Is it appropriate to correct or add to what teacher is saying in class?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#18

[QUOTE=LapsedSolipsist;62033]I’m guessing you didn’t actually mean there is no excuse for joy (pramada, प्रमद) ,but instead meant there is no excuse for carelessness (pramaada, प्रमाद)

I wouldn’t normally correct someone else’s spelling especially of Devanagari spelled out in english but because of the nature of the post I couldn’t help myself:)[/QUOTE]

oh…no, I’m not talking about such complicated things, but absolute mispronunciation of some yamas-niyamas… i remember one calling aparighata instead of aparigraha … not a bid g deal…but if one makes no research and effort in such minor things…maybe one is not competent in other important questions…

#19

Sarva,

“That is indeed wrong. Traditional Indian dates for patanjali are given for around 200 B.C. But the science of yoga already existed and goes back to Hiranyagarbha”

More parroting of borrowed knowledge rather than speaking out of one’s own intelligence. One should understand that the kind of culture in which the yogic sciences blossomed was one which was tremendously symbolic and mythical, and not everything that is spoken of should be taken literally. If you really believe that “Shiva” has three heads with a third eye, or that the universe was created out of an egg, or that by practicing a certain technique you can become immortal in the body, then you are just being foolish.

When it has been spoken of “Hiranyagarbha” as being the origins of yoga, this should not be interpreted as a literal person, it is simply a symbol. The word Hiranyagarbha literally means the “golden egg”, and refers to the first phenomenon that had arisen out of the source of existence which gave birth to the expansion of the universe. If you come to a certain depth into your own practice, it is possible to experience this dimension directly, which brings forth tremendous insight both into oneself and the whole existence. Fundamentally -the “origin” of yoga lies in direct experience, it is a human discovery.

#20

[QUOTE=LapsedSolipsist;62033]I’m guessing you didn’t actually mean there is no excuse for joy (pramada, प्रमद) ,but instead meant there is no excuse for carelessness (pramaada, प्रमाद)

I wouldn’t normally correct someone else’s spelling especially of Devanagari spelled out in english but because of the nature of the post I couldn’t help myself:)[/QUOTE]
Yes, you are right. There are no strict rules for devanagri conversion to roman, but pramaada would cause less confusion. In official transliteration scheme, it would be pramāda.

#21

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;62036]Sarva,

“That is indeed wrong. Traditional Indian dates for patanjali are given for around 200 B.C. But the science of yoga already existed and goes back to Hiranyagarbha”

More parroting of borrowed knowledge rather than speaking out of one’s own intelligence…[/QUOTE]Thank you for the ad hominem.

Hiranyagarbha was also the name of a rishi and according the Mahabharata, the oldest exponent of the yoga system. In the Mahabharata he is mentioned next to Kapila who was the oldest exponent of the Sankhya system. I am aware that the word Hiranyagarbha has many meanings, but here he is mentioned next to paramarshi Kapila as another rishi as the oldest exponent of ashtanga type yoga. My point was that patanjali is not the originator of the ashtanga system of yoga and that it goes back much further.

सांख्यस्य वक्ता कपिलः परमर्षिः स उच्यते।
हिरन्यगर्भो योगस्य वक्ता नान्यः पुरातनः॥ (Mahabharata)

#22

I am not a yoga teacher but I love yoga and enjoy studying many aspects of it. There are times in class when a teacher uses the wrong sanskrit term for the asana. This makes me cringe and brings me away from my practice a bit especially if the term used is a completely different pose than the one she meant. I would never correct a teacher in that kind of setting. But maybe lightly bring it up after class… we all make mistakes. I understand that people have lives outside of yoga class and can’t devote extraordinary amounts of time to learning sanskrit. However, I think if your are a teacher you should not be teaching information you don’t have a firm grasp of. Much simpler to just use the english terms.

In regards to a teacher training class, I would have a very hard time with a teacher that tried to teach me things I knew to be wrong. I feel that it is extremely irresponsible to spread erroneous information.

#23

[QUOTE=LapsedSolipsist;62041]

In regards to a teacher training class, I would have a very hard time with a teacher that tried to teach me things I knew to be wrong. I feel that it is extremely irresponsible to spread erroneous information.[/QUOTE]

Mos Yoga teachers in the west may not be familiar with sanskrit. But yes they should definitely make an effort to learn the name (even if they cant get the pronounciation right !:D)

#24

[QUOTE=CityMonk;61175]Well… by the “teacher” I mean yoga teacher, instructors, etc… everyone who bring yoga to people in any form.

I ran it to situation at the yoga teaching camps when people (teachers) got completely wrong on definitions, purpose or contradiction of the mudras, purpose of the pose, inarticulate in dates and facts about yoga, making up staff about anatomy and physiology … Also, I went to the medical school and know quite a bit about human body… [U]I’m not talking about differences in traditions and schools, but when someone says absolute nonsense. [/U]

What would you do?[/QUOTE]

If the teachers at that school are wrong about that many things you should find another school and possibly put up a review about them on Yelp.com or some other site.

I generally do not like to interrupt speakers of any kind. I’ve been at lectures where mavens have done that. It irritates the audience who paid and traveled to hear the speaker, not the maven.

If a speaker is spreading a lot of misinformation the situation is different. As a fellow audience member I would appreciate being made aware of that, during the lecture, so I will not become mistaken in regards to the facts and the credibility of the speaker.

#25

[QUOTE=CityMonk;61903]But the point still remains the same… should we correct a teacher when he or she spreads false info in class…well not rudely interrupt the class, but just wonder: oh…I have heard different info…lets figure out why…

I think as a teacher one has to have a courage to admit that he got the info from just one source, or he possibly is incorrect and will find out more about it. One must have a courage to accept discussion in front of other students.

And yes, I like to challenge the teacher. What’s the point to stick with the person who does not possess knowledge[/QUOTE]

Then the teacher is no teacher right ? So where is the question of not correcting him ? May I point out that in the traditional Gurukool system , debates were actively encouraged ? But then teachers were knowledgeable. It is this new fad of one month TTC that is creating instant teachers. What can you expect ?

#26

Sarvamangalamangala sorry that you think all yoga teachers have a big ego… i can assure you that is not true. I have recently qualified and i feel very humble and would be the first to admit that there are many things i do not know and i would be very clear with my students about that. My own teachers are very humble, i wonder who you have been learning with, i would suggest finding other yoga teachers then!!

I would however find it quite inappropriate if people challenged me in class, although ofcourse it would depend on the manner in which it was done. Please be kind and compassionate towards your teacher who is constantly learning as you are and tell them after class. It may have been an innocent mistake or oversight. We all make mistakes and there is never an excuse to try and humiliate someone because we think we know more, maybe we do, lets be gentle here though!8)

#27

Be aware of any arrogant and/or humble persons, the former usually ignorant of ego but easily identifiable the later usually knowledgeable of ego but may be a master manipulator, detection difficult.

#28

All human beings have ego and yoga teachers are human beings. Therefore yoga teachers have ego. Now the size and manifestation of that ego is certainly varied and likewise up for debate.

There are methods for transforming the ego AND there are methods for aggrandizing it. It seems more than obvious to say that yoga should only contain the former, though from looking around at our current context it is apparent that the latter is also included in what some call “yoga”.

There is, of course the dark shadow. And as Ray points out this is often easy to identify due to outward manifestations of greed, lust, craving, stealing et al. And there is the white shadow, the veneer of spirituality. The behavior that is “good” because “I am being seen” and want to be recognized as saintly.

The person who is loud at the front of the class and the person who is hiding in the shadows at the back, both of these are ego manifestations. The teacher who is loud and aggressive and the teacher who claims to have evolved, both of these are ego manifestations.

That is not to say yoga teachers can’t be humble. It is merely to point out that false humility is often a more slippery slope than real aggression.

#29

"Be aware of any arrogant and/or humble persons, the former usually ignorant of ego but easily identifiable the later usually knowledgeable of ego but may be a master manipulator, detection difficult. "

interesting point, but the words “usually” and “may” mean this isnt always the case and whilst we can be aware of the above point we must not assume it. in my experience some of my teachers show genuine humility and i dont need to be suspicious/cynical of that after so long being with them. By the way, weren’t many of the great spiritual masters known for their humility? are we to assume they too are master manipulators?

#30

[QUOTE=anula;63025]"interesting point, but the words “usually” and “may” mean this isnt always the case and whilst we can be aware of the above point we must not assume it. in my experience some of my teachers show genuine humility and i dont need to be suspicious/cynical of that after so long being with them. By the way, weren’t many of the great spiritual masters known for their humility? are we to assume they too are master manipulators?[/QUOTE]

You view “suspicious/cynical” as negatives? It makes no difference if you detect humbleness, arrogance or anything in between since methodology in the yogic sciences never ask mindless acceptance rather question, ponder, challenge, contemplate, examine and experience from all angles until the layers have been peeled away to the core truth for oneself.

#31

just go to a different teacher. there are milliions of “yoga” teachers out there today

#32

First thought: why would one take a class where the teacher is an amateur ?

Answer: if one wants to show, and express one’s superiority.

Second thought: can we be always sure that what we think to know, is actually true ?
Socrates comes to my mind … who said, his only wisdom is that he is aware that he knows nothing.
Lao-Ce said: that who thinks he knows, he’s a very sick man.

Conclusion: don’t waste time with dilettants, find a real target. Confront a real master. In my experience a real master will teach you crazy things, things you’d never thought about, things who seem alien and absolutley opposite to common sense. If you want to reach the unknown, you gotta take several leaps of faith. Given that you are in a hurry. Of course there are easier, more walkabale paths. But if you have the strenght to jump, why not use it.

Keep your critical attitude for these occasions, you are going to need it. Not that you’d have a chance … but it can be fun. Think of Kill Bills Uma Thurman. :slight_smile:

#33

“Conclusion: don’t waste time with dilettants, find a real target. Confront a real master”

That would be good. But the question is, if you happen to encounter a master, how will you even be able to recognize him ? Does recognizing him mean, being impressed by him ? Or, does it mean that he fulfills your own standards as to how a master should be ? Or - does it mean that you are taken away by his charisma and presence ? Both charisma and a kind of presence do not make a master, and there are many people who have a magnetic personality who are not awakened. What are the signs that you have come into the presence of a master ? Certainly - you may be taken by his presence, but as we have said, presence itself is not indication of an awakened one, although an awakened one will certainly have a certain presence. The reality is - that one simply does not know. In the beginning, one can either confront a master with skepticism, or with trust. If one approaches with trust -then, you will have to take a chance with him, remain open and receptive but at the same time careful - not because you are being careful about the master, but about your own attitude towards the master. If one approaches with skepticism, then too, you will have to take a chance with him until some bell strikes a tune in your being. In either case - when you can move beyond trust and beyond skepticism - and finally see into the very consciousness of the master itself, then no trust or skepticism is needed - you will know.

#34

[QUOTE=CityMonk;61175]Well… by the “teacher” I mean yoga teacher, instructors, etc… everyone who bring yoga to people in any form.

I ran it to situation at the yoga teaching camps when people (techers) got completely wrong on definitions, purpose or contradiction of the mudras, purpose of the pose, inarticulate in dates and facts about yoga, making up staff about anatomy and physiology … Also, I went to the medical school and know quite a bit about human body… [U]I’m not talking about differences in traditions and schools, but when someone says absolute nonsense. [/U]

Is it appropriate to put my 5 cents in this kind of situation? I did few times and I can tell than those GURUS now hate me…should I do it again?

What would you do?[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

I think your 5 cents would be OK if it is just a teacher and some empirical knowledge that is the subject in question.

Even to a real spiritual Guru, one is permitted to ask questions, albeit in a prayer-like way. A real Guru in fact would take it as a service rendered by you, since it serves as an opportunity to voice divinity, which could be spiritually beneficial to many others.

regards, anand

#35

[QUOTE=Hubert;63210]First thought: why would one take a class where the teacher is an amateur ?

Answer: if one wants to show, and express one’s superiority.

[/QUOTE]

not necessarily… for example…teacher training one have to attend and one have paid for the entire seminar or teacher training course… (here in the states we need a stupid piece of paper to teach yoga)

and again people, you got me wrong… not to show the superiority… I’m not sure about answer sometimes neither… but I want to get the truth…or to get near to the truth… (again we can argue that everyone has a different truth)… but in some cases exposure to different theories can give one an enlightened answer… rather then dwell on one theory and deny the other theories…

#36

An appropriate place to consider the Eightfold Noble Path Buddhism?
Ask these questions before speaking. 1) Is it true? 2) Is it necessary? 3) Is it kind?
and I like is it an improvement on silence?
If we can answer all yes, then we are assured that we are speaking wisely.

Save comments for Q and A time so as to not disrupt the flow of the class.

If they are having a hard time remembering facts they may also be struggling remembering their lesson plan.

Approaching the instructor after class and asking where he got the information for statement A as you are interested and would they like you to send what you gather about the subject? There you have to opportunity to educate and not intimidate and maybe make a real change in getting the truth out there.

#37

Lord vasistha taught lord Ram that the fool should be listened to when he speaks truth and even thr creator bramha disregarded if he speaks lies.