Does one need a guru?


#141

Namaste all,
[A guru is a spiritual Master who lives in the constant experience of the divine inner Self and who is able both to initiate seekers and to guide them on the spiritual path to liberation. Quote from Play of consciousness Baba Muktananda]
Some of you say ego , karma or internet can be guru. I think that is a misunderstanding. Things that help you to know or understand things in live are not the same as guru who can help remove the veil of ignorance. You can not find in a book what is inside you. Meditate on the Self to find what is inside you is the best you can do.
with love from louise


#142

as was said here by Hubert i believe, a Guru shows up when the disciple is ready.
Ready means, when one has a srtong desire for liberation. that great internal longing brings the Guru. But from my experience, when one knows it and feels it one can also seek. when i felt as such, I was in Greece still practicing the iyengar method. i sent a friend to a yoga class far from my place. Then one day i decided to join her…and their i met a dada ( a brother in sanskrit). He was a monk in Ananda Marga. Through him i met my didi ( a yoga nun)…and There I met my Guru.
So…when one feels that longing inside, that strong desire one can also make some steps.

wise people say that when we make just a single step God gives another ten.


#143

[QUOTE=louise molenkamp;16739] Meditate on the Self to find what is inside you is the best you can do.[/QUOTE]

you will harbour such thoughts only after your good samskaras (karma) allows you to or advices you to.

a fine example of how karma can act as our guru. It is karma that brings us to the point where we have this strong desire for liberation.

I won?t be liberated until I learn my lessons well. Karma will keep teaching me lessons after lessons till I realize ?I am that?.

[QUOTE=louise molenkamp;16739]You can not find in a book what is inside you.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you, but than what is inside me is not different from what is inside you & Baba Muktananada. If you want you can double-check it :slight_smile:


#144

I think we have many “gurus” during our lifetime.

When you are a child your mother is the guru.

When you are a student your teacher is the guru. Can you imagine learn
mathematics without a professor ? I tried once. When you get bogged
down-and you inevitably will-only a professor can help you out.

I remember one of my most difficult exams. It was theoretical physics,
with lots of math involved. The professor allowed us to have all the
books we wanted to read through during the exam. The books did not
help much !

If this is the case with a “guru” for lower endeavours in life, how much
more do we neede a guru in yoga, which can be subtle, complicated,
and downright dangerous in advanced practices ?


#145

Knowledge is power, knowledge is identity, and knowledge is the combination of perception, reasoning and learning. A guru helps his students to open the eyes of knowledge. He quenches their thirst for knowledge. So, how one can be enlightened without a guru? Life is dark and dull without the light of knowledge. And, thus the journey of life is incomplete without a guru or mentor.


#146

This is an excellent thread to follow. I’ll echo what has already been said…
Many western individuals possess deep-seated resistance to the culture of the guru seeker. But if you are stepping into the 3000+ year-old current of yogic tradition, then you are on some level acknowledging the great lineage of masters and seekers.

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;4754]The answer is that it depends on what aspiration the student is seeking at this time. There may not be need for a Guru right now. Tomorrow there may be great need. Having a guru simply for the sake of having one serves nothing. If you are not ready to have lght shined then a light shiner is not needed…[/QUOTE]
Ultimately, “the guru lives in your heart.”


#147

In actual fact, I think that the problem is not if we need a guru. The problem is how to find a real guru.

Let us have an analogy. We have a math teacher in elementary school, a math teacher in
high school, a math professor in university and a math guru if you go further, doing research in math. So there are gurus at different levels.

Who is the guru at the highest level ? It is definitely not easy to find him. Actually it might take a lifetime to find a real guru.


#148

Gu means Darkness Ru means Light. From darkness to Light. Guru is not a person. There are masters yes, but the only guru to have empowered all masters is Awareness.

To answer your question oak333:

In actual fact, I think that the problem is not if we need a guru. The problem is how to find a real guru.

Eventually all are pulling their words and actions either out of Free Awareness or out of a Conditioned Mind. To be able to tell the difference between these two ways of speaking and acting is to recognize the guru from the hypocrite.


#149

I think that you can make a lot of growth without a guru. But if you want to reach the ultimate state that people cannot imagine, then you do need a guru.


#150

guru brahma guru

vishnu guru

devo maheswarah

guru saakshath parambrahma

tasmayi sri guravenamah

guru is very important for anything to learn. One should chant this manthara before learning anything or start any yoga exercise


#151

With all do respect, that is utter nonsense. No one needs any mantra for anything. I am happy for you that it works for you, but stating this like a fact is ridiculous haha. Allow others the freedom to not be formed and conditioned by years of tradition please. That will only keep them blind for longer.

[B]If you just put aside your belief systems about anything[/B], even for a short moment, you will see that conscious clarity of awareness is very natural and need no structure or mental concept built around it for it to come into existence. That is all outer stuff and additional beliefs that you are taking in.

[U]Tell me something:[/U] If you (any of you) think one needs a guru to come to realization, then how could someone ever reach enlightenment in the beginning of the human race. How did the first guru’s do it if you say it is a fact that everyone needs a guru to learn and reach enlightenment?

And how do you explain all the cases of people becoming enlightened without a guru?

Then tell me again that it is a fact that you need a guru to reach the ultimate (which is simply your natural you, independently free and natural from any form, therefore, from any guru).

It cannot be that complex, it can not be so much based on mind and mental concepts. [I]We are the ones creating these beliefs![/I] and then the silly thing is, we actually go about and belief we are dependent on them, we need them for seeing, for realizing, for being. We are free already, we just need to see it. If we say we really need a guru (or a mantra, or anything else) before anything, then we will take the long way home.

I [U]promise[/U] every single one of you who follow the path of the guru, mantra, or any traditional practice, and who really hangs on to those belief systems imposed on you by outer practices, that before your time of enlightenment comes, you will come to a stage of ultimate ‘let go’ and it will be something like a major breakdown.

Then you will see that all this practice and discipline wasn’t truly helping you, it seemed like it did, you felt better and more happy, but that is not revolution, that is not transformation, that my friends, is not enlightenment.

You will see that all that you clinced to all your life and all that you ought to be sacred and special only kept you down and blinded you from the obviousness of your soul, your awareness, right here right now, the simplicity of it was not seen by you, because you were projecting so much additional stuff onto your future. Sooner or later you will see you are utterly free without anybody who needs to master you. A guru, mantra, discipline or practice, is merely to satisfy your insecurity. To be able to hold on to that.

I say be adventurous, be free, be who you are and stop all nonsense in yourself.

Just [B]STOP![/B]… and See…

Again and again, untill you realize your freedom at all times.

With Love,
Bentinho.


#152

I think the beauty of this whole thread is that it underlines the diversity that do exist in opinions and that for some there is no value in a guru and for others there are.

No matter what you belief, what matters is that you belief it is right for you and your spiritual development.

My guru at the moment is my beautiful spaniel, who is teaching me so much at the moment about unconditional love, bless her soul for that. :slight_smile:


#153

I do actually agree with you Pandara.

Let me clear something up in regard to my last post:
I do not think that there is fault in going to teachers and learning from masters of consciousness. Neither is there any wrongdoing in being immensely grateful for that.

The only thing I see to be a wrongdoing of oneself to oneself, is when that someone truly beliefs there is a [I]need[/I] for a guru, or that one is dependent on a guru for his/her development. It hurts me actually, as a human, having been through so many struggles with myself and teachers, to see people making themselves dependent on all kinds of things. This, truly, is [U]not[/U] [I]Ahimsa[/I]. This is violence against oneself.

I know it is tempting to subject oneself to a guru, but in doing so, please remain utterly vigilant and compassionate towards yourself. Remain a free man or woman, a free soul, cause that’s what you are. Remain aware, you are never dependent on anything. Interrelated yes, but [U]free. [/U]

Try not to lose yourself in any concept… And we often turn teachers into concepts and put ourselves in the dependent role to that mental concept, thinking that it is very real.

Love,
B.


#154

The full and true answer for Mukunda’s question has been given in the thread named “Some Light on Kriya yoga”, created by Pandara.

Strangely, by someone who only had that single post, named Kamakshi.

Good example of how truth lays on the roadside, but we walk by it without noticing. :slight_smile:


#155

Wow. This topic certainly does inspire a lot of attention, doesn’t it.

I have always felt that it has definitely helped me beyond description to listen to others. That is the way I learn. In fact, simply observing how I listen and how I respond to others is deeply informative.

So I would say that you must have a passionate desire for self observation, to watch how you behave habitually or in a reactive way and be conscious enough to change that into a nonreactive response.

You are your best teacher.


#156

[quote=Bentinho Massaro;17463]With all do respect, that is utter nonsense. No one needs any mantra for anything. I am happy for you that it works for you, but stating this like a fact is ridiculous haha. Allow others the freedom to not be formed and conditioned by years of tradition please. That will only keep them blind for longer.

[B]If you just put aside your belief systems about anything[/B], even for a short moment, you will see that conscious clarity of awareness is very natural and need no structure or mental concept built around it for it to come into existence. That is all outer stuff and additional beliefs that you are taking in.

[U]Tell me something:[/U] If you (any of you) think one needs a guru to come to realization, then how could someone ever reach enlightenment in the beginning of the human race. How did the first guru’s do it if you say it is a fact that everyone needs a guru to learn and reach enlightenment?

And how do you explain all the cases of people becoming enlightened without a guru?

Then tell me again that it is a fact that you need a guru to reach the ultimate (which is simply your natural you, independently free and natural from any form, therefore, from any guru).

It cannot be that complex, it can not be so much based on mind and mental concepts. [I]We are the ones creating these beliefs![/I] and then the silly thing is, we actually go about and belief we are dependent on them, we need them for seeing, for realizing, for being. We are free already, we just need to see it. If we say we really need a guru (or a mantra, or anything else) before anything, then we will take the long way home.

I [U]promise[/U] every single one of you who follow the path of the guru, mantra, or any traditional practice, and who really hangs on to those belief systems imposed on you by outer practices, that before your time of enlightenment comes, you will come to a stage of ultimate ‘let go’ and it will be something like a major breakdown.

Then you will see that all this practice and discipline wasn’t truly helping you, it seemed like it did, you felt better and more happy, but that is not revolution, that is not transformation, that my friends, is not enlightenment.

You will see that all that you clinced to all your life and all that you ought to be sacred and special only kept you down and blinded you from the obviousness of your soul, your awareness, right here right now, the simplicity of it was not seen by you, because you were projecting so much additional stuff onto your future. Sooner or later you will see you are utterly free without anybody who needs to master you. A guru, mantra, discipline or practice, is merely to satisfy your insecurity. To be able to hold on to that.

I say be adventurous, be free, be who you are and stop all nonsense in yourself.

Just [B]STOP![/B]… and See…

Again and again, untill you realize your freedom at all times.

With Love,
Bentinho.[/quote]

Bentinho,

A guru is supposed to be someone who models enlightened behavior for us, and guides us along the path – this is what I’ve been taught. I agree with you that it is incorrect to say that enlightenment without a guru is impossible, but what I’ve been taught is that a guru helps to speed up the process.

Namaste. :wink:


#157

[quote=DoYogaWithMe;18025]
You are your best teacher.[/quote]

Now THERE is a little gem worth keeping!


#158

Back to classics

Yogananda-The Second Coming of Christ

What is a guru?

The surest way to find God is to learn about Him from one who KNOWS Him. To follow a master whose path has led him to God realization is to reach assuredly the same Goal…

Of the total requirement to achieve salvation, it is said that 25 % is the disciple’s spiritual efort, 25 % is the blessing of guru, and the remaining 50 % is the grace of God.
The aspirant should not be tempted into complacency, however, waiting to be moved by the spirit of the blessings and grace, for it is the catalyst of the devotee’s effort that makes the formula work…

A guru is not an ordinary spiritual teacher. One may have many teachers, but only one guru, who is the agent of salvation APPOINTED BY GOD in response to a devotee’s demands for release from the bondage of matter…

to be cont’d


#159

Though it is true that finding a true guru is a rare thing in today’s world but we need a teacher/guru at each step. When we have to learn any profession we go to a professional school likewise if we need to know how to realize THAT, we need a competent teacher who can guide us on the PATH. I believe in that saying “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.”

Hari Om


#160

[quote=Mukunda;2330]It is rare to be like Ramana Maharshi and even he said in past lives a guru brought him to current state. Remind her that it is said that one current guru ? Baba Free John said ?dead gurus don?t kick ass? and one frequently needs that. If one feels that all their thoughts and activities are perfect then of course they don?t need correction. And can continue to live a life filled with illusion.

  The major benefit i received from having a guru was that he gave me discipline which enabled me to retain what tremendous energetic empowerment he gave me.  Without being able to hold what was given my mind would be much more unstble than it is.  Spiritual practices are just that practices to help us retain our connection to Spirit.  That presence is omnipresent and our mind is not.  We need help from one who has sustained their spiritual discipline over a long period of time and been approved by their teacher to help others.  

  The 13th century text, Vasistha's Yoga, is my current favorite read.  It describes the intimate relationship of the sage Vasistha to his protege Prince Rama.  One recent passage from this text on page 496 (SUNY edition) states "ignorance vanishes through sadhana.  Half of your spiritual ignorance is dispelled by the company of the holy ones, one fourth of it is destroyed by the study of scriptures and the other one fourth by self effort."  So one without a teacher or spiritual mentor can only do so much.  The text as a statement of the yoga tradition highly recommends relying upon the spiritual guide to help the students self effort achieve full benefits. Namaste, Mukunda[/quote]

[I]“Do you realize now the sacred significance and the supreme importance of the Guru’s role in the evolution of man? It was not without reason that the India of the past carefully tended and kept alive the lamp of Guru-Tattva. It is therefore not without reason that India, year after year, age after age, commemorates anew this ancient concept of the Guru, adores it and pays homage to it again and again, and thereby re-affirms its belief and allegiance to it. For, the true Indian knows that the Guru is the only guarantee for the individual to transcend the bondage of sorrow and death, and experience the Consciousness of the Reality.[/I]” :: Swami Sivananda