i am so glad that you knew i was laughing too…after i posted i was concerned it may have sounded otherwise. 
Yoga is divine union with the absolute. Sex is physical union, but it’s carnal. Yoga would help, but that would defeat it’s true purpose.
[QUOTE=b.shahvir;43308]Yoga is divine union with the absolute. Sex is physical union, but it’s carnal. Yoga would help, but that would defeat it’s true purpose.[/QUOTE]
The absolute includes the physical and the carnal. What benefits the part also benefits the whole.
People who do yoga for bodily health should not be looked down upon. In fact no one can deny that asanas have their first effect on body, they work through body!
My main objective of asanas(which I have not achieved yet) is to overcome the troubles of my body. Its later on I realise that my troubles have a root in my mind and it has to made a part of the package too.
In different paths concept of enlightenment is different. But I think in almost all of the cases it is most certainly a certain something which is the most highest something that can be experienced in this awful limitless creation. We ourselves are still at least a billion miles away from enlightenment. Lets be humble and forgiving.
Although one should not have any aversion from it, to simply transmit yoga according to the desires of the masses is not practical. Because naturally, the average person is simply interested in using the method in a way which is going to nourish one’s ego. Whether it is for the purpose of cultivating siddhis, clinging to the idea of enlightenment, or wanting simply to remain physically healthy, it amounts to the same. One remains in a deep unconsciousness, the same unconsciousness which continues manufacturing all of one’s sufferings. And our programming is such a stubborn force, that it will resist transformation at almost any cost.
If one is simply interested in health, there are a million other teachers who can provide such a thing, that is not my interest. My approach is very different, I will not even accept a disciple unless he has demonstrated some desire to come to know oneself, through and through.
@AmirMourad How do you do it? How do you accept a disciple?
Everything has multiple perspectives… You can look at anything and see from your angle.
So this guy thinks of Yoga as a way to improve such physical experience, the other guy sees yoga as a way to still the mind and be happy and then there is another person who looks yoga as a means to attain God/Realization.
Its all in the mind…
For example - When you see a Young & Beautiful Woman - Whats the first thought that comes to your mind? Do you see a Object to fulfil your desire, or a Daughter, or a Sister or a Mother or a Soul just like yours?
No need to answer this… Its a question to ourselves only and the answer tells us where we stand in terms of our evolution ( or devolution)…
Certainly everything can be seen from almost infinite number of angles and perspectives, all a finger pointing to the moon. But that does not mean that the expansion of consciousness is not a scientific phenomenon. This mind is a by product of thousands of years of evolution, and while every mind may express itself in unique ways, the basic mechanisms are the same. The very nature of man is such, that one is always seeking expansion beyond one’s present limitations. What has been called “enlightenment” is just part of the natural evolution of every mind, it is not something that one can pursue as a hobby project. Either one has awakened a fire in one’s belly for it, or one has yet to ignite it. If one has awakened a fire in one’s belly, then whether one does nothing or does something, the tendency to come to know oneself is almost inescapable. That is why, unless one comes to a communion with one’s true nature, one is always going to feel that something is lacking. The sense of it is so subtle, so vague, but it is absolutely certain that something is lacking. And because everything in existence is always in a state of flux, whatever one manages to achieve, it cannot provide anything more than temporary satisfaction. Not knowing what to do, one continues searching outwardly like an ox chasing it’s own tail in repetative cycles. If one has been living out of unconsciousness, it is inevitable. So it is possible to use something like yoga, or any number of spiritual sciences, as simply a method to provide therapy or general physical health. But one will quickly find that simply to be healthy is not enough.
Lostontheway,
It ordinarily happens spontaneously in the flash of a moment. When a Buddha sees into a Buddha, the encounter is always most intimate.
So feeling good with the union of another is bad ? No. Is it the ultimate union of self with universe ? Could be. Though yogi’s stereotypically seek union quietly and alone- there are no rules proscribing anything that comes from love. I had prostate cancer and I was single. I wasn’t ready for the celibacy. Fortunately, the good health yoga gives makes sex a good part of my and my Heidi’s life together. The prostate is the channel for life force going down and out procreatively. The ultimate goal of yoga is to send life force up. To do this requires a totally integrated nervous system. Viable sexual apparatus is part of a healthy body. Doing yoga for sex is like climbing stairs for the next step- nothing wrong in that. You might like the view from that step and want to stay awhile. Nothing wrong in that. Going faster than you should just makes life a blur. namaste
And of course sex is a great way to make babies.
And Babies are Life’s poetry while we are prose.
[QUOTE=TonyTamer;43384]So feeling good with the union of another is bad ? No. Is it the ultimate union of self with universe ? Could be. Though yogi’s stereotypically seek union quietly and alone- there are no rules proscribing anything that comes from love. I had prostate cancer and I was single. I wasn’t ready for the celibacy. Fortunately, the good health yoga gives makes sex a good part of my and my Heidi’s life together. The prostate is the channel for life force going down and out procreatively. The ultimate goal of yoga is to send life force up. To do this requires a totally integrated nervous system. Viable sexual apparatus is part of a healthy body. Doing yoga for sex is like climbing stairs for the next step- nothing wrong in that. You might like the view from that step and want to stay awhile. Nothing wrong in that. Going faster than you should just makes life a blur. namaste[/QUOTE]
Hey Tony - Glad to hear your cancer went away and you are healthy person and enjoying life now.
There is nothing wrong in enjoying life or sex…absolutely. You do yoga or any other exercises and get better physicaly. What you do with the body has nothing to do with Yoga. Thats your choice and your decision.
But if you are on a spiritual path then you think about conroling all your desires & indulgences of all items (including sex) . Yoga is one means of achieving a higher spiritual level. You may do meditation, prayers, devotion or total surrender to God.
But if thats not your path, then always any physical exercise or yoga will for sure make you a healthy body. Just one question we need to ask ourselves - What is the purpose of life or our bodies?
Is it only sex and buying things like crazy? Do we really enjoy sex that much or we have been told that Sex is good and hus we enjoy it - as in “Have we been programmed” to believe that sex is great, that shoping is relaxing, that drinking is healthy and that Living in Debt is he right thing to do?
Just asking these questions - because we need to question what are we doing and why. If you have clear and correct answers (which no one can challenge- becuase thats truth) than my friend you do how you feel in your heart - because thats Real.
Thanks, yoga is an exalted path whose goal is God-I’m in no hurry since I don’t think God is. I’m just a spiritual drip; drip, drip, dripping.
If its hatha yoga we are talking about then in my view the work shall start from the body. The starting point is the body. The body becomes a means, a tool for higher things. It becomes important that this tool be brought into a better condition than it already is. Therein comes the role of Yogasanas. It prepares the body, it strengthens it, nourishes it, fills it with more energy, cleans the blockages. Physical health is a natural product of Yogasana practice. Hatha yoga is such, it uses the body.
If we want to by pass the body and not want to include health in our itinerary we may as well choose other paths, for example bhakti marg. I am partially a follower of bhakti marg. But my heart keeps coming back to Yogasanas and pranayama for health reasons. My body needs these. Its a mess, it needs some tending.
As we all know mind is intimately connected with the body. Any practice that brings in peace in the nerves and other similar things affects the mind in a positive way.
I am not even sure if one can attain enlightenement following hatha yoga. In India hatha yogis have been known to have not reached the goal, and not rooted out effects of maya. The whole bhakti movement starting from 14th century to early 18th century stressed that ego can be dissolved only through love and devotion to God. Great saints like Kabir, Ravidass, Naamdev, Guru Nanak stressed that Love is the path. Not going into the specifics verses of all these saints stressed on humilty, complete surrender to God, looking upon God as all prevading in all universe creation and connecting with God as a person, as a lover, as a master, as a father, as a mother etc. They stressed upon the concept of Prasad or Grace and that enlightenment descends not through one’s efforts, but through Grace.
In modern times life of Sri Ramakrishna Paramhans (whose disciple was Swami Vivekananda) can be seen as an example of bhakti path.
Again I say humility is the key. The journey is long, and humility is the visa, please have compassion on lower beings like me who need health for now.
“I am not even sure if one can attain enlightenement following hatha yoga”
It is possible, although very rare. Because the whole emphasis of Hatha Yoga is centered around the body, it has no methods to come to a direct perception of the essential nature of mind. But because Hatha Yoga is concerned with awakening of the Kundalini, it is possible to spontaneously come to one’s awakening through the Kundalini entering into the Sahasrara, but it is a very rare phenomenon. Limited to asana’s, and pranayama, at the most it can only prepare a certain inner atmosphere which can then be useful for the work of meditation.
“The whole bhakti movement starting from 14th century to early 18th century stressed that ego can be dissolved only through love and devotion to God”
That is what the bhakhti’s claim, but it has been as rare that a man comes to his awakening through bhakhti yoga, as it has been the case with Hatha Yoga. In fact, most of the approaches of bhakhti help to solidify one’s sense of ego, through projecting “God” as an object of devotion. And that “God” is certain to be simply an aspect of one’s own mind, it is a figment of one’s imagination. The mind is such, that whatever one is identified with, that is precisely what is projected onto the scene. That is why a Christian, in his “mystical” experience, may experience a vision of Christ, the Hindu may see Krishna, the Buddhist may see Buddha. But the Buddhist is never going to see either Krishna or Christ, he has no space within him which is capable of manufacturing a Krishna or a Christ.
If authentic bhakhti is awakened in a disciple, the transformation is swift, but the problem is that it is very rare. Because surrender is not something that can be initiated as an effort of the mind, it has to arise as a force of it’s own. That requires one to dissolve one’s entanglement even in the very idea of “God”.
Once there was a yogi, Ramakrishna, who was immensely devoted to the Goddess Kali. If he would even see a mere glimpse of her in his mind, he would immediately fall into a great ecstasy. He himself was a Brahmin priest in a temple devoted to Kali. His devotion was tremendous, but the problem is that he could never go beyond the vision of Kali in his meditation. So he went to see his master, Totapuri ,and told him about the situation.
Totapuri said, “Next time you see Kali, just take a sword and drive it through her”.
Ramakrishna said, “Where am I going to find a sword ?”
Totapuri said, “From the same space that you have created Kali. As you have created Kali in your imagination, just ressurect a sword and drive it through her chest”.
Later Ramakrishna entered into meditation, saw the vision of Kali, become entangled in great ecstasy and forgot all about the sword. He then went to see Totapuri once again.
Totapuri sat with a piece of glass in his hands and said, “This seems to be a delicate situation. Ok, right now you meditate. When you see the image of Kali, give me the signal and I will do the rest”. Ramakrishna entered into meditation, saw Kali, and the master gave him a sharp cut onto the forehead. For the first time, Ramakrisha by passed the image and came to realization of his Buddhahood.
“The journey is long, and humility is the visa, please have compassion on lower beings like me who need health for now”
You are not a “lower being” or a “higher being”, inferior nor superior to anything else in existence. From first to last you have always been a Buddha.
I need to actually have a sex life before I can think about improving it.
Once there was a yogi, Ramakrishna, who was immensely devoted to the Goddess Kali. If he would even see a mere glimpse of her in his mind, he would immediately fall into a great ecstasy. He himself was a Brahmin priest in a temple devoted to Kali. His devotion was tremendous, but the problem is that he could never go beyond the vision of Kali in his meditation. So he went to see his master, Totapuri ,and told him about the situation.
Totapuri said, “Next time you see Kali, just take a sword and drive it through her”.
Ramakrishna said, “Where am I going to find a sword ?”
Totapuri said, “From the same space that you have created Kali. As you have created Kali in your imagination, just ressurect a sword and drive it through her chest”.
Later Ramakrishna entered into meditation, saw the vision of Kali, become entangled in great ecstasy and forgot all about the sword. He then went to see Totapuri once again.
Totapuri sat with a piece of glass in his hands and said, “This seems to be a delicate situation. Ok, right now you meditate. When you see the image of Kali, give me the signal and I will do the rest”. Ramakrishna entered into meditation, saw Kali, and the master gave him a sharp cut onto the forehead. For the first time, Ramakrisha by passed the image and came to realization of his Buddhahood.
You rightly pointed this out. He is the same Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa I mentioned earlier. Sri Ramakrishna, although he did attain Nirvikalpa Samadhi through the experience you mentioned, did stick to Kali worship the rest of his life. A Bhakta (as is usually understood) is not interested in Mukti as such. He is interested in Love of God, and he wants to remain at the feet of God, enjoying the his blissful state.
You are also right about it being rare. My personal belief is that enlightenment is always rare and all the paths are there just to take one to the edge of the place from where enlightenment begins.
Thank you for sharing this.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;43378]. But one will quickly find that simply to be healthy is not enough.[/QUOTE]
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hm… Im just thinking that what if everyone on the planet were physically and mentally healthy;)