The Indus Valley Civilization

Archaeological sites in India, such as Malhar, Dadupur, Raja Nala Ka Tila and Lahuradewa in present day Uttar Pradesh show iron implements in the period 1800 BC – 1200 BC.[7] Archaeological excavations in Hyderabad show an iron age burial site [16] Some scholars believe that by the early 13th century BC, iron smelting was practiced on a bigger scale in India, suggesting that the date of the technology's inception may be earlier.[7]

It is clear that the technology to manufacture those surgical instruments was there.

. This is not to denigrate Sushruta's work as it really is quite old, but still primitive by today's standards.

There is nothing comparable to Sushrutas work in the West until the 20th century. So there is nothing primitive about it. Modern surgery uses Sushrutas techniques still today.

Ayurveda can treat diseases better than modern medicine. If it is primitive why is it better?

While it's true that the Indian "sciences" may have been more advanced than the west in their time, they never produced anything like what we have today. So if they had the seeds of this great science, what prevented it from developing further?

Again as I asked earlier where is your Yoga, Vedanta, Sanskrit and Ayurveda?
The truth is you are still behind Hindu science. We have been well ahead of you from the start in the sciences.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32835]Similarly, after decoherence one can use classical physics and model the world as being made up of atoms with electrons, protons and neutrons(which in turn consist of quarks) but this does not mean the theory is correct that the world is made out of atoms with electrons, protons and neutrons. In fact according to quantum mechanics it is completely wrong it is wavefunctions and there is no separability.

The best theory is the theory that can explain all previous observations and new observations. Newtonian mechanics failed to explain new observations so general relativity was developed to explain it. Then general relativity failed to explain the new observations made at the subatomic level, so quantum mechanics was developed to explain it. [/QUOTE]

I’m afraid you are confusing quite a lot of things talking about physical image of the world. E.g. claiming that according to quantum mechanics world is not composed from electrons, protons etc. – if you will peek into quantum mechanics books you will find such terms as wave function OF ELECTRON, or wave function OF PROTON. World is not just a soup of wave functions. It is at one level a collection of particles which can be described by wave functions.

Second is the image you present in which e.g. Newtonian physics and General Theory of Relativity are contradictory and somehow fighting with each other. Go through maths and have a look how Newtonian mechanics is a SPECIAL CASE of General Theory of Relativity. It absolutely doesn’t mean that it was wrong or incorrect. If you think like that it probably means that you read more into science that there is. Lacking to see this correspondence between theories is in my opinion lack of real knowledge or interpreting science in “existential” way. I’m afraid you will not find this type of knowledge in philosophy books. You have to do maths and experience it. Without this experience you may have just vague image about theories you talk about.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32835]Simple, I direct my consciousness to any area of the body I want. So what is travelling there? It is prana. You will be able to see the prana and chakras as well the more adept you become at Yoga. The flow of the blood, the electricity passing through the nerves are all effects of pranic flows. The fact of the matter is you this takes place only after you send the intention. This intentional impulse is the prana. The intention arises in your mind which is either conscious, subconscious or unconscious and they regulate your entire body.

However, I can categorically say the prana is not in space and time so it cannot be measured. [/QUOTE]

How do you know it is prana then? I still fail to understand your confidence that your method is scientific while making such great jumps – from a physical sensation to a concept of entity from another plane.

Also, how can you reconcile categorical statement that prana is not in space and time while talking about precise prana FLOW (which is by definition a phenomena in space and time) and ability of seeing its distribution in body. How can you see prana flowing if it doesn’t exist in space-time?

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32835]Likewise, just as the dream world responds to mind, so does the physical world. However, again the magnitude is different. [/QUOTE]

I don’t agree at all. It’s not just about magnitude of this response. It’s mainly about properties of those responses. There is no smooth transition there. In dream world you can’t do consistent physical measurements. Content of the dream world fails consistency check – one of the ways to recognize if you are awake or dreaming/hallucinating.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32835]Yes, definitely it is subconscious projection. It is the mental plane and that reality has both subjective and objective properties. In fact so does the physical plane, nobody has exactly the same experiences, and again the difference is in magnitude only. [/QUOTE]

If I read a book and give it to someone else, this person will read the same letters and words., see the same drawings. Even without interpretation a raw description of the lines in drawings will be consistent. It doesn’t happen in dream world (not mentioning that people who we meet in dream world somehow do not remember such encounter).

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32835] http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com…nergy-resource

It is not really a theoretical issue right now but a technological one. When will we develop the technology to tap the energy from the quantum vacuum which is potentially infinite. This is the birth of pranic science for modern times. [/QUOTE]

Thanks for a link. Interesting idea. I checked the progress and it seems it doesn’t work at all (such as all previous attempts to find source of infinite energy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion) but I wish inventors best of luck. If they succeed, it will be end of the world as we know it! With infinite energy we could even use the whole Earth as a spaceship and explore universe. That would be cool.

I’m afraid you are confusing quite a lot of things talking about physical image of the world. E.g. claiming that according to quantum mechanics world is not composed from electrons, protons etc. – if you will peek into quantum mechanics books you will find such terms as wave function OF ELECTRON, or wave function OF PROTON. World is not just a soup of wave functions. It is at one level a collection of particles which can be described by wave functions.

Second is the image you present in which e.g. Newtonian physics and General Theory of Relativity are contradictory and somehow fighting with each other.

I am afraid you have a romantic and emotional view of science as everybody getting on and there being a universal concensus and a uniform development. Unfortunately, it is unrealistic. Einstein hated quantum mechanics and he put a lot of energy into showing it was illogical. I have read the works by renowned academics of philosophy of science such as Karl Popper and Thomas Kuhn and even they agree there are several schisms in science today. It not a happy little world where everybody agrees with each other.

The quantum mechnical description of the world and classical physical description of the world are not commensurable no matter how much you assert they are. Einstein showed this himself with the EPR problem that quantum mechanics violates the laws of classical physics. There is no duality at the quantum level everything is modelled as a wavefunction and is superpositioned. This has to first collapse before we have particles. It has now been experimentally proven that this collapse only takes place on observation(I provided a reference earlier)

The reason a quantum mechanics book talks about the wavefunction of an electron or a proton is because the electron and proton is at the quantum level a wavefunction. You do not seemt to understand this EITHER OR business. Something is EITHER a wave OR a particle. It is not both at the same time. This is why when we measure for a particle we find a particle and when we measure for a wave we find a wave. These are mutually opposing properties. It’s just like saying water is either solid or liquid but not solid and liquid at the same time. These are mutually opposes states of matter. To say they are both solid and liquid is saying that something can have contradictory properties and that is completely illogical.

How do you know it is prana then? I still fail to understand your confidence that your method is scientific while making such great jumps – from a physical sensation to a concept of entity from another plane.

Also, how can you reconcile categorical statement that prana is not in space and time while talking about precise prana FLOW (which is by definition a phenomena in space and time) and ability of seeing its distribution in body. How can you see prana flowing if it doesn’t exist in space-time?

I know it is prana because intentional impulses originating from mind cannot be measured but without that intentional impulse nothing would function. The body could not be held together without the intelligent functioning of the prana. Hence why when the prana withdraws from the body it decomposes immediately.

Can we measure the quantum virtual particles? No, because they are not physical. We can only measure them when they become manifest and then we only measure the effects of them. We cannot measure non-physical things. Now, experiencing something does not mean it is physical. I can experience thoughts as well does that mean thoughts are taking place in space-time? If that is that case measure my thoughts :wink: It is clear logically that mind is in another plane of reality. It is non-local. If it was local you would be able to measure minds.

The pranic flows are not taking place within space time because they nothing more than a dynamic underlying physical reality which is mutually in relation with everything else at once at the same time in the universe. Again just as quantum physics shows. Quantum and prana are the same things.

You are really trying very hard to interpret the quantum world with physical descriptions like space-time but do not realise the quantum physics completely opposes space-time. It denies it exists and shows nothing exists separely but is composed of a web of mutual set of relationships.

Here is a quote from a renowned quantum physicist:

An elementary particle is not an independently existing analyzable entity. It is, in essence, a set of relationships that reach outward to other things.(H.P.Stapp)

Similarly prana does not work in isolation but it works in relation with the entire dynamics of the univese and is entangled with everything at once in the universe, such that an event happening in another galaxy will cause the prana to resolve in our own system.

I don’t agree at all. It’s not just about magnitude of this response. It’s mainly about properties of those responses. There is no smooth transition there. In dream world you can’t do consistent physical measurements. Content of the dream world fails consistency check – one of the ways to recognize if you are awake or dreaming/hallucinating.

You can’t do consistent physical measurements with quantum objects either. Come on I know you about the uncertainty principle. In fact the dream world then is a much more accurate description of reality because it matches the characteristics of the quantum world which is chaotic.

In any case you are commiting a fallacy here of naive realism. So the senses show us the world is consistent, physical and solid. The senses also show us the sun is going around the earth, the earth is flat and unmoving, the sky is blue, objects bend in water and motion is continious. We know all of this is wrong. So the sensory representation is unreliable. If we look at the scientific representation than we know it is not consistent, solid and physical at all. So clearly the sensory view of reality is not real.

In dream we see reality for what it really is: not consistent, physical and solid. More like a liquid: liquid reality.

If I read a book and give it to someone else, this person will read the same letters and words., see the same drawings. Even without interpretation a raw description of the lines in drawings will be consistent. It doesn’t happen in dream world (not mentioning that people who we meet in dream world somehow do not remember such encounter).

True, but again you are appealing to arguments of naive realism. Yes the senses show us a book with consistent letters, words and drawings, but that is not what it really is.
We know this categorically from modern science. The sensory view of reality is fundamentally at odds with the scientific view of reality. It still seems very clear to my senses the sun is going around the earth and the earth is not moving. Do you accept this? If not, then why do you accept it is physical?

Thanks for a link. Interesting idea. I checked the progress and it seems it doesn’t work at all (such as all previous attempts to find source of infinite energy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion) but I wish inventors best of luck. If they succeed, it will be end of the world as we know it! With infinite energy we could even use the whole Earth as a spaceship and explore universe. That would be cool.

There is no doubt at all the vacuum is teeming with energy. All that need to do is find ways of extracting it. So theoretically it is very much possible, it is just a matter of developing a technology that can do that. We already can work with quantum forces as we have demonstrated with quantum teleportation, quantum levitation, quantum computers and quantum cryptology. So I have no doubt we will be able to create quantum receivers for catching vacuum energy. If the yogis can utilize quantum forces then why can’t scientists?

Some of the methods used in Hindu science to attract quantum energy is using certain crystals and gem stones, certain geometries(like pyramids) and certain metals like mecury, gold and copper which are good pranic receivers.

I have some questions for you now:

Why does a tesla coil generate more higher frequency and higher voltage electricity than a normal coil?

How do you explain the phenomena of sonoluminesence where sound energy turns into light enegy when it vibrates a bubble?

I hope you forgive me more humorous note of this post but my mind needs to switch off from time to time :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32871]I am afraid you have a romantic and emotional view of science as everybody getting on and there being a universal concensus and a uniform development. [/QUOTE]

You may be right! I remember that during some lectures calculating second quantization I had a wish that things were happier, simpler and less boring. It could happen then! I never believed you can study such things and remain normal :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32871]The quantum mechnical description of the world and classical physical description of the world are not commensurable no matter how much you assert they are. [/QUOTE]

I’m sure that with properly structured practice and concentration I could achieve this goal. After all I have a direct control over reality, just of less magnitude. So if I will concentrate on this for sufficiently long time I’m sure I will make those theories commensurable.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32871]This is why when we measure for a particle we find a particle and when we measure for a wave we find a wave. [/QUOTE]

Serious note: I highly recommend page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

Quickly scroll down to section “When observed emission by emission” and look at image there. This image may be puzzling at beginning but after one minute of staring and figuring out what it shows it is truly mind-blowing.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32871]You are really trying very hard to interpret the quantum world with physical descriptions like space-time but do not realise the quantum physics completely opposes space-time. [/QUOTE]

Oh, I didn’t know that… From now on, when I will write wave function I will remove time and space variables! But, wait, what is this? Schrodinger equation is composed of derivatives of time and space!!! No problem, according to more deep science it shouldn’t, so I will just remove those components. Ok, at the end I have a correct Schrodinger equation:

V(r,t)*psi(r,t)=0

Now just remove space and time and I have:

V*psi=0

where V and psi is just constant everywhere and at all times. Wow, how simple is that! So either V or psi is 0! Wow, and you would wonder that so many physicists were confused with all this space and time in quantum mechanics!!! What a dreadful mistake!

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;32871] I have some questions for you now:

Why does a tesla coil generate more higher frequency and higher voltage electricity than a normal coil?

How do you explain the phenomena of sonoluminesence where sound energy turns into light enegy when it vibrates a bubble? [/QUOTE]

There is time in life when there is enough highly educated and fruitful discussions and time for the action, especially inspired by such great ideas! Tomorrow I will construct a device according to following plan:

I will build a bubble vibrator and put it next to a high efficiency solar battery. Then, I will plug the solar battery output as a power source of the bubble vibrator. I will turn it on and… Just a friendly warning: if you will suddenly see a great brightness and feel ground shaking, quickly withdraw all prana from your limbs because THE END IS COMING!!! :smiley:

Haha, hilarious :wink:

I have read plenty on the double slit experiment from actual quantum physicists. Trust me I understand it very well.

The mathematical models used in quantum mechanics to model the quantum world are just fallacies. There can be no physical description of the quantum world. Schrodinger was not aware of quantum entanglement this is why he used space and time variables, we now know space and time do not exist in the quantum world, courtesy Bell.

The tesla coil and the phenomenon of sonoluminesence shows that energy can be extracted from nature depending on certain arrangements. In other words we can amplify energy, modify it and transform it. It can be through the use of certain geomety, certain metals, certain crystals, certain number of coils etc. The energy required to turn sound into light is enormous but if we create conditions where the sound energy can be concentrared in a higher frequency we can turn it into light. Similarly, a lazer works on the basis of crystals which have highly ordererd atomic structures which concentrate and amplify the light energy. So extracting energy from the quantum vacuum is not all that difficult. Like I said the pranic sciences are just being born now in modern times.