one more thing…
Where people get wrong facts? Probably from other teachers, because someone thoughts that it is embarrassing to correct teacher in the class.
My grandfather told me not to sleep on the left side because I can smash my heart:) I slept 17 year on one side! Now I now that this is not truth and that sleeping on the left side is ok… but somewhere in my subconsciousness I would still prefer to sleep on the right side, since I afraid to pinch the heart with my ribs:))
[QUOTE=CityMonk;61293]1. I do not concerned to much about historical facts… thought Yoga Sutras was not written 5000 tears ago and neither was Hatha yoga pradipika. I could survive this one… not too important. [/quote]That is indeed wrong. Traditional Indian dates for patanjali are given for around 200 B.C. But the science of yoga already existed and goes back to Hiranyagarbha.
- “You should not drink cold water since it absorbs from the mouth right into the kidneys”. Wow! I could not hold myself here and exclaimed: REALLY!?..discussion resulted…
LOL :roll:
- Very harsh and incorrect pronunciation of yoga terms is not quite forgivable for “advanced” yoga teachers …the least fall I can see here - just a laziness to discover how to say correct… I always let my indian students to correct me - they know better!
Indian students will be able to pronounce it correctly, since they’ll have a better diction of the devnagri alphabet. In my opinion it is part of the teacher’s job to learn to pronounce the names correctly, there is no excuse for pramada.
- “I do not advise you to do basti kriya since it can tear the colon”.
Maybe if done correctly.
- "Christians tend to get sick more sick than hindus, because the body is considered holly in hinduism …"
This is quite a generalisations and not really true after the invention of modern medicine. But before modern medicine, Indians were able to ward of plagues of bacteria, because of their practice of ritual purity. Life expectancy was around a 100 years, while in the west it was around 30 years.
- “There are seven koshas”… I exclaimed: Oh, I missed something and i remember just five. I really thoughts that I missed something, because HE IS A TEACHER AND HE KNOWS BETTER!
he got mad at me because he thought that I trying to show off or something…
The taittiriya upanishad indeed speaks of five koshas. But B.K.S. Iyengar speaks of seven koshas. He also counts the chittamaya kosha and atmamaya koshas. These are indeed seperate from the other five koshas.
http://www.yarravilleyoga.com.au/htm/reading/reading-Iyengar-6.htm
http://www.iyengaryoga.in/be_a_sadhaka.html
- In general: getting information from ONE single source and manifest it as an ultimate truth…
- In general: trying to make something up when dont have an answer.
I think as a teacher one has to have a courage to admit that he got the info from just one source, or he possibly is incorrect and will find out more about it. One must have a courage to accept discussion in front of other students.
And yes, I like to challenge the teacher. What’s the point to stick with the person who does not possess knowledge?
It is better to admit that one doesn’t know, it shows that someone has integrity and a willingness to educate themselves further.
[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;61312]That is indeed wrong. Traditional Indian dates for patanjali are given for around 200 B.C. But the science of yoga already existed and goes back to Hiranyagarbha.
LOL :roll:
Indian students will be able to pronounce it correctly, since they’ll have a better diction of the devnagri alphabet. In my opinion it is part of the teacher’s job to learn to pronounce the names correctly, there is no excuse for pramada.
Maybe if done correctly.
This is quite a generalisations and not really true after the invention of modern medicine. But before modern medicine, Indians were able to ward of plagues of bacteria, because of their practice of ritual purity. Life expectancy was around a 100 years, while in the west it was around 30 years.
The taittiriya upanishad indeed speaks of five koshas. But B.K.S. Iyengar speaks of seven koshas. He also counts the chittamaya kosha and atmamaya koshas. These are indeed seperate from the other five koshas.
http://www.yarravilleyoga.com.au/htm/reading/reading-Iyengar-6.htm
http://www.iyengaryoga.in/be_a_sadhaka.html
It is better to admit that one doesn’t know, it shows that someone has integrity and a willingness to educate themselves further.[/QUOTE]
It is unusual in a Teacher Training Class. Usually such courses have well defined course texts/course material which are closely followed just to avoid individual interpretations. Perhaps you should have put in a bit more research into your choice of TTC schools. No Offence intended.
But the point still remains the same… should we correct a teacher when he or she spreads false info in class…well not rudely interrupt the class, but just wonder: oh…I have heard different info…lets figure out why…
I think as a teacher one has to have a courage to admit that he got the info from just one source, or he possibly is incorrect and will find out more about it. One must have a courage to accept discussion in front of other students.
And yes, I like to challenge the teacher. What’s the point to stick with the person who does not possess knowledge
[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;61312]Indian students will be able to pronounce it correctly, since they’ll have a better diction of the devnagri alphabet. In my opinion it is part of the teacher’s job to learn to pronounce the names correctly, there is no excuse for pramada. [/QUOTE]
I’m guessing you didn’t actually mean there is no excuse for joy (pramada, प्रमद) ,but instead meant there is no excuse for carelessness (pramaada, प्रमाद)
I wouldn’t normally correct someone else’s spelling especially of Devanagari spelled out in english but because of the nature of the post I couldn’t help myself:)
[QUOTE=LapsedSolipsist;62033]I’m guessing you didn’t actually mean there is no excuse for joy (pramada, प्रमद) ,but instead meant there is no excuse for carelessness (pramaada, प्रमाद)
I wouldn’t normally correct someone else’s spelling especially of Devanagari spelled out in english but because of the nature of the post I couldn’t help myself:)[/QUOTE]
oh…no, I’m not talking about such complicated things, but absolute mispronunciation of some yamas-niyamas… i remember one calling aparighata instead of aparigraha … not a bid g deal…but if one makes no research and effort in such minor things…maybe one is not competent in other important questions…
Sarva,
“That is indeed wrong. Traditional Indian dates for patanjali are given for around 200 B.C. But the science of yoga already existed and goes back to Hiranyagarbha”
More parroting of borrowed knowledge rather than speaking out of one’s own intelligence. One should understand that the kind of culture in which the yogic sciences blossomed was one which was tremendously symbolic and mythical, and not everything that is spoken of should be taken literally. If you really believe that “Shiva” has three heads with a third eye, or that the universe was created out of an egg, or that by practicing a certain technique you can become immortal in the body, then you are just being foolish.
When it has been spoken of “Hiranyagarbha” as being the origins of yoga, this should not be interpreted as a literal person, it is simply a symbol. The word Hiranyagarbha literally means the “golden egg”, and refers to the first phenomenon that had arisen out of the source of existence which gave birth to the expansion of the universe. If you come to a certain depth into your own practice, it is possible to experience this dimension directly, which brings forth tremendous insight both into oneself and the whole existence. Fundamentally -the “origin” of yoga lies in direct experience, it is a human discovery.
[QUOTE=LapsedSolipsist;62033]I’m guessing you didn’t actually mean there is no excuse for joy (pramada, प्रमद) ,but instead meant there is no excuse for carelessness (pramaada, प्रमाद)
I wouldn’t normally correct someone else’s spelling especially of Devanagari spelled out in english but because of the nature of the post I couldn’t help myself:)[/QUOTE]
Yes, you are right. There are no strict rules for devanagri conversion to roman, but pramaada would cause less confusion. In official transliteration scheme, it would be pramāda.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;62036]Sarva,
“That is indeed wrong. Traditional Indian dates for patanjali are given for around 200 B.C. But the science of yoga already existed and goes back to Hiranyagarbha”
More parroting of borrowed knowledge rather than speaking out of one’s own intelligence…[/QUOTE]Thank you for the ad hominem.
Hiranyagarbha was also the name of a rishi and according the Mahabharata, the oldest exponent of the yoga system. In the Mahabharata he is mentioned next to Kapila who was the oldest exponent of the Sankhya system. I am aware that the word Hiranyagarbha has many meanings, but here he is mentioned next to paramarshi Kapila as another rishi as the oldest exponent of ashtanga type yoga. My point was that patanjali is not the originator of the ashtanga system of yoga and that it goes back much further.
सांख्यस्य वक्ता कपिलः परमर्षिः स उच्यते।
हिरन्यगर्भो योगस्य वक्ता नान्यः पुरातनः॥ (Mahabharata)
I am not a yoga teacher but I love yoga and enjoy studying many aspects of it. There are times in class when a teacher uses the wrong sanskrit term for the asana. This makes me cringe and brings me away from my practice a bit especially if the term used is a completely different pose than the one she meant. I would never correct a teacher in that kind of setting. But maybe lightly bring it up after class… we all make mistakes. I understand that people have lives outside of yoga class and can’t devote extraordinary amounts of time to learning sanskrit. However, I think if your are a teacher you should not be teaching information you don’t have a firm grasp of. Much simpler to just use the english terms.
In regards to a teacher training class, I would have a very hard time with a teacher that tried to teach me things I knew to be wrong. I feel that it is extremely irresponsible to spread erroneous information.
[QUOTE=LapsedSolipsist;62041]
In regards to a teacher training class, I would have a very hard time with a teacher that tried to teach me things I knew to be wrong. I feel that it is extremely irresponsible to spread erroneous information.[/QUOTE]
Mos Yoga teachers in the west may not be familiar with sanskrit. But yes they should definitely make an effort to learn the name (even if they cant get the pronounciation right !:D)
[QUOTE=CityMonk;61175]Well… by the “teacher” I mean yoga teacher, instructors, etc… everyone who bring yoga to people in any form.
I ran it to situation at the yoga teaching camps when people (teachers) got completely wrong on definitions, purpose or contradiction of the mudras, purpose of the pose, inarticulate in dates and facts about yoga, making up staff about anatomy and physiology … Also, I went to the medical school and know quite a bit about human body… [U]I’m not talking about differences in traditions and schools, but when someone says absolute nonsense. [/U]
What would you do?[/QUOTE]
If the teachers at that school are wrong about that many things you should find another school and possibly put up a review about them on Yelp.com or some other site.
I generally do not like to interrupt speakers of any kind. I’ve been at lectures where mavens have done that. It irritates the audience who paid and traveled to hear the speaker, not the maven.
If a speaker is spreading a lot of misinformation the situation is different. As a fellow audience member I would appreciate being made aware of that, during the lecture, so I will not become mistaken in regards to the facts and the credibility of the speaker.
[QUOTE=CityMonk;61903]But the point still remains the same… should we correct a teacher when he or she spreads false info in class…well not rudely interrupt the class, but just wonder: oh…I have heard different info…lets figure out why…
I think as a teacher one has to have a courage to admit that he got the info from just one source, or he possibly is incorrect and will find out more about it. One must have a courage to accept discussion in front of other students.
And yes, I like to challenge the teacher. What’s the point to stick with the person who does not possess knowledge[/QUOTE]
Then the teacher is no teacher right ? So where is the question of not correcting him ? May I point out that in the traditional Gurukool system , debates were actively encouraged ? But then teachers were knowledgeable. It is this new fad of one month TTC that is creating instant teachers. What can you expect ?
Sarvamangalamangala sorry that you think all yoga teachers have a big ego… i can assure you that is not true. I have recently qualified and i feel very humble and would be the first to admit that there are many things i do not know and i would be very clear with my students about that. My own teachers are very humble, i wonder who you have been learning with, i would suggest finding other yoga teachers then!!
I would however find it quite inappropriate if people challenged me in class, although ofcourse it would depend on the manner in which it was done. Please be kind and compassionate towards your teacher who is constantly learning as you are and tell them after class. It may have been an innocent mistake or oversight. We all make mistakes and there is never an excuse to try and humiliate someone because we think we know more, maybe we do, lets be gentle here though!8)
Be aware of any arrogant and/or humble persons, the former usually ignorant of ego but easily identifiable the later usually knowledgeable of ego but may be a master manipulator, detection difficult.
All human beings have ego and yoga teachers are human beings. Therefore yoga teachers have ego. Now the size and manifestation of that ego is certainly varied and likewise up for debate.
There are methods for transforming the ego AND there are methods for aggrandizing it. It seems more than obvious to say that yoga should only contain the former, though from looking around at our current context it is apparent that the latter is also included in what some call “yoga”.
There is, of course the dark shadow. And as Ray points out this is often easy to identify due to outward manifestations of greed, lust, craving, stealing et al. And there is the white shadow, the veneer of spirituality. The behavior that is “good” because “I am being seen” and want to be recognized as saintly.
The person who is loud at the front of the class and the person who is hiding in the shadows at the back, both of these are ego manifestations. The teacher who is loud and aggressive and the teacher who claims to have evolved, both of these are ego manifestations.
That is not to say yoga teachers can’t be humble. It is merely to point out that false humility is often a more slippery slope than real aggression.
"Be aware of any arrogant and/or humble persons, the former usually ignorant of ego but easily identifiable the later usually knowledgeable of ego but may be a master manipulator, detection difficult. "
interesting point, but the words “usually” and “may” mean this isnt always the case and whilst we can be aware of the above point we must not assume it. in my experience some of my teachers show genuine humility and i dont need to be suspicious/cynical of that after so long being with them. By the way, weren’t many of the great spiritual masters known for their humility? are we to assume they too are master manipulators?
[QUOTE=anula;63025]"interesting point, but the words “usually” and “may” mean this isnt always the case and whilst we can be aware of the above point we must not assume it. in my experience some of my teachers show genuine humility and i dont need to be suspicious/cynical of that after so long being with them. By the way, weren’t many of the great spiritual masters known for their humility? are we to assume they too are master manipulators?[/QUOTE]
You view “suspicious/cynical” as negatives? It makes no difference if you detect humbleness, arrogance or anything in between since methodology in the yogic sciences never ask mindless acceptance rather question, ponder, challenge, contemplate, examine and experience from all angles until the layers have been peeled away to the core truth for oneself.
just go to a different teacher. there are milliions of “yoga” teachers out there today
First thought: why would one take a class where the teacher is an amateur ?
Answer: if one wants to show, and express one’s superiority.
Second thought: can we be always sure that what we think to know, is actually true ?
Socrates comes to my mind … who said, his only wisdom is that he is aware that he knows nothing.
Lao-Ce said: that who thinks he knows, he’s a very sick man.
Conclusion: don’t waste time with dilettants, find a real target. Confront a real master. In my experience a real master will teach you crazy things, things you’d never thought about, things who seem alien and absolutley opposite to common sense. If you want to reach the unknown, you gotta take several leaps of faith. Given that you are in a hurry. Of course there are easier, more walkabale paths. But if you have the strenght to jump, why not use it.
Keep your critical attitude for these occasions, you are going to need it. Not that you’d have a chance … but it can be fun. Think of Kill Bills Uma Thurman. 