Is Yoga Hinduism?

Spirituality Religion
#821

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;45957]We’re talking specifically about abortion here. This is another matter with a different set of moral and ethical codes that apply accordingly.[/QUOTE]

Tell that to the babies scraped out of their mothers’ wombs.

Funny that the evil and violent Christians are doing everything they can to stop these murders–over 3,000 a day in the US alone–yet at least two Hindus are willing to turn a blind eye towards it.

Or is figting against abortion and striving for the protection of life in the womb yet one more evil of Christianity? :roll:

#822

[QUOTE=thomas;45968]Tell that to the babies scraped out of their mothers’ wombs.

Funny that the evil and violent Christians are doing everything they can to stop these murders–over 3,000 a day in the US alone–yet at least two Hindus are willing to turn a blind eye towards it.

Or is figthing against abortion yet one more evil of Christianity? :roll:[/QUOTE]

We have told you that it is highly dependent on circumstances. Make what you will of it.

You know what I find most amusing? Christians who go around defaming abortion and then proceed call those children who are the product of rape, [insert offensive expletive]. There is even a verse in the Bible which says [insert that word] will go Hell. I, as a Hindu, do not see any problem with them. They (as well as homosexuals) are human beings like the rest of us. Too bad this Christianized society goes around spreading hatred towards them. Ever noticed that most of the ones who hate homosexuals/“that word” and speak out against them are Christians or people influenced by Christianity? :wink:

I suggest you become friends with some more Hindus. You will find that most of them, even if they are not as “nationalistic” or outspoken as us, will agree with Surya Deva and I.

We are not turning a blind eye towards abortion. We merely think that it is wrong in some cases, and right in others.

In certain circumstances, it can be a good or bad aspect of Christianity. But its more paradoxical than good or bad.

Let’s face it; the best thing about Christianity is Jesus. Whether he existed or not, I don’t know. But it is clear that Christianity is a mockery of what he (if he existed) stood for.

#823

I’m grateful to know there are pro-life Hindus, so I don’t unfarily assume all lack compassion for the unborn, just because of a couple of internet posters.

There is even a verse in the Bible which says [insert that word] will go Hell.

Really? Could you humor me and just this one time actually quote the verse instead of claiming it exits?

Christians do not hate the child out of wedlock or the child produced by a rape. Christians, or I should say Catholics, since not all Christians take such a noble stand, but credit to those who do, oppose all abortions regardless of the circumstance of the conception. The child of a rape is no different than anyone else and does not deserve death because of the evil his father did.

#824

Let’s face it; the best thing about Christianity is Jesus. Whether he existed or not, I don’t know. But it is clear that Christianity is a mockery of what he (if he existed) stood for.

A Christian is supposed to be like Jesus. We all fail and come up short, but that’s the objective.

I don’t see how the Church he started is “mocking” him.

The Church in fact is mocked from those in the secular world because of the devotion to Jesus.

#825

[QUOTE=thomas;45970]I’m grateful to know there are pro-life Hindus, so I don’t unfarily assume all lack compassion for the unborn, just because of a couple of internet posters.

Really? Could you humor me and just this one time actually quote the verse instead of claiming it exits?

Christians do not hate the child out of wedlock or the child produced by a rape. Christians, or I should say Catholics, since not all Christians take such a noble stand, but credit to those who do, oppose all abortions regardless of the circumstance of the conception. The child of a rape is no different than anyone else and does not deserve death because of the evil his father did.[/QUOTE]

Yawn.* So someone who doesn’t agree with your biased Christian views on abortion automatically has no compassion for the unborn. This kind of logic never ceases to amaze me.

We all know what will happen when I post any verse.

We are not saying the child deserves death in this circumstance. We are arguing whether it would be fair to the mother, to the child, to society to let the child be born in certain situations.

#826

[QUOTE=thomas;45971]A Christian is supposed to be like Jesus. We all fail and come up short, but that’s the objective.

I don’t see how the Church he started is “mocking” him.

The Church in fact is mocked from those in the secular world because of the devotion to Jesus.[/QUOTE]

I wonder why you all fail…

He started a Church?!? BREAKING NEWS! JESUS ACTUALLY STARTED A CHURCH!!! by Thomas, a poster on the Yoga Forums.

It is mocked in the secular world because of their ignorance, their idiocy, their hypocrisy, their devotion to a man that probably never existed and wasn’t all that great of an example of a exemplary individual, and so forth.

#827

What is not exemplary about being God, about forgiving sins, and about healing the sick and raising the dead? What is not exemplary about teaching others to forgive?

And yes I believe, as most Christians believe, that Jesus started a Church, and that Peter was the “Rock” upon which it was built. He was the first Pope.

#828

[QUOTE=thomas;45976]What is not exemplary about being God, about forgiving sins, and about healing the sick and raising the dead? What is not exemplary about teaching others to forgive?

And yes I believe, as most Christians believe, that Jesus started a Church, and that Peter was the “Rock” upon which it was built. He was the first Pope.[/QUOTE]

Those are all exemplary (with the exception of teaching others to forgive; parents can tell the same thing); in fairy tales, myths, and bed-time stories.

I have also heard otherwise, even from Christians. I have heard that such organizations were created after his death and that he did not mean for any religion to be established.

#829

I said “most” Christians. Most Christians are Catholic. The rest are the result of a schism, but most of them don’t understand it.

And if you think Jesus was a fairy tale, then why say he wasn’t exemplary?

#830

[QUOTE=thomas;45980]I said “most” Christians. Most Christians are Catholic. The rest are the result of a schism, but most of them don’t understand it.

And if you think Jesus was a fairy tale, then why say he wasn’t exemplary?[/QUOTE]

Man, these guys are obviously racist Hindu supremacist bigots. Their religion is the truth and the first or whatever, divinely inspired, while other religions are "fairy tales, myths, and bed-time stories."
Just leave them alone. They’ll get it someday, or not, but it’s obviously not going to be today with how stuck they are.

#831

We all know what will happen when I post any verse.

The normal and fair thing to do would be to cite any verse you are referring to, for the sake of the readers of the post.

If it exists, that’s an easy enough thing to do.

If I were like you and were looking for dirt in the Hindu scriptures, which I would not do, as I would rater look for the positive and reflect on it, and if I found something questionable, I would not just say that the Hindu scriptures says so-and-so, but would quote it word for word.

How else would anyone know whether it was true or whether I just made it up, or heard about it on an anti-Hindu site?

But what you have said cannot possibly be true, since Catholicism does not definitively declare that ANYONE is in Hell, or never declare anyone predisposed to Hell, especially an innocent child.

Of course if you refuse to quote the scriptures, you can say it says anthing at all, and maybe get away with letting a distortion or outright falsehood stand, as SD has done with his claim that the Bible condones beastialty, when in fact it condemns it.

Is this intellectual honesty?

#832

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;45981]Man, these guys are obviously racist Hindu supremacist bigots. Their religion is the truth and the first or whatever, divinely inspired, while other religions are "fairy tales, myths, and bed-time stories."
Just leave them alone. They’ll get it someday, or not, but it’s obviously not going to be today with how stuck they are.[/QUOTE]

If they believe thier religion is true and the best, I don’t fault them in the slightest.

But I don’t understand their meanspiritedness towards others who happen to have different ideas. I don’t understand their need to attack others and other faiths. And I especially don’t understand why they turn their intellects off when they degrade other religions, and resort to the lowest and most dishonest tactics, and don’t care a whit about any responses or explainations.

#833

[QUOTE=thomas;45983]If they believe thier religion is true and the best, I don’t fault them in the slightest.

But I don’t understand their meanspiritedness towards others who happen to have different ideas. I don’t understand their need to attack others and other faiths. And I especially don’t understand why they turn their intellects off when they degrade other religions, and resort to the lowest and most dishonest tactics, and don’t care a whit about any responses or explainations.[/QUOTE]

It’s all born of ego. You can take a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. Just let it go.

#834

Some flippant accusations have been made again which the objective reader following this thread will find no evidence for.

Racism: I said just a few posts back that I prefer the company of white people(I am brown) to brown people and find them generally to be better people than the majority of my own kind. This makes me the opposite of a racist.

Nationalist: I just said a few posts back that I do not believe in nationalism and I believe the entire world should unite under one culture. The nation state is a temporal construction and I do not believe any nation state is absolute or binding. This makes me opposite of a nationalist.

Supremist: I have posted a thread, “Contributions of World religions” Acknowleding what has been done better in each religion in the world and praising it over my own. This makes me the opposite of a supremist.

Many objective posters on this web site such as Core have noticed that these flippant accusations I am often the receiver of have no substance. All objective readers will share similar views. The ones making these accusations are engaging in slander and this is actually a civil offense, and in the real world can be prosecuted.

#835

Now for the truth for Thomas.

Thomas dear, you cannot hide from your history. Your religion has been behind extreme amounts of death and destruction: crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, genocides through colonialism and these were ordained by the clergies of your religion. This has not been just noted by Hindus, but free Western thinkers like Volataire. Stop the denial.

Regarding abortion. Sorry we do not share your religious morality. We have a pragmatic and real world morality. As morality is all about right and wrong action and an action is never separate from its circumstances, the circumstances have to be also considered.
The action of stealing something that does not belong to you is wrong, but the action of stealing from a rich and greedy person who coverts more wealth than is needed, to give a starving person is not wrong. The action of mudering an innocent person is wrong, but the action of murdering somebody intent on killing you and your loved ones in self-defense is not wrong. The action of lust where one objectifies a human is wrong, but the action of having some lustful and passionate sex with your partner is not wrong.

In Hinduism the highest moral value is ahimsa - non violence in thought, speech and action to all living beings. However, in special circumstances, when non-violence in thought, speech and action is wrong, violence as a last resort is ok. If somebody tries to start a fight with you, you first act by not responding to the negative emotional states(anger, fear etc) If push comes to shove and the person starts pushing you, you try to reason with the person using soft speech. If they start assulating you, then you defend yourself and fight back.

Our religion does not have a history like your religion does. We did not have inquisitions, witch burnings, crusades. This is a fact you are simply going to have to face.

#836

Hinduism is the most openminded, pragmatic and real religion in the world. Here are some of the things that you are allowed to do in Hinduism but not in other religions

  • Women can become Gurus of men. The woman can reach the highest station in the religion, comment on and compose scripture and initiate men. Around 30 of the sages that composed the Vedas were women.

  • Homosexuality is permitted. Hinduism does not care who two consenting adults are having intimacy with. If one is born homosexual they are just as natural as one who is born hetrosexual and have the same rights as other Hindus. The ancient temple carvings depict homosexual acts and the kamasutra gives instructions on homosexual sex.

  • You do not have to read scriptures, go to the temple or engage in any ritual. A Hindu is Hindu because they accept and practice the general doctrines of dharma, karma and yoga. This does not force you to read any scripture, go to any temple or engage in any ritual. A Hindu is not even forced to accept god. There are athiest Hindus.

Praise to Hinduism :smiley:

#837

[QUOTE=thomas;45982]The normal and fair thing to do would be to cite any verse you are referring to, for the sake of the readers of the post.

If it exists, that’s an easy enough thing to do.

If I were like you and were looking for dirt in the Hindu scriptures, which I would not do, as I would rater look for the positive and reflect on it, and if I found something questionable, I would not just say that the Hindu scriptures says so-and-so, but would quote it word for word.

How else would anyone know whether it was true or whether I just made it up, or heard about it on an anti-Hindu site?

But what you have said cannot possibly be true, since Catholicism does not definitively declare that ANYONE is in Hell, or never declare anyone predisposed to Hell, especially an innocent child.

Of course if you refuse to quote the scriptures, you can say it says anthing at all, and maybe get away with letting a distortion or outright falsehood stand, as SD has done with his claim that the Bible condones beastialty, when in fact it condemns it.

Is this intellectual honesty?[/QUOTE]

Been there, done that.

There are very few good apples in the orchard that is the Bible, compared to Hindu scriptures.

You could look it up yourself. Actually, there are several verses I have heard (and seen) of that mention predisposition to Hell for certain groups and so forth. Then again, there’s the fact that I forget which interpretation a certain sect of Christianity holds for those kinds of verses at times.

Intellectual honesty? In your example, no it is not. Then again, what about all those Christians who go around defaming other religions, converting “heathens” by spreading lies and misinformation on their own religions and pretending to be one of them, and etc? Is that intellectual honesty? Is it acceptable because Christianity is gaining more converts? These kinds of Christians are far more numerous than you can imagine in your cozy home in America.

#838

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;45989]Now for the truth for Thomas.

Thomas dear, you cannot hide from your history. Your religion has been behind extreme amounts of death and destruction: crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, genocides through colonialism and these were ordained by the clergies of your religion. This has not been just noted by Hindus, but free Western thinkers like Volataire. Stop the denial.

Regarding abortion. Sorry we do not share your religious morality. We have a pragmatic and real world morality. As morality is all about right and wrong action and an action is never separate from its circumstances, the circumstances have to be also considered.
The action of stealing something that does not belong to you is wrong, but the action of stealing from a rich and greedy person who coverts more wealth than is needed, to give a starving person is not wrong. The action of mudering an innocent person is wrong, but the action of murdering somebody intent on killing you and your loved ones in self-defense is not wrong. The action of lust where one objectifies a human is wrong, but the action of having some lustful and passionate sex with your partner is not wrong.

In Hinduism the highest moral value is ahimsa - non violence in thought, speech and action to all living beings. However, in special circumstances, when non-violence in thought, speech and action is wrong, violence as a last resort is ok. If somebody tries to start a fight with you, you first act by not responding to the negative emotional states(anger, fear etc) If push comes to shove and the person starts pushing you, you try to reason with the person using soft speech. If they start assulating you, then you defend yourself and fight back.

Our religion does not have a history like your religion does. We did not have inquisitions, witch burnings, crusades. This is a fact you are simply going to have to face.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, we also had Sati and Caste System. As for the Caste system, we have made it clear that it is more of a societal system. As for Sati, I have no idea where this popped out of. I have never seen one verse sanctioning this practice and no mention is given on how extensively it was practiced. Strangely enough, it seems to have been rampant during Muslim Mughal rule and very infrequent and uncommon in pre-Islamic rule. More evidence of the religious stagnation foreign empires created in India.

#839

What is the verse that supports your assertion that beastiality is condoned in the Bible, SD.

I think you’re mistaken about that one.

Can you admit when you make a mistake, or are you going to continue to ignore it?

#840

From a Catholic perspective, and this is the largest “sect” of Christianity by far, and from our perspective, THE CHurch established by Christ, to Whom all are called, NOBODY is predestined to Hell.

EVERYONE can find salvation. And it’s beyond ridiculous that an illegetimate child or the child of a rape would be hell-bound. There is nothing like that in Catholicism.

And yes, in our history some bad Catholics have done some bad things. We are aware of that and we condemn that, and we wish they had followed Catholic teachings instead.

And those things don’t justify you making careless and untrue posts about it, or qualify you to say that OT deeds that did happen are things Chritians should do. You are not a Christian authority, and the more you try to be, the less credible you seem as a Hindu authority.