Meditation changes physiological responses

Mindfulness Meditation
#14

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;51081]I’ve meditated in savasana. Was I imagining things?[/QUOTE]

I don’t know. But it is rare that one enters into meditation through shavasana. What often happens because of the way the posture works on your system is either a deep pratyahara (sensory withdrawal) or an entry into sleep. And it is very easy to mistake either as meditation. But, certainly it is possible for one to be in shavasana and remain in a meditative consciousness, but it is likely that one would have already integrated meditation from moment to moment in daily living. Then, regardless of the posture, regardless of one’s environment, everything can be included as part of one’s meditation, to be meditative becomes one’s very nature, one’s very fragrance.

#15

Amir is right. Meditation is not the same as contemplation, rather it is the opposite of contemplation, where a state is created which is absent of all thought. If one is thinking during meditation they are not meditating. This is why meditation is often described as a listening or watching activity. You listen and watch what is going on in your mind without thinking about it.

It is possible to meditate in shavasana, but difficult. Most yoga instructers advise one not to meditate in shavasana because the posture can induce sleep quite easily. This posture is deliberaly used in another Yogic practice called Yoga Nidra(Yogic sleep) to deeply relax the body. The aim of meditation is not to relax your body completely, but rather to remain alert and watchful of what is happening in your mind. Thus they serve different functions.

#16

you’re right Amir, I’m not real big on the meditation stuff. Reaching Nirvana is not a goal of mine. I have noticed changes in my persona from asana practice. But again, thats not a goal, my goal upon getting into asana was to correct or minimize muscle imbalances, and tightness. Basically I do asana for its fitness benefits.

By the way, I’m not going to fall asleep in savasana when I’m cranking music loud enough to shake the neighbors house.:smiley:

#17

yall two just keep diggin your hole deeper and deeper and deeper

#18

[QUOTE=The Scales;51190]yall two just keep diggin your hole deeper and deeper and deeper[/QUOTE]

LOL
no shit.

I just don’t like it when someone tells me their way is the only way.

#19

[QUOTE=The Blind Guy;51200]LOL
no shit.

I just don’t like it when someone tells me their way is the only way.[/QUOTE]

Same here.

Because I know ‘my way’ is the only way!

joke…

#20

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51167]Amir is right. Meditation is not the same as contemplation, rather it is the opposite of contemplation, where a state is created which is absent of all thought. If one is thinking during meditation they are not meditating. This is why meditation is often described as a listening or watching activity. You listen and watch what is going on in your mind without thinking about it.

It is possible to meditate in shavasana, but difficult. Most yoga instructers advise one not to meditate in shavasana because the posture can induce sleep quite easily. This posture is deliberaly used in another Yogic practice called Yoga Nidra(Yogic sleep) to deeply relax the body. The aim of meditation is not to relax your body completely, but rather to remain alert and watchful of what is happening in your mind. Thus they serve different functions.[/QUOTE]

Yoga meditation is concentration on God. Putting the body to sleep while keeping the mind awake is just about the only way I know of to enter in into Pratyahara. Even then you can still hear, but the sounds are muted. Once you are in this state your concentration isn’t nearly as easily broken. When that concentration is focused solley on God, or Om, or any aspect of God it becomes meditation. All the fancy semantics are silly.

Meditation also means to sit and watch you breath. It also means to sit and observe your thoughts. It also mean sit focus on the space around you.

Arguing over this would be like Organic Chemists trying to reclaim the word organic.

Meditation has a lot of meanings today, but in yoga meditation means perfect concentration on God. IMHO. Thus the the word Yoga which means Union.

But hey keep worrying about all the details… instead of focusing on the only thing that matters…figuring out what you are.

#21

[QUOTE=The Blind Guy;51200]LOL
no shit.

I just don’t like it when someone tells me their way is the only way.[/QUOTE]

This is why you don’t learn :wink:

You have no problem when somebody tells you that H20 is water, the battle of hastings was in 1066, and such and such area of your brain corresponds to such and such function, but you have a problem when somebody tells you meditation is the act of thoughtless awareness and that lying down whilst mediatating is likely to induce sleep because of the effect this posture has on the nervous system.

You are your own enemy when it comes to expanding your mind and growing in knowledge.

#22

Yoga meditation is concentration on God. Putting the body to sleep while keeping the mind awake is just about the only way I know of to enter in into Pratyahara. Even then you can still hear, but the sounds are muted. Once you are in this state your concentration isn’t nearly as easily broken. When that concentration is focused solley on God, or Om, or any aspect of God it becomes meditation. All the fancy semantics are silly.

I hear you.

Although I would argue about the semantics of what you mean by Yoga is meditation on god? Patanjali does mention meditation on god as being one of the highest types of meditation, but he certainly does not limit meditation to meditation on god. He also describes meditations on breath, inner-space, subtle centres etc. You can pretty much choose any object for your meditation.

#23

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;51351]This is why you don’t learn :wink:

You have no problem when somebody tells you that H20 is water, the battle of hastings was in 1066, and such and such area of your brain corresponds to such and such function, but you have a problem when somebody tells you meditation is the act of thoughtless awareness and that lying down whilst mediatating is likely to induce sleep because of the effect this posture has on the nervous system.

You are your own enemy when it comes to expanding your mind and growing in knowledge.[/QUOTE]

LOL
no I don’t learn. I don’t need to, I already know everything.:stuck_out_tongue:

Usually the ones who say there is only one path to a destination are religous zealots, and tyrannical dicators.

Perhaps you should try my method of meditation. Sitting in the woods, by a tree with a gun in your hand. Or sitting in a boat on a quiet morning with a fishing rod in your hand.

You’re right I can’t see well enough to shoot anymore, but the experience is what counts.

#24

Sitting in the woods, by a tree with a gun in your hand. Or sitting in a boat on a quiet morning with a fishing rod in your hand

They are not meditations. Meditation is a formal activity where you enter into thoughtless awareness by the means of focussing your mind one something and maintaining that focus and watching your mind. Then gradually, your consciousness begins to shift inwards and you enter into altered states. If you maintain the focus long enough you can go into very deep states of consciousness leading to radical shifts in the perception of reality.

Usually the ones who say there is only one path to a destination are religous zealots, and tyrannical dicators.

Again, you do not say this to your history teacher who told you the Battle of Hastings was in 1066 or your chemistry teacher who tells you H20 is water, or your biology teacher who teaches you about the anatomy of the brain and the functions of various lobes. You are only saying this to the Yoga teacher who is telling you that certain bodily postures will elicit certain effects(such as lying down will induce sleep) and certain mental techniques will produce certain results.

Listen to your Yoga teachers and to experienced yogis. They know more about Yoga than you do. If you don’t listen, well like I said, you are your own enemy when it comes to expanding in knowledge. If I had that attitude when I was at school I would have learned nothing.

#25

The difference here is you are comparing scientific fact to theology.

Lets compare apples to apples. Thats akin to saying anyone who isn’t Catholic is going to hell.

Lets face it, yoga and its spiritual mumbo jumbo is in fact theology.

You are in fact correct about yoga teachers and experienced yogis know more about yoga than me. We can agree on that. LOL

I’m not dismissing your belief by any means. However you are dismissing mine as it does not correspond with yours.

#26

[QUOTE=By the way, I’m not going to fall asleep in savasana when I’m cranking music loud enough to shake the neighbors house.:D[/QUOTE]

Blind Guy,

Perhaps. Or perhaps you may create an astral party. : )

#27

gnulnx,

One should discrimination between the objects of concentration one is using as a means to enter into meditation, and meditation itself.

#28

Wooo Whoooo Wooo Whoooo Woooo WHooooo

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

“You! Drop your word usage! SEMANTICS POLICE!!!”

“son you failed to use the term properly now I must school about my system and what the proper usage is!”

(insert longwinded boring diatribe here)

#29

[QUOTE=silkofos;50912]Hi everybody ,
I m a guy from greece (so excuse my bad enlish) and the last days I have had some strange experiences coming out of meditation. There have been 3 months that I meditate on my breath according to the vipassana Osho describes in the Orange book. The last week I tried to focus to the third eye. The first time i lost the sense of my body and this scared me. In the past (5 years ago) I used to meditate and I had reached the void without any fear or problem. These days i used to smoke weed every day and at some time extremely fast hartbeats made me quit meditating. I thought that it was a symptom of meditation . How stupid eh? Anyway…in the present the void scared me I suppose because I have been far more attached to common reality through all these years…
When I was 13-15 years old I had some other strange experiences such as numbness in the head and the feeling that I was seeing my self from above while playin basketball or in the class…these days I described the fact to my mother and see said we had to visit a doctor. The doctor said that there was not enough blood to the brain and every time this strange feeling was on its onset, i should put my head below the level of my heart so that blood will flow there. And so I did. Strange excperiences never again occured until the last week.
I tried to focus to the third eye and after 2 hours my brain started to be in the same kind of numbness…I visualised that I am slipping out of my head and something like a whirlpool in the top of my head started to suck all the energy that was accumulated in my head…Then I remembered this state and get scared again in the potential of a similar excperience(what a chicken#@!). The next day I tried it again and the heartbeat got out of control.
Now I read about oboe everywhere and I have a feeling of numbness again all day long in the back lower part of my head. It seems that with every exhale this part of the head gets more and more energy. When I try to do vipassana all the energy goes there unwillingly. I have to put strong effort to drive the energy to a different point of my body… Is there any possibility this energy to cause damage to my physical body? Why is thing accumulating in the head?
Thanks you for your attention.[/QUOTE]

Your calm abiding or power of concentration is good. Your dealing with things that you are unfamilar with thus the being scared. I know they are scary. It is not my place to say what is happening to you when you do these things on this forum in the open place or even in private message. As I am not your guru and these things are not common knowledge. I will discuss it no further. Don’t ask.

Now the helpful advice!

Power of concentration is fine and dandy - it is a very nice tool to have. You should balance your practice with special insight i.e. wisdom.

You may want to look into zen and it’s sitting practices and read up on Kensho, study the koans, and read the words of the patriarchs.

Within the Mahayana the topic is primarily “emptiness.” but also one should look into the paramitas or 'perfections, and study the lam rim, and read the words set down by those of the precious white dynasty. (the gurus/lamas and so on . . . )

If your already doing all this then I have nothing more to add.

Your doing good! keep going.

#30

No, I am comparing one science to another science. The examples I gave were history, chemistry, biology and physics. There is another science called Yoga, which is based on similar peer reviewed information. The subject of chemistry is chemical reactions, the subject of biology is the anatomy and the subject of physics is the physical world. The subject of Yoga is the human mind and its relationship with the body.

In Yoga one investigates ones own mind and the relationship between physical postures, breathing exercises and mental exercises on the mind through direct hands on experience.

Why would you readily accept knowledge from other sciences, but dismiss knowledge from yoga science?

#31

Anyway, I’ve done a bit of learning and it is acceptable to meditate lying down. In fact, it’s advisable for newbies.

#32

What needs to be realized here is that not everyone can meditate in Padmasana or Sukhasana due to medical issues. If someone is dedicated to learning how to meditate and can differentiate between the mind state in shavasana and meditation, then it makes no difference what the position is.

And what of Buddhist walking meditation? A trained mind can do both. Isn’t the goal to be in a constant state of meditation?

I have some students who have injuries that will not allow them to sit for long periods. I encourage those students to lay in shavasana for meditation. If a teacher is skilled enough they can effectively communicate and teach that student how to meditate in that position. The will to learn must also be present from the students end.

It is unfortunate that there are far too many yoga classes that skip meditation altogether. (at least here in the States) And those that do teach and practice meditation have time limits placed upon them. My classes know the pranayam practice quite well (that I’m currently teaching) and it is always encourage to maintain awareness and union with the meditation/asana practice and beyond. They have been taught several different meditation practices including vipassan, japa. If they need to be in corpse pose to effectively meditate, so be it. It is up to them to make the necessary changes to be able to meditate in this position. I can only be their guide. They also know I am always available after class (or before) to help them with any issues they may have.

#33

It's well known that meditation leads to an enhanced state of consciousness. The question is, what does it do to the body? A slew of new research shows that when we focus our attention on a particular object, hormone levels rise significantly. The most surprising result is that once we gain awareness of our present-moment emotional state, a portion of our brain associated with reflexes is switched off. When we return to baseline levels after a distraction, brain regions associated with generating feelings of exhaustion and nausea begin to quiet down.