Prana = Spirit = Kundalini?

Spirituality
#41

The intellect simply cannot grasp the Spirit. To the mind, the Spirit will always be unfathomable.

The mind is a tool. The ego is the self of the mind.

The Spirit is Life! The Divine is the Self of the Spirit.

Mind does not know Spirit.

I hope this helps you understand my point.

Now, do you understand the obvious contradiction you are have created. You are using the intellect to make all these judgements:

Mind does not know spirit
Mind is a tool. The ego is the self of the mind
The spirit is life
The divine is the self of the spirit

So either the intellect does have the power to understand things or it doesn’t. Which is it going to be?

#42

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;40505]Now, do you understand the obvious contradiction you are have created. You are using the intellect to make all these judgements:

[/QUOTE]

This is not true.

I have not used the intellect to make these judgments.

#43

[QUOTE=bonemarrow;40507]This is not true.

I have not used the intellect to make these judgments.[/QUOTE]

Then how do you know any of those statements are true ?

Intellect is the faculty within us that says what is and what is not. It classifies, organizes and orders. This is pretty much what you just did with your statements.

So it is no different to what I did. But I am not using the intellect to classify, organize and order as much as I using it to think more clearly and realise the fallacies in language we make, the assumptions we make. I try to clear away all the clutter in the mind with the aid of the intellect. To get rid of redundant terms, categories and be more precise.

#44

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;40508]Then how do you know any of those statements are true ?
[/QUOTE]

Because I experience it.

I am Spirit.

The mind is my tool. Intellect is my tool.

I have an ego, of course. But mostly it keeps out of the way these days :slight_smile:

Let your mind go Surya… if you let it go Spirit can rise to take its place!

Surrender.

#45

[QUOTE=bonemarrow;40509]Because I experience it.

I am Spirit.

The mind is my tool. Intellect is my tool.

I have an ego, of course. But mostly it keeps out of the way these days :slight_smile:

Let your mind go Surya… if you let it go Spirit can rise to take its place!

Surrender.[/QUOTE]

Be careful there. As soon as you hear yourself saying “I have an ego, but it is mostly out of the way” the alarm bells should begin to ring. You should not allow yourself to fall into spiritual complaceny. Thinking you have attained the goal before you even started the journey is the biggest delusion seekers suffer with.

If you had really experienced the Self, then you would not be on this forum. You would not be arguing with me. You would not feel the need to tell me I am confusing people. I recall the story of Adisankara who proclaimed, “Aham Brahmasmi” - I am Brahman. Then his student went about proclaiming the same and Sankara reprimanded him. He said to him if you are Brahman then can you swallow this hot coal. The student said he could not. Sankara then told him, “Until you have not realised Brahman, do not say that you are Brahman” Similarly, you say “I am spirit” but you don’t really know that. It is at this moment just a concept you have heard. A theoretical understanding.

Not to say you’ve not had experiences. You may have experienced many different states of consciousness. But you clearly have not experienced the Self - Brahman.

You are using your intellect as much as the next guy. You have no choice not to otherwise you would not be able to think. You would not be able to communicate. You would not be able to make any judgements. You would not be able to do anything in the world. So when you say the intellect does not know, you are pretty much setting yourself up for contradiction. The wise sages did not say reject the intellect, they said purify the intellect. The Vedic sages say, “Sharpen your intellect, and know the nature of reality” and Buddha talked about right thinking.

In the end nothing is a spare part that you are suppose to reject. You need your body, mind, intellect to live. The point is to purify them to get a pure body, mind, intellect.

#46

The intellect does have the power to know the ultimate reality and this is what the great philosopher Adisankara showed. There were others in his time that maintained that Brahman cannot be known - a philosophy which is known as mysticism. That is that Brahman will always be mystery. It can never be reasoned. Sankara was able to show that reason can indeed know Brahman. First of all if Brahman is outside of the reach of reason, then it would be impossible to even know the concept of Brahman. But clearly we know this concept. Therefore our reason extends all the way to Brahman.

I can talk about Brahman because Brahman is already a part of my knowable concepts. I can analyse Brahman and make statements about Brahman. This is exactly what the Brahma Sutras does. It is an analysis of Brahman.

The first step, in my opinion to true spirituality is the development of the intellect. That intellect will show you the way to the spirit. Krishna too in the Gita says the path of knowledge is the highest. Knowledge has been maintained to be the highest, most valuable pursuits of man. This is why this culture we are discussing is called Vedic - the knowledge culture.

#47

No, it would not be fair to say that.

Kundalini is a process, and only that.

No.

Kundalini is itself not energy, but rather is mechanical in nature, specifically related to the human anatomy, or rather, higher-animal kingdom anatomy: alternating bilateral vertebrates, possessing ida, pingala and sushumna, and bearing weight through intersecting axes and planes of rotation. Kundalini is suspension within or locomotion of prana along sushumna by mechanical means, so there’s process involved in doing that, but that process for us is yoga.

The above 2 quotes are from Bonemarrow and Siva respectively. And respectfully to the 2 of you, I would have to disagree. Every single book I have read states Kundalini is energy. The process as you call it is YOGA. Siva, you even state that in your last sentence. Now if you are talking about Kundalini Yoga as a process, then yes I would agree. But even Kundalini yoga considers Kundalini energy. The practice opens and clears the Chakras making way for Kundalini to rise through the sushumna, the pathway, to Sahasrara Chakra.

I will state that there are many contradictory definitions of Kundalini. Even in the Hatha Yoga Pradipika, there are several contradictory definitions. In the Yoga Yajnavalkya, Kundalini is described as an obstacle (avidya). It is the Prana itself that rises up through sushumna. Other books state it is kundalini that rises up through sushumna. but if you follow the Yoga Yajnavalkya, it doesn’t make sense because it states that prana and the various forms it takes in the body are linked to the practice of yoga. If we are successful in our practice, Kundalini is burned, clearing the way for prana. Not quite sure if I agree with this idea, but it is interesting nonetheless. Food for thought.

Honestly guys, I just can’t see how you can not view Kundalini as energy. But Siva, in your response, you seem like you would ascribe to the Yoga Yajnavalkya’s way of thinking. Prana is what is released after Kundalini is burned. Correct? or am I misunderstanding you?

If you look at Prana and Kundalini as energy, but Prana more as Gross Body and Kundalini as Subtle Body I think it makes more sense. Gross body consisting of the five elements is how we perceive our physical body. Subtle body includes the gross, but also the Vital Breath, and the mind and intellect. And if you are able to use that immense energy that lies dormant in the Subtle body, the experience is bliss.

Once again, this is but my humble opinion. Share your thoughts with me please as I would appreciate a better understanding of where you both are coming from. And if I am misunderstanding, please give more of an explanation than a simple no. Thanks guys!

#48

Here's what wikipedia has to say on the interesting subject ofBrahmin. A new thread can always be started if someone feels it merits it.I'm not that up on yogic philosophy or jnana yoga, i know Surya Deva is, but i've found some of the vedic & yogic philosophy side all very interesting.It's was like joiniing up some of the dots for me by revealing some of the intersections; like branches in a tree they do appear connected.And some rather well;Like pieces in a jig-saw puzzle which when they fit you get that "eureka" 'a-ha' moment and then you see the whole larger picture more clearly.Start off with a grain of sand, and then see the whole universe within it.