[QUOTE=thomas;42459]So you are saying one must abandon his faith first to really understand yoga, and not use the wisdom of his faith to judge it?[/QUOTE]
This OR that is a human need; true spirituality is inclusive, this AND that.
You’ve made a dogmatic statement about an aspect of “true spirituality.” Is this your own belief or is this an accepted doctrine of a particular faith, and if so, which faith(s)?
If someone believes in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savoir, the Door through which he will attain salvation and eternal life, then naturally he will look at anything, especially another belief system, from that perspective, and will EXclude those elements that are contrary to it.
No statement is dogmatic unless taken as one.
I follow Yogik way of taking a challenge of a hypothesis, then practicing, then experiencing and then embracing the new truth. I have experienced the limitations of human perception that demands to understand everything as this or that, here or there, “I” and everything-else and so on. We can’t relate with anything unless we put a label or define a context. Both labels and contexts are utterly subjective. And, also divisive.
I found spiritual pursuit uplifting. It deepens my understanding, extends my vision and sharpens my insight. Together they afford me a ‘big picture’ view of all phenomena. I see life pulsating in each object, big or small. It gives me courage to recognize other person as a human being and not as a Christian or a Hindu. Rather than the distinguishing details I tend to see the commonallity.
Profound knowledge always keeps hidden under simple words and mundane things. But they are symbols. “door”, “salvation”, “eternal life” etc are symbols that can be interpreted in many ways - verbatim or versatile. Taken at the face value their difference is magnified and can fuel endless debates. Taken in a profound sense, different symbols appear to flow different routes to ultimately merge in the same ocean. This is my experience.
No statement is dogmatic unless taken as one.
Not true. I can make dogmatic statements all day and they are still dogmatic whether or not you accept them.
I have experienced the limitations of human perception that demands to understand everything as this or that, here or there, “I” and everything-else and so on. We can’t relate with anything unless we put a label or define a context. Both labels and contexts are utterly subjective. And, also divisive.
What about adultery or monogomy? Abortion is good or it kills a baby? Jesus is God or he is not God? Joe is alive or Joe is dead? I should steal the money or I should not steal the money?
There are some things that are both/and and some that are either/or, and it is not divisive to discern the either/ors.
I see life pulsating in each object, big or small. It gives me courage to recognize other person as a human being and not as a Christian or a Hindu. Rather than the distinguishing details I tend to see the commonallity.
Now you’re being either/or yourself, and unnecessarily so. You can see a person as a Christian or a Hindu, and still see them as human beings.
Profound knowledge always keeps hidden under simple words and mundane things. But they are symbols. “door”, “salvation”, “eternal life” etc are symbols that can be interpreted in many ways - verbatim or versatile. Taken at the face value their difference is magnified and can fuel endless debates. Taken in a profound sense, different symbols appear to flow different routes to ultimately merge in the same ocean. This is my experience.
You see yoga as the be-all and end-all. The Christian cannot and does not see that since Jesus is the be-all and end-all.
If you knew Jesus, or believed as Christians do, you would understand why yoga must be judged in the light of Chrisitanity and not vise-versa.
Thank you all,
Yoga conversation is like ZEN questions and answers. Everybody taught me not the answer but where I am and why I have this question and how I can find answer within me. This is so new to me and I appreciate every one to show me the Yogi Way.
I think I’m struggling and worrying unnecessarily, and I definately need more practice as well as some study on spirituality.
Dear Suhas and Seeker33,
Thank you for your kind guide. You really showed me the way.
Any time, Queen.
Thomas,
In all sincerity, I consider this conversation running beyond exchange of useful ideas. I have nothing more to say. You win. Thanks.
[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;42519]Any time, Queen.
Thomas,
In all sincerity, I consider this conversation running beyond exchange of useful ideas. I have nothing more to say. You win. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
“Winning” wasn’t my objective, but I’ll take it, if there’s some kind of prize.
I would like to share the answer I found within myself, to show the gratitude to you all.
I think the source of my frustration was that I tried to go beyond my limitation. Like I have limit in yoga, I have limit in explaining yoga. I have to know my limitation and accept it.
If I tried to go beyond it and try to be a wise man who can tell the truth of yoga in one word, that’s where my frustration begins. So long as I did what I can do within my limitation, I don’t need to blame myself or feel frustrated even if I couldn’t help someone who might have needed help. And like somebody said, I should let it flow.
I can’t do bridge posture but I’m not frustrated because I know my limitation and I know I’m trying to overcome it.
What is important is knowing limitation while I try to overcome it by practicing yoga, listening to the body, asking for advice, and reading books.
Now I can do little better. “Yoga’s ultimate goal is enlightment. It’s about to silence the modifications of the mind. What many of us experience at the initial stage is that you feel the strength and joy of life, then gradually find out about the spirituality to follow. But if your interest was strictly physical improvement, yoga is open for those who want to use it that way. The benefit I expericenced are…”
Cheers!
[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;42500]No statement is dogmatic unless taken as one.
I follow Yogik way of taking a challenge of a hypothesis, then practicing, then experiencing and then embracing the new truth. I have experienced the limitations of human perception that demands to understand everything as this or that, here or there, “I” and everything-else and so on. We can’t relate with anything unless we put a label or define a context. Both labels and contexts are utterly subjective. And, also divisive.
I found spiritual pursuit uplifting. It deepens my understanding, extends my vision and sharpens my insight. Together they afford me a ‘big picture’ view of all phenomena. I see life pulsating in each object, big or small. It gives me courage to recognize other person as a human being and not as a Christian or a Hindu. Rather than the distinguishing details I tend to see the commonallity.
Profound knowledge always keeps hidden under simple words and mundane things. But they are symbols. “door”, “salvation”, “eternal life” etc are symbols that can be interpreted in many ways - verbatim or versatile. Taken at the face value their difference is magnified and can fuel endless debates. Taken in a profound sense, different symbols appear to flow different routes to ultimately merge in the same ocean. This is my experience.[/QUOTE]
Thankyou Suhas for sharing this