I wonder who was the guru of the first guru ?
Probably some great gurus and saints did not have gurus. I do not know.
But IMHO we, mere mortals, really need a guru.
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[QUOTE=oak333;17544]I wonder who was the guru of the first guru ?
Probably some great gurus and saints did not have gurus. I do not know.
But IMHO we, mere mortals, really need a guru.[/QUOTE]
If we are to transcend the world, to be in it but not of it, we would require a guru and a proven spiritual tradition.
As the original poster of this thread I would kindly and respectfully request people to please stick to the topic of the original thread, which was about wether one needs initiation for kriya or not.
There is a whole thread at the moment which is very active about the need for a guru or not and I am sure your opinions about the guru would enjoy a wider audience under that thread.
I however thank all who has contributed to this thread from my heart.
a guru will light your lamp,
without the lamp lit you can still get lower 7 chakra benefits,
lamp lightning is important 
some kriya schools dont’ light lamps, some do ,
hi all i am new to these forums
what a great place to meet other yogis/yoginis !!!
strong title to be sure … there is no right or wrong really the point i would
offer would be this and i offer this wishing not to offend anyone who thinks otherwise
i was initated into kriya by my GURU in India 1995 as a result of praying constantly to Yogananda that i did not want to recieve via srf etc anyway thats a whole story in itself
suffice to say that i have practised this holy science for a while now and still consider myself a beginner
may i suggest that devotion is the key to all this it is not just a method because dark nights will come and only devotion will keep you going then …
a GURU whom you have a close friendship with that you can call day or night who can explain and monitor your practise is the most wonderful experience available to a soul
my GURU showed me the light of BRAMHA whithin moments of our meeting
and radiated pure joy from every pore it was intoxicating just to sit with him
he has left the body now but continues to inspire me daily
prior to this i was practising meditation alone from books etc for a decade and feel my own practises helped prepare me so i would never discount that stage of developement
those who need to go further will ultimately have no choice but to seek a GURU because devotion isnt taught it is caught …in the company of the one infected by love of GOD
once again hi to all new friends in SOUL/GOD
I would say one definetly needs an initiation into Kriya Yoga.
It doesnt have necessaryly to be the SRF school since the line of Lahiri Mahasaya still exists. Also there is Ananda and Hamsa Yoga doing intitiations. The full practise is not pubished in any book or web site. How can one practise something he dont know?
I was initiated last summer into Kriya Yoga by Yogiraj Sat Gurunath Siddhanath and since that time he guides my practise.
The guideance through a realised master is something I wouldn`t want to miss.
All the best
Lars
[QUOTE=Lars Rimb?ck;25899]I would say one definetly needs an initiation into Kriya Yoga.
It doesnt have necessaryly to be the SRF school since the line of Lahiri Mahasaya still exists. Also there is Ananda and Hamsa Yoga doing intitiations. The full practise is not pubished in any book or web site. How can one practise something he dont know?
I was initiated last summer into Kriya Yoga by Yogiraj Sat Gurunath Siddhanath and since that time he guides my practise.
The guideance through a realised master is something I wouldn`t want to miss.
All the best
Lars[/QUOTE]
There are the LESSONS of Yogananda which show the techniques:
Hello Oak
Yes these lessons are online, they explain some introducing exerises but they don`t explain the complete practise.
So to be a little more concrete: The basic Kriya Yoga breathing is definetly not explained there.
And to repeat it:
The [U][B]full practise[/B][/U] is not pubished in any book or web site.
All the best
Lars
I would tend to go along with the angle Benthino articulated here…hahahahah.
If you think you need it, you need it; If you don’t, you don’t.
Depends on what you mean by initiation, a transference of spirtual energies perhaps.
I tend to see it as a number of people or perhaps just one(,it may be quite memorable or not) blowing directly on the fire of your bhakti.Instead of embers you’ve got a raging fire,perhaps temporarily… But you must do the work you can do yourself(once you’ve left this company or that gurur or whatever).No one’s going to do that for you.The external guru lights or fires up your bhakti.The rest is up to you.
You need bhakti,spiritual desire.Enough of that and it probably matters much less which school of kriya yoga or path you’ve chosen.Not so sure about inititation.Personally i would regard it with susupicion is my gut-feeling, if people insistent on it being a must,which is not to say it is’nt very useful to some people.
I agree with Benthino it is a limting mind-structure but i disagree with him when he suggests (elswhere) that all methods can be discarded(yes maybe eventually) and we all just need to rest in pure awareness.This might work for some folk that are laready ripe but it won’t work for everyone.Chances are indeed that it won’t work for most folk,not unless they’ve already done a certain amount of (spiritual) work or effort beforehand.
The suggesstion is inititation is an essential ingredient in transmission.It’s just a another of those words to me which could mean a number of things ranging from physical contact to invisible contact…
I think it would be over-dogmatic and prescriptive to attach too much significane about any imagined role and importance it might have on anyone’s " spiritual journey".I prefer the more update modern tek on these things but i am still highly respectful and reverential towards what the ancients have handed down.Withoutthem and the last 5000years or so we’d have pretty much nothing.The ancient scriptures hold much authority,probably why they’ve surivived,being supposedly divinely inspired from the source.It’s always good to question limiting mind and belief structures that keep us remaining tethered to our current state of evolution.It’s interesting that one’s own evolution is (most likely) dependent on everyone else’s.That actually makes sense.
Initiation.Depends what you mean by ‘initiation’.
Alot of yogic practices are buried in scripture. Why were some just preserved orally then?And have they survived?.Was it thought that teachings could end up corrupted or altered by folk adopting them?.I’m not that clear on this- why if oral preservation might have been favoured over textual preservation,if that was the case?..Because it was feared texts could be re-written aand any value lost?.On paper at least, it would seem more likely to be lost if there was no living person to pass it onto.Things have been lost,& later re-discovered &revived.I think in the information age where where most of us can scrutinise everything and google,this is not gonna happen.
My gut-feeling is that most of yoga does’nt strictly need a sriptural authority(or one outside of oneself) or an external guru in the flesh to point the way.Maybe this is like a major new shift in the way spirtual ‘transmission’ is now occurring in the modern age.The way IN is in.
Initiation kind of suggests you’re joinning a clan which some folk might find very helpful on their journey.
And if you google or go to amazon,i’m pretty sure you can find manuals or kriya yoga.Alof of it surely is written down.Just that most of us neither have the inclination ,the energy or the bhakti to pursue it fervently as usually required.
Guru is needed till the inner guru is activated
What about initiation (though)?.
That’s the topic of the thread.
I don’t disagree with you btw.I think it helps if some other flesh person is shining a mega-watt lamp just to jump-start,so to speak ,your own little lamp.To show you the way.Fire up your bhakti, or divinely inspire you, and lay out a do-able path or one that can work for alot of people.
Namaste.
[QUOTE=core789;31822]What about initiation (though)?.
[/QUOTE]
when an unenlightened person teach you about enlightenment, he is actually transferring his ideas to you.
When an enlightened person teach you about enlightenment, he is actually transferring enlightenment to you.A transfer of energy takes place between guru and disciple
This is the basic principle of initiation.
[quote=Shivoham;31973]when an unenlightened person teach you about enlightenment, he is actually transferring his ideas to you.
When an enlightened person teach you about enlightenment, he is actually transferring enlightenment to you.A transfer of energy takes place between guru and disciple. This is the basic principle of initiation.[/quote]
Namaste,
Shivoham,
I really appreciate this and your words has added instantly much light for me to the whole issue of initiation.
Blessings,
We got yoga through the scriptures. When this scriptures repeatedly stresses on the importance of a Guru in the path of yoga, what logic is there to simply deny it.
If you cant understand or get something, denying is the easiest thing to do .
This attitude is not fair for spiritual seekers. We must simply be seekers.
[QUOTE=Pandara;7404]Hi,
I had a discussion with a fellow yogi this afternoon about Kriya yoga. My understanding has always been that you need initiation into Kriya yoga. You can do the asanas and pranayama, but they won’t be as effective as when you had an initiation. According to her this is not necessary and that the Kriya yoga she does is so powerful that you don’t need initiation. She at lenght explained to me some of the asanans and pranayama etc.
Can somebody shed some light on this please.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by [U]INITIATION[/U]?
Perhaps some of us are struggling with the very idea of “initiation” seen either as an external intervention in one’s spiritual journey or as a discriminating act.
But perhaps there is something entirely different. A critical part of Kriya Yoga is taught directly by guru to an eligible student. One of the reasons is that Kriya Yoga involves some advanced exercises directly on the sustaining life-force in the body that without proper supervision can actuallly harm.
That is also the reason why Kriya Yoga is considered a slightly faster track for self-realization. Those born with spiritual legacy of past lives, especially on the path of devotion, are better suited as candidates for Kriya Yoga. With proper training these candidates can consideraly shorten time required for yama, niyama, asana and pranayama.
Initiation is required to verify the eligibility accrued from the past lives and to ascertain readiness for a passionate pursuit of Yoga.
Hi CM,
There are many definitions on the web of initiation and I am sure you can search that.
For me personally initiation meant a new beginning, an opportunity to open a door and to experience a spiritual unfoldment, it was a shift in awareness and over time an assimilation of all that heppened to me during my kriya practices.
Hi Pandara,
Is there a particular school of kriya yoga or kriya that you have practiced, in the past, or currently practice( or perhaps indeed you’re preparing for to practice)?
I know it might indeed be the case that for some (& some schools) during “initiation”, kind of like an oath might be taken that perhaps suggests students don’t talk about or share their practices with others.I do agree that initation could function like a spiritual injection(whether it’s cloaked in ritual or not) with lasting substance.
I guess it doees’nt really matter, as whatever serves you is all that really mattters.
But i am just curious.If you’ve taken such an oath or subscribe to such things then fair enough.I’m a believer in having teachings open-sourced , i.e available to all, rather than just perhaps shared amongst a select lucky few.In principle i could never subscribe to that unless there was soome good reason(s)…I cannot really see how it might help yoga for the best.Those that find some teaching useful will naturally be drawn to them…Those that thave no “spiritual” inclination will not. But we will have spiritual possibilites within us all,which will bear fruit as long as we choose to tap into them.
If you don’t feel like sharing then i respect that. I’m just curious.
[quote=core789;32300]Hi Pandara,
Is there a particular school of kriya yoga or kriya that you have practiced, in the past, or currently practice( or perhaps indeed you’re preparing for to practice)?[/quote]
Hi Core,
It was no particular school, but a specific lineage. Schools doesn’t really mean much to me and I tend to ignore it, but lineage is very important as I understood it from my teacher. I was initiated by Sri Shibendu Lahiri and you can read more about him here: http://www.kriyayogalahiri.com/htmluk/kriyayoga-lore.htm
I have practiced everything he gave us religiously in the past and still practice them. I want to say this as this is important to me, you need the physical presence of a teacher to guide you through this. I was fortunate that my teacher Sri Durga was already initiated and knew the kriyas very well and she could guide me through the changes I experienced. I know there is much criticism against this on the forum, but I feel strongly about it and will stand by this point.
Currently I am taking two of my own yogis through the kriyas. And no I can’t give them the initiation, I can only give them the practices. We all plan to visit Sri Shibendu at a point in future in India so that they can receive their initiation, or if he visits South Africa again.
[quote=core789;32300]I know it might indeed be the case that for some (& some schools) during “initiation”, kind of like an oath might be taken that perhaps suggests students don’t talk about or share their practices with others.I do agree that initation could function like a spiritual injection(whether it’s cloaked in ritual or not) with lasting substance.
I guess it doees’nt really matter, as whatever serves you is all that really mattters.[/quote]
No, there was no swearing to secrecy or oaths or any prohibitions. Shibendu specifically asked us to share freely (as he did) to those who ask for it and I have always been prepared to share freely. We are free to talk about the kriyas and asanas he gave us, but the initiation itself, that is sacred and he asked us not to reveal too much about that. Fact is I can’t really reveal too much about it as it was all in Hindi/Sanskrit and I understood very little of it, more important was the spiritual impetus the initiation provided.
[quote=core789;32300]But i am just curious.If you’ve taken such an oath or subscribe to such things then fair enough.I’m a believer in having teachings open-sourced , i.e available to all, rather than just perhaps shared amongst a select lucky few.In principle i could never subscribe to that unless there was soome good reason(s)…I cannot really see how it might help yoga for the best.Those that find some teaching useful will naturally be drawn to them…Those that thave no “spiritual” inclination will not. But we will have spiritual possibilites within us all,which will bear fruit as long as we choose to tap into them.
If you don’t feel like sharing then i respect that. I’m just curious.[/quote]
Core,
I have no problem sharing with those who asked and I will in a separate post in this thread post the kriyas. It is extensive and I will first need to type up in MS Word and then publsih here, so please give me a day or two.