew from the start that celibacy is one of their tenets. She ends up commiting suicide from the censure she gets. But of course she was going to get censure. Did she expect them to change their tenets?

A lot of these anti and disgruntled ex members would not be so, if they just did some research before they got involved in a spiritual cult. I have never had a problem with cults. When I wanted to leave, I left with no problems. I left the BK’s because they were shallow and had nothing to keep me there, I left SY because I realised the founder was a fraud and their techniques pseudoscience. I never got too involved, because I did my research early on, realised I did not agree with them, and left. I left the Osho group because I realised they were just a bunch of hippies.

#15

Regarding Osho,

My exposure to Osho has made Osho an unlikely teacher in my life. I was not expecting to becoming so taken in by him. What Osho teaches is pure spiritual anarchy, but it really strikes a chord with the rebellious side inside you. I grew up as a Sikh, and I got really fed up of the moral preaching at me from the priests at the Sikh temple and from my family, when realising that they themselves did not practice what they preach. I met many priests who were meat eaters, drank alcohol and were simply horrible people. I got fed up of this mantra of god, god god. Osho for me, was a release from the false morality of religion. I became completely liberated when I realised I could do whatever I want and I did not need the concept of god. I need to free myself from all the conditioning I had received in life of being moral, and I went all out drinking, having sex, being arrogant, throwing morality out of the picture and doing whatever I bloody wanted - I became one of the most debauched people I know. I even surpassed my friend who also became an unlikely guru to me(also debauched, but harmless) Of course, I never harmed anybody else - if there is anybody I have harmed by following Osho’s teachings - is myself. Although I am fine at the moment, I have probably really severely damaged my energy and physical body. The amount of sex I have had with random strangers, in the seediest of places and alcohol I have consumed averaging 20-30 pints a weekend + dozens of mixers, could probably set records. At one point I drank everyday for 2 months and would come home at 7am in the morning.

I recently fell severely ill: First I was hit by shingles, which is a very rare immunity disease. But fortunately, it only lasted a few days and the pain it is suppose to leave did not happen. Recently, I was hit by tonsilitits(another rare immunity problem for adults) then chest infection, then fever that remained for weeks, and then severe dehydration. I only recovered this week. I have not touched any alcohol for a whole month, and have now quit.

I have paid a heavy price in following the left hand path of Osho, and I will probably be paying it back for the rest of my life. The damage I have done to my energy body, and to lesser extent physical body is invisible - but I know it is there. But do I regret it? Not at all. I freed myself from false morality. I am now in a position to go onto the right hand path. I may have destroyed my chances in getting enlightenment in this life, but I have cleared the way for my future lives. So Osho has served a very important role as a guru in my life - to break me so I can reinvent myself.

#16

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56128]Regarding Osho,

My exposure to Osho has made Osho an unlikely teacher in my life. I was not expecting to becoming so taken in by him. What Osho teaches is pure spiritual anarchy, but it really strikes a chord with the rebellious side inside you. I grew up as a Sikh, and I got really fed up of the moral preaching at me from the priests at the Sikh temple and from my family, when realising that they themselves did not practice what they preach. I met many priests who were meat eaters, drank alcohol and were simply horrible people. I got fed up of this mantra of god, god god. Osho for me, was a release from the false morality of religion. I became completely liberated when I realised I could do whatever I want and I did not need the concept of god. I need to free myself from all the conditioning I had received in life of being moral, and I went all out drinking, having sex, being arrogant, throwing morality out of the picture and doing whatever I bloody wanted - I became one of the most debauched people I know. I even surpassed my friend who also became an unlikely guru to me(also debauched, but harmless) Of course, I never harmed anybody else - if there is anybody I have harmed by following Osho’s teachings - is myself. Although I am fine at the moment, I have probably really severely damaged my energy and physical body. The amount of sex I have had with random strangers, in the seediest of places and alcohol I have consumed averaging 20-30 pints a weekend + dozens of mixers, could probably set records. At one point I drank everyday for 2 months and would come home at 7am in the morning.

I recently fell severely ill: First I was hit by shingles, which is a very rare immunity disease. But fortunately, it only lasted a few days and the pain it is suppose to leave did not happen. Recently, I was hit by tonsilitits(another rare immunity problem for adults) then chest infection, then fever that remained for weeks, and then severe dehydration. I only recovered this week. I have not touched any alcohol for a whole month, and have now quit.

I have paid a heavy price in following the left hand path of Osho, and I will probably be paying it back for the rest of my life. The damage I have done to my energy body, and to lesser extent physical body is invisible - but I know it is there. But do I regret it? Not at all. I freed myself from false morality. I am now in a position to go onto the right hand path. I may have destroyed my chances in getting enlightenment in this life, but I have cleared the way for my future lives. So Osho has served a very important role as a guru in my life - to break me so I can reinvent myself.[/QUOTE]

you have done no such damage to the energy body. Wouldn’t be much of an energy body if it could be damaged so easily.

The physical body has very good powers of recuperation if working properly.

No chances have been destroyed.

Osho provided you with self knowledge. This is self study.

#17

[QUOTE=The Scales;56132]you have done no such damage to the energy body. Wouldn’t be much of an energy body if it could be damaged so easily.

The physical body has very good powers of recuperation if working properly.

No chances have been destroyed.

Osho provided you with self knowledge. This is self study.[/QUOTE]

Let us hope you are right. I will soon be on the right hand path.

#18

Surya Deva,

Of course well aware anti-cult people especially disgruntled ex-members have an axe to grind so to speak. However with many Cults not just Eastern ones such as Scientology, Moonies (Unification Church), The Family (Children of God), etc - the evidence is so overwhelming it is undeniable to anyone with an open mind, and easlily provable using official documents and sources from the movement.

There are many hallmarks or key factors of Cults. One is hiding lot of the knowledge what they really believe to new members then slowly indoctrinating them - this is done in Scientology, Sahaja Yoga, Moonies, etc. They most certainly do not put all their cards on the table to potential or new recruits because many would run a mile (e.g. if they new about Xenu the galatic warlord and alien spirits Thetans causing all human afflictions, or L. Ron Hubbard’s blatant lies about his achievements and personal history, etc). With Sahaja Yoga this is certainly the case too, you go along and it seems like a harmless Yoga group they give you few basic exercises; they don’t mention how they really regard Shri Mataji, demon banishing rituals, arranged marriages, etc.

Another hallmark of a Cult is ‘love bombing’ as a new member you are showered with attention everybody talks to you and tries to make you feel as welcome as possible, they are like your new best friends. Sahaja Yoga, Moonies, Scientology , etc are notoroius for it.

Future Financial commitment is also kept secret from new recruits, Scientology will never tell a new member to get to the top level requires hundreds of thousands of pounds or dollars. They gradually reel you in and ‘hook’ you, and get you to sign up for more courses. They will also never tell you initially of nice little clause in contract you will sign in future - as a Scientology member you get all courses at huge discounts but should you ever leave, you have to payback them all in the full amounts, thus they can bankrupt you and tremendous psychological ploy so you don’t leave easily. If you do leave you basically lose all friends and family still in Scientology and are effectively cut off.

TM - Transcendental Meditation holds back to new or potential recruits on the huge costs, and certainly does not reveal you learn Mantra and prayers as it claims initially to be completely non religious and compatible with any existing faith out there. TM has strong marketing, hyping what is basic meditation nothing particularly unique or special as something amazing that can transform the world.

As mentioned earlier some would say SRF Self Realization Fellowship, Brahma Kumaris, etc are not cults and totally harmless, whilst Sahaja Yoga or the Moonies would be an example of cults. Is there really that much distinction between them?

#19

Yes, we should definitely expose dangerous cults. I have a friend who was involved in Scientology, and he told me how bad they were. First of all they charge very expensive prices for their course, they give you discounts on later ones. He said he had appreciated the techniques he had learned. But I said to him, those techniques were not invented by Scientology(such as sweating it out in the sauna) and he could have learned everything for free if he did a bit of research. He told me how controlling scientology was, how they would personally send envoys to your house to check up on you if you missed a session.

In my opinion Sahaja Yoga and Osho group qualify as dangerous cults, but BK’s I don’t think are dangerous. Gullible and naive indeed, but I have never seen any evidence of foul play. They are also endorsed by the UN and many other reputable organizations.

I barely know nothing about SRF. I understand that it was founded by Yogananda, but now that he has passed away, I understand SRF split up into many splinter groups. There is a web site started by an ex member online who reveals all the Kriya yoga techniques, he argued that when you learn them in the organization you literally have to wait for years and he did not agree with the secrecy. The techniques he has published in his ebooks and they are very powerful techniques. I did them for a while, before abandoning meditation altogether and going the Osho path.

TM is a scam. I would not say dangerous - but definitely a scam.

#20

I have also been involved in Anandamarga Yoga for about a year. I think next to the BK,s this was my longest time in a cult. Anandamarga Yoga operates in various universities teaching Yoga and meditation. When I discovered my local university had a Yoga and meditation society, I promptly joined it. We were greeted by a monk(who call themselves dada) who was upfront about what their path was about(It is a form of tantra) As always, I did research on it and discovered that it was branded as a Terrorist organization in the past. But the reason for those were the extreme actions the followers took when the leader Prahbat Sarkar was wrongfully imprisoned by a corrupt government. So I gave it the benefit of the doubt. I was formally initiated into Anandamarga Yoga up to the second level of teaching and attended three retreats. I was initiated by my acharya in a formal ceremony.

Anandamarga Yoga was far more serious spiritual business than other groups I have been involved in. Their techniques were proper Yoga. In the first phase I was initiated with a mantra which he said was unique to me(I have heard from one source the mantra is the same for everybody) in addition to the universal mantra we are given: Baba naam kevalam.
In the second phase I was given a visualization exercise and a pranayama with synchronized mantra. We also all learned a Yogic dance and the Tandava. What drove me away from the organization was the excessive kirtaan we did, especially at the retreats with the universal mantra. I am not a devotional person, so I found too much Kirtaan really off putting.

I was also putt off by the political actions of the organizations. Anandamarga is not just a Yogic tradition, it is highly political and is involved in activism. When I met the dadas at the retreat, one of them really put me off with Dravidian nationalism. He told how the Aryans had oppressed the Dravidians and how in the Ramayana they were called dark demons. I realised that for a dada who should be more spiritually developed than me, he should be able to see through such propogananda. When I said this was propoganda, he accused me of being Hindutva(Hindu nationalist) I was not impressed. They also insisted that Shiva was the founder of Yoga and Tantra was a global tradition going back tens of thousands of years. I said Shiva was a mythological figure, not a real life historical person. They opposed me saying they would put me in touch with historians in the organization.

As with any cult there was a tendency to censor free, critical and independent thinking. I had many debates with my acharya and he would rudely censor me in front of everybody. When they would ask questions about the Yoga philosophy we learned, he would tell us we were wrong if our answer was not word for word the same as he taught it. I noticed he had a lot of ego and loved the sound of his own voice. He was suppose to be a monk and high initiate - but I was not impressed. He once shouted at me in front of everyone. I stopped going thereafter.

#21

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;56113]How about including “Art of Living” In this thread? Any comments and personal experiences?

Is this also a cult? take a look at the following link.

artoflivingfree.blogspot.com

They all sound like MAYA in different colors with Saguna Brahman (I may be wrong) :)[/QUOTE]

dont hit da [B]heAD.[/B]

#22

[QUOTE=bjoy;56211]dont hit da [B]heAD.[/B][/QUOTE]

I didn’t get it :slight_smile:

#23

MAYA in different colors. Thats true.

#24

[QUOTE=bjoy;56217]MAYA in different colors. Thats true.[/QUOTE]

Scriptures say MAYA is Saguna Brahman. I may be wrong. I am not an expert in scriptures.

It is the karmic cycle which leads one to these cults and it is also the same karmic cycle that removes the veil of MAYA.

Servam Brahmamayam!

#25

maybe, you are right. howmany livetimes we’ll stick to that cycle of karma. maybe, we need a breakonthrough. i need to kiss the sky, excuseme.

aum.

#26

I am not sure we could say Saguna Brahman is Maya. Remember, the difference between Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman is form and formlessness. Saguna Brahman is also Brahman, but it’s Brahman manifest as a form. Say Surya Deva :wink:

Maya is more of the ignorance of perception. Mistaking the unreal to be the real, the not self to be the self, pain to be pleasure. It an illusory energy born out of a potency within Brahman itself.

#27

" Mistaking the unreal to be the real, the not self to be the self"

To discriminate between the two may be useful just as a means of entry into ones own original nature. Otherwise, once one has come to the space, these distinctions simply disappear - they are none other than shadows of ones own mind. It is ones own mind which has divided things into categories of polar opposites, between the self and the non-self, the real and the unreal, the good and the bad, the right and the wrong, darkness and light, male and female, existence and non-existence, all of which are just reflections of ones own relative ideas and concepts. Truth is not something that belongs to any of our mental categories whatsoever. Raise even a single thought about it - and one immediately becomes entangled in delusion. Inexpressible beyond the inexpressible, to grasp it is like trying to swallow the whole ocean in one gulp. When in a direct encounter with ones own original nature, let there be a silent understanding and nothing more.

#28

Haha, it almost sounds like I have had some experience with every cult. I am a true seeker in every sense of that word. I have looked at everything to satisfy my soul’s thrist - and alas my soul is even more thirsty.

What else have I been involved in? I am a member of the Theosophical lodge. I have also given talks there.
This is my first Western cult. The Theosophical lodge are harmless today though, and to be honest a bit boring. They are too stuck in their Victorian ways, and they meet infrequently at the local lodge. The sessions are usually divided into a study group and then some random lecture on a new-age topic. In the past, I understand they have been involved in a lot of fradulent activity and I strongly question the origins of the Secret Doctrine and the Mahatma letters, which claim have been channeled to them by the adepts and ascended masters in India and Tibet. I do indeed like reading their literature, such as the Key to Theosophy - but they need a complete overhaul if they want to survive into the 21st century.

I have contact with other Western cults through friends: The Freemasons, The Golden Dawn, OTO - we occasionally meet in the pub and have dinner together. I also attended about a year of Gnostic classes. In general I find them harmless, and very knowlegable - but alas very new-age. Although they themselves oppose new-age stuff and resent the label. I know that a lot of the stuff they teach, which they claim is part of an indigenious Western tradition, is just a rehash of the Eastern tradition. A note to Western new agers: stop pretending you have an indigenious Yoga tradition. You do not. The closest thing you have to Yoga is Neo-platonism and Gnosticism, but they are definitely not as developed as Yoga and were prematurely ended by the Roman Empire. This is why you follow Yoga. Oh, and Kabbalh is not an authentic tradition, it is new-age interpretation of the bible.

What else have I been involved in? Dabbled in the new age attending spiritual churches weekly for a few months for open circle mediumship and healling. Had a medium mentor for a month. Attended some psychic development classes and learned crystal healing, dousing and healing, fragments of reikei, aura gazing, astral projection, Indigo children and other such superficial rubbish. This is a cult in itself because these people are highly needy, deluded and do not practice real spirituality. They delude themselves into thinking they have become enlightened - but they are usually just morons.

Attended 1 class of the Hare Krishnas and visited their IKSON temple in India. Just wow. These are some of the most fundamentalist people I have ever met, and stupid. Stay away for your sanity.

I have gone to Church a few times, but never a Mosque. I have read both the holy bible and the Quran. The Quran was leant to me by a Muslim fundamentalist student at high school in order to convert me. Obviously it did not work. These scriptures to me are at the bottom of the barrel of every scripture I have read and every new-age book I have read. The only reason people continue to read them is because they do it out of a sense of loyalty and respect or faith. Otherwise, they are just remenants of a primitive desert culture - and teach you NOTHING!

I have also read the Sikh bible the Guru Granth Sahib. It is a lot more positive and uplifting - but boy is it repetitive. I get the message already, “God is great, god is love, god is beyond description - god god god god god” It is basically a giant book of odes to god.

I am less versed in Buddhist scriptures. I have the Dhammapada lying around somewhere. I gave it a cursory glance, but was not too impressed. I have also read the Tao-te-ching, nice, but not too impressive. Buddhist and Taoic scriptures tend to be quite light in content, but still spiritually uplifting to read. They are no matches for Hindu scriptures though which are often rational and scientific discourses and teach pure spirituality.

Finally, in terms of “secular Yoga” I did the Bihar School of Yoga Satyananda Yoga for a few months. I found it dry, but very serious and no BS stuff. I am considering BSY seriously for my future path. They are very serious about their Yoga and their books, “Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas”, “Yoga Nidra”, “Sure ways to self-realization” are some of the best and most informative I have found ever. They are like a benchmark in Yoga.

#29

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56307]Haha, it almost sounds like I have had some experience with every cult. I am a true seeker in every sense of that word. I have looked at everything to satisfy my soul’s thrist - and alas my soul is even more thirsty.

What else have I been involved in? I am a member of the Theosophical lodge. I have also given talks there.
This is my first Western cult. The Theosophical lodge are harmless today though, and to be honest a bit boring. They are too stuck in their Victorian ways, and they meet infrequently at the local lodge. The sessions are usually divided into a study group and then some random lecture on a new-age topic. In the past, I understand they have been involved in a lot of fradulent activity and I strongly question the origins of the Secret Doctrine and the Mahatma letters, which claim have been channeled to them by the adepts and ascended masters in India and Tibet. I do indeed like reading their literature, such as the Key to Theosophy - but they need a complete overhaul if they want to survive into the 21st century.

I have contact with other Western cults through friends: The Freemasons, The Golden Dawn, OTO - we occasionally meet in the pub and have dinner together. I also attended about a year of Gnostic classes. In general I find them harmless, and very knowlegable - but alas very new-age. Although they themselves oppose new-age stuff and resent the label. I know that a lot of the stuff they teach, which they claim is part of an indigenious Western tradition, is just a rehash of the Eastern tradition. A note to Western new agers: stop pretending you have an indigenious Yoga tradition. You do not. The closest thing you have to Yoga is Neo-platonism and Gnosticism, but they are definitely not as developed as Yoga and were prematurely ended by the Roman Empire. This is why you follow Yoga. [B]Oh, and Kabbalh is not an authentic tradition, it is new-age interpretation of the bible.[/B]

What else have I been involved in? Dabbled in the new age attending spiritual churches weekly for a few months for open circle mediumship and healling. Had a medium mentor for a month. Attended some psychic development classes and learned crystal healing, dousing and healing, fragments of reikei, aura gazing, astral projection, Indigo children and other such superficial rubbish. This is a cult in itself because these people are highly needy, deluded and do not practice real spirituality. They delude themselves into thinking they have become enlightened - but they are usually just morons.

Attended 1 class of the Hare Krishnas and visited their IKSON temple in India. Just wow. These are some of the most fundamentalist people I have ever met, and stupid. Stay away for your sanity.

I have gone to Church a few times, but never a Mosque. I have read both the holy bible and the Quran. The Quran was leant to me by a Muslim fundamentalist student at high school in order to convert me. Obviously it did not work. These scriptures to me are at the bottom of the barrel of every scripture I have read and every new-age book I have read. The only reason people continue to read them is because they do it out of a sense of loyalty and respect or faith. Otherwise, they are just remenants of a primitive desert culture - and teach you NOTHING!

I have also read the Sikh bible the Guru Granth Sahib. It is a lot more positive and uplifting - but boy is it repetitive. I get the message already, “God is great, god is love, god is beyond description - god god god god god” It is basically a giant book of odes to god.

I am less versed in Buddhist scriptures. I have the Dhammapada lying around somewhere. I gave it a cursory glance, but was not too impressed. I have also read the Tao-te-ching, nice, but not too impressive. Buddhist and Taoic scriptures tend to be quite light in content, but still spiritually uplifting to read. They are no matches for Hindu scriptures though which are often rational and scientific discourses and teach pure spirituality.

Finally, in terms of “secular Yoga” I did the Bihar School of Yoga Satyananda Yoga for a few months. I found it dry, but very serious and no BS stuff. I am considering BSY seriously for my future path. They are very serious about their Yoga and their books, “Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas”, “Yoga Nidra”, “Sure ways to self-realization” are some of the best and most informative I have found ever. They are like a benchmark in Yoga.[/QUOTE]

I think you will find many, most, if not all jews - who are learned in the quaballa ’ scoffing at your assertion.

The dhammapada and tao te ching are not impressive to you?

Brosif.

While I do certainly enjoy many of your rants, and your complete ownage of Amir in that one thread . . . :wink: (for you), and all your scholarly knowledge which I find considerable and your contributions to the diversity of this forum - this thread is a prime example - and yes - while I certainly do enjoy all that - more or less - i must tell you that when it comes to the vedas and the sanatana dharma - and all it’s different flavors - you have tunnel vision.

In your eyes - nothing can compare to it.

#30

Absolutely, nothing compares to the Vedic tradition because nothing is as concentrated in knowlege From the Vedic corpus we learn the following:

We learn about the principles of dharma
We learn about the science of discernment between matter and consciousness
We learn about the science of economics
We learn about the science of Yoga
We learn about the science of medicine and surgery
We learn about the science of logic and epistemology
We learn about the science of linguistics
We learn about the science of metre
We learn about the science of astrology
We learn about the science of engineering

In which other tradition of religious scriptures do we learn this knowledge? The Dhammapada only focusses on moral teachings and teaching the four noble truths. The Tao-te-ching is just a collection of wise sayings. The bible is just a book telling you the history of the Judeo people and the conditions at the time. It gives you wrong information like the earth is flat, because that is what people believed then. Ethically, it is highly backwards.

The Vedic corpus gets the praise that it does because it is teaches you knowledge. You can still pick them up today and and increase your knowledge and learn something, and actually gain something. They also teach you practices you can go practice like pranayama etc. I am not the only one who says this. Look at the conversations we have on this board and look at the terminology we use: maya, prakriti, purusha, brahman, guna, atman, kosha, chitta, vritti, buddhi, prana, kundalini, chakras, nadi, vata, pitta, kapha, mahabhuta, yuga, karma, dharma. Where do all these terms come from? The Vedic corpus. We obviously use these terms because they are the most precise terms to describe what we want to describe.

The truth is clear we get all our knowledge of spirituality and Yoga from the Vedic corupus. This is why I praise the Vedic tradition. I once bumped into somebody on the street, a black man, before I could say Veda, he said it for me. He started talking about in all his studies he has done in his life into spirituality, he has found the Vedic tradition to have the most clearest and most advanced knowledge. All experts in spirituality agree. This is why we use Vedic terms. The very least we can do is show a bit of respect to this tradition.

We should not engage in jealousy games by comparing other scriptures like the bible, quran, tao-te-ching to them - because there is no comparison. These texts do not give you clear and precise knowledge on spirituality like the Vedas do. We use Vedic terms on this forum because the Vedas are the best sources of spiritual knowledge.

As for Kabbalh. I don’t care what Jewish scholars say. Kabbah is a mystical interpretation of the OT. It is not authentic, because the meanings are invented using dubious methods of interpretation as credible as numerology is.

#31

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56316]Absolutely, nothing compares to the Vedic tradition because nothing is as concentrated in knowlege From the Vedic corpus we learn the following:

We learn about the principles of dharma
We learn about the science of discernment between matter and consciousness
We learn about the science of economics
We learn about the science of Yoga
We learn about the science of medicine and surgery
We learn about the science of logic and epistemology
We learn about the science of linguistics
We learn about the science of metre
We learn about the science of astrology
We learn about the science of engineering

Certainly apart from the last two I have studied or touched upon all the above in buddhist teachings , in sangha settings , no doubt influenced and originally coming from a culture of which you champion. Shakyamuni Buddha was not overly keen on relying too much on astrology from what I understand .
It took seven weeks for the moslems to burn the books at nalanda university thats a lot of effort and a lot of books !

#32

The entire Buddhist canon, I would have to say, is more voluminous than that ascribed to hinduism.

Yup.

Ewwwww.

Burn.

Tsssssssssssss.

Stings don’t it.

Back in the olden days. Buddhist scholars would straight up school the ‘learned brahmins’

Shantideva owned them hindoos!

At least thats how the story goes - as told from the Buddhist point of view. :slight_smile: Of course.

I also am slightly disappointed that some time ago you engaged in debate on the Buddhadharma when your primary exposure to the system was the 30 page long (if that) dhammapada - that you flipped through on the toilet?

Ugh.

maintain your integrity.

#33

I am not a big fan of astrology either, not because I don’t believe the science is real, but I don’t believe in astrologers. Jyotisha is a very precise science and requires experts to analyse your star charts, and many so-called experts are commercial astrologers who just want to make a quick buck.

Vedic Astrology is of course superior to Western astrology :wink: You can do a search for yourself online and get expert opinions. Vedic astrology is superior and actually gives accurate results.