Truth about yoga (a article for discussion)

[QUOTE=Nellie31;59049]I am not hindu or christian. In fact I don’t belong to any kind of religion but who are they to say that the hindu god is a false god? What if in fact their christian God is a false god? In my opinion and im sorry if this offends anyone this article is just another example of religious fanatics. To me that woman is nothing but a bible thumper that thinks she’s better then other people because she’s chrisitian. I have no problem with religion and people’s religious beliefs but I hate how judgmental certain religious people are. This article brought up all kinds of emotions in me but I tired to keep it as polite as possible lol.[/QUOTE]

I am not surprised anymore, knowing that this behavior is rooted in the abrahamic religions, but mostly Christianity and Islam. Even early in the history of Christians, different sects within Christianity wiped each other out for not following the one true religion. I have been recommended to read a book by Jonathan Kirsh called “God against the Gods.” I have put it on my amazon wishlist.

It is not a heated debate, it is a stupid debate. The people who are saying that Yoga has not originated from Hinduism are people who are ignorant of both Yoga and Hinduism, their phillosophy, practice and origins. Those who are knowledgable about these areas have no such problem. Look at most official definitions of Yoga they say Yoga is a Hindu religious practice.

I agree that Hinduism, Buddhism and Yoga have much similarity, I can?t understand why more of the population does not grasp the obvious improvement these practices would have for humanity.

You are creating confusion for yourself with the sentence, “Hinduism, Buddhism and Yoga” You are making Yoga sound like a separate religion from Hinduism and Buddhism. Nope, Yoga is a philosophy and practice which both Hinduism and Buddhism share and first originated in Hinduism.

Do you even know the fact that Buddhism came out of Hinduism?

generalizing and then dismissing another’s belief’s are the seeds to prejudiced action against them; especially by the more two-dimensional thinkers in that group. Christianity has it’s mystical branch as well which wants nothing more than union ( yoga ) with God, a trinity in one. Many scholars believe that Jesus traveled to India in his pre- 30 year old life and found much there to believe in. The dogma and subsequent actions and beliefs of those that came long after Jesus was crucified should not hold him for account , and who here knows what who here actually believes about the conjoining of spiritual phenomena with their belief in Jesus and his message. ( which basically he said was just love God and your neighbor - I think that axiom would go far in any religion ). One would think if the substance of his life were as we have heard along with " miracles " , he was someone close to the heart of anyones God. This world is Maya and many of the words in it that try to reflect an image of accentuated difference, are too. Namaste

No respectable scholar would say that Jesus went to India, there is not even a iota of evidence that Jesus of the Bible was an actual historical person. Making speculations about Jesus going to India is not something a historian would do. The word scholar is used very loosely. Many people have proclaimed themselves to be scholars without formal recognition from either academia or the tradition they profess to be scholars on. We cannot even say for sure that Jesus existed, how can we say that he went to India. Hinduism has influenced Christianity indirectly, not by Jesus going to India. Hindu influence in Christianity comes from Mithraism, Buddhism and Neo-Platoism/Stoicism which has its roots in Cynicism which in turn was inspired by the Avadhoota yogins. The Greek/Roman/Egyptian pagan religions also had their influence on Christianity.

Caravans were like the merchant marines and I’m sure many traveled to broaden their experience. You shouldn’t be so sure of the numinous past. Perhaps Jesus lives only in the heart- that would be enough. If you read Carlos Casteneda you might wonder if Don Juan were an actual person but if you inculcated the lessons of Don Juan you would know that his physical existence is secondary to the truth he represents. It would be harder to believe that there was no Jesus than that there was. I don’t adhere to a dogma if I can be aware of it ; make me aware. Show me the hard evidence that Jesus is made up. And saying that a King son of God dying on a tree/cross is a universal theme in religios myth etc. is not proof that sometime(s) a spiritual idea becomes manifest in this world.

There is no evidence for his existence, what little “evidence” there is, is second or third hand decades after his alleged life. A lot of Christian relics have now been proven to be fabricated, for example the Turin Shroud: http://pda.physorg.com/_news4652.html

Jesus is completely irrelevant in yoga which is rooted in Bharata Dharma and has nothing to do with Jesus. If you are a Christian, that’s a different story.

The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold

Acharya S is the pen name of D.M.Murdock, a proponent of the Jesus myth hypothesis. In 1999, she published her first book having the above title. In her Website http://truthbeknown.com/, she has given a six-part digest of the book under the title The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ. The digest is studded with extensive footnotes counting up to 120.

Acharya S quotes several Christian scholars in support of her findings on how the myth of Jesus Christ was woven, scripted and “cobbled up” from the religious, spiritual and astronomical legends all around the world. Here is a compilation of the six-part digest in her Website that throws fresh light on the discussions about Jesus, Christ and the origins of Christianity here.

Hindus need to remember here that her views on Krishna and other Hindu gods, Hindu texts and legends is typically that of the western scholars–more flawed than correct, and tailored to suit their purpose on hand. Whatever the accuracy of her other views, the digest does give solid pointers to the sources of the Myth of Jesus Christ.

After disproving the historicity of Jesus in the first two parts, the author starts with the myth of Jesus from the third part. My take on some of the presentations I have given in italics. I have also underlined key points in the digest and boldfaced key names. In addition, I have broken up long paragraphs into shorter ones for easier reading.

The Characters

It is evident that there was no single historical person upon whom the Christian religion was founded, and that “Jesus Christ” is a compilation of legends, heroes, gods and godmen. There is not adequate room here to go into detail about each god or godman that contributed to the formation of the Jewish Jesus character; suffice it to say that there is plenty of documentation to show that this issue is not a question of “faith” or “belief.”

The truth is that during the era this character supposedly lived there was an extensive library at Alexandria and an incredibly nimble brotherhood network that stretched from Europe to China, and this information network had access to numerous manuscripts that told the same narrative portrayed in the New Testament with different place names and ethnicity for the characters.

A typical strain in the writings of a Christian Aplolgist is: if something is favourable to their line of argument, it is the work of God through his Son Jesus. In all other cases, it is the Devil is at work, scheming to overthrow man from the Kingdom of God that can be had only through the Son of God.–sd

Justin Martyr (c.100-165), one of the earliest Christian Apologists says in his First Apology (incidentally he knew nothing of the four cannonical gospels of NT–sd):

"ANALOGIES TO THE HISTORY OF CHRIST. And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.

"For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; Aesculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus.

“For what shall I say of Ariadne, and those who, like her, have been declared to be set among the stars? And what of the emperors who die among yourselves, whom you deem worthy of deification, and in whose behalf you produce some one who swears he has seen the burning Caesar rise to heaven from the funeral pyre?”

In his endless apologizing, Justin reiterates the similarities between his godman and the gods of other cultures:

“As to the objection of our Jesus’s being crucified, I say, that suffering was common to all the aforementioned sons of Jove [Jupiter]… As to his being born of a virgin, you have your Perseus to balance that. As to his curing the lame, and the paralytic, and such as were cripples from birth, this is little more than what you say of your Aesculapius.”

And here comes the typical Christian strain, ‘the-devil-got-there-first’ syndrome!–sd

“It having reached the Devil’s ears that the prophets had foretold the coming of Christ, the Son of God, he set the heathen Poets to bring forward a great many who should be called the sons of Jove. The Devil laying his scheme in this, to get men to imagine that the true history of Christ was of the same characters the prodigious fables related of the sons of Jove.”

In his Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Martyr again admits the pre-existence of the Christian tale and then uses his standard, irrational and self-serving apology, i.e., “the devil got there first”:

"Be well assured, then, Trypho, that I am established in the knowledge of and faith in the Scriptures by those counterfeits which he who is called the devil is said to have performed among the Greeks; just as some were wrought by the Magi in Egypt, and others by the false prophets in Elijah’s days.

"For when they tell that Bacchus, son of Jupiter, was begotten by [Jupiter’s] intercourse with Semele, and that he was the discoverer of the vine; and when they relate, that being torn in pieces, and having died, he rose again, and ascended to heaven; and when they introduce wine into his mysteries, do I not perceive that [the devil] has imitated the prophecy announced by the patriarch Jacob, and recorded by Moses?

“And when they tell that Hercules was strong, and travelled over all the world, and was begotten by Jove of Alcmene, and ascended to heaven when he died, do I not perceive that the Scripture which speaks of Christ, “strong as a giant to run his race,” has been in like manner imitated? And when he [the devil] brings forward Aesculapius as the raiser of the dead and healer of all diseases, may I not say that in this matter likewise he has imitated the prophecies about Christ?.. And when I hear, Trypho, that Perseus was begotten of a virgin, I understand that the deceiving serpent counterfeited also this.”

The Jesus story incorporated elements from the tales of other deities recorded in this widespread area, such as many of the following world saviors and “sons of God,” most or all of whom predate the Christian myth, and a number of whom were crucified or executed.

• Adad of Assyria
• Adonis, Apollo, Heracles (“Hercules”) and Zeus of Greece
• Alcides of Thebes
• Attis of Phrygia
• Baal of Phoenicia
• Bali of Afghanistan
• Beddu of Japan
• Buddha of India
• Crite of Chaldea
• Deva Tat of Siam
• Hesus of the Druids

• Horus, Osiris, and Serapis of Egypt, whose long-haired, bearded appearance was adopted for the Christ character

Taylor quotes the letter of Emperor Hadrian (134 C.E.): “The worshippers of Serapis are Christians, and those are devoted to the God Serapis, who (I find) call themselves the bishops of Christ.”

• Indra of Tibet/India
• Jao of Nepal
• Krishna of India
• Mikado of the Sintoos
• Mithra of Persia
• Odin of the Scandinavians
• Prometheus of Caucasus/Greece
• Quetzalcoatl of Mexico
• Salivahana of Bermuda

• Tammuz of Syria (who was, in a typical mythmaking move, later turned into the disciple Thomas)

Walker: “… Later, an unknown Gospel writer inserted the story of doubting Thomas, who insisted on touching Jesus. This was to combat the heretical idea that there was no resurrection in the flesh, and also to subordinate Jerusalem’s municipal god Tammuz (Thomas) to the new savior. Actually, the most likely source of primary Christian mythology was the Tammuz cult in Jerusalem.” The “doubting Thomas” character also finds its place in the Mythos, as the “genius” of the time when the sun is at its weakest (winter solstice). (Taylor)

• Thor of the Gauls
• Universal Monarch of the Sibyls

The Sibylline Oracles, books produced over time allegedly by a number of pagan prophetesses called Sibyls, were widely regarded in the ancient world prior to the advent of the Christian era. “The Sibyls are quoted frequently by the early Fathers and Christian writers, Justin, Athenagoras, Theophilus, Clement of Alexandria, etc.” (Catholic Encyclopedia, cited by Wheless) These books or Oracles were often cited by Christians as proof of their religion.

For instance, the following is considered a Sibylline Oracle: “With five loaves at the same time, and with two fishes, He shall satisfy five thousand men in the wilderness; And afterwards taking all the fragments that remain, He shall fill twelve baskets to the hope of many. . . .He shall still the winds by His word, and calm the sea as it rages, treading with feet of peace and faith. … He shall walk on the waves, He shall release men from disease. He shall raise the dead, and drive away many pains. …” (Wheless)

Although the Christians interpreted this as a prophecy of Christ becoming fulfilled, it is in fact an aspect of the ubiquitous Mythos and was already said of Horus, for one, hundreds of years earlier. It has never referred to an actual man but, once again, is astrotheological. The fact that it purportedly existed prior to the Christian era constitutes proof to those who use logic that the Christians utilized it in creating their Christ character, rather than it acting as a prophecy of their godman.

As they did with other texts, the Christians forged and interpolated many passages into the well-known Oracles in order to cement their fiction and convert followers. It is also amusing to note that the Christians had to resort to despised “pagan” documents for their enterprise, especially since they spent their lives attempting to demonstrate that everything that preceded them was “of the devil.” This then implies that Christianity was also a work of the devil.

• Wittoba of the Bilingonese
• Xamolxis of Thrace
• Zarathustra/Zoroaster of Persia
• Zoar of the Bonzes

The Major Players
Buddha and Krishna of India

Although most people think of Buddha as being one person who lived around 500 B.C.E., like Jesus the character commonly portrayed as Buddha can also be demonstrated to be a compilation of godmen, legends and sayings of various holy men both preceding and succeeding the period attributed to the Buddha.
(http://truthbeknown.com/buddha.htm)

Quote:
It seems that in many of the Western and Christian scholars’ view, Buddha and Krishna were mythical characters ‘cobbled up’ (to use Sarabhanga’s phrase) from several earlier legends. These scholars often simply ignore the version in Hindu texts and dismissing them as ‘orthodox or traditional view’. However, they fail to provide any solid evidence for their arguments here, often stating that they heard the story from Brahmanas and other learned Hindu scholars.

Acharya S, the author of the website (http://truthbeknown.com/) has stated as above in Buddha’s case. In the case of Krishna, she simply cites the version of the French ‘scholar and Indianist’ Jacolliot who ‘recounts the death of Christna’ as a case of crucifixion.

Acharya S, citing Jacolliot says “After thrice plunging into the sacred river, Krishna knelt and prayed as he awaited death, which was ultimately caused by multiple arrows shot by a criminal whose offenses had been exposed by Krishna. The executioner, named Angada, was thereafter condemned to wander the banks of the Ganges for eternity, subsisting off the dead.”–sd
(http://truthbeknown.com/kcrucified.htm , http://truthbeknown.com/virgin.htm)
Regarding the Buddhist influence on the gospel story, in 2003 Buddhist and Sanskrit scholar Dr.Christian Lindtner wrote the following:

“The Sanskrit manuscripts prove without a shadow of doubt: Everything that Jesus says or does was already said or done by the Buddha. Jesus, therefore, is a mere literary fiction.” And the scholar cites these cases of Buddha as adopted for the Christ character: 'Last Supper, Baptism, miracles, twelve disciples, Kind Gautama crucifixion (?–sd).

Concerning the “crucifixion” of Buddha, as related in a Buddhist text dating to the first century BCE (Samghabhedavastu/ Mah?parinirv?na s?tra), Ken Humphreys states:

“In this story of ‘Gautama, a holy man’ our hero is wrongfully condemned to die on the cross for murdering the courtesan Bhadra. Gautama is impaled on a cross, and his mentor Krishna Dvapayana visits him and enters into a long dialogue, at the end of which Gautama dies at the place of skulls after engendering two offspring - the progenitors of the Ikshavaku Dynasty.”

Humphreys further relates that “the dead Buddha is burned and it is the smoke of his corpse which rises - the true ‘resurrection.’”

Horus of Egypt

The stories of Jesus and Horus are very similar, with Horus even contributing the name of Jesus Christ. Horus and his once-and-future Father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable in the mythos (“I and my Father are one”). The legends of Horus go back thousands of years, and he shares the following in common with Jesus:

virgin birth–child teacher–“Anup the Baptizer,” becomes “John the Baptist”–12 disciples–miracles, raising El-Azar-us from dead–walking on water–transfigured on the Mount–killed, buried in tomb and resurrected–The Messiah, God’s Anointed Son–‘The Fisher’ associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish (“Ichthys”)–Horus’s personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.”–Horus (or Osiris) was called “the KRST,” long before the Christians duplicated the story.

In fact, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis–the original “Madonna and Child”–and the Vatican itself is built upon the papacy of Mithra, who shares many qualities with Jesus and who existed as a deity long before the Jesus character was formalized. The Christian hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version it replaced. Virtually all of the elements of the Catholic ritual, from miter to wafer to water to altar to doxology, are directly taken from earlier pagan mystery religions.

Mithra, Sungod of Persia

The story of Mithra precedes the Christian fable by at least 600 years. According to Wheless, the cult of Mithra was, shortly before the Christian era, “the most popular and widely spread ‘Pagan’ religion of the times.” Mithra has the following in common with the Christ character:

Birthdate Dec 25–great travelling teacher and master–12 companions or disciples–performed miracles–buried in a tomb–rose again after three days–resurrection celebrated every year–called “The Good Shepherd”–considered “the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah”–identified with both the Lion and the Lamb–His sacred day was Sunday, “the Lord’s Day,” hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.–his principal festival was what later became Easter, at which time he was resurrected.–His religion had a Eucharist or “Lord’s Supper.”

Prometheus of Greece

The Greek god Prometheus has been claimed to have come from Egypt, but his drama took place in the Caucasus mountains. Prometheus shares a number of striking similarities with the Christ character.

• Prometheus descended from heaven as God incarnate as man, to save mankind.
• He was crucified, suffered and rose from the dead.
• He was called the Logos or Word.

Five centuries before the Christian era, esteemed Greek poet Aeschylus wrote Prometheus Bound, which, according to Taylor, was presented in the theater in Athens. Taylor claims that in the play Prometheus is crucified “on a fatal tree” and the sky goes dark.

Tradition holds that Prometheus was crucified on a rock, yet some sources have opined that legend also held he was crucified on a tree. … In any case, the sun hiding in darkness parallels the Christian fable of the darkness descending when Jesus was crucified. This remarkable occurrence is not recorded in history but is only explainable within the Mythos and as part of a recurring play.

The Creation of a Myth

The Christians went on a censorship rampage that led to the virtual illiteracy of the ancient world and ensured that their secret would be hidden from the masses, but the scholars of other schools/sects never gave up their arguments against the historicizing of a very ancient mythological creature. We have lost the arguments of these learned dissenters because the Christians destroyed any traces of their works. Nonetheless, the Christians preserved the contentions of their detractors through the Christians’ own refutations.

For example, early Church Father Tertullian (@ 160-220 C.E.), an “ex-Pagan” and Bishop of Carthage, ironically admits the true origins of the Christ story and of all other such godmen by stating in refutation of his critics, “You say we worship the sun; so do you.” Interestingly, a previously strident believer and defender of the faith, Tertullian later renounced Christianity.

The “Son” of God is the “Sun” of God

The reason why all these narratives are so similar, with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.

In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula (the “Mythos,” as mentioned above) revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens.

For instance, many of the world’s crucified godmen have their traditional birthday on December 25th (“Christmas”). This is because the ancients recognized that (from an earthcentric perspective) the sun makes an annual descent southward until December 21st or 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops moving southerly for three days and then starts to move northward again.

During this time, the ancients declared that “God’s sun” had “died” for three days and was “born again” on December 25th. The ancients realized quite abundantly that they needed the sun to return every day and that they would be in big trouble if the sun continued to move southward and did not stop and reverse its direction. Thus, these many different cultures celebrated the “sun of God’s” birthday on December 25th. The following are the characteristics of the “sun of God”:

The sun “dies” for three days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops in its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.

In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be “born of a Virgin.” Thus:

• The sun is the “Light of the World.”
• The sun “cometh on clouds, and every eye shall see him.”
• The sun rising in the morning is the “Savior of mankind.”
• The sun wears a corona, “crown of thorns” or halo.71
• The sun “walks on water.”

• The sun’s “followers,” “helpers” or “disciples” are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.

• The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the “Most High”; thus, “he” begins “his Father’s work” at “age” 12.

• The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30?; hence, the “Sun of God” begins his ministry at “age” 30.

• The sun is hung on a cross or “crucified,” which represents its passing through the equinoxes, the vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.

Contrary to popular belief, the ancients were not an ignorant and superstitious lot who actually believed their deities to be literal characters. Indeed, this slanderous propaganda has been part of the conspiracy to make the ancients appear as if they were truly the dark and dumb rabble that was in need of the “light of Jesus”.

The reality is that the ancients were no less advanced in their morals and spiritual practices, and in many cases were far more advanced, than the Christians in their own supposed morality and ideology, which, in its very attempt at historicity, is in actuality a degradation of the ancient Mythos.

Indeed, unlike the “superior” Christians, the true intelligentsia amongst the ancients were well aware that their gods were astronomical and atmospheric in nature. Socrates, Plato and Aristotle surely knew that Zeus, the sky god father figure who migrated to Greece from India and/or Egypt, was never a real person, despite the fact that the Greeks have designated on Crete both a birth cave and a death cave of Zeus. In addition, all over the world are to be found sites where this god or that allegedly was born, walked, suffered, died, etc., a common and unremarkable occurrence that is not monopolized by, and did not originate with, Christianity.

Etymology Tells the Story

Zeus, aka “Zeus Pateras,” who we now automatically believe to be a myth and not a historical figure, takes his name from the Indian version, “Dyaus Pitar.” Dyaus Pitar in turn is related to the Egyptian “Ptah,” and from both Pitar and Ptah comes the word “pater,” or “father.”

“Zeus” equals “Dyaus,” which became “Deos,” “Deus” and “Dios”–“God.” “Zeus Pateras,” like Dyaus Pitar, means, “God the Father,” a very ancient concept that in no way originated with “Jesus” and Christianity. There is no question of Zeus being a historical character.

Dyaus Pitar becomes “Jupiter” in Roman mythology, and likewise is not representative of an actual, historical character. In Egyptian mythology, Ptah, the Father, is the unseen god-force, and the sun was viewed as Ptah’s visible proxy who brings everlasting life to the earth; hence, the “son of God” is really the “sun of God.”

Indeed, according to Hotema, the very name “Christ” comes from the Hindi word “Kris” (as in Krishna), which is a name for the sun.

Furthermore, since Horus was called “Iusa/Iao/Iesu” the “KRST,” and Krishna/Christna was called “Jezeus,” (?–sd) centuries before any Jewish character similarly named, it would be safe to assume that Jesus Christ is just a repeat of Horus and Krishna, among the rest.

According to Rev.Taylor, the title “Christ” in its Hebraic form meaning “Anointed” (“Masiah”) was held by all kings of Israel, as well as being “so commonly assumed by all sorts of impostors, conjurers, and pretenders to supernatural communications, that the very claim to it is in the gospel itself considered as an indication of imposture…”

Hotema states that the name “Jesus Christ” was not formally adopted in its present form until after the first Council of Nicea, i.e., in 325 C.E.

In actuality, even the place names and the appellations of many other characters in the New Testament can be revealed to be Hebraicized renderings of the Egyptian texts.

As an example, in the fable of “Lazarus,” the mummy raised from the dead by Jesus, the Christian copyists did not change his name much, “El-Azar-us” being the Egyptian mummy raised from the dead by Horus possibly 1,000 years or more before the Jewish version.80 This story is allegory for the sun reviving its old, dying self, or father, as in “El-Osiris.” It is not a true story.

Horus’s principal enemy–originally Horus’s other face or “dark” aspect - was “Set” or “Sata,” whence comes “Satan.” Horus struggles with Set in the exact manner that Jesus battles with Satan, with 40 days in the wilderness, among other similarities. This is because this myth represents the triumph of light over dark, or the sun’s return to relieve the terror of the night.

“Jerusalem” simply means “City of Peace,” and the actual city in Israel was named after the holy city of peace in the Egyptian sacred texts that already existed at the time the city was founded. Likewise, “Bethany,” site of the famous multiplying of the loaves, means “House of God,” and is allegory for the “multiplication of the many out of the One.” Any town of that designation was named for the allegorical place in the texts that existed before the town’s foundation. The Egyptian predecessor and counterpart is “Bethanu.”

The Book of Revelation is Egyptian and Zoroastrian

One can find certain allegorical place names such as “Jerusalem” and “Israel” in the Book of Revelation. Massey has stated that Revelation, rather than having been written by any apostle called John during the 1st Century C.E., is a very ancient text that dates to the beginning of this era of history, i.e. possibly as early as 4,000 years ago. Massey asserts that Revelation relates the Mithraic legend of Zarathustra/Zoroaster.

Hotema says of this mysterious book, which has baffled mankind for centuries: “It is expressed in terms of creative phenomena; its hero is not Jesus but the Sun of the Universe, its heroine is the Moon; and all its other characters are Planets, Stars and Constellations; while its stage-setting comprises the Sky, the Earth, the Rivers and the Sea.” The common form of this text has been attributed by Churchward to Horus’s scribe, Aan, whose name has been passed down to us as “John.”

The word Israel itself, far from being a Jewish appellation, probably comes from the combination of three different reigning deities: Isis, the Earth Mother Goddess revered throughout the ancient world; Ra, the Egyptian sungod; and El, the Semitic deity passed down in form as Saturn. El was one of the earliest names for the god of the ancient Hebrews (whence Emmanu-El, Micha-El, Gabri-El, Samu-El, etc., and his worship is reflected in the fact that the Jews still consider Saturday as “God’s Day.”

Indeed, that the Christians worship on Sunday betrays the genuine origins of their god and godman. Their “savior” is actually the sun, which is the “Light of the world that every eye can see.” The sun has been viewed consistently throughout history as the savior of mankind for reasons that are obvious. Without the sun, the planet would scarcely last one day. So important was the sun to the ancients that they composed a “Sun Book,” or “Helio Biblia,” which became the “Holy Bible.”

The “Patriarchs” and “Saints” are the Gods of Other Cultures

When one studies mythmaking, one can readily discern and delineate a pattern that is repeated throughout history. Whenever an invading culture takes over its predecessors, it either vilifies the preceding deities or makes them into lesser gods, “patriarchs” or, in the case of Christianity, “saints.”

This process is exemplified in the adoption of the Hindu god Brahma as the Hebrew patriarch Abraham. Another school of thought proposes that the patriarch Joshua was based on Horus as “Iusa,” since the cult of Horus had migrated by this period to the Levant. In this theory, the cult of Joshua, which was situated in exactly the area where the Christ drama allegedly took place, then mutated into the Christian story, with Joshua becoming Jesus. As Robertson says, “The Book of Joshua leads us to think that he had several attributes of the Sun-god, and that, like Samson and Moses, he was an ancient deity reduced to human status.”

Indeed, the legend of Moses, rather than being that of a historical Hebrew character, is found around the ancient Middle and Far East, with the character having different names and races, depending on the locale:

“Manou” is the Indian legislator; “Nemo the lawgiver,” who brought down the tablets from the Mountain of God, hails from Babylon; “Mises” is found in Syria and Egypt, where also “Manes the lawgiver” takes the stage; “Minos” is the Cretan reformer; and the Ten Commandments are simply a repetition of the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi and the Hindu Vedas, among others.

Like Moses, Krishna was placed by his mother in a reed boat and set adrift in a river to be discovered by another woman. (the author cites the story Mahabharata in her footnote, obviously mistaking Karna for Krishna. Incidentally, Karna was also the ‘son of the Sun god’.–sd)

A century ago, Massey outlined, and Graham recently reiterated, that even the Exodus itself is not a historical event. That the historicity of the Exodus has been questioned is echoed by the lack of any archaeological record, as is reported in Biblical Archaeology Review (“BAR”), September/October 1994

Like many biblical characters, Noah is also a myth, long ago appropriated from the Egyptians, the Sumerians and others, as any sophisticated scholar could demonstrate, and yet we find all sorts of books–some even presumably “channeling” the “ultimate truth” from a mystical, omniscient, omnipresent and eternal being such as Jesus himself - prattling on about a genuine, historical Noah, his extraordinary adventures, and the “Great Flood!”

Additionally, the “Esther” of the Old Testament Book of Esther is a remake of the Goddess Ishtar, Astarte, Astoreth or Isis, from whom comes “Easter” and about whose long and ubiquitous reign little is said in “God’s infallible Word.”

Per Harwood (Mythology’s Last Gods, 230), “Esther” is best transliterated “Ishtar” and “Mordechai” is “Mardukay.” The Virgin Mother/Goddess/Queen of Heaven motif is found around the globe, long before the Christian era, with Isis, for instance, also being called “Mata-Meri” (“Mother Mary”).

As Walker says, “Mari” was the “basic name of the Goddess known to the Chaldeans as Marratu, to the Jews as Marah, to the Persians as Mariham, to the Christians as Mary… Semites worshipped an androgynous combination of Goddess and God called Mari-El (Mary-God), corresponding to the Egyptian Meri-Ra, which combined the feminine principle of water with the masculine principle of the sun.”

Even the Hebraic name of God, “Yahweh,” was taken from the Egyptian “IAO.”

In one of the most notorious of Christian deceptions, in order to convert followers of “Lord Buddha,” the Church canonized him as “St. Josaphat,” which represented a Christian corruption of the buddhistic title, “Bodhisat.”

The “Disciples” are the Signs of the Zodiac

Moreover, it is no accident that there are 12 patriarchs and 12 disciples, 12 being the number of the astrological signs, or months. Indeed, like the 12 Herculean tasks and the 12 “helpers” of Horus, Jesus’s 12 disciples are symbolic for the zodiacal signs and do not depict any literal figures who played out a drama upon the earth circa 30 C.E.

The disciples can be shown to have been an earlier deity/folkloric hero/constellation.

• Peter is easily revealed to be a mythological character,

• while Judas has been said to represent Scorpio, “the backbiter,” the time of year when the sun’s rays are weakening and the sun appears to be dying.

• James, “brother of Jesus” and “brother of the Lord,” is equivalent to Amset, brother of Osiris and brother of the Lord.

• Massey says “Taht-Matiu was the scribe of the gods, and in Christian art Matthew is depicted as the scribe of the gods, with an angel standing near him, to dictate the gospel.”

• Even the apostle Paul is a compilation of several characters: The Old Testament Saul, Apollonius of Tyana and the Greek demigod Orpheus.

Was Jesus an Essene Master?

As regards Jesus being an Essene according to “secret” Dead Sea Scrolls, even before the discovery of the scrolls, over the centuries there has been much speculation to this effect, but Massey skillfully argued that many of Jesus’s presumed teachings were either in contradiction to or were non-existent in Essene philosophy.

The Essenes did not believe in corporeal resurrection, nor did they believe in a carnalized messiah. They did not accept the historicity of Jesus. They were not followers of the Hebrew Bible, or its prophets, or the concept of the original fall that must produce a savior. Massey further points out that the Essenes were teetotalers and ate to live rather than the other way around.

Compared to this, the assumed Essene Jesus appears to be a glutton and drunkard. Also, whereas according to Josephus the Essenes abhorred the swearing of oaths, Jesus was fond of “swearing unto” his disciples. While many Essenic doctrines are included in the New Testament, the list of disparities between the Dead Sea Scroll Essenes and their alleged great master Jesus goes on.

Qumran is Not an Essene Community

It should also be noted that there is another debate as to whether or not Qumran, the site traditionally associated with the Dead Sea Scrolls, was an Essene community. In BAR, previously cited, it is reported that archaeological finds indicate Qumran was not an Essene community but was possibly a waystation for travelers and merchants crossing the Dead Sea. In BAR, it has also been hypothesized that the fervent tone and warrior-stance of some of the scrolls unearthed near Qumran belie any Essene origin and indicate a possible attribution to Jewish Zealots instead.

In ‘Who Wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls’, Norman Golb makes a very good case that the Dead Sea Scrolls were not written by any Essene scribes but were a collection of tomes from various libraries that were secreted in caves throughout eastern Israel by Jews fleeing the Roman armies during the First Revolt of 70 A.D. Golb also hypothesizes that Qumran itself was a fortress, not a monastery. In any case, it is impossible to equate the “Teacher of Righteousness” found in any scrolls with Jesus Christ.

Was the New Testament Composed by Therapeuts?

In 1829 Rev.Taylor adeptly made the case that the entire Gospel story was already in existence long before the beginning of the Common Era and was probably composed by the monks at Alexandria called “Therapeuts” in Greek and “Essenes” in Egyptian, both names meaning “healers.”

• This theory has stemmed in part from the statement of early church father Eusebius, who, in a rare moment of seeming honesty, “admitted…that the canonical Christian gospels and epistles were the ancient writings of the Essenes or Therapeutae reproduced in the name of Jesus.”

• Taylor also opines that “the travelling Egyptian Therapeuts brought the whole story from India to their monasteries in Egypt, where, some time after the commencement of the Roman monarchy, it was transmuted in Christianity.”

• In addition, Wheless evinces that one can find much of the fable of “Jesus Christ” in the Book of Enoch, which predated the supposed advent of the Jewish master by hundreds of years.

• According to Massey, it was the “pagan” Gnostics–who included members of the Essene/Therapeut and Nazarene brotherhoods, among others–who actually carried to Rome the esoteric (gnostic) texts containing the Mythos, upon which the numerous gospels, including the canonical four, were based.

• Wheless says, “Obviously, the Gospels and other New Testament booklets, written in Greek and quoting 300 times the Greek Septuagint, and several Greek Pagan authors, as Aratus, and Cleanthes, were written, not by illiterate Jewish peasants, but by Greek-speaking ex-Pagan Fathers and priests far from the Holy Land of the Jews.”

• Mead averred, “We thus conclude that the autographs of our four Gospels were most probably written in Egypt, in the reign of Hadrian.”

Conclusion

As Walker said, “Scholars’ efforts to eliminate paganism from the Gospels in order to find a historical Jesus have proved as hopeless as searching for a core in an onion.” The “gospel” story of Jesus is not a factual portrayal of a historical “master” who walked the earth 2,000 years ago. It is a myth built upon other myths and godmen, who in turn were personifications of the ubiquitous sungod mythos.

“The Christ of the gospels is in no sense an historical personage or a supreme model of humanity, a hero who strove, and suffered, and failed to save the world by his death. It is impossible to establish the existence of an historical character even as an impostor. For such an one the two witnesses, astronomical mythology and gnosticism, completely prove an alibi. The Christ is a popular lay-figure that never lived, and a lay-figure of Pagan origin; a lay-figure that was once the Ram and afterwards the Fish; a lay-figure that in human form was the portrait and image of a dozen different gods.” --Gerald Massey

http://www.srimatham.com/storage/docs/Why%20Hindus%20Should%20Reject%20Jesus.pdf

http://www.srimatham.com/storage/docs/hindu-criticism-evangelical-christians.pdf

Bible Unmasked

Funny how when your authority proves Jesus didn’t exist she’s right and when she says bad things about Krishna et al she’s typical of western bad scholarship , and you shouldn’t be surprised that I’ve read almost all that you copied there long ago because my last quote above was to ask you not to do what you just did since because something fits a universal construct in the spiritual mind it doesn’t mean that it can’t become realized in the flesh. All that shows a tendency in the human mind and ancient authorities that aren’t authorities. All that shows is that Jesus was a good idea whose time may’ve come. All that didn’t prove Jesus didn’t exist- I am unconvinced that it is easier to believe that he didn’t exist than he did. ( I’ve read long ago cover to cover The Woman’s Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets by Barbara G Walker who was an archivist at the Library of Congress . I showed this book to my History prof. at University ( yes, I majored and got my degree in History ) and he said it was well researched. It does gives plenty of sources )) so I am well aware of your argument above- yet just because there are archetypes doesn’t mean a real one can’t get into the world, some ideas become and are manifested because the conditions are set and they need to be. So they are. Your argument gives plenty of room for someone to dismiss Jesus as just another story but it still doesn’t give any hard evidence that he didn’t exist And I’m not saying I have hard evidence that he did. It doesn’t matter that much to me- as I said before, the lessons given in his name and the example of his supposed life are great models of how to live and become closer to God, what else is there ?

I wanted to delete that article, but I was too late. After 30 minutes I was unable to do so. I got that from a friend and I hadn’t read it yet. I actually don’t endorse that author, because her facts are not always straight. I have seen her book and her comparisons are not always correct.

But I have provided other sources, three documents by Sri Rama Ramanuja Acharya who has studied the abrahamatic religions for 8 years in the middle east before he became a Hindu priest. I have also discussed this topic with a historian.

But since there’s no hard evidence for the existence of Jesus (I couldn’t care either way whether he existed or not), him having gone to India is even more speculative than his existence. This story is just a modern invention to bridge yoga with christ. That was my point. If you want to believe in Jesus, that is not my concern. Just saying that Jesus going to India is highly speculative and by no means something an authentic scholar would say.

Yes, you can value Jesus’ teachings which are passed down in the Christian tradition. I have no concern what you value, the only question I ask is not to spread misinformation about Jesus going to India.

As you say it’s speculation , as most history is, real scholars of history admit this- there are estabishment scholars who rigorously admit nothing except that with tangible proof; I respect that but would not be bind myself by it : it’s like holding on to a floating log when you can swim, though you don’t know how far the shore is. In my case the shore is wherever I stand. String theory is speculation but it opens the mind to think of it, Jesus may be a theory but he opens the heart to feel that love he espressed. The bridge between Jesus and India was not impassable at his time, St. Thomas is the patron saint of India I believe- he was one of the apostles-he went there by boat as I recall. Besides Jesus didn’t have to go there physically for India’s teaching to reach him, the point is the message many mystics who identify themselves as christian believe in the same core values as yoga, as the Mosaic law also paralells the code of Hammurabi. Personally, I believe in a samurai named Musashi Miyamoto, he actually lived has a death certicate , birthday and friends who also have those. I know him through the book by Eiji Yoshikawa, which speculates around facts for a dramatic novel. He is an example to me about how to live, how to make more of myself, day by day…is there more than that ?

I am reading the Lone Samurai now- a documentary- not a novel and if it shows Musashi in a lesser light than I had him in I would still go to the light I could see further with

The Sun illuminates the earth and the night the larger Universe, we need both. Don’t let seeking truth become heliocentric. Dark matters sometimes. Entertain yourself to educate yourself and possibly lead to paths that are better. " There are more things in this world than are dreamt of in your philosophies, Horatio " - Shakespeare’s Hamlet

[QUOTE=TonyTamer;59140]As you say it’s speculation , as most history is, real scholars of history admit this- there are estabishment scholars who rigorously admit nothing except that with tangible proof; I respect that but would not be bind myself by it : [/quote]Jesus going to India is as plausible as Jesus going to Amsterdam, Moskou or Johannesburg. Even mexicans claim that Jesus went to Mexico.

The bridge between Jesus and India was not impassable at his time, St. Thomas is the patron saint of India I believe- he was one of the apostles-he went there by boat as I recall.

“Thomas in India” neither factual or secular
OrigenIt is clear enough that many Christians including the Pope have long given up the belief in Thomas’s Indian exploits, or – like the Church Fathers – never believed in them in the first place. In contrast with European Christians today, Indian Christians live in a 17th century bubble, as if they are too puerile to stand in the daylight of solid historical fact. They remain in a twilight of legend and lies, at the command of ambitious “medieval” bishops who mislead them with the St. Thomas in India fable for purely selfish reasons.

St. ThomasA predictable component of platitudinous speeches by secularist politicians is that “Christianity was brought to India by the apostle Thomas in the 1st century AD, even before it was brought to Europe”. The intended thrust of this claim is that, unlike Hinduism which was imposed by the “Aryan invaders”, Christianity is somehow an Indian religion, even though it is expressly stated that it “was brought to India” from outside. As a matter of detail, St. Paul reported on Christian communities living in Greece, Rome and Spain in the 40s AD, while St. Thomas even according to his followers only came to India in 52 AD, so by all accounts, Christianity still reached Europe before India.[1] At any rate, its origins lay in West Asia, outside India. But this geographical primacy is not the main issue here. More importantly, there is nothing factual, nor secular, about the claim that Thomas ever came to India.

Acts of ThomasThat claim is a stark instance of what secularists would denounce in other cases as a “myth”. By this, I don’t mean that it was concocted in a backroom conspiracy, then propagated by obliging mercenary scribes (the way many Hindus imagine the colonial origins of the “Aryan invasion myth” came into being). It came about in a fairly innocent manner, through a misunderstanding, a misreading of an apocryphal text, the miracle-laden hagiography Acts of Thomas. This is not the place to discuss the unflattering picture painted of Thomas in his own hagiography, which credits him with many anti-social acts. The point for now is that the text never mentions nor describes the subcontinent but merely has the apostle go from Palestine eastwards to a desert-like country where people are “Mazdei” [Zoroastrian] and have Persian names. This is definitely not lush and green Kerala. Not only is there no independent record of Thomas ever coming near India, but the only source claimed for this story, doesn’t even make this claim either.[2]

Thomas of CanaHowever, we know of a Thomas of Cana who led a group of Christian refugees from Iran in the 4th century, when the christianisation of the Roman empire caused the Iranians to see their Syriac-speaking Christian minority as a Roman fifth column. The name “Thomas Christians” may originally have referred to this 4th-century leader.

Then again, those refugees may also have been “Thomas Christians” before their migration to India in the sense that their Christian community had been founded in Iran [viz. Church of Fars] by the apostle Thomas. That he lived and worked in some Iranian region is attested and likely, but in no case did he ever settle in India.

Clement of AlexandriaThe Church Fathers Clement of Alexandra, Origen and Eusebius confirm explicitly that he settled in “Parthia”, a part of the Iranian world. From the 3rd century, we do note an increasing tendency among Christian authors to locate him in a place labelled ‘India’, as does the Acts of Thomas. But it must be borne in mind that this term was very vague, designating the whole region extending from Iran eastwards. Remember that when Columbus had landed in America, which he thought was East Asia, he labelled the indigenous people “Indians”, meaning “Asians”. Afghanistan is one area that was Iranian-speaking and predominantly Mazdean [Zoroastrian] but often considered part of “India”. Moreover, in some periods of history it was even politically united with parts of “India” in the narrow sense. So, Afghanistan may well be the “Western India” where Pope Benedict placed St.Thomas in his controversial speech in September 2006, to the dismay of the South Indian bishops.

Thomas & Hindu AssassinWhile the belief that Thomas settled in South India came about as an honest mistake, the claim that he was martyred by Brahmins was always a deliberate lie, playing upon a possible confusion between the consonants of the expression “be ruhme”, meaning “with a spear”, and those of “Brahma” (Semitic alphabets usually don’t specify vowels). That was the gratitude Hindus received in return for extending their hospitality to the Christian refugees: being blackened as the murderers of the refugees’ own hero. If the Indian bishops have any honour, they will themselves remove this false allegation from their discourse and their monuments, including the cathedral in Chennai built at the site of Thomas’s purported martyrdom (actually the site of a Shiva temple). Indeed, they will issue a historic declaration expressing their indebtedness to Hindu hospitality and pluralism and pledging to renounce their anti-Hindu animus.

Sri RamaSecularists keep on reminding us that there is no archaeological evidence for Rama’s travels, and from this they deduce the non sequitur that Rama never existed, indeed that “Rama’s story is only a myth”. But in Rama’s case, we at least do have a literary testimony, the Ramayana, which in the absence of material evidence may or may not be truthful, while in the case of Thomas’s alleged arrival in India, we don’t even have a literary account. The text cited in the story’s favour doesn’t even have him come to a region identifiable as South India. That is why Christian scholars outside India have no problem abandoning the myth of Thomas’s landing in Kerala and of his martyrdom in Tamil Nadu. I studied at the Catholic University of Louvain, and our Jesuit professor of religious history taught us that there is no data that could dignify the Thomas legend with the status of history.

Benedict XVIThis eliminates the last excuse the secularists might offer for repeating the Thomas legend, viz. that the historical truth would hurt the feelings of the Christian minority. It is clear enough that many Christians including the Pope have long given up the belief in Thomas’s Indian exploits, or (like the Church Fathers mentioned above) never believed in them in the first place. In contrast with European Christians today, Indian Christians live in a 17th century bubble, as if they are too puerile to stand in the daylight of solid historical fact. They remain in a twilight of legend and lies, at the command of ambitious “medieval” bishops who mislead them with the St. Thomas in India fable for purely selfish reasons.

Besides Jesus didn’t have to go there physically for India’s teaching to reach him,

That is what I have been saying all along. Possible influence from Hinduism in Christianity comes from Buddhism, Mithraism, Cynicism, Stoicism and Platoism and other pagan religions which were somewhat similar to Hinduism.

the point is the message many mystics who identify themselves as christian believe in the same core values as yoga, as the Mosaic law also paralells the code of Hammurabi.
The point still is that in the Bible the path of samadhi, kundalini awakening, brahman realisation is recognised not as a valid means for salvation and may even be considered a form of blasphemy.

I am impressed with your scholarship , right or wrong. It certainly brings serious doubts to my mind about Thomas. The last point though is, like I said before, confusing Christ with Christians ( in general ). As far as I know Jesus didn’t write the Bible. Even yoga authorities warn against focus being on those things on the way to identification with the Absolute. Salvation as the wise say is simple but very hard to accomplish for most who lead with hard heads instead of soft hearts. I don’t for a second disparage you well-thought out and supported arguments but I think it’s originally was headed the wrong way disparaging Christians as a group. If you don’t allow for better believers worse beliefs are engendered. We all want to work against prejudice.

The above is an article I quoted, sorry if I gave the impression that I am a scholar. :wink:

I acknowledge that there are more liberal Christians who do not go around saying all heathens are worshipping false gods and will burn in hell. I just don’t see the point of forging history to make Christians look better. The abrahamic religions are pretty much the cause for most religious violence and terrorism throughout history, we need to acknowledge that as well.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59060]It is not a heated debate, it is a stupid debate. The people who are saying that Yoga has not originated from Hinduism are people who are ignorant of both Yoga and Hinduism, their phillosophy, practice and origins. Those who are knowledgable about these areas have no such problem. Look at most official definitions of Yoga they say Yoga is a Hindu religious practice.[/QUOTE]

Yes it is a stupid debate, I’ve reviewed the likes of Deepak Chopra, Georg Feuerstein, David Frawley, Ramesh Bjonnes and many others from diverse backgrounds this subject and cannot come to the same conclusion as you.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59060]You are creating confusion for yourself with the sentence, “Hinduism, Buddhism and Yoga” You are making Yoga sound like a separate religion from Hinduism and Buddhism. Nope, Yoga is a philosophy and practice which both Hinduism and Buddhism share and first originated in Hinduism…[/QUOTE]

I do not view yoga as a religion or a philosophy.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;59060]Do you even know the fact that Buddhism came out of Hinduism?[/QUOTE]

It appears they have all come from the same area on the planet.

There’s been violence , one against another, since time began; many reasons are given but it’s always boils down to wanting power over others. Blaming serves the purpose of showing errors. There should be an end to blame as too much creates a mark that makes for shame and guilt that in turn create violence again. Everytime we meet it would be nice of me to point out the positives to you, " What a great smile " vs. the negatives- you have a pimple on your nose. I don’t believe Abrahamic religions create violence more than the individual adherents do. Individuals have found reasons for violence in every religion. Kill the infidels who blaspheme is universal. All religions are like different fingers of the same hand reaching for God. The ones that bite that hand are not religious by my measure.

[QUOTE=TonyTamer;59156]I don’t believe Abrahamic religions create violence more than the individual adherents do. Individuals have found reasons for violence in every religion. Kill the infidels who blaspheme is universal.[/QUOTE]

As someone who has actually studied history a great deal(*), let me just stop you right there. There has actually been a lot of scholarship on that matter, and anyone who studies it can see that that is certainly NOT the case. It was only with the advent of Biblical Monotheism ([I]which differs from other traditions in that it, and its variants, believe in not on “one god,” but that their god is the [U]only[/U] god[/I]) that religious intolerance was created. Sure, Romans fought Greeks, who fought Celts, who fought Egyptians…but not because they each thought they had the “one true religion” or that the other peoples’ religions were “false.”

The respected Egyptologist Dr. Jan Assmann coined the term the “Mosaic Distinction” to describe the shift between the more “universalist” views of non-Biblical religions, to the “join or die” weltanschauung that begins in the Old Testament, and has clouded human history for the past few thousand years.

[I]“These new religions can therefore perhaps be characterized most adequately by the term ‘counterreligion.’ For these religions, and for these religions alone, the truth to be proclaimed comes with an enemy to be fought. Only they know of heretics and pagans, false doctrine, sects, superstition, idolatry, magic, ignorance, unbelief, heresy, and whatever other terms have been coined to designate what they denounce, persecute and proscribe as manifestations of untruth.”[/I] – Jan Assmann,[I] “The Price of Monotheism,”[/I] Stanford University Press, p. 4

Another good book to read is, [I]“God Against the Gods: The History of the War Between Monotheism and Polytheism,”[/I] by Jonathan Kirsch. Essentially, when a Roman entered a Gaulish temple and saw a Celtic deity like Alator…or spoke to a German about Tyr…he simply said to himself, “Oh, you’re talking about Mars!” There was never any idea that Zeus was “better” than Jupiter or vice-versa. They all knew that they were worshiping the same deities.

Furthermore, in regards to “Jesus,” let me point out, before even bothering with these myths about him going to India or whatever…that there is no evidence (unless you consider the Bible “evidence”) proving his existence whatsoever. Check it out: Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, etc…They were all written DECADES after 33CE. In fact, none of those authors were even BORN at the time that “Jesus” is alleged to have existed. Sure, there may have been a Christian sect in existence at that time. I’m not saying Christianity as a religion didn’t exist. What I’m saying is that, for all we know…it could’ve been made up by Paul or any of the other apostles, or just been intended as a mythological allegory. [I](This was not unheard-of in this time…You’d know that if you studied ancient Rome…)[/I] Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Such proof is amazingly absent, and much of the Jesus myth appears to have originated long after his alleged death.

Furthermore, a lot of the “Eastern” influence on the Jesus myth comes from Mithras/Mitra, whose worship was immensely popular (far more so than Christianity) when Theodosius I declared Christianity the official state religion of Rome (and started executing those who would not convert). In fact, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. wrote a couple essays on the importance of Mithraism in defining early Christianity. Google search if you want to read one, as I can’t post URLs yet.

So if you can’t even prove that “Jesus” existed…why should I even give the slightest bit of credence to the idea that he traveled to India, particularly when it is not referenced in the Christian Bible? You might as well be talking about theories of “Atlantis” or “Hyperborea” really…

Also, you could [U]try[/U] to claim that Yoga or Buddhism do not originate in Hinduism…but that would be ridiculous, as the historical record clearly says otherwise. Furthermore, many of the Christian “saints” and “martyrs” have been debunked as the medieval inventions of bored monks, or direct appropriations of local deities from various non-Christian religions.

In conclusion, if you want to believe in some fable about “Jesus” traveling to India, or Yoga sprouting fully-formed from the head of Zeus(**), or whatever you want…fine. But don’t expect it to survive the light of historical scholarship, as it does not…and don’t expect anyone else to believe it either.

P.S.: Anything that I stated above, but did not cite, was only because of haste, and the fact that I don’t have “linking privileges” at the moment. Everything I have typed can be backed up by reputable, scholarly sources, should anyone doubt anything that I have typed.

Cheers.


(*) I have an MA in History, and am currently working on a Ph.D.
(**) Yes, I’m conflating it with the myth regarding the birth of Athena, for hilarity’s sake…

My only point about India , as I said , was that Christianity is influenced by Hindu beliefs, that there were cross currents. and I don’t care about Historical Monotheism being intolerant as it pertains to today. Most Christians I know understand that God goes by many names in many cultures. I also don’t believe in the statement that polytheistic religions were tolerant of other religions. T