Pandara, I believe it’s a difference of degree relative to the individual and not a difference in kind. Every chromosome except one is an X and that Y is not a different " letter ", it’s an X also , mutated with the loss or trimming of a leg. Men have dysfunctional nipples because the basic human form is feminine. The secretion of Testosterone makes for most of the differences and there are 2 distinct times when it does it’s gender work in a new human embryo: at one dosing of testosterone the brain gets it’s gender orientation and at the other dosing the body. These dosings are sometimes different because they occur at different times and the testosterone level is different. Various things can affect the level. I am currently reading about this ( you may have guessed ) in a often funny but scientific book titled " Why Men Don’t Listen and Women Can’t Read Maps ", by Barbara and Allan Pease. They devote more than an entire chapter on this subject and variations our chemical natures produce. Since societies want things simple with our huge world-tribe population , these variations aren’t usually given the latitude they deserve. I am glad you have reached a wholeness with yourself and I can sympathize with you, like many others, who know the world trys to fit them into a shape to fit in with others before allowing individuals to express themselves naturally. I am not made for making money, never had much desire that way but the major trends of society are constantly pushing and pulling me to play that game. Luckily , almost by accident I have a job that takes care of me pretty well, if I didn’t have this job and had a more 'capitalized ’ job, I would probably have problems with my wholeness as well. Women and Men have a wide arc with many degrees between them. Namaste
I listened to the Swami and got some good from it but while I can see his point about women not doing " infrastructure " jobs because they are hardwired for intense passive enlightenment, rather than restless doing like men, I find it very difficult to reconcile with the diversity in half the human race. Some women fulfill themselves with traditionally male jobs and professions. Spiritual Feminine is in us all, as is the Active Masculine and even if the former is our goal spiritually we often need the latter to get there from here, which I think the Swami said, saying any adjustments to make the expression of ourselves are masculine, while the expression itself is feminine. Women in ’ male’ jobs can feminize those jobs to make them better eg. A Female cop could show that negotiation is sometimes better than force. Namaste.
[QUOTE=TonyTamer;22900]Men have dysfunctional nipples because the basic human form is feminine. [/QUOTE]
Not sure what you mean by “dysfunctional nipples” … as a matter of fact men can lactate, it just that most don’t try.
True.
But, unless they have a diseased liver that doesn’t breakdown the necessary hormones for lactation, it doesn’t happen, except in exceptional cases. Nipples on a man are leftover from an original feminine template. The XX vs. XY shows this graphically unless you treat the chromosomes ( which are all female X’s except for the sex gene for men, that’s 45 to 1 ) as alphabetical instead of biological . I say this for clarity and the guys out there squeezing. Namas-he-he-he.
Although the XX + XY differences seems far afield from gender differences in yoga, it does gives a biological symetry to the swami’s discourse as per the link from udaysree. Namaste
[QUOTE=TonyTamer;22949]But, unless they have a diseased liver that doesn’t breakdown the necessary hormones for lactation, it doesn’t happen, except in exceptional cases. Nipples on a man are leftover from an original feminine template. The XX vs. XY shows this graphically unless you treat the chromosomes ( which are all female X’s except for the sex gene for men, that’s 45 to 1 ) as alphabetical instead of biological . I say this for clarity and the guys out there squeezing. Namas-he-he-he.[/QUOTE]
I have to pick you up on this Tony Tamer but that is factually and scientifically incorrect!
Please check your facts - a quick session on Google should suffice:-D
In humans
Male lactation is a side effect that may be caused by hormonal treatments given to men suffering from prostate cancer, or drugs that block dopamine receptors. Female hormones are used to slow the production of cancerous prostate tissue, but the same hormones also stimulate the mammary glands. Male-to-female transsexuals may also produce milk owing to the hormones they take to reshape their bodies. It can be a side effect of antipsychotic medication. Extreme stress combined with demanding physical activity and a shortage of food has also been known to cause male lactation.( that’s the diseased liver function , I mentioned: an example from the book ) The phenomenon occurred in survivors of the liberated Nazi concentration camps after World War II.[1] Some American POWs returning from the Korean and Vietnam Wars also experienced male lactation. The phenomenon has also been observed in isolated cases in other parts of the world.[
Kamala, I said that it was exceptional and dysfunctional in “men’, that meant men as a group and generally. I readily admit that I am no expert either academically or with experience on this subject, nor do I feel a need to be, but what I posted on the forum was read almost word for word in a book that was more science than humor , despite the title " Why Men Don’t Listen and Women Can’t Read Maps” , the gist of which is that the genders have differently wired brains and so different perceptions and values in ostensibly the same world. I don’t see that lactation per se has that much to do with yoga except in a man’s potential for nurturing. And , no matter what I read or what anyone says, I have an intuitive belief that no matter how much I try I will not be able to produce milk, unless given hormones. If it were a natural phenomena that happenedif someone just wanted to try, I think people would know about it and many men would do it and try to do it better than anyone else, being the competitors we generally are. Namaste ( Let’s not make this a " Tempest in a C-cup '. )
[QUOTE=TonyTamer;22961] " Why Men Don’t Listen and Women Can’t Read Maps" …
if it were a natural phenomena that happened if someone just wanted to try, I think people would know about it [/QUOTE]
Umm… firstly. I notice you started this thread because you have a “hungry brain”. Perhaps your brain is crying out for better reading material!
And secondly. Of course there is no such thing as naturally occurring phenomena that only a few people know about… 
(I can tell you didn’t google it BTW!)
No storm in a tea cup (is that your ego talking?) just a discussion, admittedly veering off the original gender differences in yoga question.
Oh… you could try if you really wanted to. Go on, be competitive 
This is too funny…BTW , I did copy and paste the first paragraph I googled, which came from WikiPedia, I am not that smart even though I sound like it. That’s my ego talking , a confused entity if there ever was one. Namaste
The book is a very good book, worth reading…just like this post, I don’t think having a little humor sprinkled in detracts from other serious comments. It is mostly science, the humor is there because it asks us to see natural limitations in our basic biology and we naturally don’t like that, laughing helps…some enlightenments are accompanied by laughter , I’ve heard.TT
Are you saying ‘lighten up’ (Enlighten Up)?
I am usually lit.
Nightshade veggies have a odd effect on me. My connective tissue or muscles spasm up and play mad chiropractor with my spine and muscles. So for the last few days whenever a nerve pinches, I either yelp in pain or giggle and say to myself “This pain is reminding me that I’m alive”. Then I realize that I should skip the Nightshades or I’ll end up on meds. Although, having a few tomatoes in prime season is worth some aches and pains.
Some folks with arthritis and similar inflammation problems also notice that nightshades can trigger flareups. It seems to be a non gender thing for those sensitive.
Nevertheless, a swim in Lake Superior today was nice. The waves were fun, Gil.
P.S. Grilley has a yoga anatomy DVD that shows how varied our anatomies are. Although he doesn’t focus on genders, he just shows how the bone structures can limit certain range of motion and how different lengths of limbs can affect different poses.
[QUOTE=TonyTamer;22996]This is too funny…BTW , I did copy and paste the first paragraph I googled, which came from WikiPedia, I am not that smart even though I sound like it. That’s my ego talking , a confused entity if there ever was one. Namaste[/QUOTE]
No I’m serious! Try it! So your Google search didn’t manage to uncover the story about the man who breastfed his two children for two years after his wife died ? (in Sri Lanka, I think).
Go TonyTamer - kill two birds with one stone :
- prove yourself wrong and
- seriously challenge that ego (Is man milk manly? Discuss.)
:lol:
(My serious view is that EGO is the big gender difference in yoga)
Well, I thought I’d get stuff about hips and passive vs. active etc. but let’s go with what we have : just off the top I’d have to say that ego would be a difference but only in the way it expresses itself-it’d probably be the same amount but men would try and out-do everyone including themselves and would see asana as reflective of their worth as a hunter, and a woman, if I may theorize, would be worrying whether she was holding everyone back with her lack of grace and wondering if she were too fat to wear leotards or too slumpy wearing sweats. Seriously, the classes I’ve been in, those are minor notes and the major chord of OM Shanti, apparently pervades more than the air, so that ego plays less a part in the ashram than in daily life. How’s this for ego- I’ve been wrong more times than right, many more, and my ego doesn’t know which way is up, it’s been tossed around that much-not only by being wrong but by time proving my body and brain are targets, and not small ones. I hope you are not saying that men have the bigger ego’s-they are just differently egoed. Now, Manly Milk is an interesting concept-worthy of a science fiction book. More Yang in that Tang, I guess. TT
Thanks Gilyoga, for that post, interesting about the nightshades-which I’m sure you know, includes several poisonous members. This Yin yoga that Grilley promotes seems very appropriate for the aging yogi with it’s focus on tendons and fascia, and patience. I saw a great youtube demo of Yin with some guy with a moustache ( not Grilley ), it was soft and flexible to the max. I had always been a athletic-type and enjoyed things with power : I’m 56 and starting to realize I can stay in the game longer, doing less longer. Less meaning energy output. Was the water cold ? I’m doing cold showers when I wake up lately-I’m told it’s great for several things. TT
[QUOTE=TonyTamer;23034] I hope you are not saying that men have the bigger ego’s-they are just differently egoed. [/QUOTE]
Nope. I wouldn’t say men have bigger egos, just more visible? To be honest I am still trying to figure out what the deal is with womens egos… Not sure I really understand
(Yeah, I am a woman!)
Any ideas? I’m not buying the sexual attractiveness theory, I think that’s too occi-centric. Plus its the same for men.
BTW this is sooooooooo relevant to yoga since isn’t the goal of yoga the dissolution of the ego?
[QUOTE=TonyTamer;23036]I’m doing cold showers when I wake up lately-I’m told it’s great for several things. TT[/QUOTE]
It won’t be good for your milk supply 
Sexual Attractiveness would be roughly the same with both sexes except it would be expressed two different ways : men want to be seen as a good performers/hunters/providers while women want to be seen as nurturers/nest-makers/mothers. Egoes get sensitive when younger , stronger, wealthier, better-performing males are around or when younger, sexier, controlling ( Imperial Nurturers ) females are around . I don’t say this about any individuals but about men and women in general. I know it affects my ego if my asana is better or worse than anyone else’s, I try not to be affected either way but I know when my ego takes a breath in or out. My cold showers are going to modified with alterating warm-cold 3X. That’s supposed to get the juices flowing-like man-milk ( that’s the 1st emoticon I’ve ever used ). Is Occi-centric short for Occidental , which would mean a cultural distinction in male-female egoes East and West ? TT
[QUOTE=TonyTamer;23118] younger, sexier, controlling ( Imperial Nurturers ) females . …[/QUOTE]
Imperial Nurturers? Whazzat then? and the controlling bit… its kind of what I was thinking of when I used occi-centric (I’m pretty sure thats a real word! Meaning the viewpoint of the Western world).
I had in mind traditional female family raising set ups where survival depends on being part of a group to help with raising children (while the males were off getting the meat or whatever). So females wouldn’t behave like Alpha males or they’d lose that support instantly. The kudos in traditional womens nurturing groups comes from longevity and age and wisdom, not from youth and sexual attractiveness. In Western (“developed”) societies though this IS what is prized in women as the tribal female elder position/crone or even the idea that agedness is an honourable position has been lost.
So the female ego would be somewhat differently expressed …?.. I’m still looking for the answer.
Glad to see you’ve decided to take up the milk challenge! Using emoticons for the first time eh? I think its working
My daughter assures me that there are ’ Alpha Females’, that try to takeover groups of females. I don’t know about that but I know that occidentally most seem preoccupied with looks and measuring up to an ideal. I think that the snark-hunting of the ego requires the hunter to know his individual prey, such as in the occidental jungle look for occidental dangers. Of course, if one is of an oriental mind-set you have that for a jungle. For most women I know it’s that voice in their head that says they are not good enough. Namaste
That sounds familiar.For a moment ( that I’m still in ) I thought I was in the Twilight Zone, caolin, Why did you quote me from Age differences in Yoga and my reply to Gil ?-TT