Hi Sunyuting,
I have given up replying to messages between the lines ages ago. What you say: I mostly agree. You seem to assume I have a different point of view: Which one would that be? I won’t guess. 
@Moderators:
I’m not ignorant to the basic rule “1 subject per thread” that’s valid in some boards, but usually when posts go off-topic and another discussion begins, moderators will click some buttons to extract such posts to a new thread. So I will continue discussing the Qi Gong thing here instead of increasing confusion by starting a new thread in the middle of it. If that’s not ok, please let me know.
…
Hi Sunyuting:
Its all good.
Awesome.
I forgot to ask you something. If you are trying to spin your energy, do you put your tounge on the roof of your mouth? I do, it is supposed to make a connection.
Well, I did; it’s been a while since I tried wholeheartedly, like my previous Yoga-practice, at least a decade ago.
I also roll my all my points while I circle my energy. Sometimes I will walk a circle and hold out one hand toward the center. Shoot the energy from my palm down to the earth to let it hold up my hand. Switch directions and do the other hand. This comes naturally for me because of years of practice. After doing classes for many years, things just started to evolve. I feel the energy comes from opening the joints by stretching and holding yoga poses. The interesting thing is that now I feel others energy. It helps guide me where to be, and where not to be.
That is all unfamiliar to me. All I had (and have) is a strong feeling coming from the points when I focused on them. The intensity differs from time to time, but it never changed and there was never a flow of energy between any two points, that I was aware of.
All I have are different feelings with the different points. For example the Dan-Tien, it’s like the feeling one has in their belly when looking forward to something. And in the heart-point, it’s related to love, on the top of the head, it’s somewhat divine and large, between the eyes, trancecendence, and so on. I think that’s because there are endocrine glands that discharge hormones (see the image on the page “Endocrine glands” @Wikipedia) or nerve-clusters, that fire their impulses. So according to the theory, I guess I have no effects in the subtle body, only in the physical one.
I know one flow, though, are we all adults…? When I’m having an orgasm and imagine to pull the semen up the spine, there is something going on. I don’t get terribly far, at best close below the level of the heart (but it’s a quite excellent sensation :-D).
This (no flow) might be because all the subtle channels are blocked, I had been living quite a wild life, particularly at that time, sex, drugs, rock 'n roll; I spare you the details, if you’re guessing, you’ll probably be quite right. I settled down when I met my wife - the old story. Now I’m doing Yoga every day, a few weeks ago I gave up meat and fish and now I’m starting to get seriously interested in meditation. Maybe the time is right; Asanas for example: I found them boring ealier (did Kung Fu at the time) and today I love em.
Well.
There are some questions I have regarding these energies and since you’re the only one I ever met who claims to have the cylcle flowing, you might be able to provide some insights: Is the Kundalini-energy of Yoga the same as Qi? I once read, that the orbit would be a further development of the Kundalini-practice, where one wants to have the energy rising from Muladhara Chakra to the top of the head. To just have it rising, so it said, would be dangerous and could cause all sorts of problems, including insanity and death. The orbit would be like a pressure relief valve so the energy cannot pile up. Would you say that’s the case? It makes sense and therefore seems to be a better approach.
But: The Kundalini-theory says, that you’re “there” once the energy has risen to Sahasrara Chakra, so the orbit could as well be a whole different thing, maybe something like the Nadis? Prana equals Qi unequals Kundalini-power? One’s also supposed to start the orbit from the Dan-Tien in the belly, that also differs from the Kundalini-theory.
@ Quetzalcoatl
I am rarely, if ever, bothered by something on the yoga forum here. And those who know me well would laugh at any assertion that if something were bothering me I’d need to be prompted to speak my mind. But thank you for asking. I appreciate your concern.
I contrasted two concepts so that the entire group reading this thread - and the others - may have benefit and clarity.
Hi InnerAthlete:
@ Quetzalcoatl
I am rarely, if ever, bothered by something on the yoga forum here. And those who know me well would laugh at any assertion that if something were bothering me I’d need to be prompted to speak my mind. But thank you for asking. I appreciate your concern.
Most excellent; I’m glad we’re good.
I think you just edited this in or I missed it:
I contrasted two concepts so that the entire group reading this thread - and the others - may have benefit and clarity.
What concepts are these?
Hi Sunyuting.
In my opinion, the sex energy is different than a yoga or meditation energy. If you have blockages, practice and stretch more.
Yes, will do.
Is Kundalini energy the same as Qi? Does it matter?
To me it does, because if it is, I can bring all I know about Qi Gong to Yoga.
What would you do with it if it was?
Treat the theories as two forms of the same thing.
What would you do with them if they were separate?
Treat them accordingly.
Also, could you show me the documented reports of people dying from kundalini or Qi.
No, I could not even show you what I had read about it. But I had read about problems with energies in several places. Are there none?
If you were my student I would tell you that you can spin your energy and you do not have blockages. I might even make fun of you for practicing qi gong while having sex. Just kidding. Ok, not really, I would have to make fun of you. I cant help it.
Be my guest.
I just feel they are different and I am not a sex therapist.
Dude, that was just a sidenote and I don’t need therapy.
As far as the orbit thing goes, do you understand your center. Forget Dan tien for a second, do you know your center? If you are standing straight up and you started to spin like a fan, your center is there. Walk in a orbit and spin like the earth. Go one way and then go the other. Its all there.
I can’t even follow you. Understand my center how? “Spin like the earth” how? What way, what other? What is “it all”?
I dont really want to speak on kundalini energy because my opinion seems to be unorthodox. I would tell you not to worry about dan tien or any of the points. Find your center and think of it like a your inner super nova. Be creative with your energy. You have no blockages and Rock and Roll is a gift.
But drugs aren’t and you seem to be quite amused about the sex-thingy. Do you think that any lifestyle works with practices we’re talking about? I must doubt that, or else Asanas, diet, ethical laws would make no sense and just waste tons of time.
You know your energy. You know yourself. So remember, if you really love to practice. Go for it. But relax, you dont have to practice qi gond while having sex. That is so funny.
You could also talk to Dr Ruth.
Yeah, I’m the n00b, all right. Please enlighten me: What’s so funny about it? Sexual energy has nothing to do with Qi/Kundalini? What is it then? It’s own stuff?
I googled “kundalini insanity death” (without “”) and found this statement for example:
It is said that kundalini opens new pathways in the nervous system; the pain associated with this apparently is due to the nervous system’s inability to immediately copy with the energy. Yogis assert that the body must be properly attuned for kundalini through yoga, and that a premature or explosive awakening can cause insanity or death.
I can link now! Buy /|46R4 online!!!1! :lol:
Found an interesting page about Kundalini and Qi, maybe others are interested too:
http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~keutzer/kundalini/kundalini-faq.html
I, though, must go now.
Hi Sunyuting.
The funny thing is you.
But what you find so amusing has not terribly much to do with me:
You must want sexy energy.
No. I noted the sexy thing when I was telling you, that no energy ever flew from a point A to a point B inside my body. The only exception occurs when I pull the semen up the spine, which, by the way, is not the daily practice you seem to imagine and I never did it in any other spirit than playing around. If you don’t know what I mean, try it and you’ll see (it also works with masturbation).
I dont know what you want me to tell you.
In context of the funny thing it is: Does this effect have anything to do with Kundalini Yoga or Qi Gong? My other questions are equally clear, no?
To me yoga is qi gong.
Thanks for your answer.
Different cultures may have different physical exercises, but its still practice with breath. Energy is in the creative mind. If you feel it is hurting you, stop doing it. For me, this is not the case. People assert many things, but dying from kundalini would be a sad way to go. If you feel it can kill you, why would you want to practice that? Do you like to play with rattlesnakes? I bet a rattlesnake bite would really open the nervous system pathways. No thanks.
Are there risks or are there none? If there are, it doesn’t mean one may not work with it. Cars are risky, even a pencil can get you killed.
Drugs are a gift. Ask any cancer survivor.
But Sunyuting: I was referring to the abuse of drugs like weed, booze and meaner stuff in a lifestyle that will make spiritual practices very difficult at best, and probably impossible. If it was not obvious, I’m sorry. Drugs aren’t a gift to those who abuse them, they destroy lifes by the billion.
All practices can be done with or without lifestyle, ethics, and laws. Its up to the person. We are all human. What is right for me, may not be right for you. But having ethics and good eating habits help. Do you have ethical problems?
Sure, don’t you? I thought everybody but the Buddhas do. And I was quite a bad boy “back then” and still haven’t managed to become a saint. For example did I make some questionable joke yesterday and it got me in trouble, so I must reflect my words and get distracted from more valuable things. Sucks. Doing unquestionably good things don’t do that, for example did I recently tell an old friend enthusiastically about my Asana-practice and yesterday he told me, he and his girl started their own. That’s great and makes me feel good and confident about myself and the practice.
And these are only minor things. It makes a huge difference wether one behaves candy or trashy. The trash will pull you away from what you want to yoke with, the candy will push you towards it.
The earth follows an orbit. Walk a circle, pick a diameter, and walk. As you walk, learn to spin on the circle either direction you want (the greatness is in the reversal). Just as the earth would rotate spinning on its axis. But you need to be aware of your center - the center of your body. Its all there - everything you need to get the answers you want. You can find the energy there.
Will try.
Noob? - I will have to cross reference
What do you want to do with sexual energy? You know you can use that energy to have kids right?
What??? I thought they’re delivered by those huge birds…
It seems that causes life, not insanity or death.
Sure. But I was talking about insanity and death in context of piling up Kundalini energy in the head, so why do you mix that up. A comment on the valve thing the orbit had been described in that text I read would be much more appreciated.
What do you want to do with breath energy? Will breathing kill you?
Depends on what you breath, doesn’t it.
What is your purpose for practice?
Health.
And what’s yours?
Hi Sunyuting,
I just think your questions are funny because, like I said, I feel the energies are different. I just feel the sexual energy practice if overrated. What I am trying to tell you is that, sexual energy is not my focus. And yes, I know what you mean. The Shaolin guys would drag rocks with their genitals, not something I care to do. My point is that you should find your purpose for dealing with sexual energy. Im good there but its not my focus.
as I said, I did that semen-up-the-spine for the fun of it, the bare feeling. And if you don’t know wether or how that energy is related to the Kundalini or the Qi: Just say “I don’t know”. It’s no shame.
Life is a learning process. If someone gets addicted to drugs, its the beginning of a learning process. And yes, sometimes the outcomes are not nice.
A valid viewpoint, but if my son got into drugs, I’d surely not handle it that way.
We all have problems and I love jokes, they make you think. If someone gets mad, oh well. Dont be afraid to reflect and learn, its good for you. And sometimes the trasy puts you right where you need to be, to give back. Candy is bad for your teeth, it rots them.
Look: When I’m doing something good, there is no need to reflect upon it. I can feel good, and that’s it. The good feeling also helps with anything I do, it relaxes me, opens my heart or whatever.
When I do something that bothers someone, I have to, unless I’m ignorant as a brick, question myself. I do not fear that, it’s simply distracting and unless the thing I did to bother that someone was highly important to me (which some joke isn’t), I “hurt” myself.
Yoga is the calming of the processes of the mind. Good things calm the mind, bad things trouble it. To have no trouble in the mind: Follow the ethical commandments of Yama and Niyama.
Very simple.
If you have a pile up of energy in the head, you may be storing creative energy. It may just want to be set free. You could also have a back problem. There can be many reasons for that. Im not a doctor.
Dude… lol
The value of orbit for me? The circle is in everthing. Which exact part of the text are you refering? I have been circle walking for years, its my meditation.
I don’t know what you’re talking about, and I always quote what I refer to.
I practice because I like to. Its beyond purpose.
To do something because one likes it is the most basic purpose. I eat candy because I like them, I have sex because I like it, etc. If you were beyond purpose, you would not have any “because” anymore. You’d be doing Wei Wu Wei, your practice would be as natural as breathing.
Sunyuting: Unless you surprise me, this was my final reply, our debate is going nowhere. Let’s do more Yoga instead. 
I have the same question as Q and after reading this thread I didn’t find the answer: that is what is exactly the reason for holding palms up. I also have tendency to hold them down. I feel then nice feeling of being connected with Earth, sort of lying on warm sphere. When I turn them up I don’t feel anything particular. Its just a feeling and I can drop it but it would be nice to know there is a particular reason - how holding palms up is important in context of the development.
Hello Pawel.
Three reasons;
- the anatomical position is the position in which the humerus or upper arm bone tends to remain “in-joint”.
- The brachial plexus and chest remain relaxed when the arms are in this position while supine.
- Energetically, palms up represents a receptivity to light, energy or shakti. Because of the stillness and nature of Savasana this is an appropriate time for such a position.
Hope this helps and is both clear and to the point.
gordon
Pawel,
Your hands on the inside has millions of nerve endings and when in shavasana (corpse pose) the purpose of the pose is to avoid unnecessary stimulus. As our hands are extremely sensitive to touch and stimulus it is advisable to turn the palms up during shavasana, but not manditory as I understood it from my teacher. So, by turning the palms up you help to quiet the activity of the motor neurons. Also facing the palms to the floor creates a closed off feeling which is also counterproductive to shavasana.
For myself in order to be able to turn my palms up, my arms need to be away from my body more that 45 degrees other wise they also keep turning around.
Hi Gordon, hi Pandara,
Thank you for clarification. That was what I was looking for. If its more anatomically natural and helps the aim of Shavasana then its clear reason for me.
Thanks!
Hello Q. I can offer a few suggested stretches/asanas that may help.
I work with a lot of executives who are on the computer a lot. When I first start working with them, I have them stand in front of a mirror in Tadasana and look at the hands. People with overstretched muscles in upper back (weak) and tight chest muscles (needing length) will have their hand to the front of their pelvis and the palms will be facing back. Very common for people hunched over a computer. You need to open the chest and strengthen the back.
Asanas:
- Stand in Tadasana, interlace fingers behind back, roll shoulders back and down. Do not lift arms. Lift upward with the heart (chest) and look toward ceiling. Hold several breaths.
- Shoulder blade squeezes. Try to keep shoulders still as you isolate the scapulae, squeezing them together. When you think you can’t do any more, then allow shoulders to move, squeezing even more. Do several times.
- Dhanurasana, bhujangasana, salabhasana, ustrasana are all chest openers that would be beneficial to you.
My students have found, when incorporating these daily into their practice, they are much more comfortable sitting in front of the computer and over time, their palms gradually face up in shavasana.
Best of luck!
Sometimes the human becomes lost in minutia.
Hands over the heart.
Hands to side.
Hands close.
What is comfortable is important. This is all.
Hi Pawel,
what is exactly the reason for holding palms up.
another note on why it is of relevance (for me) to have the palms facing up: When they face down, the ellbow joint-area is “pressing” on the ground uncomfortably. Stretch your right hand out with the palm facing down right now. If you touch your ellbow-joint area where it is facing down too (with your left hand obviously), you will feel a kinda ball-shaped bone-piece as the lower-most structure, which (I think) is the end of the humerus. If you look at this picture it should be the big round thingy on the inside of the left arm (on the right side of the image). This “Humral Medial epicondyle” will press into the ground and start hurting after a while. If you turn your palm up now, that structure will turn in (like on the image) and be - position-wise - replaced with the actual ellbow. That one becomes very flat with the arm stretched and won’t hurt. Probably also because it is used to some pressure and therefore less sensitive.
Awesome explanation, ain’t it. :lol: However, if you do Shavasana for longer periods, like 20, 30, 40 minutes, this bally bone-piece (“Humral Medial epicondyle”) will start bugging you even on two foamy-1.5cm-ultra-soft mats.
Hi lotusgirl,
thanks for your notes. I sometimes do your suggestions 1. and 2. like "intuitive", as they counter the messed up position on the computer. From 3., I only do Bhujangasana, probably it had helped me too. However, the problem has by now improved very much, mostly due to that downward-namaste-gesture-thing. I do that all the time now, for example when I'm working on the computer (besides that I have started to stand up and do a few Asanas now frequently, instead of actually sitting there for hours; I write, so it often happens that I forget my body, though).
Doing the downward gesture sitting on the computer, I will then push it further using the edge of the table, until the fingertips start pointing towards my body instead to the ground and slightly away (like the only do, when I do it without the support of the table). Very good. Also have I noticed further improvement when I started doing [Jatara Parivartanasana](http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=jatara parivartanasana). It is still the area of my body that is most problematic in Shavasana, but has become much better.
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Hi The Scales,
> Sometimes the human becomes lost in minutia.
>
> Hands over the heart.
>
> Hands to side.
>
> Hands close.
>
> What is comfortable is important. This is all.
Then why don't we spend as much time as we can curled up in bed smoking pot. In my experience, that is much more comfortable than sweating on the mat.Q
What is the Downward Namaste hand thingy? Is it similar to this: hands in namaste, keeping elbows straight, move arms out to R and then to L. Keeping hands in namaste, drop hand lower, bring them back up. Point fingers down, and then bring back up. I have several students with carpal tunnel and they love this sequence. Sounds like it might be similar. If not, explain more as maybe I can add it to the routine. Many thanks.Hi lotusgirl,
it works like this (had described it somewhere in this thread, therefore just refered to as -thingy):
You’re doing a regular Namaste, with the forearms parallel to the ground, forming a straight (horizontal) line. The hands are in a 90?-ancle, you press the palms together… on the bottom of the palm (= no need to press the fingers together). Then you’ll do an external rotation of the forearms which will have the hands moving away from the body, down and then towards the body again. The smallest fingers (“pinkies”?) might press against the chest then. The ellbows remain in the same spot all the time.
Sitting at the desk, you can use the edge of desk to support that movement. This is something that (I said it already) I now do frequently to counter the position of the hands when typing. When leaning forward a little, the hands can then rotate a bit more and point slightly towards the body; as well can you move the arms forward (should be extension in the shoulder-joint) to increase the possible range of the forearm-rotation. During an Asana-session, I do it all the time as well inbetween postures. Great results.
Thanks Q! Sounds like part of what my sequence is. So glad it has worked for you! Sorry to make you explain it again.