[QUOTE=kareng;47991]I quite enjoy reading the Old Testament. Its often dramatic, captivating apocalyptic, mind bending…I used to listen to the stories when I was a child and think just that…they were stories, it never occurred to me to believe these stories.
The spiritual message I received was no different to the other major faiths, its the underlying theme of goodness you follow.[/QUOTE]
The weird thing about the OT is that if you really get down into the nitty gritty, every OT author almost seems to be talking about a different god (their characteristics & whatnot)
[QUOTE=theseeker;47976]Atheism and nihilism are not the same thing. And also, the very purpose of sociological research is to empirically prove the assumptions you are making here. Even though you might think that a study like that would be “laughably unnecessary”, you might actually be surprised by the results - we will not know until we conduct the study.[/QUOTE]
No, I was not talking about the beliefs of atheists. I was talking about their personality. Many atheists are open minded and don’t care about other’s beliefs, so long as it doesn’t intrude with their own lives.
I know that. Nevertheless, we can still say with some levels of statistical confidence that this would indeed be the case. To what degree or extent however is something that we have to gain empirical evidence for, as you said.
[QUOTE=kareng;47991]I quite enjoy reading the Old Testament. Its often dramatic, captivating apocalyptic, mind bending…I used to listen to the stories when I was a child and think just that…they were stories, it never occurred to me to believe these stories.
The spiritual message I received was no different to the other major faiths, its the underlying theme of goodness you follow.[/QUOTE]
That would explain a lot. You grew up with stories like, “Then god, punished them and killed all their men, women and little children, nobody was spared, not a single person” and the moral of the story is… do not disobey god or his clergy men or the same will happen to you
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;48002]No, I was not talking about the beliefs of atheists. I was talking about their personality. Many atheists are open minded and don’t care about other’s beliefs, so long as it doesn’t intrude with their own lives.
I know that. Nevertheless, we can still say with some levels of statistical confidence that this would indeed be the case. To what degree or extent however is something that we have to gain empirical evidence for, as you said.[/QUOTE]
theseeker has a vailid point. We cannot just automatically make this assumption that atheists and Hindus would respond significantly differently to the Christians without actually conducting the the study. In sociology everything has to be proven with empirical research, even the most common sense things you expect.
However, I think empirical research is overrated and rational research underrated, if not completely neglected. There are many conclusions about the world that can be reached by just pure reasoning. In the case of Hindus we find that Hinduism has been tolerant of other faiths since time immemorial and even today you can find how much the Hindu community mixes with the West and adops many Western elements in their culture. This tendency towards syncreitism has always been there in Hinduism. Hinduism is a dynamic religion. So I am more than confident on a similar study Hindus would not display the same level of intolerance Christians have.
[QUOTE=oak333;48026]Other scriptures too demand bad things. Eg in Hinduism there was the custom of SATI. When the husband died, the wife had to be burned too:
In other religions, human sacrifices were requested:
If you actually had reliable sources, you would know that the Sati practice was very uncommon and infrequent prior to Mughal rule. It varied from region to region, from village to village. The word sati does not even mean that. There is little religious justification for Sati in Hindu scriptures. There is a story in which a woman threw herself in the funeral pyre out of devotion to her husband, but the actual moral of the entire story (in which that event was just that, an event) was that all Gods are manifestations of the Divine.
During the Muslim Mughal rule however, Sati, as a practice of burning the wife at the funeral pyre of the husband, became more common. You see, Abrahamics are very lustful and barbarian in nature. They rape the wives of the men they kill. So my ancestors, the Rajputs, who took the brunt of Islamic invasions into India, were the main ones to practice this. The wives were willing to do this anyway. If I was a wife of a warrior, I would do it too, rather than get raped by a Muslim who wants to have me as a sex slave for the rest of his life.
During Christian British rule, the Sati practice started to increase. You see, your Christian brethren trashed up our nation so much that many people became poor and started to despair of ever having a good future. Efforts by Hindu groups to ban this practice were successful in various regions, because they told the people in power to do so (the British).
Now in Christianity, I hear there are a few practices that you might take interest in.
Burn the Witches!
Burn the Heretics!
Kill the Pagans!
"The prudence, fortitude, military discipline, labors, perilous
navigations, and battles of the Spaniards?vassals of the most invincible
Emperor of the Roman Catholic Empire, our natural King and Lord?will
cause joy to the faithful and terror to the infidels. For this reason, and for
the glory of God our Lord and for the service of the Catholic Imperial
Majesty, it has seemed good to me to write this narrative, and to send it to
Your Majesty, that all may have a knowledge of what is here related. It will
be to the glory of God, because they have conquered and brought to our holy
Catholic Faith so vast a number of heathens, aided by His holy guidance.
It will be to the honor of our Emperor because, by reason of his great power
and good fortune, such events happened in his time. It will give joy to the
faithful that such battles have been won, such provinces discovered and
conquered, such riches brought home for the King and for themselves; and
that such terror has been spread among the infidels, such admiration excited
in all mankind.
"For when, either in ancient or modern times, have such great exploits
been achieved by so few against so many, over so many climes, across so
many seas, over such distances by land, to subdue the unseen and
unknown? Whose deeds can be compared with those of Spain? Our
Spaniards, being few in number, never having more than 200 or 300 men
together, and sometimes only 100 and even fewer, have, in our times,
conquered more territory than has ever been known before, or than all the
faithful and infidel princess possess. I will only write, at present, of what
befell in the conquest, and I will not write much, in order to avoid prolixity.
"Governor Pizarro wished to obtain intelligence from some Indians
who had come from Cajamarca, so he had them tortured. They confessed
that they had heard that Atahuallpa was waiting for the Governor at
Cajamarca. The Governor then ordered us to advance. On reaching the
entrance to Cajamarca, we saw the camp of Atahuallpa at a distance of a
league, in the skirts of the mountains. The Indians' camp looked like a
very beautiful city. They had so many tents that we were all filled with
great apprehension. Until then, we had never seen anything like this in the
Indies. It filled all our Spaniards with fear and confusion. But we could
not show any fear or turn back, for if the Indians had sensed any weakness m
us, even the Indians that we were bringing with us as guides would have
killed us. So we made a show of good spirits, and after carefully
observing the town and the tents, we descended into the valley and
entered Cajamarca.
""We talked a lot among ourselves about what to do. All of us were full
of fear, because we were so few in number and we had penetrated so far
into a land where we could not hope to receive reinforcements. We all met
with the Governor to debate what we should undertake the next day. Few of
us slept that night, and we kept watch in the square of Cajamarca,
looking at the campfires of the Indian army. It was a frightening sight.
Most of the campfires were on a hillside and so close to each other that it
looked like the sky brightly studded with stars. There was no distinction
that night between the mighty and the lowly, or between foot soldiers and
horsemen. Everyone carried out sentry duty fully armed. So too did the
good old Governor, who went about encouraging his men. The Governor's
brother Hernando Pizarro estimated the number of Indian soldiers there at
40,000, but he was telling a lie just to encourage us, for there were
actually more than 80,000 Indians.
"On the next morning a messenger from Atahuallpa arrived, and the
Governor said to him, 'Tell your lord to come when and how he pleases,
and that, in what way soever he may come I will receive him as a friend
and brother. I pray that he may come quickly, for I desire to see him. No
harm or insult will befall him.'
"The Governor concealed his troops around the square at Cajamarca,
dividing the cavalry into two portions of which he gave the command of
one to his brother Hernando Pizarro and the command of the other to
Hernando de Soto. In like manner he divided the infantry, he himself taking
one part and giving the other to his brother Juan Pizarro. At the same time,
he ordered Pedro de Candia with two or three infantrymen to go with
trumpets to a small fort in the plaza and to station themselves there with a
small piece of artillery. When all the Indians, and Atahuallpa with them,
had entered the Plaza, the Governor would give a signal to Candia and his
men, after which they should start firing the gun, and the trumpets should
sound, and at the sound of the trumpets the cavalry should dash out of the
large court where they were waiting hidden in readiness.
"At noon Atahuallpa began to draw up his men and to approach. Soon
we saw the entire plain full of Indians, halting periodically to wait for
more Indians who kept filing out of the camp behind them. They kept
filling out in separate detachments into the afternoon.
The front detachments were now close to our camp, and still more troops kept issuing
from the camp of the Indians. In front of Atahuallpa went 2,000 Indians
who swept the road ahead of him, and these were followed by the
warriors, half of whom were marching in the fields on one side of him and
half on the other side.
"First came a squadron of Indians dressed in clothes of different colors,
like a chessboard. They advanced, removing the straws from the ground
and sweeping the road. Next came three squadrons in different dresses,
dancing and singing. Then came a number of men with armor, large metal
plates, and crowns of gold and silver. So great was the amount of furniture of
gold and silver which they bore, that it was a marvel to observe how the
sun glinted upon it. Among them came the figure of Atahuallpa in a very
fine litter with the ends of its timbers covered in silver. Eighty lords carried
him on their shoulders, all wearing a very rich blue livery. Atahuallpa
himself was very richly dressed, with his crown on his head and a collar of
large emeralds around his neck. He sat on a small stool with a rich saddle
cushion resting on his litter. The litter was lined with parrot feathers of
many colors and decorated with plates of gold and silver.
"Behind Atahuallpa came two other litters and two hammocks, in
which were some high chiefs, then several squadrons of Indians with
crowns of gold and silver. These Indian squadrons began to enter the plaza to
the accompaniment of great songs, and thus entering they occupied every
part of the plaza. In the meantime all of us Spaniards were waiting ready,
hidden in a courtyard, full of fear. Many of us urinated without noticing
it, out of sheer terror. On reaching the center of the plaza, Atahuallpa
remained in his litter on high, while his troops continued to file in behind
him.
"Governor Pizarro now sent Friar Vicente de Valverde to go speak to
Atahuallpa, and to require Atahuallpa in the name of God and of the King
of Spain that Atahuallpa subject himself to the law of our Lord Jesus
Christ and to the service of His Majesty the King of Spain. Advancing with a
cross in one hand and the Bible in the other hand, and going among the
Indian troops up to the place where Atahuallpa was, the Friar thus
addressed him: 'I am a Priest of God, and I teach Christians the things of
God, and in like manner I come to teach you. What I teach is that which
God says to us in this Book. Therefore, on the part of God and of the
Christians, I beseech you to be their friend, for such is God's will, and it
will be for your good.'
"Atahuallpa asked for the Book, that he might look at it, and the Friar
gave it to him closed. Atahuallpa did not know how to open the Book,
and the Friar was extending his arm to do so, when Atahuallpa, in great
anger, gave him a blow on the arm, not wishing that it should be opened.
Then he opened it himself, and, without any astonishment at the letters
and paper he threw it away from him five or six paces, his face a deep
crimson.
"The Friar returned to Pizarro, shouting, 'Come out! Come out,
Christians! Come at these enemy dogs who reject the things of God. That
tyrant has thrown my book of holy law to the ground! Did you not see
what happened? Why remain polite and servile toward this over-proud
dog when the plains are full of Indians? March out against him, for I
absolve you!'
"The governor then gave the signal to Candia, who began to fire off the
guns. At the same time the trumpets were sounded, and the armored Spanish
troops, both cavalry and infantry, sallied forth out of their hiding places
straight into the mass of unarmed Indians crowding the square, giving
the Spanish battle cry, 'Santiago!' We had placed rattles on the horses to
terrify the Indians. The booming of the guns, the blowing of the trumpets,
and the rattles on the horses threw the Indians into panicked confusion.
The Spaniards fell upon them and began to cut them to pieces.
The Indians were so filled with fear that they climbed on top of one another,
formed mounds, and suffocated each other. Since they were unarmed,
they were attacked without danger to any Christian.
The cavalry rode them down, killing and wounding, and following in pursuit. The infantry made
so good an assault on those that remained that in a short time most of them
were put to the sword.
"The Governor himself took his sword and dagger, entered the thick of
the Indians with the Spaniards who were with him, and with great bravery
reached Atahuallpa's litter. He fearlessly grabbed Atahuallpa's left arm
and shouted 'Santiago!,' but he could not pull Atahuallpa out of his litter
because it was held up high. Although we killed the Indians who held the
litter, others at once took their places and held it aloft, and in this manner
we spent a long time in overcoming and killing Indians. Finally seven or
eight Spaniards on horseback spurred on their horses, rushed upon the
litter from one side, and with great effort they heaved it over on its side. In
that way Atahuallpa was captured, and the Governor took Atahuallpa
to his lodging. The Indians carrying the litter, and those escorting
Ata-huallpa, never abandoned him: all died around him.
"The panic-stricken Indians remaining in the square, terrified at the
firing of the guns and at the horses?something they had never seen?tried
to flee from the square by knocking down a stretch of wall and running
out onto the plain outside. Our cavalry jumped the broken wall and
charged into the plain, shouting, 'Chase those with the fancy clothes!
Don't let any escape! Spear them!' All of the other Indian soldiers whom
Atahuallpa had brought were a mile from Cajamarca ready for battle, but
not one made a move, and during all this not one Indian raised a weapon
against a Spaniard. When the squadrons of Indians who had remained in
the plain outside the town saw the other Indians fleeing and shouting, most of
them too panicked and fled. It was an astonishing sight, for the whole
valley for 15 or 20 miles was completely filled with Indians. Night had
already fallen, and our cavalry were continuing to spear Indians in the
fields, when we heard a trumpet calling for us to reassemble at camp.
"If night had not come on, few out of the more than 40,000 Indian
troops would have been left alive. Six or seven thousand Indians lay dead,
and many more had their arms cut off and other wounds. Atahuallpa himself
admitted that we had killed 7,000 of his men in that battle. The man killed
in one of the litters was his minister, the lord of Chincha, of whom he was
very fond. All those Indians who bore Atahuallpa's litter appeared to be high
chiefs and councillors. They were all killed, as well as those Indians who
were carried in the other litters and hammocks. The lord of Cajamarca was
also killed, and others, but their numbers were so great that they could not
be counted, for all who came in attendance on Atahuallpa were great
lords. It was extraordinary to see so powerful a ruler captured in so short a
time, when he had come with such a mighty army. Truly, it was not
accomplished by our own forces, for there were so few of us. It was by the
grace of God, which is great.
"Atahuallpa's robes had been torn off when the Spaniards pulled him
out of his litter. The Governor ordered clothes to be brought to him, and
when Atahuallpa was dressed, the Governor ordered Atahuallpa to sit
near him and soothed his rage and agitation at finding himself so quickly
fallen from his high estate. The Governor said to Atahuallpa, 'Do not take it
as an insult that you have been defeated and taken prisoner, for with the
Christians who come with me, though so few in number, I have conquered
greater kingdoms than yours, and have defeated other more
powerful lords than you, imposing upon them the dominion of the Emperor,
whose vassal I am, and who is King of Spain and of the universal world. We
come to conquer this land by his command, that all may come to a
knowledge of God and of His Holy Catholic Faith; and by reason of our
good mission, God, the Creator of heaven and earth and of all things in
them, permits this, in order that you may know Him and come out from the
bestial and diabolical life that you lead. It is for this reason that we, being so
few in number, subjugate that vast host. When you have seen the errors
in which you live, you will understand the good that we have done you by
coming to your land by order of his Majesty the King of Spain. Our Lord
permitted that your pride should be brought low and that no Indian
should be able to offend a Christian.' "
Kill the Heretics!
The World is Flat and at the Center of the Universe!
Convert the Pagans by any Means!
Kill the Jews!
?I have been attacked because of my handling of the Jewish question. The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc., because it recognized the Jews for what they were. In the epoch of liberalism the danger was no longer recognized. I am moving back toward the time in which a fifteen-hundred-year-long tradition was implemented. I do not set race over religion, but I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the Church, and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions.? - Our dear Christian, Hitler
And so much more! But ladies and gentlemen, you will have to wait for the next installment to find out!
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;48030]If you actually had reliable sources, you would know that the Sati practice was very uncommon and infrequent prior to Mughal rule. It varied from region to region, from village to village. The word sati does not even mean that. There is little religious justification for Sati in Hindu scriptures…[/QUOTE]
So, you expect the justification for Hindu atrocities to come from ONLY Hindu scriptures, but the evidence for your alleged Christian atrocities can come from any source? Even Wiki? :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48015]theseeker has a vailid point. We cannot just automatically make this assumption that atheists and Hindus would respond significantly differently to the Christians without actually conducting the the study. In sociology everything has to be proven with empirical research, even the most common sense things you expect.
However, I think empirical research is overrated and rational research underrated, if not completely neglected. There are many conclusions about the world that can be reached by just pure reasoning. In the case of Hindus we find that Hinduism has been tolerant of other faiths since time immemorial and even today you can find how much the Hindu community mixes with the West and adops many Western elements in their culture. This tendency towards syncreitism has always been there in Hinduism. Hinduism is a dynamic religion. So I am more than confident on a similar study Hindus would not display the same level of intolerance Christians have.[/QUOTE]
That is precisely the point I was trying to convey.
The next installment of our series will have to wait!
You see, finding unreliable sources and using those to characterize the religion in general, in the manner of Oak - I mean, missionary666 is quiet an extensive task. But do not despair my faithful readers! “Information” is churned out on the internet daily! I am sure more will come along shortly!
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;48030]If you actually had reliable sources, you would know that the Sati practice was very uncommon and infrequent prior to Mughal rule. It varied from region to region, from village to village. The word sati does not even mean that. There is little religious justification for Sati in Hindu scriptures. There is a story in which a woman threw herself in the funeral pyre out of devotion to her husband, but the actual moral of the entire story (in which that event was just that, an event) was that all Gods are manifestations of the Divine.
During the Muslim Mughal rule however, Sati, as a practice of burning the wife at the funeral pyre of the husband, became more common. You see, Abrahamics are very lustful and barbarian in nature. They rape the wives of the men they kill. So my ancestors, the Rajputs, who took the brunt of Islamic invasions into India, were the main ones to practice this. The wives were willing to do this anyway. If I was a wife of a warrior, I would do it too, rather than get raped by a Muslim who wants to have me as a sex slave for the rest of his life.
During Christian British rule, the Sati practice started to increase. You see, your Christian brethren trashed up our nation so much that many people became poor and started to despair of ever having a good future. Efforts by Hindu groups to ban this practice were successful in various regions, because they told the people in power to do so (the British).
Now in Christianity, I hear there are a few practices that you might take interest in.
Burn the Witches!
Burn the Heretics!
Kill the Pagans!
"The prudence, fortitude, military discipline, labors, perilous
navigations, and battles of the Spaniards?vassals of the most invincible
Emperor of the Roman Catholic Empire, our natural King and Lord?will
cause joy to the faithful and terror to the infidels. For this reason, and for
the glory of God our Lord and for the service of the Catholic Imperial
Majesty, it has seemed good to me to write this narrative, and to send it to
Your Majesty, that all may have a knowledge of what is here related. It will
be to the glory of God, because they have conquered and brought to our holy
Catholic Faith so vast a number of heathens, aided by His holy guidance.
It will be to the honor of our Emperor because, by reason of his great power
and good fortune, such events happened in his time. It will give joy to the
faithful that such battles have been won, such provinces discovered and
conquered, such riches brought home for the King and for themselves; and
that such terror has been spread among the infidels, such admiration excited
in all mankind.
"For when, either in ancient or modern times, have such great exploits
been achieved by so few against so many, over so many climes, across so
many seas, over such distances by land, to subdue the unseen and
unknown? Whose deeds can be compared with those of Spain? Our
Spaniards, being few in number, never having more than 200 or 300 men
together, and sometimes only 100 and even fewer, have, in our times,
conquered more territory than has ever been known before, or than all the
faithful and infidel princess possess. I will only write, at present, of what
befell in the conquest, and I will not write much, in order to avoid prolixity.
"Governor Pizarro wished to obtain intelligence from some Indians
who had come from Cajamarca, so he had them tortured. They confessed
that they had heard that Atahuallpa was waiting for the Governor at
Cajamarca. The Governor then ordered us to advance. On reaching the
entrance to Cajamarca, we saw the camp of Atahuallpa at a distance of a
league, in the skirts of the mountains. The Indians' camp looked like a
very beautiful city. They had so many tents that we were all filled with
great apprehension. Until then, we had never seen anything like this in the
Indies. It filled all our Spaniards with fear and confusion. But we could
not show any fear or turn back, for if the Indians had sensed any weakness m
us, even the Indians that we were bringing with us as guides would have
killed us. So we made a show of good spirits, and after carefully
observing the town and the tents, we descended into the valley and
entered Cajamarca.
""We talked a lot among ourselves about what to do. All of us were full
of fear, because we were so few in number and we had penetrated so far
into a land where we could not hope to receive reinforcements. We all met
with the Governor to debate what we should undertake the next day. Few of
us slept that night, and we kept watch in the square of Cajamarca,
looking at the campfires of the Indian army. It was a frightening sight.
Most of the campfires were on a hillside and so close to each other that it
looked like the sky brightly studded with stars. There was no distinction
that night between the mighty and the lowly, or between foot soldiers and
horsemen. Everyone carried out sentry duty fully armed. So too did the
good old Governor, who went about encouraging his men. The Governor's
brother Hernando Pizarro estimated the number of Indian soldiers there at
40,000, but he was telling a lie just to encourage us, for there were
actually more than 80,000 Indians.
"On the next morning a messenger from Atahuallpa arrived, and the
Governor said to him, 'Tell your lord to come when and how he pleases,
and that, in what way soever he may come I will receive him as a friend
and brother. I pray that he may come quickly, for I desire to see him. No
harm or insult will befall him.'
"The Governor concealed his troops around the square at Cajamarca,
dividing the cavalry into two portions of which he gave the command of
one to his brother Hernando Pizarro and the command of the other to
Hernando de Soto. In like manner he divided the infantry, he himself taking
one part and giving the other to his brother Juan Pizarro. At the same time,
he ordered Pedro de Candia with two or three infantrymen to go with
trumpets to a small fort in the plaza and to station themselves there with a
small piece of artillery. When all the Indians, and Atahuallpa with them,
had entered the Plaza, the Governor would give a signal to Candia and his
men, after which they should start firing the gun, and the trumpets should
sound, and at the sound of the trumpets the cavalry should dash out of the
large court where they were waiting hidden in readiness.
"At noon Atahuallpa began to draw up his men and to approach. Soon
we saw the entire plain full of Indians, halting periodically to wait for
more Indians who kept filing out of the camp behind them. They kept
filling out in separate detachments into the afternoon.
The front detachments were now close to our camp, and still more troops kept issuing
from the camp of the Indians. In front of Atahuallpa went 2,000 Indians
who swept the road ahead of him, and these were followed by the
warriors, half of whom were marching in the fields on one side of him and
half on the other side.
"First came a squadron of Indians dressed in clothes of different colors,
like a chessboard. They advanced, removing the straws from the ground
and sweeping the road. Next came three squadrons in different dresses,
dancing and singing. Then came a number of men with armor, large metal
plates, and crowns of gold and silver. So great was the amount of furniture of
gold and silver which they bore, that it was a marvel to observe how the
sun glinted upon it. Among them came the figure of Atahuallpa in a very
fine litter with the ends of its timbers covered in silver. Eighty lords carried
him on their shoulders, all wearing a very rich blue livery. Atahuallpa
himself was very richly dressed, with his crown on his head and a collar of
large emeralds around his neck. He sat on a small stool with a rich saddle
cushion resting on his litter. The litter was lined with parrot feathers of
many colors and decorated with plates of gold and silver.
"Behind Atahuallpa came two other litters and two hammocks, in
which were some high chiefs, then several squadrons of Indians with
crowns of gold and silver. These Indian squadrons began to enter the plaza to
the accompaniment of great songs, and thus entering they occupied every
part of the plaza. In the meantime all of us Spaniards were waiting ready,
hidden in a courtyard, full of fear. Many of us urinated without noticing
it, out of sheer terror. On reaching the center of the plaza, Atahuallpa
remained in his litter on high, while his troops continued to file in behind
him.
"Governor Pizarro now sent Friar Vicente de Valverde to go speak to
Atahuallpa, and to require Atahuallpa in the name of God and of the King
of Spain that Atahuallpa subject himself to the law of our Lord Jesus
Christ and to the service of His Majesty the King of Spain. Advancing with a
cross in one hand and the Bible in the other hand, and going among the
Indian troops up to the place where Atahuallpa was, the Friar thus
addressed him: 'I am a Priest of God, and I teach Christians the things of
God, and in like manner I come to teach you. What I teach is that which
God says to us in this Book. Therefore, on the part of God and of the
Christians, I beseech you to be their friend, for such is God's will, and it
will be for your good.'
"Atahuallpa asked for the Book, that he might look at it, and the Friar
gave it to him closed. Atahuallpa did not know how to open the Book,
and the Friar was extending his arm to do so, when Atahuallpa, in great
anger, gave him a blow on the arm, not wishing that it should be opened.
Then he opened it himself, and, without any astonishment at the letters
and paper he threw it away from him five or six paces, his face a deep
crimson.
"The Friar returned to Pizarro, shouting, 'Come out! Come out,
Christians! Come at these enemy dogs who reject the things of God. That
tyrant has thrown my book of holy law to the ground! Did you not see
what happened? Why remain polite and servile toward this over-proud
dog when the plains are full of Indians? March out against him, for I
absolve you!'
"The governor then gave the signal to Candia, who began to fire off the
guns. At the same time the trumpets were sounded, and the armored Spanish
troops, both cavalry and infantry, sallied forth out of their hiding places
straight into the mass of unarmed Indians crowding the square, giving
the Spanish battle cry, 'Santiago!' We had placed rattles on the horses to
terrify the Indians. The booming of the guns, the blowing of the trumpets,
and the rattles on the horses threw the Indians into panicked confusion.
The Spaniards fell upon them and began to cut them to pieces.
The Indians were so filled with fear that they climbed on top of one another,
formed mounds, and suffocated each other. Since they were unarmed,
they were attacked without danger to any Christian.
The cavalry rode them down, killing and wounding, and following in pursuit. The infantry made
so good an assault on those that remained that in a short time most of them
were put to the sword.
"The Governor himself took his sword and dagger, entered the thick of
the Indians with the Spaniards who were with him, and with great bravery
reached Atahuallpa's litter. He fearlessly grabbed Atahuallpa's left arm
and shouted 'Santiago!,' but he could not pull Atahuallpa out of his litter
because it was held up high. Although we killed the Indians who held the
litter, others at once took their places and held it aloft, and in this manner
we spent a long time in overcoming and killing Indians. Finally seven or
eight Spaniards on horseback spurred on their horses, rushed upon the
litter from one side, and with great effort they heaved it over on its side. In
that way Atahuallpa was captured, and the Governor took Atahuallpa
to his lodging. The Indians carrying the litter, and those escorting
Ata-huallpa, never abandoned him: all died around him.
"The panic-stricken Indians remaining in the square, terrified at the
firing of the guns and at the horses?something they had never seen?tried
to flee from the square by knocking down a stretch of wall and running
out onto the plain outside. Our cavalry jumped the broken wall and
charged into the plain, shouting, 'Chase those with the fancy clothes!
Don't let any escape! Spear them!' All of the other Indian soldiers whom
Atahuallpa had brought were a mile from Cajamarca ready for battle, but
not one made a move, and during all this not one Indian raised a weapon
against a Spaniard. When the squadrons of Indians who had remained in
the plain outside the town saw the other Indians fleeing and shouting, most of
them too panicked and fled. It was an astonishing sight, for the whole
valley for 15 or 20 miles was completely filled with Indians. Night had
already fallen, and our cavalry were continuing to spear Indians in the
fields, when we heard a trumpet calling for us to reassemble at camp.
"If night had not come on, few out of the more than 40,000 Indian
troops would have been left alive. Six or seven thousand Indians lay dead,
and many more had their arms cut off and other wounds. Atahuallpa himself
admitted that we had killed 7,000 of his men in that battle. The man killed
in one of the litters was his minister, the lord of Chincha, of whom he was
very fond. All those Indians who bore Atahuallpa's litter appeared to be high
chiefs and councillors. They were all killed, as well as those Indians who
were carried in the other litters and hammocks. The lord of Cajamarca was
also killed, and others, but their numbers were so great that they could not
be counted, for all who came in attendance on Atahuallpa were great
lords. It was extraordinary to see so powerful a ruler captured in so short a
time, when he had come with such a mighty army. Truly, it was not
accomplished by our own forces, for there were so few of us. It was by the
grace of God, which is great.
"Atahuallpa's robes had been torn off when the Spaniards pulled him
out of his litter. The Governor ordered clothes to be brought to him, and
when Atahuallpa was dressed, the Governor ordered Atahuallpa to sit
near him and soothed his rage and agitation at finding himself so quickly
fallen from his high estate. The Governor said to Atahuallpa, 'Do not take it
as an insult that you have been defeated and taken prisoner, for with the
Christians who come with me, though so few in number, I have conquered
greater kingdoms than yours, and have defeated other more
powerful lords than you, imposing upon them the dominion of the Emperor,
whose vassal I am, and who is King of Spain and of the universal world. We
come to conquer this land by his command, that all may come to a
knowledge of God and of His Holy Catholic Faith; and by reason of our
good mission, God, the Creator of heaven and earth and of all things in
them, permits this, in order that you may know Him and come out from the
bestial and diabolical life that you lead. It is for this reason that we, being so
few in number, subjugate that vast host. When you have seen the errors
in which you live, you will understand the good that we have done you by
coming to your land by order of his Majesty the King of Spain. Our Lord
permitted that your pride should be brought low and that no Indian
should be able to offend a Christian.' "
Kill the Heretics!
The World is Flat and at the Center of the Universe!
Convert the Pagans by any Means!
Kill the Jews!
?I have been attacked because of my handling of the Jewish question. The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc., because it recognized the Jews for what they were. In the epoch of liberalism the danger was no longer recognized. I am moving back toward the time in which a fifteen-hundred-year-long tradition was implemented. I do not set race over religion, but I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the Church, and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions.? - Our dear Christian, Hitler
And so much more! But ladies and gentlemen, you will have to wait for the next installment to find out![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=kareng;48147]Everything here is History…yawn…[/QUOTE]
Oh no, I didn’t include all the things about proselytizing in different countries, things about Christians causing religious violence and instability to sprout wherever they go…as I said, all in my next installment, my dear fan.
Besides, are you denying the violent history of Christianity? It is precisely this violent history that caused the other nations of the world to become as “backwards” as they are today.
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;48447]The facet that caused the most negative impact on the world.[/QUOTE]
The only facet being shown is one that has always been there …Hinduism tells a person not to be violent therefore they know it to be a human weakness, propensity.
[QUOTE=kareng;48454]The only facet being shown is one that has always been there …Hinduism tells a person not to be violent therefore they know it to be a human weakness, propensity.[/QUOTE]
Point is, not one atrocity committed in European history was committed by “good Christians.” The message of the New Testament, primarily the four Gospels and the teachings of Jesus, come first for real Christians.
The Golden Rule comes first. Real True Christians wouldn’t commit such crimes against their fellow man.
Though it’s no surprise that the resident Hindutva Militia would ignore this fact as they are Indian nationalists and support Hindu global domination. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=kareng;48454]The only facet being shown is one that has always been there …Hinduism tells a person not to be violent therefore they know it to be a human weakness, propensity.[/QUOTE]
No, it does not say that. It acknowledges that while violence is generally not a good thing, there are certain circumstances that require the use of violence. Ever heard of Kshatriya Dharma?
