What does Aum mean?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#21

Namaste,

This symbol is a widespread symbol in Hinduism for OM. It has a religious and cultural connotation and any misuse of this symbol can be offensive for many Hindus. Mandukya Upanishad deals extensively about OM. You can find free versions online, it is very short to read. In Yoga Sutra, pranava which is a synonym for OM is mentioned, it has a specific sense related with Ishwara, cf. first chapter. One can find multiple meanings related with gods, states of consciousness, Sanskrit syllables, knowledge aso…

Here is a nice article about OM from Georg Feuerstein who is both a brilliant scholar in Yoga and a long-time practioner of dharmic yogic disciplines :
http://www.traditionalyogastudies.com/The%20Sacred%20Syllable%20OM.pdf

Philippe

#22

All we said was a fact. That AUM is a Hindu symbol and is considered a sacred mantra/sound, the sound of creation.

Oak gave misinformation that AUM is the holy ghost, amen. Sure we could have nicely have said, “Dear Oak, I believe you maybe misinformed, the actual meaning is this…” However, he deserved also to be reprimanded for giving blatant misinformation. This is why we said he was saying nonsense. Just as Sarva points out, a physicist would tell a new-ager misrepresenting quantum physics they are speaking nonsense.

Note, we said what he said was nonsense, we did not say, “You’re an idiot” We said it was nonsense because it was nonsense.

I respect your religion and the spiritual roots of yoga deeply. The debates, as such, are of no concern to me. When your heart opens, however, I am sure you will find that Brahman, the Holy Ghost, Om, the Trinity, you and I are all one and the same. This is not a fundamental religious debate. This is about universal experience and consciousness.

As I said to Amir in another thread, can you accept your mouth and your anus is the same? The argument of oneness sounds nice, but it is wrong. Your mouth and anus are not obviously not the same things. The holy ghost is not the same as Aum. The holy ghost is a member of the holy trinity, and AUM is the sound of creation or primordial vibration that emanates from Brahman.

I don’t know why people like you complicate things so much and are so obsessed in trying to prove you have a parallel concept in Christianity to a Hindu concept. You don’t. You have opposite concepts:

We have Karma, you have original sin
We have Reincarnation, you have judgement day
We have god as absolute reality, you have god as father in heaven.
We believe everything emanates from god, you believe everything is created by god
We have Yoga, you have prayer and mass
We have the Vedas, you have the bible
We have philosophy, you have faith
We have yugas, you have the world was made 6000 years ago
We have sages, you have prophets
We have planes of being, you have heaven and hell
We have ahimsa, you have chosen ones

They are completely opposite religions and it is futile looking for any kind of reconciliation. They could not be anymore opposite. We cannot bring them together anymore we can fit a square peg in a circle hole. These are pure facts and like all facts they need to be accepted.

The fact is our religions are always going to be in conflict simply because we have opposite doctrines.

#23

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;61204]…You are accusing Hindus here of being suffocated by their belief system, but actually Christians here cannot take an objective look at yoga without trying to weave their own doctrine into it.[/QUOTE]

No, actually I was not. I was and am making a generally factual statement about the human condition as it is currently manifest, period. If it fits me, then it fits me. If it fits you then it fits you. If it fits Mark then it fits Mark.

It seems a bit careless to toss around the phrase “accuse” without having some additional clarity around the offering. But that is for you to hammer out, not me.

And as a famous member of this very forum once said “yogis should not be so sensitive…” Though I vehemently disagree. Those on the path of yoga should actually become more sensitive (often called awareness) BUT not take things personally WHEN they are offered with love and kindness for the benefit of the student’s growth. To do otherwise is to merely become a doormat.

#24

Dear, Surya. You are speaking of religion when I speak of living. This need not be another debate. You do not know me. You do not know that I am Christian or Hindu or Scientologist.

My heart and science both tell me that my mouth and my anus are both made of the same stuff - carbon, water, and a host of other wonderful phenomena that have been in existence for eons. These phenomena cannot be created nor destroyed.

My mouth and my anus are both part of my same body and both touch parts of the same food matter. They both open and close and both feel pleasure and pain. In truth, both even smell sometimes. My mouth and my anus, and yours, too, are also the stuff of God and Brahman and the Holy Ghost and Aum. Since we humans created language, we have used terms to describe experience. We are simply getting caught up in the terms. It is the same experience.

Thank you for this. I have felt a strong need to reply to your comments despite my resolve to allow for the conversation to pass. This has been good practice. I have watched the urge and have even fed into it. I will watch again and see if I will allow it to pass next time. Thank you, dear teacher.

#25

Before this gets kicked over to the religious forum;

?Yoga is in religion, but religion is not in Yoga.? ~http://www.swamij.com/yoga-institutional-religion.htm

Quoted since they wrote it before I did.

#26

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;61241]Before this gets kicked over to the religious forum;

?Yoga is in religion, but religion is not in Yoga.? ~http://www.swamij.com/yoga-institutional-religion.htm

Quoted since they wrote it before I did.[/QUOTE]I try to avoid taking advice from the student of a serial rapist (Swami Rama).

#27

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;61239]No, actually I was not. I was and am making a generally factual statement about the human condition as it is currently manifest, period. If it fits me, then it fits me. If it fits you then it fits you. If it fits Mark then it fits Mark.

It seems a bit careless to toss around the phrase “accuse” without having some additional clarity around the offering. But that is for you to hammer out, not me. [/quote]A general “factual” statement aimed at no one in particular with a hint of passive aggresion. If it wasn’t aimed at the Hindu members who are trying to bring some education, you are doing a great job of being exteremely vague.

And as a famous member of this very forum once said “yogis should not be so sensitive…” Though I vehemently disagree. Those on the path of yoga should actually become more sensitive (often called awareness) BUT not take things personally WHEN they are offered with love and kindness for the benefit of the student’s growth. To do otherwise is to merely become a doormat.
What I said was “Yogis should not be so sensitive that they can’t deal with simple corrections when misinformation is being spread.” I have not said not to develop awareness, you are having a lot of fun playing with words.

#28

My heart and science both tell me that my mouth and my anus are both made of the same stuff - carbon, water, and a host of other wonderful phenomena that have been in existence for eons. These phenomena cannot be created nor destroyed.

My mouth and my anus are both part of my same body and both touch parts of the same food matter. They both open and close and both feel pleasure and pain. In truth, both even smell sometimes. My mouth and my anus, and yours, too, are also the stuff of God and Brahman and the Holy Ghost and Aum.

And yet you do not eat with your anus :wink:

Thank you for this. I have felt a strong need to reply to your comments despite my resolve to allow for the conversation to pass. This has been good practice. I have watched the urge and have even fed into it. I will watch again and see if I will allow it to pass next time. Thank you, dear teacher.

Like I said, you are doing subtle violence by being patronizing. So you trying to make yourself sound more holy/sensible/mature/spiritual because you will let the conversation pass, and me the opposite because I am not letting it pass. And yet who started this conversation, sir? :wink:

You started this. I finished it. Please do not pretend you are just some innocent passerby in this conversation.

In an ideal, nay sane world people would just accept facts and we would not have to have a conversation like this where I have to prove to AUM is a Hindu symbol. Of all people yogis who are suppose to be detached from prejudices, emotions, opinions and be acutely objective, should not have to be told AUM is a Hindu symbol and should definitely not react with violence at being told AUM is a Hindu symbol.

I really think we have hit a new low now. First it was denying Yoga was Hindu and now it is denying AUM is Hindu :eek:

#29

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;61200]Hi Mark,

it is really up to us to lead by example. The words, while well composed and to the point, cannot penetrate tightly woven belief systems. They are like a suffocating fabric.[/quote]

Dear IA,

I actually have respect for you and this comment of yours was disappointing to say the least. You claim:

No, actually I was not. I was and am making a generally factual statement about the human condition as it is currently manifest, period. If it fits me, then it fits me. If it fits you then it fits you. If it fits Mark then it fits Mark.

You clearly are not saying anything about the human condition here. You are referring to Hindus on this forum and are saying they are suffocated by their belief system. This is clear because you are endorsing and praising a comment by cydthra who is making a criticism of Hindu members.

In any case out of my long term respect for you I am willing to overlook this comment.

#30

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;61206]Edit: If somebody posted, “What is the holy trinity” and a Hindu responded, the holy trinity is Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva. A Christian would have reacted in the same way - by stating it is nonsense and then giving the correct information.[/QUOTE]
Is there really such a difference between the Holy Trinity and the Trimurti? Or is the only real difference the story and interpretation has changed a little over time thanks to the human condition.

#31

The difference between them is significant: The holy trinity is composed of the father, the son and the holy ghost. They are all three different people in one. In them Jesus Christ is the son of god and the gate keeper at the door of heaven, one must go through him to get to the kingdom of heaven.

The trimuti is the one Brahman manifest as three different functions which emanate from him: Brahma as the creator; Vishnu as the preserver and Shiva as the destroyer.

The only similarity here is that that the Hindus have a trinerian god concept and the Christians have a trinerian god concept - however they are different from each other as chalk and cheese!

#32

Holy Trinity:

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;61265]They are all three different people in one.[/QUOTE]

Trimurti:

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;61265]Three different functions which emanate from him[/QUOTE]
As I’ve read the stories, that’s all I see. Maybe I see that because I’m not attached to Christianity or Hinduism being right. I just see the incredible similarities if I look past the way the message is conveyed and instead feel the message.

As such, in my (unattached to christian or hindu beliefs) opinion, oak33 speaking in terms of the Holy Trinity and Aum is fine because he views the world through the eyes of a christian and that’s how he makes sense of the world. You speaking of Aum in hindu terms and referring to how it symbolized Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva is also fine considering your background.

The stories may be somewhat different, but I can find [B]the same feeling that is trying to be conveyed in each[/B]. When you’re not attached, it’s easier to see and both means of conveyance are beautiful.

It’s not chalk and cheese, they’re two signposts written in different languages pointing to the same destination.

edit I’ve edited the thread title to be a little more descriptive.

#33

Well, if you try to see something Hindu with the eyes of a Christian you are not going to see it. Similarly, a Hindu is not going to see something Christian with the eyes of a Hindu.
If we want to be honest with ourselves we are going to see something as it is meant to be seen, and not how we want to see it, else we are going to have misunderstandings. Unfortunately, this is what always happens in intercultural dialogue. A Christian scholar saw Kali with the eyes of a Christian and he was terrified seeing her terrible form with a necklace of dismembered heads, a bloody tongue and an assortment of weapons. He concluded with his Christian eyes that Kali was a demonic goddess. Had the Christian seen it with the eyes of a Hindu he would understand what it represents: It represents the conquest over the ego and the destruction of vice. It represents the terrible form mother nature can take on to vanquish evil.

AUM has nothing to do with the holy ghost and a basic search online would show this. However, if a comparison must be drawn to Christianity, the notion of LOGOS is similar to Aum - “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god”

#34

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;61251]Dear IA,

I actually have respect for you and this comment of yours was disappointing to say the least. You claim:

You clearly are not saying anything about the human condition here. You are referring to Hindus on this forum and are saying they are suffocated by their belief system. This is clear because you are endorsing and praising a comment by cydthra who is making a criticism of Hindu members.

In any case out of my long term respect for you I am willing to overlook this comment.[/QUOTE]

And you are entitled to your opinion and position. I have, as always, used great care in my posting, vetted my process, and posted in earnest without malice AND I don’t crave nor need validation from the community to be comfortable in my position. Only I know my intentions and my frame of reference.

#35

As such, in my (unattached to christian or hindu beliefs) opinion

It is not about attachment. If I want to look up the meaning of a medical term I look in a medical encyclopedia, not in the encyclopedia of Art History. When somebody has a question about a medical problem, he will go to the doctor, not to the art historian. It is as simple as that.

#36

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;61317]It is not about attachment. If I want to look up the meaning of a medical term I look in a medical encyclopedia, not in the encyclopedia of Art History. When somebody has a question about a medical problem, he will go to the doctor, not to the art historian. It is as simple as that.[/QUOTE]
Your analogy is a little off. If someone has a medical problem, based upon their belief systems, they will go to a western medical doctor, an ayurvedic doctor, a shaman, acupuncturist, or any other number of modalities. Some of us might see the value of each and visit various doctors for their own specialties at different times since we understand each works in slightly different ways to take us to the same ultimate goal.

Of course, the other day I went to an acupuncturist who was terrible. So don’t go to an acupuncturist, they’re ALL terrible, have no idea what they’re doing, will harm you, and there is no way in hell they can bring you to a place of health. If you speak highly of them, you’re an idiot and trying to take people away from the other true modalities where they can actually be cured. Maybe I should create a medical forum so we can all argue about the best way to heal and how it’s NADIS, not MERIDIANS.

#37

Nadis and Meridians come from the same categorical framework of dharma. These terms can be used interchangably, as can prana/chi/ki. However, if you want to be precise, then it is better to use the original Sanskrit terms as therein you will find more developed systems. It is important to remain connected to the source tradition from where these concepts originate from, else you are likely to misunderstand things.

Hinduism is the only religion where you will find spirituality developed to the level of a science.

#38

You may very well be correct. But what I know, is that even if you ARE correct, most people that follow other religions will NOT change.

I understand your frustration. I know that I am correct about humanity needing to move towards sustainability. But what I realize is that people will NOT change and give up the lifestyles they live now.

It’s hard for me to reconcile that. Do I hate the people who are unwilling to change? Do I try and force them to change? Do I go on a rampage and take out as many as I can? They’re destroying the earth. Do I sit idly by and let that happen?

In many ways, I do exactly what you do. I try and bring them awareness and try to work towards what I know is right. Because as of yet, I don’t know what else to do. Maybe that’s part of the reason you don’t bother me yet you drive others nuts. Because I feel you, braddah.

#39

Here is what will not work:

  1. Hate - There is no need to put ourselves in a negative state. It benefits nobody
  2. Violence - It will punish the wrong, but it will not make them any better.

Here is what will work:

  1. Campaigning - Through discussions and debates. Spreading the word and also through arguing against false belief systems. These approaches have been used by Emperor Ashoka to spread Buddhism and by Adisakarcharya to spread Advaita.

  2. Through example - If you become the living example of Yoga than your mere presence in the world ie enough to bring change. I do not mean by this that you simply practice Yoga, but rather you realise Yoga.

I have so far been doing 1. I am now in the process of moving to 2.

#40

From what I understand - the pranava is a name - given to the sound - which the Lord of this world (ISHVARA) uses as part of his work.

From what I understand - for the spiritual aspirant - the pranava is a very important object of study and contemplation.