maybe, Surya, you may be right…I will have to put it to the
test more thoroughly with Ishvara next time…xx
Im off for a shower, got up late, then off to my Mothers to do her paperwork etc…catch you later
[QUOTE=kareng;42249]You discover your true nature through simplicity Thomas…Tree of Knowledge Thomas, remember?..This is what Buddhism tries to accomplish, a mind that is at rest, not striving and desiring and grasping and complicating…Like a radio tuner, a little too far either side of the channel and you end up with interference.The interference being too much information churning around in your head.
What pleased Ishvara Surya was simplicity. Ishvara noticeably grew with it xx[/QUOTE]
It may be best at this point just to say…mu… and leave it there 
mu
Cant just say mu…the editor cant handle it, how can one expect anyone else to yulaw? hahahahahahahahahah
What I don’t understand about Buddhism is that there is no diety, yet a belief in reincarnation. How can such a thing be without a creator or supreme intelligence behind it all?
But there is no denial of a creator, either, is there? More of an agnosticism?
Even so, it seems there is much there that is of a religious nature, and I’m not understanding why anyone would want to disassociate Buddhism from religion.
Certainly it is not a neutral philosophy or science that could be practiced by a Christian. There is much that a Christian could appreciate, but I don’t see how he could practice it and remain a Christian, since there are elements of faith in Buddhism which contradict elements of faith in Christianity, which is another reason why it’s hard for me to see it as something other than a religion.
No Buddhism does not believe in reincarnation, the transmigration of the soul to another body after death. Buddhisms fundamental doctrine is Anatman, no soul or no self .
[QUOTE=kareng;42309]No Buddhism does not believe in reincarnation, the transmigration of the soul to another body after death. Buddhisms fundamental doctrine is Anatman, no soul or no self .[/QUOTE]
Buddhists don’t have much to look forward to, do they? 
Nirvana!
[QUOTE=lotusgirl;42318]Nirvana![/QUOTE]
What does this mean?
Nirvana is the supreme state free from suffering and individual existence. It is a state Buddhists refer to as “Enlightenment”. It is the ultimate goal of all Buddhists. The attainment of nirvana breaks the otherwise endless cycle of rebirth.
Now I know your going to say…rebirth what do they mean?
As long as karmic forces exist, there is rebirth, for beings are merely the visible manifestation of this invisible karmic force.
Death is the temporary end of this temporary phenomenon and so it is not the complete annihilation of this so-called being. The organic life has ceased, but the karmic force which started t has, not been destroyed. The karmic force remains undisturbed by the disintegration of the fleeting body, the passing away of the present dying thought-moment conditions a fresh consciousness to another birth.
Found this to explain rebirth in Buddhism
One way to explain rebirth is to think of all existence as one big ocean. An individual is a phenomenon of existence in the same way a wave is a phenomenon of ocean. A wave begins, moves across the surface of the water, then dissipates. While it exists, a wave is distinct from ocean yet is never separate from ocean. In the same way, that which is reborn is not the same person, yet is not separate from the same person.
Thomas, you raise a valid point on how the Buddhists have nothing to look forward to. One of the most common criticisms of Buddhism, which I have raised here in the past, is that it is nihilistic. It does not believe the self exists, but rather what exists is a momentary self that made up of the 5 skandas(elements, memories, sensations etc) that is extinguished every passing moment because the 5 skandas are in constant change. In fact according to Buddhism change is absolute. Nothing every remains the same. In other words there is no “you” The path of nirvana is for “you” to realise that there is no “you” by attaining complete void/nothingness and thereby the end of suffering.
Now read that carefully and you will find it is completely illogical. There is no you, then who is the “you” that gets nirvana? If the entire goal of the Buddhist is to attain attain absolute void and nothingness is that not the same as absolute death? Is Buddhism a death-religion? Depressing.
There is another problem in Buddhism. If there is no “you” but only a momentary you that ceases the next moment. Then the next “you” is not the old “you” So the old you has nothing to worry about it. It can commit the gravest of sins, and never have to face punishment, because it ceases to exist the next moment.
No Buddhist has ever been able to give me a logical answer to this problem. I once asked a Buddhist who had a husband who had a Masters in Philosophy whether the one who had the Masters in Philosophy was the same person as the one who worked for the degree, and if not, then the doctrine of no-self is wrong. She reacted in outrage that I had insulted her husband who had worked their ass off to get their degree. In other words, indirectly, she believed in the continuity of the one who worked for it and one who got it and therefore did not really believe the no-self doctrine.
No rational person can believe in the no-self doctrine because nobody can deny that they exist. This is the most indubitable fact of reality. It is not open to any doubt. Ones own existence is not a matter of knowledge which we know from something else, or infer, it is something which is self-evident. A “You” is required to know anything, to perceive, to do anything.
But somehow somebody took this completely illogical doctrine of no-self and made a religion out of it. It was not Buddha who taught this doctrine in fact, rather he taught something else, but Buddhists later interpreted it to mean “no self” and the errror has stuck ever since. Later, arose a sect of Buddhism known as Mahayana Buddhism(greater vehicle) that tried to put the error right and claimed to have the original teaching of Buddha where he said “Some fools believe I meant that the self does not exist at all, but what I really was saying was that the apparent self that we know is not the real self, the real self is transcendent and the ultimate state of being”
The Mahayana Buddhists and therefore much more intune with Hinduism and Gnosticism all of which contain the same doctrine that the apparent self is not the real self, the real self is transcendent.
I have looked at the original teachings of Buddha that the Buddhists have taken to mean “no self” and it is very clear to me he did not say that. Instead he said what is repeated in the Hindu scriptures, and that is, “The self is not this, and not that” He never said categorically, “The self does not exist”
Buddhists who believe in the no-self and void doctrine cannot escape the charged of nihilism and Buddhism being a death-religion.
Surya Says
[QUOTE]Thomas, you raise a valid point on how the Buddhists have nothing to look forward to. One of the most common criticisms of Buddhism, which I have raised here in the past, is that it is nihilistic.
[/QUOTE]
I did laugh at this …nothing to look forward to… except enlightenment
CORE…look 2 Box outlines!! but I had to put Surya says …:lol::lol:
[QUOTE=kareng;42309]No Buddhism does not believe in reincarnation, the transmigration of the soul to another body after death. Buddhisms fundamental doctrine is Anatman, no soul or no self .[/QUOTE]
Actually that is debatable depending on the sect…see 14th Dalai Lama.
[QUOTE=kareng;42350]Surya Says
I did laugh at this …nothing to look forward to… except enlightenment
[/QUOTE]
Me too.
Viewing Buddhism as nihilistic is a common mistake made by those that do not really understand what it is
In Buddhism is there hope of eternal happiness?
That something of the person lives on continuously and consciously from this earthly life to whatever state comes next. That there would be some for of communion with others who have done likewise.
[QUOTE=Yulaw;42351]Actually that is debatable depending on the sect…see 14th Dalai Lama.[/QUOTE]
yes I did have real trouble with this…in trying to explain it and gave up
can you direct me to the site at all? Please Yulaw xx
A good link that may help explain nihilism and why Buddhism is not nihilistic.
Thanks lotusgirl wil check it out
[QUOTE=kareng;42363]yes I did have real trouble with this…in trying to explain it and gave up
can you direct me to the site at all? Please Yulaw xx[/QUOTE]
Buddhism is not so much not believing in Reincarnation or Rebirth as it is in not believing in an eternal self (Eternal unchanging soul). There is no self that is separate form everything else (EEEK - scary similarity to quantum physics)
In the case of the Dali Lama it is a bit different however, he is a spiritual leader