Kundalini Meditation?

Mindfulness Meditation
#13

[QUOTE=makar;56395]? For some reason when I meditate,it seems breathing doesn’t happen automatically for me? I have to consciously inhale and exhale.What should I do to free my mind from breathing and that I remain unconscious of my breathing like it is during other activities throughout the day??

Is it that the meditation done for Kundalini is different from normal meditation? Or the meditation is same for whatever purpose it is done?

Is meditation only the stillness/clearance of the mind during meditation? Or it has something more to it? I don’t mean the benefits of meditation but with what goes on during meditation.

How do you still your mind? You might be following a certain approach/technique for this? When I clear my mind of any thoughts,I still think that ok I have cleared my mind now.How do I deal with this? There should be nothing going on in my mind during meditation,right? How do you do this?[/QUOTE]

[B][I]“Dhyanam Nirvishayam Manaha”[/I][/B] is the sanskrit definition of meditation. It means, when the mind is free from the objects of the senses, meditation occurs.

Regards
Anand

#14

Anand,

“Dhyanam Nirvishayam Manaha” is the sanskrit definition of meditation. It means, when the mind is free from the objects of the senses, meditation occurs."

It may be the case for one who is seeking an escape from the mind and the senses. Otherwise, for one who has integrated a meditative consciousness - whether hearing, smelling, seeing, tasting, touching, sitting down silently or involved in a storm of action - the stream of meditation continues. Meditation does not mean an escape from the senses, it simply means to be capable of remaining a witness from moment to moment without identifying with whatsoever may arise in your experience. Even if a million and one thoughts pass by the scene of the mind - one can remain an observer, seeing without judgment. That can be done anywhere, one need not go into a deep samadhi for it - although the same approach will take you into a deep samadhi. That is why one Zen master Hakuin has said, that meditation in activity far surpasses meditation in stillness. Because while you are involved in activity - you can become disturbed by any number of things. The possibility of entanglement is enormous. If you can remain centered and grounded even while involved in the world, then you can remain in the world but not of the world, in the mind but not of the mind.

#15

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;60233]Anand,

“Dhyanam Nirvishayam Manaha” is the sanskrit definition of meditation. It means, when the mind is free from the objects of the senses, meditation occurs."

It may be the case for one who is seeking an escape from the mind and the senses. Otherwise, for one who has integrated a meditative consciousness - whether hearing, smelling, seeing, tasting, touching, sitting down silently or involved in a storm of action - the stream of meditation continues. Meditation does not mean an escape from the senses, it simply means to be capable of remaining a witness from moment to moment without identifying with whatsoever may arise in your experience. Even if a million and one thoughts pass by the scene of the mind - one can remain an observer, seeing without judgment. That can be done anywhere, one need not go into a deep samadhi for it - although the same approach will take you into a deep samadhi. That is why one Zen master Hakuin has said, that meditation in activity far surpasses meditation in stillness. Because while you are involved in activity - you can become disturbed by any number of things. The possibility of entanglement is enormous. If you can remain centered and grounded even while involved in the world, then you can remain in the world but not of the world, in the mind but not of the mind.[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

For “meditation in activity” to take place one must attain “vairagya” or dispassion.

However, for someone to attain this state, the “samskaras”, must thin out and vanish, since they are the source of all “vasanas” i.e. the sense gratifying tendencies.

For this to happen, either the mind or the prana or the veerya has to be stilled, because only then the prana will flow through the middle path known as “sushumna”. So the word “escape” would be a misnomer here.

Even after kundalini awakening, ordinary persons like me would have to spend years or even several births for “kundalini” to reach the “sahasrar” or the thousand petalled cahkra at the crown of the head. As you must be knowing, this is verily the divine union of “shakti” and “shiva”.

After this divine union (or enlightenment), both “shiva” and “shakti” descend together and such a person is known as “Avataar”.

Only such an “Avataar”, even though he or she may appear no different from the rest, can be in “meditation while in activity”. Many of us may mistake extreme concentration and involvement in a particular activity as meditation. This is not so. The commonest example in this regard would be “carnal bliss”.

I don’t know about you, but I have a long way to go.

Regards, anand

#16

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56748]Seeker,

It seems that there is not even a single word that can be said which is not of the vast graveyard of dead knowledge you have collected into your mind. Hiding one’s ignorance behind quotations, these borrowed voices have been hypnotzing one for far too long.[/QUOTE]

Wow,

listen folks , a new Buddha is born with fresh knowledge and is not the voice of the long dead. who thinks patanjali’s teachings were hypnotic.

he who hides behind the big words like awareness, centering…himself. who, in self confused state tries to confuse others. who himself borrows from long dead zen masters,

long live the modern zen master, …master amir.

#17

[QUOTE=makar;56395]• For some reason when I meditate,it seems breathing doesn’t happen automatically for me? I have to consciously inhale and exhale.What should I do to free my mind from breathing and that I remain unconscious of my breathing like it is during other activities throughout the day??

Is it that the meditation done for Kundalini is different from normal meditation? Or the meditation is same for whatever purpose it is done?

Is meditation only the stillness/clearance of the mind during meditation? Or it has something more to it? I don’t mean the benefits of meditation but with what goes on during meditation.

How do you still your mind? You might be following a certain approach/technique for this? When I clear my mind of any thoughts,I still think that ok I have cleared my mind now.How do I deal with this? There should be nothing going on in my mind during meditation,right? How do you do this?[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

My Guru says “Rather than “doing” meditation; Let meditation happen”.

Breathing is always automatic. In fact, breathing is the movement of Life Force known as [I]Prana,[/I] the Universal Divine Mother. During meditation, [B]let[/B] yourself be in HER care at least for some time.

The best way is to first relax the body completely and offer the breathing process, i.e. the Divine Mother, [B]full liberty.[/B] Do not [B]“do”[/B] anything yourself.

Simply Feel the Mother Air (Prana) going in and out of the body.

This way, by merging all thoughts in only and only the Divine Air Mother, real meditation happens spontaneously.

best, anand

#18

prasad,

“listen folks , a new Buddha is born with fresh knowledge and is not the voice of the long dead. who thinks patanjali’s teachings were hypnotic”

As unconscious as you are, you still think it to be a matter of knowledge. It has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge - but with being. Either you have realized in your perception a state of being which is capable of liberating the mind from the root causes of one’s sufferings, or you have remained asleep. And the difference between the two is not much - one has open eyes, the other has closed eyes. As far as their beings are concerned, there is absolutely no difference between the two - but as far as their perception is concerned - they are dimensions apart.

“he who hides behind the big words”

What I am saying is simple and straightforward. If you are interested in the yogic sciences in any way which is not just borrowed knowledge, then move beyond your knowledge, start practicing, and take the practice to it’s very innermost core.

“who, in self confused state tries to confuse others. who himself borrows from long dead zen masters”

You are already confused enough as it is, you do not need my help.

#19

To meditate is ‘to remain in the awareness of’. Its pre-requisite is to concentrate, that is ‘to bring one’s attention to one thing and hold it there’ …i like… i want to talk more about this.

I started meditating by focusing on my breath. Thats all i did. i let the monkeys in my mind chatter as i simply breathed. 4 beats in four beats out. eventually the chatter kind of fades to the back. actually before i could focus on my breath, i had to work at being comfortable sitting up straight.

i started meditating at 16, and practicing the 8 limbs. i did this for 4 years untill i found kundalini yoga, were i was able to experiens bliss, simadi. and i dont reach it every time, but when i do, the next step is to be able to mantian that state of being, even when im not meditating.

i like to think of meditation as practice for the real meditation of being a consiuos beinging conected with the infinit.

babies calling

#20

greentrees,

“To meditate is ‘to remain in the awareness of’. Its pre-requisite is to concentrate, that is ‘to bring one’s attention to one thing and hold it there’ …i like… i want to talk more about this.”

Focusing the mind on a single point is one approach, there are other means to enter into meditation which do not involve restricting the mind onto a single object but remaining aware as to whatever may arise in your experience from moment to moment, without focusing the mind on anything in particular. Like a river stream constantly changing, you allow the mind to flow freely according to it’s tendencies - but remaining a witness without clinging as to whatever is happening in your experience.

#21

amir,
‘according to it’s tendencies’

The key word is tendencies of the mind, the varrties,
patanjali starts with the methods to get rid of these before one is fit enough to enter meditation. you can not get rid of them by just watching, being witness. you have do something.

#22

patanjali starts with the methods to get rid of these before one is fit enough to enter meditation. you can not get rid of them by just watching, being witness. you have do something.

You are referring to all of the countless methods of preparation for meditation yes ? The various asanas, pranayam, mudras, kriyas, bandhas, and so on. That is not the only way to deal with the problem, though it is helpful. One does not need all of this preparation in order to practice meditation, one can sit for meditation directly. That is what most of the Buddhists have been doing. And in Raja Yoga, that is originally how it has been. Throughout the whole Yoga Sutras, you will find that Patanjali has not mentioned anywhere even a single word about the different asanas, pranayam, mudras, kriyas, bandhas, and so on - he simply describes techniques which are to do with the mind. As far as the more physical techniques are concerned - at the most he simply says that the asana, the seat in which one is sitting for meditation, should be stable, balanced, and firm. He does not go into it more than that. Most of the Buddhists also do not do any preperatory work for meditation. But if one deals with the mind directly and tries to work on meditation - the difference is that one will have to encounter the same obstacles through the mind. With Hatha Yoga as preparation for meditation, one is trying to indirectly bring about a change at the level of the mind through the body, with Raja Yoga one is trying to bring about a change at the level of the mind directly through the mind, that is the only difference. Neither approach is absolute, they are simply different approaches.

#23

amir,

If one has to reach 2nd floor, a wise man will take stairs.
He will never try to pole vault.
If he were you, who knows he might reach.

#24

If one has to reach 2nd floor, a wise man will take stairs.

To reach a physically higher level through stairs may be useful if you are in a place like New York city, but it will not be such a good idea if you are in the midst of the Himalayas.

#25

A journey of thousand miles, or to Himalayas, begins with first step then another then another…

#26

amir,

don’t you think, this kinda discussion is waste of time.

#27

prasad,

As far as I am concerned, nothing is a waste of time. But as far as you are concerned, whether it is a waste of time or not all depends on whether you are receptive enough.

#28

[QUOTE=makar;56395]? For some reason when I meditate,it seems breathing doesn’t happen automatically for me? I have to consciously inhale and exhale.What should I do to free my mind from breathing and that I remain unconscious of my breathing like it is during other activities throughout the day??

Is it that the meditation done for Kundalini is different from normal meditation? Or the meditation is same for whatever purpose it is done?

Is meditation only the stillness/clearance of the mind during meditation? Or it has something more to it? I don’t mean the benefits of meditation but with what goes on during meditation.

How do you still your mind? You might be following a certain approach/technique for this? When I clear my mind of any thoughts,I still think that ok I have cleared my mind now.How do I deal with this? There should be nothing going on in my mind during meditation,right? How do you do this?[/QUOTE]

through practice. It is not going to hapen in a few times it takes allot of practice. It is all part of the process you have to go through the difficult times to enjoy the fun ones.

keep practicing and just realx through it. The first time I did a meditation 5 minutes seemed like an hour now 20 minutes seems like 2 just enjoy the process and dont focus in the outcome

#29

I’ve read your article. It’s quite nice, I am completely convinced with his thoughts. The benefit of the meditation is, improve the body luster and general health-When your mind focuses on a particular part of the body. Meditation can help you activate this relaxation response. When you feel depressed, hear Gayatri Mantra and chant Om fifty times and you will be filled with new vigor and strength. And the chanting of Om is also a powerful tonic. Thanks for this post.

#30

“When you feel depressed, hear Gayatri Mantra and chant Om fifty times and you will be filled with new vigor and strength.”

You can sit for eternities chanting mantras, but as long as it is simply a mechanical process - it is fruitless. No amount of repetition is a substitute for your own spontaneous awareness, and a mantra is only going to be useful if there is a certain one-pointedness of attention which is flowing behind it. And if you are focused on how many times you chant a mantra, then you are not really focused upon the mantra. That is the problem when you take things too literally - one misses the essential matter. When it has been recommended to repeat, for example, the Gayatri mantra one hundred times, this has just been said to give you an estimate of how long it may take for your awareness to become one-pointed onto the mantra. If your inner space is prepared for it - then just repeating a mantra once is enough to enter into a deep samadhi. Or, if you receptivity is deeper, then you do not have to repeat the mantra even once.

#31

[QUOTE=makar;56395]? For some reason when I meditate,it seems breathing doesn’t happen automatically for me? I have to consciously inhale and exhale.What should I do to free my mind from breathing and that I remain unconscious of my breathing like it is during other activities throughout the day??

Is it that the meditation done for Kundalini is different from normal meditation? Or the meditation is same for whatever purpose it is done?

Is meditation only the stillness/clearance of the mind during meditation? Or it has something more to it? I don’t mean the benefits of meditation but with what goes on during meditation.

How do you still your mind? You might be following a certain approach/technique for this? When I clear my mind of any thoughts,I still think that ok I have cleared my mind now.How do I deal with this? There should be nothing going on in my mind during meditation,right? How do you do this?[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

Breathing is the movement of Prana, the divine [B]living[/B] force which drives the body and the mind. Hence it is the superior aspect.

Thus in Mahayoga, during meditation, one simply and totally surrenders to the automatic breathing, i.e. to Prana. One [B]lets[/B] Prana Shakti start or stop the breathing.

In fact, if your breathing stops, it would mean that Prana has become still and so has the mind. Now, if the mind is functionless, it means ego is also functionless.

During sittings, let Prana~Shakti do what she wants. So do not try to impose any breathing. Mahayoga says, during sadhan, [B]allow[/B] all involuntary movements to take place. These are the ego-less actions known as [I][B]Mahayoga-kriyas.[/B][/I]

Even terminating a mahayoga meditation session is left to the [B]grace of [I]Prana~Shakti[/I].[/B]

So it seems, you are on to something good.

regards, anand

#32

Hey, great story and a good problem for starters to start analyzing. Breathing comes from meditation, and meditation comes from breathing. The more you think the less you know, the more you think about your breath the less you are breathing. Stop thinking & enjoy :smiley: