On the other hand, in Christianity the cause of suffering is explained as a mythical adam and eve, eating a mythical apple from a mythical tree tempted by a mythical talking snake getting punished by a mythical god. It is clear to see the Hindu explanation is true, and the Christian explanation is bogus.
Do you really believe that Christians really believe that it literally is all about an apple being eaten?
BTW, where did you get the idea of a snake? There is no mention of a snake anywhere.
The story in Genesis illustrates the fall of man from grace and a disobedience to God. It is not a literal historical event.
But of course there could be suffering because of attachment. Christianity also teaches that we must live in the world but not be OF the world.
But everyone will suffer because of the fall of man–even those who give up attachments. That can only prevent SOME suffering, but not all.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;45032]I try to maintain the same objective and factual outlook on everything, and if I find myself fall short, I indentify the bias and rectify it. So please tell me where I being subjective and emotional, and I will investigate to see how valid your statements are.
I never claimed you were racist Awaare.
It is also disputed by non-Indian academics. The classical invasionist theory is dismissed by the majority of modern scholarship. Now there are two competing theories that have been suggested: Out of India theory and Aryan Migration theory. The former is supported by the preponderence of archeological evidence, suggesting that the Aryan travelled from outside of India and colonized various parts of the world, including Europe. The latter theory is a weaker varient of AIT propounded by Western scholars(main proponent is Michael Witzel, who is an ivy league academic) It is accepted by Witzel that there was no invasion, but his theory is the Aryans originated in Iran and then the Indo-Aryans split off from the Iranian-Aryans, and migrated gradually into India and peacefully joined the Indian natives.
I never said that Hindus are the chosen ones. I said that the land of India is regarded as sacred by Hindus because it is in this land the Vedic civilisation flourished. The name “Hinduim” refers to the way of life, philosophy and spirituality of India, which originates in the Vedas. The title we have in India for a special class of human being who are enlightened is “Aryan” it basically means the noble people. It just happens to be that India was the Aryan homeland and the Aryans are the forefathers of much of world civilisation. This is why we rever this land.
Yes, there is no dispute from me that enlightened people have appeared in all cultures. The reason there are similarities between Plotoninus and Yoga, is because Platonius and other Neo-platonists were influenced by Yoga. It is not known how Yogic philosophy and practice travelled into Greece, but it is very clear it was present in Greece as far back as the pre-socratic philosophers. This period of history has been lost. Some say that it was through exchange of ideas through persia(Indians and Greeks were in contact via the Persians) Others say that the Aryans brought it into Greece directly(Greeks and Indians are both Indo-European cultures)
Yes, absolutely. Enlightenment is not just restricted to people in India.
This type of thinking is actually dangerous. Just because it is all just prakriti and ultimately illusion(maya) does not mean that we stop caring about the world and history. Okay, I accept my house does not actually belong to me, but it belongs to nature and I have staked a false claim of ownership on it. Likewise, countries do not really exist, but are just human claims of ownership on something which belongs to nature. In that case is it alright me to allow the stranger of the street to invade my house and take whatever they want. Is it okay to allow invaders to enter your country and redefine the borders of your country? No, of course not. It may well not belong to us, but temporarily we have ownership of that and we are using it.
I am not just going to sit idle and let an invader enter my country and not fight. Similarly, I am not going to just idle and let somebody take our intellectual property. Yoga, Vedanta, Samkhya, Ayurveda are the intellectual property of India and the Hindu civilisation. Yes, these are sciences that anybody can discover and rediscover, but it does not change the fact that it is the Hindu civilisation that discovered it first in human history. The credit goes to us and nobody else.
Now you are most probably right that many things which originated from Indian soil have not gotten the credit they are entitled to. I that the western judeao-christian culture has for too long a period been the ruling paradigm. It has gotten us in a dark world indeed.
What we are fighting for is the truth and nothing but the truth. We are completely convinced that Hinduism is the true religion, and we want to spread this religion far and wide in order to make this world prosperous. We are convinced this world needs Hinduism to be saved and are convinced every person needs this religion in order to get the true teachings and true methods of salvation.
Conflict cannot be avoided. The very fact that there are religions staking the same claim that Hindusim does, means that there is going to be doubt as to which religion is the real true one. However, Hindus are not afraid of this doubt, because in the end what matters is what is true. If Hinduism is not true a Hindu will gladly reject Hinduism and adopt the true religion. However, we Hindus are so utterly confident that our religion is true, that we can deal with every single doubt, objection, argument against our religion. We are so convinced other religions are false, that we are willing to demonstrate it.
It is clear to me for example that the cause of mental suffering is as Hinduism says it is: attachment to sensory objects. If I am attached to something only then will I worry about losing that object. I will not worry about losing something I am not attached to. The anxiety and fear of loss becomes mental suffering. This is a scientific explanation which can easily be demonstrated to be true through reasoning and empirical evidence.
On the other hand, in Christianity the cause of suffering is explained as a mythical adam and eve, eating a mythical apple from a mythical tree tempted by a mythical talking snake getting punished by a mythical god. It is clear to see the Hindu explanation is true, and the Christian explanation is bogus.
Yes, I want all beings to be happy and enlightened. This is why I expose them to Hinduism so they can get happiness and enlightenment, and expose the absurdities in other relgions to show them they will not get happiness and enlightenment there.[/QUOTE]
Forgive me if I am wrong, but the tone of this thread has been rather belligerent. This is why I conclude that subjective feelings may have gotten involved. Note that Hinduism is full of mythical stories as well. Note that there are thousands of sects and ashrams in India all claiming to be Hindu, all interpreting Vedanta in a different manner. I have read many bizarre interpretations I can totally not adhere to. So which Hinduism do you want to spread? The Surya-deva-Hinduism? ;)(forgive me to be kidding a bit here).
I have always been extremely sceptical towards people who want to spread their believes. I can only ( as you claim too) accept that what I have either directly experienced via samyama ( and I have not yet) or that what you can get from solid reasoning (as in the other thread). Until I have experienced enlightenment myself, I’ll never try to claim to know the only truth and once I’ll have experienced enlightenment I probably will not feel the need to spread that truth , at least not in a too zealous manner. Does the Siva samhita (and other Vedantic texts) not say that its truths should not be disclosed to the non-initiated? No pearls for the swine… I’d rather stick to a more modest inquiry within myself. You are free to do what you want, but you have not convinced me that this is the way forward. A too zealous attitude will rather repel than attract people, so if it is really your wish to convince other people of the truth of (pure) Hinduism (which I do not deny),
then probably a more reconciling tone is likely to be more successful. By the way, I now suddenly realise :o how I am being contradictory in trying to convince you of the correctness of a non-zealous attitude- I realise I am rather zealous in this way as well. probably we both want to spread what we think is the truth. Having said this and realised how preposterous my own attitude of being zealous in trying to convince you and others is, I will stop my contributions to this thread and stick to “inquiries”. I have nothing to defend and nothing to loose, for my knowledge does not go further than the conclusions we arrived at in the previous thread. Good luck with your Zeal.
Awesome response Awwware. I try to look at this zeal as sort of the psychic energy in me and try to understand what is the source of it. And its function. Maybe its a phase of development? Maybe everyone has to go through this period in life in which there is this great feeling of intellectual and spiritual clarity and this urge to confront with ignorant people (which usually means people with different belief system) to show them how wrong and illogical they are? I don’t have those phases anymore but from time to time I like to watch some fundamentalist priest or teacher preaching in very offensive and intolerant way. I like to see how limited and close minded such person is. And what a luck that I’m so open minded and reasonable person. But at some point I asked myself, am I different? Maybe this interest in them (and in whole idea of ignorance, fundamentalism, debates) is sort of a signal from my not-conscious part that there is such intolerant part of me that is hidden under carpet?
Yes, the tone of this discussion has been very violent. It has lightened up towards the end though. You have joined it at a better time.
Yes, there are many different sects claiming they are teaching the true Hinduism. This creates doubt as to what true Hinduism(in the same way there is doubt as to which is the true religion) The only way to dissolve the doubt is to investigate it.
True Hinduism is the Vedic religion which teaches the laws of karma, dharma and yoga science, philosophy and practice. Originally, the Jnana path was the path taken by Vedic Aryans. This was the path of meditation(as prescribed by Patanjali) whose theory was Samkhya. Hence why the Vedic risis meditated so much. The original Vedic religion is the religion of Risis who directly saw the ultimate reality and grasped the fundamental truths, then passed that on from generation to generation in the Vedas. They were very precise about this this is why they devised special methods of transmitting the Vedas so that not a single syllable would be corrupted.
Later, in the kali yuga the path of jnana was found very hard by the humans living in that age and by that time a lot of Vedic knowledge was lost. The maharishis had disappeared. It is during this period that the Darsana’s arose in order to rediscover the Vedic knowledge. Then arose the astika(orthodox schools) of Samkhhya, Yoga, Vedanta, Mimmasa, Nyaya and Vaiseshika and the nastika(non orthodox/heretical) schools of Buddhism, Jainism, Charvaka and tantra. This is the age of confusion, so there was a pluralrity of viewpoints on the “truth” This is also the time when the Bhakti movements started and hundreds of sects sprang up in Hinduism, each one creating their own puranas(their own mythology, rituals, codes, temples) Unfortunately, although the Jnana path still existed, it was relegated to the esoteric and the Bhakti path became predominant(to this very day)
Despite all this confusion finding the original Hinduism was not so hard, and the British did a very good job in tracing that. They found that although India appeared to have hundreds of different religions, they all shared a common master religion. This master religion(dubbed Hinduism) had common doctrines:
the doctrine of dharma, the doctrine of karma and reincarnation, the science, philosophy and practice of Yoga and they all traced their origin to the Vedas.
So if you trace the evolution of the religion of Hinduism originally it is unified and then as time goes by it diversifies(mirroring the evolution of the universe) for me the true Hinduism is the original united Vedic religion which had a pure scientific(jnana) approach and this is what needs to be bought back in our scientific age, which is ready for the true Vedic religion. The Vedic religion is just a scientific religion. There are no myths, rituals, deities. It is simply a program of self-realization or even more simply put: mental training.
The vast science of the mind has been lost in our current age, but we are starting to piece it together now. The Risis simply taught the science of mind and how to train your mind to unlock its potentials and the ultimate potential they called Brahman. This is the true Santana dharma. In the current age the best realization of Santana dharma has been achieived by Patanjali and Kapila, both of which treat of spirituality in pure technical and scientific language. I am their disciple. I spread their teachings.
Along the way many other scriptures have arisen such as the Gita, Yoga Vasistha, Shiva Samhita, Agamas/Tantras. These are helpful, but secondary texts and full of errors and mythology. They have been created by religious sects in order to justify their religion. Although I have no doubt that the historical person called Krishna and Rama existed, I do not at all believe in the myths and legends attributed to them. (They have even attributed myths and legends to Patanjali and Kapila) These are creations of religious minds. It is highly unlikely that the Gita was authored as they claim it was, with one grande discourse on the battlefield. This obviously is a dramatization. It is even unlikely Krishna ever gave such a discourse. It is a well known fact that the Mahabharata has been interpolated through the ages. The original historical Krishna and original historical Mahabharata is buried under mythology. I likewise reserve the same extent of doubt for the historical Jesus.
As I said I do try to maintain the same factual and objective outlook on everything. I will present facts and nothing more.
I have always been extremely sceptical towards people who want to spread their believes. I can only ( as you claim too) accept that what I have either directly experienced via samyama ( and I have not yet) or that what you can get from solid reasoning (as in the other thread). Until I have experienced enlightenment myself, I’ll never try to claim to know the only truth and once I’ll have experienced enlightenment I probably will not feel the need to spread that truth , at least not in a too zealous manner. Does the Siva samhita (and other Vedantic texts) not say that its truths should not be disclosed to the non-initiated? No pearls for the swine… I’d rather stick to a more modest inquiry within myself.
These injunctions have been passed for the Kaliyuga because ignorance is predominant in this age. Hence why the Jnana path became esoteric, but in the 21st century things have changed. The scientific age is returning and many esoteric yogis have come out of the woodworks and are now teaching the Vedic religion to the masses. Some of the first to do that were Swami Vivekananda and Swami Yogananada. The frequency of this will increase in this century significantly.
You are free to do what you want, but you have not convinced me that this is the way forward. A too zealous attitude will rather repel than attract people, so if it is really your wish to convince other people of the truth of (pure) Hinduism (which I do not deny),
then probably a more reconciling tone is likely to be more successful. By the way, I now suddenly realise :o how I am being contradictory in trying to convince you of the correctness of a non-zealous attitude- I realise I am rather zealous in this way as well. probably we both want to spread what we think is the truth. Having said this and realised how preposterous my own attitude of being zealous in trying to convince you and others is, I will stop my contributions to this thread and stick to “inquiries”. I have nothing to defend and nothing to loose, for my knowledge does not go further than the conclusions we arrived at in the previous thread. Good luck with your Zeal.
You have to be passionate of your truth and convinctions. Even Patanjali says be zealous. It is not true that Hinduism does not prescribe conversions and missionary activity. The Vedas declare, “Make the whole world Aryan” some of the most zealous missionaries of Hinduism were Adisankara, who took delight in destroying opposing schools and religions in debates. In modern times Swami Vivekananda, Swami Chinmayananda, Swami Sivananda and many more.
We Hindus were very hard at work in the past in spreading the Vedic religion around the world and we were hugely succesful in taking our Aryan culture to every part of the world, and likewise today we hope to be just as succesfull, and to some extents have been very succesful again. It is because of us that that Europe had an age of enlightenment, first indirectly through the Arabs(who bought our sciences to the West) then directly when British came to India and learned about the Vedas. Then our philosophy travelled to the West(though patronage by people like Schropenhaur) and we massively influenced the German Idealist school, then the American Transcendentalists, and the Western theosophists. Since, we have been a major factor behind the counter-cultural movement, human growth movement and the new-age movement. The psychological sciences are largely due to us.
The Vedic religion is returning. The new world spirituality that we see unfolding all over the world is the Vedic religion under a new name. In this century everything from soul, reincarnation and dharma, pranic vidya will become scientific fact. We are already touching on all the truths the Vedic religion contains: the holographic nature of reality, how eveything is just vibrations of the gunas, the primacy of consciousness, the mechanics of the mind.
[QUOTE=thomas;45033]Do you really believe that Christians really believe that it literally is all about an apple being eaten?
BTW, where did you get the idea of a snake? There is no mention of a snake anywhere.
The story in Genesis illustrates the fall of man from grace and a disobedience to God. It is not a literal historical event.[/quote]
This is the current view in Catholicism. However, in pre-modern times this story was taken to be literal. Today everything in the bible that contradicts science is taken to be metaphoric.
But of course there could be suffering because of attachment. Christianity also teaches that we must live in the world but not be OF the world.
But everyone will suffer because of the fall of man–even those who give up attachments. That can only prevent SOME suffering, but not all.
I am not denying that there is not some rudimentary understanding of attachment in Christianity, but it is not very clearly articulated or understood in Christianity. In Yoga it is explained very clearly, in technical scientific language, with loads of illustrations. Christianity lacks this.
I am not saying Christianity is the only one guilty of this mythologizing and mysticizing tendency. Many sects in Hinduism do the same. But in the current scientific age we have no need for mythology and mysiticism. We are old enough to understand thing scientificaly and rationally - we don’t need anymore Santas and tooth fairies.
There was no literal fall of man. What happend was humans devolved due to the coming of the age of Kali(the dark ages) and we lost our psycho-physical capacities leading to a huge reduction in our physical age, stature and mental abilities, as well a loss in our scientific knowledge. As a result of which the surviving Vedic Aryans in India developed the science of Yoga in order for humans to retrain their psycho-physical structures to attain the same capacities.
Now during that timeframe of 10,000 years to current day loads of teachers have come to teach that same science(Jesus was one of many teachers) so humans can regain their control and evolve back to that level. Some have succeeded(Jesus may have been one of them) others are still in the dark ages.
There was a time on this planet when people like Buddha, Jesus, Krishna were common on this planet. That was the age of gods on this planet. That time will arrive again when the next satyuga dawns.
By the way, here is just some advice from me: Do not wait for the arrival of some prophet, world teacher, avatar or god(whether that be Kalki, Jesus or Maitriyea) You need to become the prophet/world teacher/avatar or god yourself. In order to do this start your Yoga sadhana now and start to develop that mind of yours. As soon as you have gained control of that mind you will begin to awaken your potentials.
This is what I am doing. My goal is nothing less than becoming a god and I will definitely succeed because my will power is strong. I will return to this world only after I have attained the avatar level of evolution.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;45042]Yes, the tone of this discussion has been very violent. It has lightened up towards the end though. You have joined it at a better time.
Yes, there are many different sects claiming they are teaching the true Hinduism. This creates doubt as to what true Hinduism(in the same way there is doubt as to which is the true religion) The only way to dissolve the doubt is to investigate it.
True Hinduism is the Vedic religion which teaches the laws of karma, dharma and yoga science, philosophy and practice. Originally, the Jnana path was the path taken by Vedic Aryans. This was the path of meditation(as prescribed by Patanjali) whose theory was Samkhya
…You have to be passionate of your truth and convinctions. Even Patanjali says be zealous. It is not true that Hinduism does not prescribe conversions and missionary activity. The Vedas declare, “Make the whole world Aryan” some of the most zealous missionaries of Hinduism were Adisankara, who took delight in destroying opposing schools and religions in debates. In modern times Swami Vivekananda, Swami Chinmayananda, Swami Sivananda and many more.
…
The Vedic religion is returning. The new world spirituality that we see unfolding all over the world is the Vedic religion under a new name. In this century everything from soul, reincarnation and dharma, pranic vidya will become scientific fact. We are already touching on all the truths the Vedic religion contains: the holographic nature of reality, how eveything is just vibrations of the gunas, the primacy of consciousness, the mechanics of the mind.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the clarification. The let’s-call-it pure-Hinduism you describe here, is essentially Yoga and in sofar the answer to your thread’s query cannot be other than: yoga = hinduism. The problem is that when most people read this thesis, they do not have this definition of Hinduism in mind. In your definition even I am 100% Hindu. However, when I assist at a ceremony in my wife’s family and a pundit declares that we have to bury remnants of the umbilical cord of a baby under a so-and-so tree because otherwise the child will suffer for the rest of its life from pain in its belly, I cannot but think, what a superstition. And so it is when I talk with many Hindus (I have also been to India); I often find their views superstitious and so to totally not in line what Yoga and pure Hinduism is about. Even if I discovered Hinduism only at the age of 17 (in a book called Sport and Yoga from Selvarajan Yesudian by the way), I am convinced that the interpretation of the Yoga sutras of Patanjali is the correct one. This is what Yoga is about and what Hinduism should be about. Unfortunately, too much abuse is made of people who believe. Too much false superstitious doctrines are spread.
Now as to the nature of being Zealous - as long as this is not in conflict with the yama (for thomas: moral constraint) Ahimsa (for thomas: non-violence) and as long as it is not born out of a wish of crediting your own Ego, there is nothing wrong with it: because then it is in fact the message of the Boddhisattva: to help others to set them free from their suffering. If this is what you mean, then in principle nothing but good can come from it. But it I think it requires an attitude of friendliness and tolerance. To destroy someone’s ignorance by debate: perfect - as long as the interlocutor is respected. It’s also a matter of practicality: If you’re honest about your Zeal, about wanting to convince another for his/her own good (and not in winning the argument for the sake of the Ego), you have to lure them into your camp, not frighten them away with an attitude of too much apparent Zeal. As long as we keep monitoring ourselves and our motives and act in an unselfish manner, we’re on the track of the Gita.
It finally all boils down to semantics again. Misunderstandings in this forum are mostly due to different people calling different topics by the same name.
So good luck with your Hinduisation of the world.
Thanks for helping out with the terms Awwware. But actually in this case, I knew a little about those. I even have a book about the Sutras, being the tolerant and open-minded Catholic that I am. But please don’t hesitate to likewise in the future, because most of this board is Greek to me, and any help with the lingo is appreciated.
Thanks for the clarification. The let’s-call-it pure-Hinduism you describe here, is essentially Yoga and in sofar the answer to your thread’s query cannot be other than: yoga = hinduism. The problem is that when most people read this thesis, they do not have this definition of Hinduism in mind. In your definition even I am 100% Hindu. However, when I assist at a ceremony in my wife’s family and a pundit declares that we have to bury remnants of the umbilical cord of a baby under a so-and-so tree because otherwise the child will suffer for the rest of its life from pain in its belly, I cannot but think, what a superstition. And so it is when I talk with many Hindus (I have also been to India); I often find their views superstitious and so to totally not in line what Yoga and pure Hinduism is about.
Yes, I know what you mean. I have also been faced by a lot of superstitious Hindus. Fortunately, I have been able to show many Hindus the true Hinduism contained in the Vedas and they have now adopted the deeper teachings. I have also been successful in exposing many of non-Hindu friends to the true Vedic Hinduism. Most of the times, I do not do it with any motive in mind to convert them, I simply share what I know with them, and they like it and end up accepting it(and adjusting it in their own way)
This is because true Vedic Hinduism is acceptable to our rationality and our scientific standards. It passes our modern tests. This is the real santana dharma that will flourish on this planet in this century and our future generations will be Hindus - the adherents of Sanatana dharma. All other religions will have gone or been assimilated into Santana dharma.
Here is what a Vedic society would look. Capitalism will have gone and will be replaced by the Vedic varnashrama system(the original Vedic social system) Life will be divided into 4 four quarters: education, married life, retirement and spirituality. In the first quarter humans will get Vedic siksha they will learn about the real nature of reality, the soul and develop their psycho-physical stucture under the guidance of enlightened teachers. This will be a training period so it will be completely absent of modern social ills like dating, clubbing, fratenities, mtv, video games, porn, drugs. Then, after completing their education around the age of 25, one will enter into the householder and career stage and help society in all areas and have families. The career that they will enter into will be one that is in complete agreement with their gunas(aptitude) It will be impossible in this society to enter a career that one is not suited to. Those with the aptitude of teachers will naturally take academic posts. The selection of spouse will also be done according to matching gunas. Then around the age of 50 one will be able to retire and be looked after by their children in the space of which they can relax. In the last quarter at the age of 75 one will prepare for their next life.
This would be a highly scientific and technological society. The language spoken would be a language that is precise and clear and mirrors our natural language(like Sanskrit) and which would be able to interface with natural systems(machines etc) There would be no temples, worship rituals or clergy(as there are no beliefs) There would be sacred spaces though like meditation halls and special sacred natural resorts which will be built based on the pranic science of vaastu(sacred geometry) Cities would be build according to precise plans and with the flow of prana in mind and the environment would be ecofriendly and made out of suitable materials.
Energy generation would be done using pranic sciences by tapping the akasha(so-called zero point energy field) using harmonic oscillators(crystals etc) thus producing clean and free energy to power all our machines.
Health care will be a more technologically advanced Ayurvedic system. The diet will be vegetarian, light and healthy(sattvic) which will boost the immune system of one, preventing disease from flourishing. Medical health care will be predominantly based on using natural ingredients(herbs, minerals) and natural means in order to balance the regulating systems of the body(tridosa) The principal means of health management will be Yoga. Hitech machines would be used for surgery and detection, including machines that can read energy fields to diagnose blockages.
The sciences of Jyotish(astrology) will have reached scientific standards. This will be used in order to help people in determining their karma and what they need to do in this life from the moment one is born a chart will be drawn up for them. This chart will get assessed by their parents, guardians and teachers in order to best help that soul make the best of their incarnation.
Education will be predominantly about faculty training as opposed to teaching just pure factual knowledge. It will involve a lot of meditation and exploring of other planes of reality and contacting higher beings. Getting knowledge will be as simple as entering into the akashic field and absorbing the information.
The way of life in this society will be highly spiritual. Everything that is done in this society will have a sacred element. Arts, poetry, dance, sports, entertainment will all be spiritual. (Like Natya, Haiku, Mandalas) Contact with other races in the universe and dimensions will be very common. One will be living in a much more wider intergalactic and interdimensional community and have abundant choice.
Now a few could say to me that how am I going to make the world accept Hinduization. Will the Christians and Muslims ever accept a Hinduized world? No, they will not and this is why I have identified them as an obstacle in our path to a Vedic world. As long as they exist in the current form they will prevent a new awakened spiritual human from arising.
The truth is we are living in a Christian and Muslim dominated world - an Abrahamic world.
Most people on this planet belong to these religions. These are religions which support the absolute opposite of a spiritual world. They preach blind faith and obediance in clergies, they preach ritualism and worship of deities and they preach wrong facts about nature and teach wrong doctrines(resurrection etc) They are the ethos behind societies in which we accept chosen ones. They promote not equality, but oligarchy and adherents of these religions accept inferiority(original sin etc) They are keeping humanity in the dark ages.
We should not pretend we are living in a secular world, because we are not. It is still an Abrahamic world at the core. That is an ideology that supports oligarchy and elitism and defines the human as lowly and insigificant. In our so-called secular world the top 1% of the population of humans own about 90% of the resources on this planet and control and dominate everybody. The vast majority of humans do not see themselves as anymore than greedy consumers and animals. Most humans think they will only live once and are completely gone at death or go to heaven or hell forever.
It is not a surprise we live in a world that is ravaged by war, corruption, inequality and suffering. The Abrahamic religions cannot continue as they are. The world needs Hinduism to progress. That too pure Vedic Hinduism(Bhakti Hinduism also has to go).
In Vedic society there is no oligarchy or elitism, no clergies. No chosen ones can arise in a Vedic society that control and dominate everybody. In Vedic humanism the human is not just an insigificant or animal being, but a potential god. He must by his own action evolve to the level of god by expanding his capacity by using his incarnation as a training ground to develop. The earth plane is his school. He has nobody else to answer to but himself. If he wants to evolve he must make the effort and graduate, else he will remain on the lower rungs. Nobody is going to do it for him.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;45055]Now a few could say to me that how am I going to make the world accept Hinduization. Will the Christians and Muslims ever accept a Hinduized world? No, they will not and this is why I have identified them as an obstacle in our path to a Vedic world. [/QUOTE]
Sigh* I have consistently tried to convey this very point and yet they will not listen. Although I disagree with the “Hinduized” world notion, I do agree that Christians and Muslims will never tolerate a blot of heretical beliefs wherever they see it. They will always have some ulterior motive and ignorance regarding Hinduism/glorifying it/helping poor Hindus no matter how pious or benevolent they may seem within their religious communities.
[QUOTE=dharma66;45058]It’s simply laughable how Surya and Nietzsche go on about the intolerance of Christianity and Islam, in a completely intolerant manner.
Come on guys, open your eyes. You two are THE most intolerant people I’ve come across in years! The level of your hypocrisy is truly staggering![/QUOTE]
Intolerance of intolerance (or those associated with it) cannot be defined the same way. It is righteousness. Would you say abolitionists were intolerant of slavery, with their strong attacks and virulent propaganda against a completely accepted social norm back in those days in the U.S? Abolitionists, though we conceive them today as noble people, were scorned as disrupters of peace back then. Toleration and moderation in the face of evil does nothing but to perpetuate it. After the Reconstruction ended, most of the Southern state governments went back to indirectly defying the Constitutional amendments for racial equality and the region as a whole saw no improvement from the pre-Civil war days until the aftermath of the Civil Rights movement. Had the Reconstruction policies been those of the Radical Republicans in the House of Representatives, another near century of suffering for blacks might have never taken place. There are an infinite amount of more examples I could use to prove my point. I am afraid it is you who needs to open your eyes to the reality and see those pseudo-benevolent Christians/Westerners and supposedly tolerant Muslims for what they truly are and what they truly mean to do.
We cannot afford to be politically correct. The truth is orthodox Christianity and Islam are poisons to humanity.
They teach doctrines like we are all sinners or slaves. Christianity is infamous for saying everybody is born a sinner and everybody must redeem themselves by accepting Jesus as the way, life and truth. Those who do not accept Jesus are condemned. The Church punished those who did not accept Jesus in in the past with horrible punishments. This history still haunts Christianity. Today, Christian missionaries are operating in third world countries trying to convert the masses to Jesus by undermining their indigenious religions
Millions of gullible people are fooled by the clergy in Churches into accepting the “cross” and given false promises. While this goes on, the clergy exploits them economically and sexually. It is well known what has gone on in the Church for decades today, and people like the pope have abetted this.
Islam teaches we are all slaves of Allah and must surrender to him and work for him(struggle for Jihad) According to Islam there is only one god and that is Allah. We must all surrender to Allah. If we do not, we are condemned and the Muslim clergy(Imams, Caliphs) punished those who did not convert to Islam severely. They destroyed their temples and demolished their idols. They beheaded them, raped the women and did very horrible things that cannot even be spoken off. The least punishment for not being Muslim was to pay a really penalizing tax. The Quran is full of verses telling its adherents to kill, slaughter or destroy non-Muslims. It openly preaches violence.
They have no place in a civilised, rational and scientific world in the form that they currently exist in. They are not even remotely the equivalent of dharmic religions.
We cannot afford to be politically correct. The truth is orthodox Christianity and Islam are poisons to humanity.
They reach doctrines like we are all sinners or slaves. Christianity is infamous for saying everybody is born a sinner and everybody must redeem themselves by accepting Jesus as the way, life and truth. Those who do not accept Jesus are condemned. The Church punished those who did not accept Jesus in in the past with horrible punishments. This history still haunts Christianity. Today, Christian missionaries are operating in third world countries trying to convert the masses to Jesus by undermining their indigenious religions
Millions of gullible people are fooled by the clergy in Churches into accepting the “cross” and given false promises. While this goes on, the clergy exploits them economically and sexually. It is well known what has gone on in the Church for decades today, and people like the pope have abetted this.
Islam teaches we are all slaves of Allah and must surrender to him and work for him(struggle for Jihad) According to Islam there is only one god and that is Allah. We must all surrender to Allah. If we do not, we are condemned and the Muslim clergy(Imams, Caliphs) punished those who did not convert to Islam severely. They destroyed their temples and demolished their idols. They beheaded them, raped the women and did very horrible things that cannot even be spoken off. The least punishment for not being Muslim was to pay a really penalizing tax. The Quran is full of verses telling its adherents to kill, slaughter or destroy non-Muslims. It openly preaches violence.
They have no place in a civilised, rational and scientific world in the form that they currently exist in. They are not even remotely the equivalent of dharmic religions.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Hopefully they will better understand my statement “Intolerance of intolerance is righteousness.”
Now, bear in mind Dharma. Hindus are not violent people. We are not about to go on a global rampage ethnically cleansing all Christians and Muslims, as they have done to others. However, we are not going to hold any bars in destroying their doctrines in debate.
Hindus rarely, if ever, engaged in outright violence against opposing religions, philosophies and viewpoints. What we did engage in was debate and through the power of reasoning we were able to destroy all these alternative viewpoints.
Hindus who balk from debate are not real Hindus. They are closer to Jains. It is Jains who are relativists, “I am right, and you are right as well” Hindus are definitely not relativists.
Surya/Nietszche. No. You are so wrong. You do not represent Hindu thought. You only represent your own hatred. Neither of you are any different from Christian or Muslim radicals. You are simply Hindu radicals, preaching hatred, division and supremacy.
I am ashamed to call myself Hindu if it means having views such as yours. Fortunately, it does not mean that. But I cannot remain on the forum for fear that I will be tarred with the brush that you both cause Hinduism to be tarred with.
I wish you both well, and hope that some day your eyes are opened to the beauty of Sanatana Dharma, and the scales of hatred fall from your eyes. In the meanwhile, I leave you here to continue to hijack any thread on religion with your hatred and intolerance.
This might add some context to the discussion of Sanatana Dharma
Quote:-
[B]"[/B]By its nature, Sanatana Dharma is…
[ul]
[li]God-centered rather than prophet-centered.[/li][li]Experience based rather than belief based.[/li][li]Beyond any historical date of founding.[/li][li]The process of growth, which comes from the seed.[/li][li]Inherent in, and inclusive of all.[/li][li]In the world, while above the world.[/li][li]Both immanent and transcendent.[/li][li]The whole and the parts.[/li][li][B][U]Loving of all and excluding of none. "[/U][/B][/li][/ul]
Any pathway or spiritual vision that accepts the spiritual freedom of others may be considered part of Sanatana Dharma.
I underlined the last bit, loving of all , which sums it up nicely, ie irrespective of whatever belief system of religion they may adhere to or strive to abide by.
Googling SD will provide further explanations & descriptions…
Living in alignment with eternal principles or suppoedly “universal” cosmic laws even perhaps.
Now does that sound like hindu propaganda?.. well it’s a mute point.I’ve never found the hindus that propagandic but then i’m a westerner and I was introduced to Christianity first, if you want to call it that.What it is like in the East is outwith my own personal experience apart from a short travel trip through India & the Himalayas incl. Nepal & Kashmir 17 years ago.Interesting place ,to say the least!
