[QUOTE=Indra Deva;46498]How many face-palms do you need to post in a week???
Here, this is for you. All face-palm abusers should get some: [/QUOTE]
Thank you so much. It just might help...But most of the time, I use the
Trademark*
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;46502]Thank you so much. It just might help...But most of the time, I use the
Trademark*[/QUOTE]
That's nice, but I don't really care about what methods antisemites use to de-stress.
(though banging your head against inanimate objects seems appropriate considering what you've posted around here)
I have decided to stop debating you on the meaning of anti-Semitism and from now on, responding to posts accusing me of being anti-Semitic. It is clear your ties with those who are Jewish (girlfriend and daughters) are coloring your thoughts and actions. I don’t blame you for that though since it is completely natural and thus, have no animosity for you because of your accusations.
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;46685]I have decided to stop debating you on the meaning of anti-Semitism and from now on, responding to posts accusing me of being anti-Semitic. It is clear your ties with those who are Jewish (girlfriend and daughters) are coloring your thoughts and actions. I don’t blame you for that though since it is completely natural and thus, have no animosity for you because of your accusations.[/QUOTE]
See, I believe that antisemites don’t get to define what antisemitism is. You think that you can define antisemitism. You can’t.
Otherwise, the entire rest of the board gets to define anti-Hindu and anti-Indian. You lose and we win.
(of course, we’re already doing that but you just don’t get it) :lol:
It looks like the debate on this thread was initiated by a Hindu group in USA and is
fiercely debated even in major USA newspapers:
Scholars have reasons to believe that the origin of yoga was before any civilization, during the Stone Age Shamanism:
Osho about yoga
Yoga is NOT a religion.
Yoga is NOT a philosophy.
Yoga is a pure science, the mathematics of inner being:
http://www.messagefrommasters.com/oshoyoga/osho_patanjali_yoga_science.htm
If Hinduism is a religion and/or philosophy and yoga is neither religion nor philosophy,
how can be yoga Hinduism ?
[QUOTE=oak333;49024]Osho about yoga
Yoga is NOT a religion.
Yoga is NOT a philosophy.
Yoga is a pure science, the mathematics of inner being:
http://www.messagefrommasters.com/oshoyoga/osho_patanjali_yoga_science.htm
If Hinduism is a religion and/or philosophy and yoga is neither religion nor philosophy,
how can be yoga Hinduism ?[/QUOTE]
Can you actually think for yourself and not take the words of a mentally deranged Indian philosopher (convicted for illegally entering countries, poisoning the water of a competing community, saying that the world would end in the 1970’s due to AIDS, thinking he was another Buddha, and what not)? Oh wait, I forgot. Christianity kills the individualism and the intellect of its practitioners.
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;49027]Can you actually think for yourself and not take the words of a mentally deranged Indian philosopher (convicted for illegally entering countries, poisoning the water of a competing community, saying that the world would end in the 1970’s due to AIDS, thinking he was another Buddha, and what not)? Oh wait, I forgot. Christianity kills the individualism and the intellect of its practitioners.[/QUOTE]
What mass religion doesn’t “kill individualism and intellect”??? I can’t think of one.
Let me put this thread to rest… No Yoga is not Hinduism, and Hinduism is not Yoga. If they where the same thing, we’d only need to use one word to describe it.
[QUOTE=YogiAdam;49048]Let me put this thread to rest… No Yoga is not Hinduism, and Hinduism is not Yoga. If they where the same thing, we’d only need to use one word to describe it.[/QUOTE]
Yoga shares characteristics of Hinduism and is a part of Hinduism. Hinduism is not Yoga; it is akin to saying the chicken is the egg. Objectively speaking, it is not.
You’re right; if Physics was one thing, we would only need one word to describe its many branches. Why do we have such terms like Newtonian Mechanics, Relativity, Electromagnetism, Waves, Optics, Quantum Mechanics, Fluid Mechanics, Hydrodynamics, etc? The fact that we have many terms to describe the branches of physics proves that the branches themselves are not Physics. Bravo. Nice logic you have going there.
Yoga is NOT a religion
http://www.swamij.com/religion.htm#quoteslinks
The report includes the opinions of many highly regarded gurus, like Swami Sivannada, Swami Rama, T K V Desikachar et al.
Moreover, it discusses the definition of religion.
:eek:[QUOTE=Nietzsche;49168]Yoga shares characteristics of Hinduism and is a part of Hinduism. Hinduism is not Yoga; it is akin to saying the chicken is the egg. Objectively speaking, it is not.
[/QUOTE]
Yoga, in my opinion is a path, a process if you want to call it so. It gives various steps towards the achievement of self realisation. One may or may not believe in God, but even the most agnostic of mankind do have a sneaky feeling that there is some power which has created us all. Yoga is the process by which one may unite oneself with this power. Whether one has a religion or not is immaterial. Just like taking the highway from Delhi to Mumbai will finally reach you to Mumbai , if you follow all the signs , (irrespective of your belief in the existence of Mumbai, the yogic path will lead you to the realisation of the self, providing the path is meticulously followed.
The issue of whether it is a religion or not is immaterial for the effectiveness of the process.
Yoga, in my opinion is a path, a process if you want to call it so. It gives various steps towards the achievement of self realisation. One may or may not believe in God, but even the most agnostic of mankind do have a sneaky feeling that there is some power which has created us all. Yoga is the process by which one may unite oneself with this power. Whether one has a religion or not is immaterial. Just like taking the highway from Delhi to Mumbai will finally reach you to Mumbai , if you follow all the signs , (irrespective of your belief in the existence of Mumbai, the yogic path will lead you to the realisation of the self, providing the path is meticulously followed.
The issue of whether it is a religion or not is immaterial for the effectiveness of the process.[/QUOTE]
I agree. But this is a debate on the affiliation of Yoga and not on whether its effectiveness is in any way undermined by its association. Besides, even if it is a part of Hinduism (which it is), I don’t see why people would turn around and say it isn’t when it is immaterial to the effectiveness of Yoga. Such statements only reveal the anti-Hindu/Indian bias of the practitioners.
So Yoga is not Hinduism. I’m glad we got that all cleared up 
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;49791]I agree. But this is a debate on the affiliation of Yoga and not on whether its effectiveness is in any way undermined by its association. Besides, even if it is a part of Hinduism (which it is), I don’t see why people would turn around and say it isn’t when it is immaterial to the effectiveness of Yoga. Such statements only reveal the anti-Hindu/Indian bias of the practitioners.[/QUOTE]
Yes, going by the fact that Yoga originated in India and was used as a plank to acheive self realisation, which I suppose is also the ultimate aim of Hinduisim, it can definitely be said that Yoga is an integral part of Hinduism. I dont think any amount of semantics can take away from that fact. A lot of effort seems to have been expended on proving that it is not so. That by itself is a proof of how effective the Yogis of yore have been.
What we can debate on is how many other religions envisage acheivement of divinity during this life span. And how the yogic path applies to them.
I don’t expect to ever achieve “divinity” through my religion, since God is the Divinty and I am not. I’m just a creature. The best I could hope for is to be “god-like.”
[QUOTE=thomas;49858]I don’t expect to ever achieve “divinity” through my religion, since God is the Divinty and I am not. I’m just a creature. The best I could hope for is to be “god-like.”[/QUOTE]
I appreciate that , Thomas. That is the point I was making. While I am not debating on the merits of any religion, Hinduisim has as its basic concept that man is essentially divine. and that the purpose of life is to acheive this divinity. The process is best explained by the following immortal words from the Avadhuta Gita:-
" ghate bhinnae ghataakansham sulinam bheda vivarjitam,
Shivane manasa shuddhoh na bhedhah pratibhati mae"
—> When the pot is broken, the space within the pot gets absorbed in the infinite space and there remains no difference.
Similarily, When the mind becomes pure, there remains no difference between the individual soul and the universal soul.
Yoga is the process defined to break the pot ! It is therefore esentially a part of Hinduism- It could be accurate to say that the Yoga was created /invented whatever by Hindu yogis. No one disputes that it can be used by people having different faiths or even no faith to achieve the same goal. But it definitely has its place as part of Hinduism. The facts that non Hindus also find it useful does not make it a non Hindu practice.
[QUOTE=thomas;49858]I don’t expect to ever achieve “divinity” through my religion, since God is the Divinty and I am not. I’m just a creature. The best I could hope for is to be “god-like.”[/QUOTE]
Don’t expect to “achieve divinity”, rather seek to “realize divinity”.
You see, I would go even further than the statement, “Yoga is an integeral part of Hinduism” and say Yoga IS Hinduism. Yoga is not just the practices like morality, postures, breathing, concentration, meditation, visualization, because these practices are not at all just specific to Yoga. These practices can be found in all traditions in the world and everybody has a different way of doing them. To claim that these practices are Yoga in and of themselves, is just plain silly.
This is like claiming concentrating at school is Yoga or daydreaming is Yoga or doing household chores is Yoga. There are ignorant people who claim pretty much everything is Yoga and they post on this forum as well, and they are simply just plain silly. They use the word Yoga as an unbrella term to describe every possible human activity: the yoga of sex, the yoga of gardening, the yoga of cooking, the yoga of football. When used like this Yoga means absolutely nothing.
What makes Yoga yoga is the actual doctrines of Hinduism.
- Atman and Braman
The union of the individual soul with the supersoul or the ultimate reality or the divine. This is coded into the word Yoga itself. In fact you simply cannot use this word without denoting this meaning. This is the denotative meaing of the word. The more precise and scientific definition given by Patanjali is “Yoga is the cessation of the modifications of the mind, in order to reveal the true self in its pure nature” This basically envisages the self to be covered by several layers of the modifications of mind, very much like the sun is covered by clouds or a diamond by coal(popular analogies used by yogis).
This doctrine automatically excludes every other religion. Judaism, Christianity and Islam do not believe one can merge into divinity(other than heretical gnostic sects) It is considered one of the anthemas in Christianity as codified by the Roman catholic church. Islam is even more staunchly against it. It also includes Buddhism, which does not believe in a self or an ultimate divine reality.
But whether people on this forum like it or not - this doctrine of merger into the divine cannot be taken out of Yoga. It is codified in the word itself.
- Dharma
The immutable laws and principles which operate in the universe, which can be discovered and which prescribe action. If one goes against these laws and principles they suffer. Again the meaning is coded into the word itself. It means the natural order of something or the distiniguishing properties of the being of something. Everything has a dharma from a blade of grass to the human being. The human beings dharma is divine and hence he is prescribed by his natural order to be divine. If he is not divine, then he is not fulfilling his dharma. Hence Yoga is prescribed by nature itself for man.
This doctrine excludes the Abrahamic religions. In Abrahamic religions it is not believed that ones nature is divine. Rather it is believed that human beings are born in sin and they must be saved, atoned or made good. To consider that the human being is divine is sacreligious. I cannot with a straight face go up to a Christian pastor or Muslim imam and say “Humans are divine”
- Karma and reincarnation
The law of cause and effect is dharma in action. All things have a natural order and if one goes against the natural order of something, entails a reaction. If one is in perfect resonance with the natural order there is no reaction. There is only a reaction when one goes against the order of something. The human being’s nature is divine, but its actions are against the divine, so it incurs reactions. These reactions will continue until it has not realised its divinity.
This doctrine exlcudes the Abrahamic religions. There is no law of cause and effect in these religions, all is done by god’s will. The divine will reward or punish one for their actions at judgement day. The human being has free abandon to do whatever they want because they have free will given by god. Then at death, these actions will be reviewed by god and if god is pleased then one will go heaven, otherwise hell for eternity.
- Samkhya
The evolution of the universe and its various planes of reality: gross, subtle and causal and how mind and matter manifest in the universe from pure consciousness… The science of discerning between pure consciousness and mind and matter. The cycles of evolution of all things. These are again central concepts in Yoga which deals with the mechanics of the subtle body(prana, chakras, nadis) and all Yoga exercises work with these subtle mechanics in some way or the other, for one purpose only: to get them function properly to reawaken the divine nature of humans.
The doctrine of Samkhya is completely absent in Abrahamic religions. First and foremost they are dualist and realist(yoga is idealist) They see the physical world as an actual place and heaven and hell as actual places existing in two different worlds. The angels and demons exist in the other world alongside god and the souls of deceased humans. The conception of time is completely linear having a creation at point A and an end at point B. There is no conception of things existing on a contuum of planes of reality(gross, subtle, causal) and hence no mechanics of the subtle body.
In other words Yoga is mutually exclusive of all other religions except Hinduism. It only makes sense within the context of Hinduism.