Truth about yoga (a article for discussion)

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#455

[QUOTE=Pietro Impagliazzo;60240]What you so oversimplificate as violence happens to be fight the war of Dharma and not let the world be ruled by ruthless people.

What you also ignore is the metaphorical level to fight the fight within, vanquish adharma within, and win the war in our own personal kshetra, be it internal (our mind) and external (our life).

[B]Would you stop spreading blatant uneducated misinformation?[/B]

You already confirmed to everyone that you either have really impaired cognitive abilities or is just doing this for the fun of trolling.[/QUOTE]

I never said anything new…You can read Geeta, if you are really interested.

#456

[QUOTE=yaram;60241]I never said anything new…You can read Geeta, if you are really interested.[/QUOTE]

It doesn’t matter if it’s new or old. It’s still an uneducated opinion presenting a shallow understanding of a text that condeses and synthesizes Hindu metaphysics so brilliantly, no wonder great minds admire it!

I’ve read the Gita, for many years, studied with many people. I’ll keep on doing so.

#457

[QUOTE=Pietro Impagliazzo;60243]It doesn’t matter if it’s new or old. It’s still an uneducated opinion presenting a shallow understanding of a text that condeses and synthesizes Hindu metaphysics so brilliantly, no wonder great minds admire it!

I’ve read the Gita, for many years, studied with many people. I’ll keep on doing so.[/QUOTE]

Quick question: Are you born into a Hindu family? Are you living in India?

I am asking because knowledge alone will not give good perspective and somehow I think one should live in a complex society like India to relate, appreciate and understand Gita.

#458

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;60236]You have no right to speak what an authentic guru would or would not do, because you simply have no idea. You want us to discard the words of the ancient rishis who have handed down us the tradition of yoga and instead start understanding that you are enlightened. [B]Who on this board do you think is stupid enough to listen to you?[/B][/QUOTE]

I do listen and agree with what Amir has said…!!

#459

Sarva,

“You have no right to speak what an authentic guru would or would not do, because you simply have no idea. You want us to discard the words of the ancient rishis who have handed down us the tradition of yoga”

I want you to know this, that even the ancient rishis are not in absolute agreement with each other. And the whole history of Indian philosophy is there as evidence for it. There is a reason why a million and one different sects, some violently opposed to one another, have come into being - in all of the traditions in India without exception, the yogic traditions included. Unless you understand why this is the case, you will be unable to see deeper into the essential matter. At present, you problem is that because of your attachment, you are thinking of “Hinduism” as something static and fixed. All those who are clinging to a belief system are doing the same.

“Who on this board do you think is stupid enough to listen to you?”

If one is receptive enough, it will be very simple to understand what I am saying, but even that is just superficial. It will be impossible to truly understand what I am pointing towards unless you come to a direct experience. Until then, you should doubt what I am saying. But it is not only myself which you should doubt, but your own beliefs, assumptions, and attachments which one has accepted without question.

“and instead start understanding that you are enlightened”

Whether I am so called “enlightened”, is not relevant at all. Accept it or not accept it, will not be of any help - because all that you have is a useless belief. I do not make any discrimination between the so called “enlightened” and the “unenlightened”, the wise and the ignorant. If desiring to know of the Way, you should know that all forms of dualistic thinking are illusory - they are just projections of thought. Even “enlightenment” is another limiting concept that is to be emptied out.

#460

Yaram, please tell us what your age is. You do not seem to have even a basic understanding of Hinduism. If you want to learn about your own religion, we can give you some suggestions for reading. One example is the Bhagavad Gita with commentary of Swami Chinmayananda. This may be of interest for you. It is freely available for download at: http://www.chinmayauk.org/Resources/Downloads.htm

#461

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;60249]Yaram, please tell us what your age is. You do not seem to have even a basic understanding of Hinduism. If you want to learn about your own religion, we can give you some suggestions for reading.

One example is the Bhagavad Gita with commentary of Swami Chinmayananda. This may be of interest for you. It is freely available for download at: http://www.chinmayauk.org/Resources/Downloads.htm[/QUOTE]

I do daily listening of Gita…I am 40 years old…born in India and in a Hindu family…and practicing Hindu (not like some converted stuff).

I have the original Sanskrit version of Geeta as well as its translations in an Indian regional language.

If you have real conflicts with what I am saying here in the forum, you can ignore me and mind your own stuff. Nobody compels you to watch this forum thread…!!

#462

  1. It seems, there are members with multiple user-id’s posting on this forum…They may be playing double games as well.:stuck_out_tongue: (based on subscribed mails for this forum postings)

  2. If you really quote something like “our sages”, “our traditions” etc…please let us know what is that you practice as a religion and where you do live. That makes the “our” claim a bit clearer…!!

#463

Philipe,

“When I talk about the Individual, it is not the body, neither the mind. I am not talking about the self as ahamkara which is a part of the ever changing Prakriti, I am talking about jivatman which is transcendent to talk technically though it is projected in Prakriti (what Sri Aurobindo called the psychic being), there is a metaphysical bound with the jiva. The error of perception and ignorance are parts of the functioning of the body-mind complex. What we call usually self is a superficial construction of the being always changing. But even Prakriti is a manifestation of the Source.”

All of these words that you are using, “jiva”, “Prakriti”, do you truly understand what they are referring to, or are you just repeating what others have told you ?

If everything in existence is interconnected in such a way, that it is impossible for anything to function separately - then these words such as “Prakriti” and “jiva” are nothing more than models to try and help certain things become more accessible to the intellect. This does not mean that these models are the reality itself, the are an attempt to represent the reality. As far as the expansion of consciousness is concerned, there is nothing which can be called truly transcendental. If Truth is the very stuff that you are made of, then from where have you gotten this idea of transcendence ? There is nothing to transcend. You can expand in your awareness beyond your present limitations, become more conscious of dimensions which are already within you - but you cannot transcend that which one cannot escape.

If you truly want to come to know of what existence is - then everything needs to be accepted, nothing, absolutely nothing can be repressed. If you cling to the “Oneness” of your true nature at the expense of the thousand and one shapes and forms, then you are clinging to one extreme. If you are clinging to the thousand and one shapes and forms at the expense of “Oneness”, then you are clinging to another extreme. The source of existence and its millions of expressions are not separate. And what is needed is for integration is to come to such an awareness - that your consciousness is as multidimensional as the universe itself, penetrating from the deepest roots to all of the countless leaves and branches of the tree. If you think that liberation is merely becoming absorbed in Oneness with a vegetable like intelligence, then one is mistaken. This is just an escape from reality - because one knows very well that if one returns to the ordinary world, one is going to suffer. So you protect yourself in a shell of Oneness. This can become a natural tendency if you are attached to those traditions who have been speaking constantly about renunciation of the world. The strange thing is that if a person is truly free, then wherever he goes and whatever he does, one is going to be liberated. If you are involved in the world, you are going to be liberated. If you are not involved in the world, then too you are liberated. If your balance can be disturbed by something as simple as living in the world - then your peace and liberation is very fragile. At any moment, it can come crashing down. This is not the true liberation.

#464

You should contact the administrator of this forum if you have any doubts about multiply IDs, or wait that is going to expose yourself.

#465

[QUOTE=yaram;60215]To some extent, that is what even Hitler wanted to happen (by many accounts, he thought he is aryan). We all know what were the results.[/QUOTE]

Hitler was a Christian who, thanks to the pseudoscience of Christian historians making up the absurd “Aryan Invasion Theory” (which is totally based on a literal interpretation of the Bible, by the way…), thought that White [U]Christians[/U] were “Aryans.” Hitler had as much to do with Hinduism as

The myth that Hitler or the Nazis were not Christians, or hostile to Christianity in general, is based on two things:

  1. That a [U]few[/U] Nazi party members and early intellectuals were interested in reviving ancient Germanic polytheist beliefs.

  2. Alleged quotes from Hitler claiming that he, and the Nazi party, were antagonistic towards Christianity.

In regards to the first point, it is true that some Nazis were more interested in pre-Christian German religion. But this was largely kept secret from the public, and was not advocated through legislation.

[I]“The characteristic thing about these people [Germanic Pagans] is that they rave about old Germanic heroism, about dim prehistory, stone axes spear and shield,but in reality are the greatest cowards that can be imagined. For the samepeople who brandish scholarly imitations of old German tin swords, and wear a dressed bearskin with bull’s horns over their bearded heads, preach forthe present nothing but struggle with spiritual weapons, and run away asfast as they can from every Communist blackjack. Posterity will have little occasion to glorify their own heroic existence in a new epic.”[/I] (Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Part 1, Chapter 12)

Furthermore, Hitler often spoke derisively of such people, and promoted a very PRO-CHRISTIAN agenda. And furthermore, all of the alleged anti-Christian quotes from Hitler have come from faked versions of Bormann’s “Hitler’s Table Talk,” or from Hermann Rauschning. His book, titled either “Conversations With Hitler” or “The Voice of Destruction,” has been debunked for DECADES, and no serious historian uses it as a source. The book was written (during the Nazi era) on the orders of American and French intelligence services as a deliberate propaganda tool to make Hitler seem anti-Christian, and therefore lose him the support of German and American Christians. Here’s an interesting article on some of the [B]debunked fake quotes in regards to Hitler and Christianity[/B]: www(dot)ffrf(dot)org/legacy/fttoday/2002/nov02/carrier(dot)php

In fact, Hitler promoted Christianity, and had favorable relations with the Vatican. You can find many examples, all throughout “Mein Kampf” of Hitler identifying himself as a Christian, or saying pro-Christian things. They are collected here: nobeliefs(dot)com/hitler(dot)htm

Here’s an example of Hitler’s pro-Christian weltanschauung:

[I]“My feelings [B]as a Christian[/B] points me to my [B]Lord and Savior[/B] as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love[B] as a Christian [/B]and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how [B]the Lord[/B] at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed [B]His blood upon the Cross[/B]. [B]As a Christian[/B] I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For [B]as a Christian[/B] I have also a duty to my own people.”[/I]-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

#466

Yaram, you’d be the first person that studied all the Vedas, reads the Gita daily, is Indian (so you say) and along with this also shallowly states that the Vedas are trash and that the Gita incites violence (a pretty limited conclusion that ignores basically the whole Gita).

If someone is playing games here, basing ourselves on consistency of opinion, it definitely seems like it’s you. Unless you’re a self-loathing Indian. :slight_smile:

#467

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;60247]bla bla bla[/QUOTE]

You are giving importance to yoga which in itself doesn’t make sense if you didn’t have any [U]belief[/U] that it could be useful to become enlightened or overcome suffering. You only know about these things, because of Hinduism. You have already accepted certain values of Hinduism, you are following paths laid down in Sanatana Dharma. The difference is that you don’t want to admit this and claim to have seen the truth yourself/ discovered meditation on your own and constantly tell others that they have not and chastise them for following tradition.

#468

[QUOTE=BryonMorrigan;60255]Hitler was a Christian who, thanks to the pseudoscience of Christian historians making up the absurd “Aryan Invasion Theory” (which is totally based on a literal interpretation of the Bible, by the way…), thought that White [U]Christians[/U] were “Aryans.” Hitler had as much to do with Hinduism as

[/QUOTE]

I really do not whether Hitler was a christian and aryan… For that matter, I do not know the difference between them. My knowledge about Hitler has an “aryan supremacy” agenda is based on what I studied in school as history lessons…!!

Why I referred Hitler in the context is that what Surya wanted to achieve “with his mission” will be as good or as bad as what Hitler wanted to achieve.

The “vedic civilization” stuff has political and social colors in India. Even the hard-core brahmins have stopped following vedic traditions.

#469

The current Indian society has developed negative attitude towards “vedic traditions” mostly because of the caste system propagated by Brahmins.

Now, most of India is ruled by non-Brahmins and the so called vedic brahmins are now asking for “assistance” (reservations), because they feel they became economically backward.

The caste system is reversed in some parts of India due to a combination of socio-political factors and foolishness of Brahmins.

So, to summarize, one who builds “the walls”, gets enclosed.

#470

Sarva,

“You are giving importance to yoga which in itself doesn’t make sense if you didn’t have any belief that it could be useful to become enlightened”

I speak about it, not because I believe, but because I know. And the reason for my knowing is through my own experience with the yogic sciences.

“You only know about these things, because of Hinduism.”

Certainly, I perhaps would not have even been aware of the possibility of something like meditation unless it was discovered and spoken about countless times before me. But your hearing about something only makes you informed - it does not mean that you know. In fact, because so many people have been speaking about things which has not entered into most people’s experiences, and which come from their own interpretation - it has caused more confusion than it has cleared up. Perhaps what you have heard from others about regarding meditation, and the transformation that is possible out of meditation, was just their own hallucination - how do you know ? You only have a hypothesis. A hypothesis needs to be investigated. You need to inquire into it and verify whether it is true or not.

“You have already accepted certain values of Hinduism, you are following paths laid down by the Hindus”

When will you understand that the so called “path” is an inner process ?

#471

Ok…

I think I have met here some real nice people who provided time-pass and sometimes amusement bordering on comedy.

However, most of them, turned out to be non-Indians for whom Hinduism and related stuff can be [B]fashion[/B]…but for me, it is everyday living.

Thanks for everything…!!
All the best…Bye…Bye !!

#472

We need dreamers and visionaries in society or we would never make progress. If Rosa parks, Martin Luther king and others did not dream to be in a country where black people can travel on a bus and walk about with diginity and respect, there would not have been the civil rights movement of the African americans. If Gandhi, Bhagat Singh, Rajuguru, Chandrashekar Azad, Mangel Pandey, Rani Lakshmibhai and countless others did not dream of freedom and independence for their people, we would never have gained independence.

It is easy for people like yourself to not dream and just get on with the status quo, but it is not people like you that bring revolutions in society. It is those people who dream of a better world and then dedicate their life to its fulfillment who the ones that change society my friend. You dream too, but you only dream for yourself. You forget about the society within which you are in and forget that you have a duty to the betterment of everybody in society to make sure society is dharmic a place of virtue, compassion, wisdom. A place where you and I would like to be incarnated in. All sages recognised this responsibility and dedicated their life towards it.

You see you might make light of the suffering your own ancestors went through because you did not have to go through what they did. The desperate hunger and starvation over 100 years, the struggle for diginity and honour, the stagnation and the oppression, the looting and raping. They would never have said that what the British are doing for them is good - but you do, because you did not go through it. However, people like yourself then bring back these conditions into society. Your lack of struggle to make society good, your opposition to those who try to make it good and bring dharma, allows adharma to flourish. You spell the doom of your own country. If yesteryday it was the British, tommorrow it may will be the Chinese. You may well become part of the cause of seeing your family and friends getting butchered and raped before your eyes, simply because you allowed it to happen by not being a responsible member of your society and making light of such evils.

It is not true that the Vedic risis advocated against activism. In fact, the opposite is true, they said, “Make the whole world Aryan(noble)” The Risis said that the entire world was one family vasudeva kutumbukum and we should all live with a common thought and common philosophy and way of life, because difference breeds conflict . We should sing together, pray together and act together with a common resolve. This is the Vedic vision, and as a member of this religion by soul, this is exactly what my mission is in life. I want nothing for myself - I want everything for the world.

It will be people like me who will bring change in the world. Not people like you who are only interested in their own entertainment. I have at least started to dream.

#473

It is significant to have a dream, but to have a dream without awareness of the realities which are functioning in life is dangerous. If one is capable of dreaming in such a way where one’s imagination can soar, and yet your feet remain grounded in the Earth - then there is even a possibility that a dream can become a reality.

#474

You are still claiming you know from your own experience while it is clear that you have read many books and are only posting that information here with your own twist. But there is already a thread about your meglomaniac self, so if you want to make claims that you know, because you have directly experienced truth, go post in that thread.

Certainly, I perhaps would not have even been aware of the possibility of something like meditation unless it was discovered and spoken about countless times before me.
Good to see you finally admit that

But your hearing about something only makes you informed - it does not mean that you know. In fact, because so many people have been speaking about things which has not entered into most people’s experiences, and which come from their own interpretation - it has caused more confusion than it has cleared up. Perhaps what you have heard from others about regarding meditation, and the transformation that is possible out of meditation, was just their own hallucination - how do you know ? You only have a hypothesis. A hypothesis needs to be investigated. You need to inquire into it and verify whether it is true or not.

This is all part of the path laid down in the yoga traditions and, I am sorry to tell you, is all part of the vedic knowledge. It’s not based on modern science, go find an academic study where they have laid down the path towards liberation and scientifically verified this. If you had not so strongly severed your connection with anything that had to do with tradition, you might not be so deluded today to think that you are the Buddha.

“You have already accepted certain values of Hinduism, you are following paths laid down by the Hindus”

When will you understand that the so called “path” is an inner process ?
I already understood that, but thanks anyway.