Postures for PMS/ to regulate hormones?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#21

I’d like to just add to the thread in this way.

Just because something is a caution does not mean every single person who goes against the caution will meet with ill-effect.

For example:
While it is ill-advised to continue a full ashtanga practice when pregnant, some choose to do it anyway and some of that sum have healthy pregnancies.

Additionally, since we all have many lives it is slightly narrow to dismiss wisdom based on gender. It may be that some men do not understand some things women experience and some women may not understand some things men experience. But it is rote rejection to say that all men or all women do not understand this or that ESPECIALLY when said person is connected or connecting to a deeper universal wisdom.

Understanding the energetics of the human body means understanding the forces of masculine and feminine - which have very little to do with male and female.

#22

Hooray, and thank you! I’ve been seeking after similar words.

#23

Inner Athlete, what are your thoughts on Bhujangasana and its assistance in menstrual related issues? Sivananda teachers say it is beneficial. Many Thanks.

#24

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;24582]Additionally, since we all have many lives it is slightly narrow to dismiss wisdom based on gender. It may be that some men do not understand some things women experience and some women may not understand some things men experience. But it is rote rejection to say that all men or all women do not understand this or that ESPECIALLY when said person is connected or connecting to a deeper universal wisdom.

Understanding the energetics of the human body means understanding the forces of masculine and feminine - which have very little to do with male and female.[/QUOTE]

Y’know, I feel I have to defer here. I’m afraid I am not yet aware of all my previous incarnations. I wish I was. Surely then all the expressions of male ego I see on this forum would suddenly make sense!

Additionally I agree with you that it is rote rejection to say all men or all women do not understand this or that. I did not say that. What I said was that most yoga masters (who have spoken on womens bodies) are neither women nor scientifically knowledgeable enough about the subject. When a yoga “master” expresses an opinion about women that is not borne out by current science then whatever way you look at it, it isn’t correct. Which would also suggest that they aren’t very connected to a deeper universal wisdom either.

Call me heretical but just because someone is a yoga master of great reknown, it doesn’t mean they have all the answers or are never wrong.

#25

So here we see two perspectives – one talks about the energetics of the human body; the other appeals to current science (which at least prefers gross anatomy over the idea of an energy body). Just in case it’s useful, I’m going to use KamalaYoga’s post to start a new thread on whether (or how) those two perspectives find any common ground.

http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f16/energy-body-current-science-5068.html

#26

[/QUOTE[QUOTE]]I wasn’t going to jump in here but I cannot let this one pass.

I totally disagree with this. Here’s why.

Firstly you cannot “reverse” menstrual flow. A quick look at the female anatomy is enough to demonstrate that fluids collect in the “well” around the cervix. The obvious biological reason for this is to increase the chances of conception. Why, given that the vagina naturally slopes backwards, do some yoga “experts” caution against inversions during menstruation when lying supine would have exactly the same effect, if not more?

Unless you are planning on staying in an inversion for a considerable length of time I don’t think there is an issue. Energetically there may be an argument worth considering but again I do think that depends on the length of time in the pose.

I have had students who found inversions useful and helpful during this time and others who did not. It is a personal choice but it should not be based on scientifically fallacious advice.

Some women find it embarrassing to be advised to sit out some asanas in a mixed class because they are menstruating.

It is important to remember that most traditional yoga masters are male and old. Not experts in the female condition at all. Sorry if this offends.

Most yoga teachers who advise this caution are merely repeating the same old nonsense. There is no scientific basis for this.

I object very strongly to the suggestion that the female vagina and/or natural bodily fluids are “toxic”. This is patriarchal propaganda that perpetuates the oppression of women by subverting their innate sexual power and replacing it with shame. [QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Further to my post about inversions,which perhaps was not well worded,my main point was supposed to be about respecting our teachers,if we dont perhaps we would do well to find someone we do respect.
from my name you may guess that I am of the male variety and as such have no direct experience of this matter.Hoever the yoga masters I was referring to are in fact women , I did think about this but wrote in a hurry and I thought yoga mistresses sounded a bit odd and clunky,(note to self dont post without thinking well)
As a man I would always defer to women on this issue,I can honestly say that in 20 years I have only once heard this advice being ignored , this was by some of the more full on ashtangi vinyasa types,where I have heard ,although no direct knowledge,of a few womens menstruation stopping and women being unable to conceive presumably to overhardening.Also I know that the Iyengars occasionally apply inversions during menstruation for specific conditions and applied during one to one consultations.
The main "master"yogini would be Dr Geeta Iyengar (ayurvedic doctor)
authoress of “yoga a gem for women” she must have studied yoga for 50 years.
then there would be Mira mehta who trained me to be a yoga teacher author of many books and practitioner of yoga since childhood.
Linda sparrowe authoress of "yoga for a healthy menstrual cycle"
Patricia Walden and Judith Hanson Lasater authoresses of “The Womens Book of Yoga and health” I know that just because you write a book that it doesnt make it right, but these are a few of the many examples of respected yoginis who give this advice,I have over a hundred yoga books from various schools and they are as one on this issue,obviously with a book one would be wise to err on the side of caution in this litagous age , and it doesnt mean that they are all right.
with regard to inversions I personally come from a school of yoga that practices long inversions , especially headstand and shoulderstand,I have noticed on recent retreats with practitioners from all schools , people seem to take the inversions less seriously and a quick shoulderstand and headstand seem to be the norm,not giving much time to explore the posture in my small mind, my main teacher was quite surprised themselves ,apparently its down to health and safety (oh dear)
As far as being embarrassed ,yes i could see this coming up ,but if one chooses to teach in this way , then the student has the option of not coming to that class , most of us get embarrased at some point but yoga asks us to go beyond that,I beleive .Also I know as a teacher that some ladies will lie and carry on with the inversions anyway , I cant stop that ,but just give my advice on what I beleive to be helpful.There is the old chestnut about it being an opportunity to explore more restorative ,softer poses,which ironically would benefit the few males that practice yoga in the west.
If the same old nonesense is being repeated, it must be happening in other areas of yoga which is slightly alarming.But from my short experience of yoga (20 years) I have faith in the practice but will keep a mindfulness looking beyond form.
Obviously recent yoga history has produced more known yogis than yoginis,
but I do believe that Krisnamacharya who I suspect is responsible for us practicing yoga in the west and certainly one of the greats for exploring and understanding that small but precious by product of yoga ,theraputic application,was him self a revolutionary thinker who against strong and virulent opposition from the no doubt brahminical and patriarchal forces taught yoga to women (Indra Devi ),and gasp , foreigners who would have been considered unclean by many in India.He said that the Future lay in women and children,given the numbers of women that practice yoga he was probably right.He said that yoga was for everybody and the practice should fit the individual.
The word toxic is perhaps not a great transalation but comes from Dr Geeta Iyengar the quote is direct from her,I have seen this word in other ayurvedic texts but cant remember where.
These are some of the reasons ,although the one that I do resonate with is to do with the energetic flow of apana not of course yet endorsed in the west as far as I know (ie the scientific endorsement of prana),I would ask you not to do inversions in my class.but its up to the individual what they do at home , and as has been said you might not find out if it was harmful for a long time.I dont claim to be wrong or right, just erring on the side of caution and respecting the masters and mistresses that have passed the knowledge on . I quite liked what Mary D Schatz MD writes on this subject if you can find it. kamala yoga no offence was taken ,there probably is noone to offend

JAI MA.

#27

Aha. That reply is much more informative and shows that you have indeed done a great deal of reading on the matter. Sorry for jumping to conclusions previously but as you say yourself, it wasn’t a well-thought out original reply :smiley:

I do not however change my opinion - and it has to be an opinion since no actual research has been done on this yet. Geeta Iyengar is really a chip off the old block. I can’t comment too much as I will admit I have not read “A gem for women” but most of my objections to advice in this area stem from her esteemed father. Toxic may be a bad translation (?) but I think not. I still object. Coming from a woman its even worse - what kind of self-image does that word spring from?

I do own and have read “Light on Yoga”, “Light on Pranayama” and also a lesser know work entitled ?The Tree of Yoga? from which a lot of my objections arise. I quote from this: (italics are mine)

?..it is always advisable to avoid the practice of inverted poses during the menstrual period. The natural flow at the menstrual period is discharge, and if the discharge does not take place properly, you have headaches and have to go to the doctor for treatment. ?. Now, if you do inverted poses at the time of menstruation, [I]there will be a tendency to absorb instead of discharge.[/I] If the discharge is blocked by doing inverted poses [I]this may give certain coatings inside[/I]. To begin with you may not find there is much effect, but as a result of holding the discharge through the effect of gravity, [I]a coating may be formed inside, which may later lead to various diseases including cysts, cancer and so on[/I]?

As I mentioned before the act of lying supine also somewhat prevents the flow from leaving the body, due to the design of the female vagina. This is scientific fact. So, for example, during a nights sleep of say 8 hours or so, the flow (unless substantial) will be ?held? until the woman stands up. Why then does this not cause the claimed ?absorption? and ?blockage? and lead to various diseases yet inverted asana for a few minutes does? It just does not stack up.

As far as the energetic principle of apana goes there is also to consider that apana governs the excretion of faeces and urine, which do contain toxins. So why is it then that inversions disrupt the apana relating to menstruation and not to urination or defecation? Surely if inversions cause ?blockages? to and ?absorptions? of menstrual flow they might similarly cause blockages and absorptions of urine or faces?

I am impressed that you have so widely read of women yoga teachers. If you are truly interested then may I suggest adding Jeannine Parvati Baker to your list? Now she was truly a yogini!

I was very fortunate in my yoga therapy training to be taught by the wonderful Dr Ruth Gilmore PhD, a yoga therapist who is also a lecturer in physiology and anatomy so the practical and scientific was married with the esoteric and spiritual.

#28

Wow, thank you for that quote. Yep, that looks like an example of someone who has not studied gross anatomy, but talks about it anyway. Please, who wrote “the tree of yoga”? So far, I am delighted it is a lesser known work.

#29

“As far as the energetic principle of apana goes there is also to consider that apana governs the excretion of faeces and urine, which do contain toxins. So why is it then that inversions disrupt the apana relating to menstruation and not to urination or defecation? Surely if inversions cause ?blockages? to and ?absorptions? of menstrual flow they might similarly cause blockages and absorptions of urine or faces?”

Thankyou for your reply.
I am as I say no expert,but my sense tells me that the physical , energetic body asks me to “evacuate the bowels” before I practice asana and not to eat meals before practicing. I particuarly dont like shoulderstand if i have waste matter in my body, it just doesnt feel right for me,and indeed shoulder stand often necessitates a rapid visit to the loo. (or bathroom for our American cousins)
so in a way perhaps it isnt healthy.But I have no idea.In ayurveda as is being discussed on another thread urine is not necessarily all toxic although in my small experiments in amaroli it was advised that the mid part of the flow is the pure stuff.I have used urine for cuts in tropical climates and it was great. Many years ago I met a man on a train in India who extolled amaroli ,and he certainly was an extremely positive and healthy looking individual.anyway I digress.There must have been scientific research on menses (is that the right word?) But I have not heard of any.

yours in yoga

#30

While I certainly appreciate all the information here I think the most important thing to remember is that personal experience is your ultimate guide. I personally do not like inversions as they make me feel very uncomfortable and at the risk of TMI causes my flow to be very heavy thereafter.

It seems to me that the information yoga masters have given in past was given with compassion and the intent to keep practitioners comfortable. If you are OK with doing inversions, then do them. If not, then do not.

As charlie wisely points out, doing inversions on a full tummy is equally uncomfortable.

I don’t get the impression anyone here is trying to subvert any female power, or imply any kind of subservience. I am pleased to see how polite everyone is being even though some folks are clearly rather passionate about this. Often passion translates to argument on forums, how pleasant to see something different here.

#31

[QUOTE=Techne;24867]Wow, thank you for that quote. Yep, that looks like an example of someone who has not studied gross anatomy, but talks about it anyway. Please, who wrote “the tree of yoga”? So far, I am delighted it is a lesser known work.[/QUOTE]

That would be B K S Iyengar…