[QUOTE=Terence;53626]Or you could try and understand why Iyengar instructs his students to not drink water during class.[/QUOTE]
Something about cooling down the awakened prana.
[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;53625]Well, because ashtanga is such a dynamic practice, common sense dictates that water sloshing around your guts may produce regretful results.[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm.
How does taking small sips of water equate to water sloshing around one’s guts? In classes where we are encouraged to drink I’ve never felt water sloshing around my innards nor has it (thus far) prevented me from continuing my practice after taking a sip. Though, small sips have made my body feel “better” during the practice and have made me feel less dizzy at times when I was still a beginner.
That was a reply I made to 'The Scales.'
Yes I agree, it is to do with not cooling down the awakened prana.
[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;53625]Well, because ashtanga is such a dynamic practice, common sense dictates that water sloshing around your guts may produce regretful results.[/QUOTE]
I see.
[QUOTE=Terence;53626]Or you could try and understand why Iyengar instructs his students to not drink water during class.[/QUOTE]
why does he do that I wonder? instruct no water.
Cool down prana? Oh boy!
“Can anybody explain why drinking water, even in small sips, would be contraindicated during an ashtanga asana practice?”
It is safe to dismiss most of what has been said about not drinking water during practice as not of much importance. The quaility of one’s sadhana has very little to do with these outward situations, but one’s inner atmosphere. If your consciousness is absolutely rooted in the present with an uninterrupted stream of attention - then the sadhana is bound to expand in it’s possibilities. If you become thirsty during the practice, it means your body needs water, and you should drink water. In fact, if you do not drink water and continue - you may simply dehydrate and become unconscious.
Ordinarily in the yogic sciences it has always been advised to practice on an empty or quarter full stomach, or if you have eaten something, to wait at least perhaps three hours before sadhana. The reason for this is because the more active your digestive system, is the more activity it tends to trigger at the level of the mind. The digestive process requires a tremendous amount of energy on behalf of your system - the whole system becomes impacted by it. So practicing sadhana on an empty or almost empty stomach has always been seen as a useful device for the discipline. But one is just using outer situations to try and help trigger an inner process. It is not the essential phenomenon. The essential phenomenon is the inner process. So do not become too distracted by all of these outward observances, they are just skillful means. What is relevant is that when you are involved in action, you are absolutely involved in that action and nothing else - your conscious presence is essential if one is to use any of these methods as a way towards the expansion of awareness. Otherwise the discipline simply becomes mechanical, it becomes part of one’s rigid conditioning, part of one’s sleep.
This makes a little sense, but I will observe that if one cannot go an hour and a half without passing out from thirst then there is a bigger problem than dehydration. If you prepare for practice then there should not be any issues. I don’t eat for 3 hours prior. If I feel hungry during practice should I stop and have a bite? Or does it mean I am not focused on my practice? I drink water all day, but refrain at least an hour before.
Flex,
Yes you are right, it is important to enter into the practice with a certain amount of preparation so that there are as few obstacles as possible during the discipline.
[QUOTE=amz155;53630]I do understand the respecting the teacher bit and that in receommending students not to drink water, that is part of the practice they are teaching. But does this mean that I should ignore my body’s own cues to take a sip? If my body is my temple and I should respect it, who should I disrespect when I feel greatly thirsty: my own body or the teacher/practice?[/QUOTE]
Check how much water you’re drinking during the day. If you’re sufficiently hydrated, you probably wont feel the need to take sips.
As internal heat and prana is being generated during asana practice, taking water while practicing can have a detrimental effect to the digestion.
If you’re feeling badly dehydrated and/or run down during practice, then stop training and take water, small sips at first, and as the body cools down take more.
[QUOTE=Terence;53645]Check how much water you’re drinking during the day. If you’re sufficiently hydrated, you probably wont feel the need to take sips.
As internal heat and prana is being generated during asana practice, taking water while practicing can have a detrimental effect to the digestion.
If you’re feeling badly dehydrated and/or run down during practice, then stop training and take water, small sips at first, and as the body cools down take more.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I do admit to not drinking enough water on a regular basis. So, I suppose I don’t properly prepare myself for class. I should try drinking lots more during the day and see if this changes my desire for water during class.
I have been led to understand that Mr Iyengar has said that in his opinion if you getting thirsty during your practise that you are practising incorrectly , ie straining for example if you find yourself pushing the tongue into the roof of the mouth during parsvottonasana not only will your shoulders harden your head become tight , you will become thirsty , I must admit in practising in this style I never seem to get thirsty , nor do I get thirsty in mysore style ashtanga vinyasa classes so I beleive what he says.
Also I have read and heard that we are trying to stoke the yogic fires , the agni certainly the digestive fire and taking on too much water would put the fire out , we could keeep our elements in balance , the analogy given is that of making a clay pot , and the balance that goes in to that with regard to air , water , earth etc . This would seem to correalate with chinese methods ie we dont want to be too damp nor of course too fiery. Might be boloney as my American cousins say but it rings true for me.
Lastly the constant carrying around of a water bottle made of oil with some usual hiseously expensive liquid is a recent phenomena it always reminds me of bottles of milk we had when we were babies , it seems to give people some comfort , and just to be some fashion accessory and often a diversion to keeping focussed on the practise and our experience. The marketing people Im sure are loving it , who would have thought we would be buying bottled water , when the tap water is often free ?
I think as beginners we should be careful not to just give in to ‘our desires’.
Just because our habitual mind cues say " i feel i have to do drink water" or “i feel i have to scratch my nose” does not mean ‘that is the best thing for us’.
Our mind plays constant tricks, and we should use our yoga practice as an opportunity to watch the mind.
In India for thousands of years, if a teacher asked one to do certain things, or not do certain things, one simply did them. There was a trust and respect that was slowly and gradually built up with the teacher, and by ‘turning over one’s mind to some extent’ to the teacher, and simply following the guidance and instructions, one at first saw the games the mind played… and the struggle the mind outs up… but in time, one saw a taming of the mind, a strengthening of the will power, and in time the aspirant after taming the mind sufficiently then turned to the inner guru instead of an external guru.
I know that this goes completely against our Western ideas and what we hold as ‘ideals’ where each person is autonomous, independent, a free thinker… and what each person thinks for themselves is almost sacred and ‘to be respected’ such as 'my body is a temple… i know what is right for my body… my mind tells me what is right for my body… so i should follow MY feelings/mind.
Whereas in other cultures, there is an awareness that firstly the mind needs to be trained. The Ego needs to be met, and gradually tamed, so that one can recognize what is in fact a habitual thought/
/feeling/habit and then go beyond that to identify with the observer… but not get ‘led by the mind’.
There are many many things within yoga that are not understood. Many practices, guidelines etc. that have been passed down through centuries, and the real reasons or multitude of reasons have been lost.
In India the teacher did not ‘explain why’, they simply explained the techniques and the how.
In general Indian people do not have this busy western mind which constantly asked ‘but why…’
Equally well, when we ingest food or liquid and stimulate our stomachs and manipuru chakra, we are activating pingala channel.
If we are hoping to awaken sushumna channel we should be trying to balance ida and pingala as much as possible, so not over stimulating one or the other.
Many will say that this should be kept just for sitting prananyama or meditation practice… but other traditions such as Satyananda yoga advise not drinking during asana practice also.
It is also one of the ‘habitual acts’ that we do, and it is useful to be in an atmosphere where we can ‘drop’ those acts.
We won’t die by not drinking water for one hour 
I wish you well with your practice.
Best Wishes,
Dave
[QUOTE=charliedharma;53663]I have been led to understand that Mr Iyengar has said that in his opinion if you getting thirsty during your practise that you are practising incorrectly , ie straining for example if you find yourself pushing the tongue into the roof of the mouth during parsvottonasana not only will your shoulders harden your head become tight , you will become thirsty , I must admit in practising in this style I never seem to get thirsty , nor do I get thirsty in mysore style ashtanga vinyasa classes so I beleive what he says.
Also I have read and heard that we are trying to stoke the yogic fires , the agni certainly the digestive fire and taking on too much water would put the fire out , we could keeep our elements in balance , the analogy given is that of making a clay pot , and the balance that goes in to that with regard to air , water , earth etc . This would seem to correalate with chinese methods ie we dont want to be too damp nor of course too fiery. Might be boloney as my American cousins say but it rings true for me.
Lastly the constant carrying around of a water bottle made of oil with some usual hiseously expensive liquid is a recent phenomena it always reminds me of bottles of milk we had when we were babies , it seems to give people some comfort , and just to be some fashion accessory and often a diversion to keeping focussed on the practise and our experience. The marketing people Im sure are loving it , who would have thought we would be buying bottled water , when the tap water is often free ?[/QUOTE]
-I’d like to know more about thirst being a sign that I am practicing incorrectly and how to correct my error in practice.
-I think I understand what you are saying about the yogic fires and that would begin to answer my question about “why”. Just because the teacher says so it not a very helpful answer so I like to know the physiological reason too.
-I only carry a water bottle filled with tap water with me to the gym and to yoga. It doesn’t give me a sense of confort., It helps to keep me hydrated. I don’t find my bottle particularily fashionable, its functional instead.
[QUOTE=BurrenYoga;53664]I think as beginners we should be careful not to just give in to ‘our desires’.
Just because our habitual mind cues say " i feel i have to do drink water" or “i feel i have to scratch my nose” does not mean ‘that is the best thing for us’.
I know that this goes completely against our Western ideas and what we hold as ‘ideals’ where each person is autonomous, independent, a free thinker… and what each person thinks for themselves is almost sacred and ‘to be respected’ such as 'my body is a temple… i know what is right for my body… my mind tells me what is right for my body… so i should follow MY feelings/mind.
There are many many things within yoga that are not understood. Many practices, guidelines etc. that have been passed down through centuries, and the real reasons or multitude of reasons have been lost.
In India the teacher did not ‘explain why’, they simply explained the techniques and the how.
In general Indian people do not have this busy western mind which constantly asked ‘but why…’
[/QUOTE]
I’ll have to think about this a bit more. I know that what you sare saying is that way that yoga was traditionally practiced in India but I’m just not sure how I feel about it. On one hand a yoga teacher will say “listen to your body” and pull out of a pose if you feel pain but other the other hand they could say “don’t listen to your body” and don’t drink even if you feel thirst. So which one is it? Listen to your body’s cues or don’t. Struggle through the pain or thirst? Or make the practice positive?
[QUOTE=amz155;53682]-I’d like to know more about thirst being a sign that I am practicing incorrectly and how to correct my error in practice.
-I think I understand what you are saying about the yogic fires and that would begin to answer my question about “why”. Just because the teacher says so it not a very helpful answer so I like to know the physiological reason too.
-I only carry a water bottle filled with tap water with me to the gym and to yoga. It doesn’t give me a sense of confort., It helps to keep me hydrated. I don’t find my bottle particularily fashionable, its functional instead.[/QUOTE]
what more would you like to know ? I have suggested that it may be that you are over straining in asana , check your jaws your eyes your temples ,your tongue, your kidneys Study your practise , when do you get thirsty ? why is that ? I never said "because the teacher says so " although I have faith in the practise and faith in my teachers/ guru , the questions and the need to know in my brain , conceptually , why something is , does not seem to be as great as it once was , the practise works . I beleive the teacher because what they said ,and others said , is true for me , it frees up my energy for the being rather than intellectualising , if that makes sense .
Then if you dont get comfort from your water bottle , try leaving it at home , see how it feels 
Im not suggesting a water bottle is some high end fashion statement , at least not your water bottle , just that when I first started yoga there was never a bottle to be seen , now they seem to be ubiquitous in some quarters , I think they probably started arriving when yoga started being taught in gyms , but I dont know . Most teachers I have been to ask you not to bring water bottles in class and to arrive hydrated and to think about diet so we are hydrated . when they are there , they do seem to be a distraction for people , as i distractedly watch them sip from their water bottles. The tradition is old and has been tried and tested by better beings than me , nobody to my knowledge has ever died of dehydration while doing yoga asana , although with all the hot yoga it is only a matter of time (thats enough emoticons ) maybe one day it will be compulsory to drink during our practise .
If you find out more physiologically please share
yours in yoga
ps Im sure Gordon and others wrote eloquently about water and hydration in a previous thread ,
[QUOTE=amz155;53683]I’ll have to think about this a bit more. I know that what you sare saying is that way that yoga was traditionally practiced in India but I’m just not sure how I feel about it. On one hand a yoga teacher will say “listen to your body” and pull out of a pose if you feel pain but other the other hand they could say “don’t listen to your body” and don’t drink even if you feel thirst. So which one is it? Listen to your body’s cues or don’t. Struggle through the pain or thirst? Or make the practice positive?[/QUOTE]
I believe that the answer is not mutually exclusive.
Either ALWAYS listen to your body, or Don’t ever get distracted by habitual thoughts coming from your body/mind.
It is very good advice by a teacher that in order to avoid injury or strain to 'listen to your body, and if you feel pain or strain, to come out of it.
It is also very good advice to watch one’s thoughts and feelings and don’t necessarily react to them. As in, 'please do not drink water during your asana class, and keep your awareness on every single thing you can notice going on in the present, try not to get distracted by anything outside your practice, and try not to do anything that will impinge on your from the outside other than through your practice.
It is not that either of them are saying “Never listen to your body” or “Always listen to your body”
And yes i am talking about the full body of yoga knowledge which has developed over thousands of years, and am not referring to any forms of yoga who’s primary focus it to improve fitness, health, well being, feeling good… without being concerned with the deeper trans-formative of our more subtle layers that i believe the more traditional form of yoga primarily deals with.
It one is only interested in fitness, health, well being, feeling good, by all means drink water during your practice… don’t worry about you mind being distracted, don’t worry about your focus of attention, or whether you may affect the flow of prana through ida or pingala.
I guess it all depends on why each person’s feels they are practicing yoga.
And hopefully we can all learn to respect each other, and allow each other to gain whatever benefits are right for us at this moment in life.
Best Wishes,
Dave
It’s more about losing focus and breaking my rhythm. And my asana practice is one great opportunity to practice disengagement. I’m easily distracted as it is without adding sipping water between postures to the mix
But, I am also a supporter of ‘to each his own’.
PS - I do drink water between sets at the gym. I’m off to that place right now.
[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;53697]It’s more about losing focus and breaking my rhythm. And my asana practice is one great opportunity to practice disengagement. I’m easily distracted as it is without adding sipping water between postures to the mix
But, I am also a supporter of ‘to each his own’.
PS - I do drink water between sets at the gym. I’m off to that place right now.[/QUOTE]
oh nice one.
If I could give you ‘Rep’ points I would.
High FIVE!
[QUOTE=amz155;53580] “Try not to drink water during your practice. It goes against what we are trying to do here.”[/QUOTE]
That sounds like some mumbo jumbo to me. Just the vagueness of the bit about “what we are trying to do” suggests to me that the instructor doesn’t quite know what the reason is or doesn’t know well enough to replace that vague explanation with something useful and concise. Why not make it clear to students instead of leaving everyone in confusion? I don’t mean that this teacher isn’t knowledgeable and doesn’t deserve respect, but ultimately, when you do yogasanas, you are working on developing your own body awareness. To me, that says that the best thing an instructor can do is empower you by reminding you how to listen to your own body. When teachers give these confusing tidbits of information without explanation, they seem to be empowering themselves instead by leaving you in the dark, hanging on to them for more rules to follow blindly.
It makes sense that you shouldn’t drink a huge amount of water, as it would slosh around in your stomach, but I don’t see the harm in taking a sip to wet your throat. I don’t think that prana can be ‘cooled down’, although I’d love to hear what people believe that means. It’s possible that this idea is a bit mixed up with the Ayurvedic thought that the digestive fire, agni, can be ‘put out’ when a lot of cold water is thrown on it.
I just came across this little explanation: http://www.fitsugar.com/Ashtanga-Yoga-Why-Avoid-Drinking-Water-442306
The actual website is kind of icky, but the basic points are:
1- The movement creates body heat that loosens up your muscles. A lot of water would lower your body heat.
2- Frequent sips would interrupt the flow.
Finally the writer/instructor says that you should know what your body needs.
I say, taking a sip (not a gulp) once or twice will not cool down your body, and such a minor interruption would not be detrimental to your practice.