Meditation For Beginners

Mindfulness Meditation
#23

Hi Asuri,

The practice described by Swami Rama has been used for thousands of years, and is common to practically all systems. It is based on Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras, and Patanjali was codifying practices that had been in use long before his own time. These are the people who defined what meditation is. They had words for concepts that we don’t even have in our language. So to try to practice meditation without reference to what they defined is like reinventing the wheel. If you don’t do the practice chances are you will never understand.
oh.

It’s particularly important to practice breath awareness.
Ah!

If you don’t agree that deep breathing and practicing breath awareness produces a definite calming effect, then there’s not much point in continuing the discussion.
Awwww…

What discussion. I can read that website myself.

#24

If you’re already at the stage where you can easily relax and calm the mind, then you’re not a beginner. It makes a great deal of sense to follow the system articulated by Patanjali. It is a comprehensive system that contains guidance from beginning practice through the most advanced.

One thing you will notice about Patanjali’s system is that it does not make any reference to raising energy or Kundalini, and references chakras only indirectly and in only one or two places. This is because it is based on Samkhya metaphysics. I much prefer this system because it is straightforward and unambiguous. Once you learn the terms, it is fairly obvious what they refer to and there is very little difference of opinion as to what they mean. Swami Rama’s article briefly explains the words manas, ahamkara, and buddhi. These are Samkhya terms.

A lot of confusion arises because we tend to think of the Vedic culture as monolithic when in fact there were different schools of thought. The concept of chakras and nadis is really a different metaphysical system, and in contrast, the meaning is ambiguous and there is a lot of disagreement on the details. The article posted in this thread does a good job of explaining some of the differences in philosophy.

#25

First of all, let me say that I don’t formally practice pratyahara all that often. Most of my practice involves concentration on external objects, but I do occasionally get into deeper practices. Also, pratyahara is not well understood and probably needs a separate thread to deal with it in depth, but to answer your question, yes, an unexpected noise can disturb me. I happen to know a little something about the physics of sound and I have a lot of experience working with sound. Based on that I’d say that your description of feeling a vibration or percussion is accurate. Sound is, after all, waves or vibrations at different frequencies traveling through the air. The difference in the volume of sound is actually a difference in sound pressure level and pressure is - guess what? - something that you feel. Whether or not it is a disturbance I think depends on whether it is something that is normally present in your environment or something that is unusual.

Even if you are engrossed in pratyahara though, you’re still going to hear it. Pratyahara is usually described as sense-withdrawal, but you can’t stop your ears from hearing, or your skin from feeling or your tongue from tasting. Your tongue however may not be in contact with an object of flavor. It requires a little bit of introspection and learning to discover the true meaning of pratyahara. Guidance on this can be hard to find.

#26

[QUOTE=Asuri;55651]
A lot of confusion arises because we tend to think of the Vedic culture as monolithic when in fact there were different schools of thought. [B]The concept of chakras and nadis is really a different metaphysical system,[/B] and in contrast, the meaning is ambiguous and there is a lot of disagreement on the details. The article posted in this thread does a good job of explaining some of the differences in philosophy.[/QUOTE]

Samkhya is inclusive of the chakra system. Patanjaili’s Yoga sutras only suggest them. It is up to the yogin to gain knowledge.

By using the sutras

#27

[QUOTE=The Scales;55677]Samkhya is inclusive of the chakra system. Patanjaili’s Yoga sutras only suggest them. It is up to the yogin to gain knowledge.

By using the sutras[/QUOTE]

I beg your pardon. I’ve read the entire Samkhya Pravachana Sutram and Samkhya Karika and have not found a single reference to chakras. If you’re going to make a statement like that, you need to provide chapter and verse. You know you can’t do it so I would appreciate if you do not try to derail the thread with useless controversy. The topic is meditation for beginners.

#28

[QUOTE=Asuri;55686]I beg your pardon. I’ve read the entire Samkhya Pravachana Sutram and Samkhya Karika and have not found a single reference to chakras. If you’re going to make a statement like that, you need to provide chapter and verse. You know you can’t do it so I would appreciate if you do not try to derail the thread with useless controversy. The topic is meditation for beginners.[/QUOTE]

The allusion to chakras is made in the yoga sutras thats all I know. I haven’t read the other things.

#29

One should not be too dependent upon the the words which are written in various texts and sutras. Because an enormous number of those sutras were not intended to be written for the average person, but for one who has already become initiated into the yogic sciences, particularly those kinds of methods which have been transmitted secretly. In fact, if you are just dependent upon the sutras, then it can be dangerous. Because many of the processes and methods described omit essential information which is part of the technique - which if not observed, can do more damage than good. They will reveal a certain part of the technique, but leave another part of it in the darkness. For example, in the Hatha Yoga Pradipika, it means several kriyas that are to be practiced. One of them, which involves emptying and purifying the stomach and intestines, mentions the technique, but has omitted something absolutely essential. After the practice, you are to eat some rice mixed with ghee and milk. Because through the method you are also getting rid of the stomach lining which aids the processes of digestion. To compensate for this loss - it is essential that one eats a blend of rice mixed with ghee and milk, otherwise one can start developing physical disorders.

Do not take it for granted that everything has been mentioned in these sutras. Not only is the Truth inexpressible, beyond all limiting categories of the mind, but much information has been consciously omitted. These kinds of safety gaurds were created to ensure that the practices would not be used irresponsibly simply for one’s own ego-nourishment, as well as preserve the methods. One has to understand that the majority of the yogic sciences has always been transmitted orally from master to disciple. Most of the sutras that you are reading are just a by product of certain teachings which have been transmitted in this way for centuries. And, in any sutra, it is impossible to transmit everything that has ever been said about the matter - let alone the innermost experience which is the very foundation of these teachings. It is out of transformation, that most of these teachings have been born. No amount of borrowed knowledge can work as a substitute. As long as one has yet to come to the same space - one is bound to miss the message entirely.

#30

[QUOTE=charliedharma;55635] Can you explain what the purest form of meditation is .[/QUOTE]First steps are Nirvichar and Nirvikalpa Samadhi and the last is Kaivalya.

#31

@Amir

Since this is a thread on meditation for beginners, I don’t think we need to worry too much about secretly transmitted oral teachings.

@Seeker33

For those who may be unfamiliar, Nirvichara and Nirvikalpa samadhi are advanced stages of samadhi, the highest of the eight limbs of yoga.

#32

[QUOTE=Seeker33;55792]First steps are Nirvichar and Nirvikalpa Samadhi and the last is Kaivalya.[/QUOTE]

Any “steps” are only imaginary.

That’s to say advancement or growth or whatever you want to call it does’nt necessarily happen in linear steps.

Nice to get back to some sensible discussion. There are a few loonies around here.

HaHA

#33

With the teachings you study them to learn what they say.

By practice you come to understand what they mean.

Beware of anyone telling you not to read the teachings.

Such instructions don’t come from the wise.

#34

[QUOTE=Asuri;55806]@Seeker33
For those who may be unfamiliar, Nirvichara and Nirvikalpa samadhi are advanced stages of samadhi, the highest of the eight limbs of yoga.[/QUOTE]Nirvishar and Nirvikalpa are only beginning.

#35

[QUOTE=Seeker33;55815]Nirvishar and Nirvikalpa are only beginning.[/QUOTE]

The Self Realization Fellowship, as an institution, blows your instituion away.

"The kriya yoga system from the lineage of Babaji, Shyamacharan, Yuketswar, and Yogananda is legit. "

#36

[QUOTE=The Scales;55825]The Self Realization Fellowship, as an institution, blows your instituion away.

"The kriya yoga system from the lineage of Babaji, Shyamacharan, Yuketswar, and Yogananda is legit. "[/QUOTE]

Is this what you follow Scales?

Or do you follow any particular teachings or school? Or you do your own thing/…you’re not joined at the hip or affiliated with any particular…?

#37

[QUOTE=core789;55826]Is this what you follow Scales?

Or do you follow any particular teachings or school? Or you do your own thing/…you’re not joined at the hip or affiliated with any particular…?[/QUOTE]

I think the teachings come from exceptional stock down a short line. All hand picked. Babaji, to Lahiri, to Yuketswar, to Yogananda.

From what I’ve seen the selection of techniques and placement of emphasis is right. There doesn’t appear to be complexity in their approach - rather a simplicity.

I think it very wise for the SRF to have a lead in educational program.

There is no cult to join or need to worship a guru goddess, nor do you need to take a long trip away.
It was designed for the householder which fits in well with the modern world.

Once the kriyas are explained and instructed i.e. 'you are “initiated” the focus is on working with the kriyas and learning from them the things to learn.

If I was looking for real yoga, kriya yoga, then that organization - from that lineage - is as good as it comes.

#38

as for me

I occasionally study more or less:

[I]A basterdized coputer copy of the yoga sutras, HYP, SHiva Samhita, Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, the tracks of Goraksha - and yoga upanishads - all without commentary. Some buddhist books on meditation and zen, the Bhagavad Gita, and Alain Danielou’s Yoga. I got the new testament too! [/I]

No books by modern authors unless they have an ol timey classic inside.

Don’t like commentaries - although I do keep pieces of vivekanandas commentary in with the text of the yoga sutras. He had some goodies.

Personal practice:
Little asana. Mostly inside.

#39

[QUOTE=Seeker33;55815]Nirvishar and Nirvikalpa are only beginning.[/QUOTE]

I started this thread to provide a little sane help for people who are just starting out with meditation. Your blatant promotion of this organization and the conflict and confusion it creates are not at all helpful. I agree with Scales that this organization should be avoided.

#40
#41

Hi,

I usually listen to music (of random genres) while doing both asanas & pranayams.

Listening to music during practicing asanas & pranayams usually makes me feel good.

Now, that I am attempting mediation, is it a good idea to listen to music (at low vol) or is a completely silent room more appropriate?

#42

what does iq say?