Where did yoga come from?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#21

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;34409]SD- Really read what Brother Neil wrote. He never once…NOT ONE TIME did he say the Native Americans claim Aum originated with them. He said"it figures into shamanic lore". That is a far cry from how you interpreted it. Listen again…HE DID NOT SAY IT ORIGINATED WITH THE NATIVE AMERICANS. Did you hear this time.

That "New age Club " is really growing. Wow. Must be something to it.

And please play nice with your fellow Yogi’s. They all deserve it.[/QUOTE]

You are clearly blinkered:

This is what he said "http://www.aum.info/ fourth paragraph down "The sound of aum also figures into the shamanic lore of Native Americans. It is easy to recognize it in the Oglala Sioux medicine tale of “Jumping Mouse,” in which the sound is likened to a rushing river. "

So yes he did claim the AUM was present in Native American culture. The context is also obvious from the ridiculous question in the OP “Where did Yoga come from”

This is like asking where did Taichi come from.

We know where Yoga, AUM came from. It is as blatant as we know where the steam engine came from.

I have said it before as well. Yoga is our discovery. You are using our religion :smiley:

Sorry about the dilemma you are facing. You are on your way to becoming Hindu :smiley:

#22

To be honest it was inevitable this was going to happen(the world becoming Hindu) because it was the true religion(the eternal way) In the past this world had a one world religion and it spread far and wide with the Indo-Aryans, without any attempts at conversion, missionary activity or colonization. It was a peaceful Hindu take-over of the world. The Vedas declare themselves, “Make the whole world Aryan” And we did. We taught the world science, maths, culture, language, philosophy, religion.

The same is happening in the modern age. It is a peaceful take over. We are not making any attempt to convert anybody or force them to adopt our religion. It is happening by itself. It is inevitable because modern science backs everything up about our religion and people doing Yoga properly are backing up all the things we say about what happens when one does Yoga(like the “god” within) At the end of this century all of America will believe in reincarnation, self-realization, dharma and practice yoga and meditation. It is inevitable.

#23

Where are you coming up with “the world is becoming Hindu”? How did you come up with that based on our discussions?

And why are you sorry about my dilemma? What dilemma? Why do you think I’m on my way to becoming a Hindu. If being Hindu means treating others as you do, NO THANKS!

Finally, you once again missed the point of AUM. NO ONE SAID THE NATIVE AMERICANS TAKE ‘CREDIT’ FOR AUM. No one said that. Do they use it, yes they do by all accounts. They use AUM in their story of the Mouse. Next time you talk with a native american, ask them where AUM came from.

#24

Do they use it, yes they do by all accounts. They use AUM in their story of the Mouse. Next time you talk with a native american, ask them where AUM came from.

No they do not. This is absolute rubbish. They do not mention the AUM. I have looked at the original story and I have done a search on the web and found nothing. Zada. Zilch that refers to the Native Americans mentioning the AUM. The story mentions a “gushing river heard by a mouse” And you interpret that as AUM? You obviously do not know what AUM is.

Like I said in another thread do not try to make your own interpretations of very specific and technical concepts of another culture or you will most definitely misunderstand them.

#25

Dear Surya Deva, please take few deep breaths and calm down. Nothing wrong is said here and everyone is only humbly sharing their views.

[B]Your idea of world becoming Hindu because they do yoga is really strange. When Hindus in India use Christian world’s discoveries\inventions they don’t become Christians do they? Obviously not, then how does it apply to Western world doing Yoga becoming Hindus? [/B]

Please do not spread division and Hinduism teaches acceptance not division. We are all child of one God. Remember our ancient Rishis taught Vasudev kutumb kum=whole world is one family

#26

Couldn’t have said it better Raj!

#27

Namaste Raj,

Raj we are not using Christian discoveres and inventions. Modern science is secular it has nothing to do with Christianity. Yoga, on the other hand is very clearly a Hindu discovery and invention and a Hindu practice. If you are doing the practices of another religion you are practicing their religion. The other reason Yoga will turn a practictioner into a Hindu is because Yoga will reveal the truths of Hinduism(atman, shakti, prana and chakras, kundalini, siddhis, karma, reincarnation) All yogis eventually validate all the truths of Hinduism. Then you have become a full fledged Hindu.

Remember Hindusim also teaches satya and to reject asatya. In this thread a very clear attempt is being made to distance Yoga from Hinduism which is asat. So as a good Hindu should I am speaking sat. They do not like to hear this, but I don’t care what they think, because I care about what is true.

There would be no conflict between me and them if they did not engage in such open acts of cultural violence against my religion.

#28

Dear Surya,

If you are doing the practices of another religion you are practicing their religion.
I was born as a Hindu and will die as a Hindu

To my understanding Yoga is far from any organized religion. Gurus have always claimed that if you practice (Since it’s not a organized religion we never say follow or believe in Yoga, we always say practice Yoga) Yoga you become better Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, or any other religion that you follow. Moreover, you become a better person if you practice Yoga in it’s true essence. That could be the reason Patanjali didn’t mention any name of the Hindu Gods in his Yog-Sutras. He merely said Ishwara (God) which could be Shiva, Jesus, Allah…

Swami Chidananda from Sivananda order says “It is a universal science that has arisen out of the Hindu religious ground-a science that has risen above religion.” Please read the full article here http://www.dlshq.org/religions/yogachristian.htm which seems to be quoted number of times on this forum already.

No one can deny from the fact that Yoga was originated in India and Hindus have practiced it for thousands of years but please do not try to attach it with the organized hindu religion. To practice Yoga you do not have to practice any of the hindu rituals or follow or believe in Hindu God.

I also invite you to read the comments on this link http://yogaforthesoul.org/2009/05/05/testimonials/. Please visit the link and see how the participants connected themselves to Jesus. It depends whom you hold in your heart at the time of practice. One commenter beautifully quotes on the above link “This was unbelievable. I felt like I was on a spiritual high with only Jesus and me.”

#29

Dear Raj,

Thank you.

Of course I’ve said all this as well . . . so I dunno if it will take hold.

#30

existence came before the practice of yoga, so what we really are doing is existing so that must be our religion.
a small story
there was once a cat, a bird, a pig, a donkey and a walking fish. one day they went to the market together to get something to eat. once there they got some food and watched a movie, a movie about space ships and cotton candy. they became really interested in the cotton candy and wanted to get some so they left. While walking to the cotton candy store they saw another store and decided to go inside. In this store they discovered laffy taffy bought some and then ate it. after that it was getting late, and the air was cooling down. They liked this because it was hot that day. of all the animals the pig and the fish were best friends
brother neil

#31

Namaste Raj,

There is no such thing as Hinduism separate from Yoga. Hindusim is not an organized religion and does not have any clergy or monastic order, it does not have a particular founder, it does not have any particular scripture, it does not have any particular deity. This name was given to the underlying philosophy that was shared by Indian sects, religions and cults(Shaktism, Vaishavaism, Shiavism, Smartism) Although they had many outer differences in that they had different scriptures, worshipped different deities, performed different rituals, they shared the same philosophy which was tenatively called Hinduism. This philosophy is formed of the following tenets

1 Authority of the Vedas
2. The theory and practice of Yoga(Jnana, Karma, Bhakti, Raja, Kriya etc) to attain self realization by uniting with the universal consciousness
3. The doctrine of karma and reincarnation
4. The doctrine of dharma
5. The doctine of the teacher-student relationship

This is what Hinduism is. It is the universal science and philosophy you just described. Hence why we know it authentically as Santana dharma.

Yoga will not make a Muslim a better Muslim, a Christian a better Christian and a Jew a better jew. This is because all of Yoga theory and practice is fundamentally against the doctrines and beliefs of these religions. I will point these out

  1. They believe in a personal and creator god. Yoga believes god as pure consciousness within all beings and the entire universe as unreal and eternally existent.

  2. They believe this is the one and only life. Yoga believes in spiritual evolution and reincarnation

  3. They believe occultic powers are demonic and Satans work. Yoga believes that occult powers are naturally developed as a part of its practice

  4. They believe that god will punish us for our actions. Yoga believes in we are responsible for our actions and all actions are governed by the law of karma.

  5. They believe that we are bound to the body till death. Yoga believes that we are not never bound to the material body and can disassociate from our body at any time and enter into higher planes of reality.

  6. They believe in revelation. Yoga believes in ones own direct experience.

  7. They believe there is one way to salvation and that is accepting their god and their scripture. Yoga believes there are many ways to salvation and all paths can take you there.

  8. They believe there cannot be any god-incarnation, with the exception of Christianity which says Jesus was the only god-incarnate. Yoga believes avatars are numerous and always appearing on this earth. Many gurus are directly looked at as god-incarnates.

Now pray/tell how can you reconcile Yoga with these religions? You cannot. You will not become a better Muslim/Christian/Jew if you practiced Yoga you will become a Hindu.

#32

To practice Yoga you do not have to practice any of the hindu rituals or follow or believe in Hindu God.

You do not have to believe in a Hindu god? We all know who the Hindu god is it is Brahman. The infinite and all pervading and pure consciousness and ultimate reality which is what we are yoking with in Yoga. So indeed Yoga is based on the Hindu concept of god.

I have demonstrated several times on this forum already that you cannot separate Yoga from Hinduism, they are synonymous. I will repeat the reasons why you cannot separate them:

  1. Yoga is a Sanskrit(sacred Hindu language) word and it means union. It is first mentioned and described in the Vedas. The entire doctrine is based on realising Atman and through Atman, Brahman.
  2. All the classical texts of Yoga are major Hindu scruptures(Upanishads, Gita, Yoga Vasishta etc)
  3. Yoga is based on Hindu philosophy(Samkhya-Yoga) which has its roots in the Vedas
  4. Yoga is a practice which Hindu gurus teach. If you attend a preaching by a Hindu guru he will teach you Yoga.

Therefore it is clear that Yoga is Hinduism and Hinduism is Yoga.

#33

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;34432]Namaste Raj,

There is no such thing as Hinduism separate from Yoga. Hindusim is not an organized religion and does not have any clergy or monastic order, it does not have a particular founder, it does not have any particular scripture, it does not have any particular deity. This name was given to the underlying philosophy that was shared by Indian sects, religions and cults(Shaktism, Vaishavaism, Shiavism, Smartism) Although they had many outer differences in that they had different scriptures, worshipped different deities, performed different rituals, they shared the same philosophy which was tenatively called Hinduism. This philosophy is formed of the following tenets

1 Authority of the Vedas
2. The theory and practice of Yoga(Jnana, Karma, Bhakti, Raja, Kriya etc) to attain self realization by uniting with the universal consciousness
3. The doctrine of karma and reincarnation
4. The doctrine of dharma
5. The doctine of the teacher-student relationship

This is what Hinduism is. It is the universal science and philosophy you just described. Hence why we know it authentically as Santana dharma.

Yoga will not make a Muslim a better Muslim, a Christian a better Christian and a Jew a better jew. This is because all of Yoga theory and practice is fundamentally against the doctrines and beliefs of these religions. I will point these out

  1. They believe in a personal and creator god. Yoga believes god as pure consciousness within all beings and the entire universe as unreal and eternally existent.

[B]Saguna = With Qualities. I.e. the personal God. In the Various forms of: Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, the avatars, and shaktis…

Also there is a notion within your religion that the Universe comes into and out of being.

I don’t agree or not agree here. Doesn’t matter. Coming into being and out of Being is the work of the Almighty and thats His business.

[/B]

  1. They believe this is the one and only life. Yoga believes in spiritual evolution and reincarnation

[B]Hell and heaven and purgatory. Rebirth is mentioned throughout the bible. But It’s not emphasized . . . at all.
[/B]

  1. They believe occultic powers are demonic and Satans work. Yoga believes that occult powers are naturally developed as a part of its practice

[B]How so? Then that would mean Jesus and the Saints were of demonic powers doing the work of Satan. Interesting theory.
[/B]

  1. They believe that god will punish us for our actions. Yoga believes in we are responsible for our actions and all actions are governed by the law of karma.

[B]“As you sew so shall you reap.” = The Law of Karma… Thats attributed to Jesus btw…

“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” = The Law of Karma, and the Holy Dharma. All right there . . .
[/B]

  1. They believe that we are bound to the body till death. Yoga believes that we are not never bound to the material body and can disassociate from our body at any time and enter into higher planes of reality.

[B]Hmmm. Depends on the Person you ask. [/B]

  1. They believe in revelation. Yoga believes in ones own direct experience.

[B][B][I]Revelation[/I][/B] is direct experience you bonehead . . .
noun
1 a surprising and previously unknown fact, esp. one that is made known in a dramatic way : revelations about his personal life.
? the making known of something that was previously secret or unknown : the revelation of an alleged plot to assassinate the king.
? used to emphasize the surprising or remarkable quality of someone or something : seeing them play at international level was a revelation.
2 the divine or supernatural disclosure to humans of something relating to human existence or the world : an attempt to reconcile Darwinian theories with biblical revelation | a divine revelation.

You know how the Universal truths were revealed to the Rishis? Through the practice of Yoga? Through the Practice of Yoga. Say it again. Through the yoga/meditation the truth is revealed. Cultural forms put all kinds of words on this truth and make it a religion.

[/B]

  1. They believe there is one way to salvation and that is accepting their god and their scripture. Yoga believes there are many ways to salvation and all paths can take you there.

[B]Misinterpration of Scripture and meaning of Christ. [/B]

  1. They believe there cannot be any god-incarnation, with the exception of Christianity which says Jesus was the only god-incarnate. Yoga believes avatars are numerous and always appearing on this earth. Many gurus are directly looked at as god-incarnates.

[B]So what?
If they need to they use the Word . . . saint. Mmmkay? [/B]

Now pray/tell how can you reconcile Yoga with these religions? You cannot. You will not become a better Muslim/Christian/Jew if you practiced Yoga you will become a Hindu.[/QUOTE]

Uh no. Once again. Hinduism is an outer cultural form.

Its hilaraious how much is hidden in plain view. Too funny.

The Yogas and in this case diving deep into ones own being, bring up the truth.

The truth is taken by the culture and over time becomes a religion…

Your entire religion is based on Yoga, which is the means of knowing, and not the other way around. Yoga is not based on hinduism. Hinduism is based on Yoga. AS are all religions.

BONEHEAD

Can I get an Amen?

#34

Namaste

  1. No, we believe in Nirguna Brahman. Saguna Brahman is to be transcended. The ultimate reality is beyond all description.

  2. Rebirth is not mentioned in the bible at all. It mentions resurrection.

  3. They only beleive Jesus is capable of miracles because he has powers. Others doing miracles are the works of Satan.

  4. “As you sow you shall reap” and "“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” is not the law of karma or the law of dharma, you nitwit :wink:

The law of karma is a law of cause and effect, an impersonal law of the mind where all actions will produce mental impressions and become lodged in the unconscious mind as samkaras. They will manifest at different times based on various stimuli in life.

The law of dharma is the law of the scientific principles which maintain cosmic order. If you do not live in dharmically you go against the natural cosmic order and this is what produces karma. If, however you live according to dharma, you do not create karma.

As you sow so you shall reap is saying whatever you will do, you will get reward/punishment for that by the lord. And do unto others as others will do unto you is an ethical law.

They are as different as chalk and cheese.

  1. Nope Islam and Christianity are very clear that the soul and the body are combined.

  2. Nope you nitwit. Islam and Christianity are religions of the book. They are based on revelations that other people had or their word (Mohammed and Jesus) A member of that religion is only told to follow what they say to please god and go to heaven in the afterlife. Yoga says get your own spiritual experiences using techniques and get self-realization in the here now.

  3. Well that is what they believe. It maybe a misinterpretation but it is what they believe nonetheless.

  4. An avatar is not a saint. An avatar is somebody who has god-consciousness and is then equal to god. Christianity only considers Jesus the only human ever to be equal to god. Islam does not consider any human ever to be equal to god.

So the truth is Yoga will make not Christians and Muslims good Christians and Muslims, it will completely demolish every core tenet of their religion and turn them into Hindu :smiley:

#35

I found the following article in the Washington Post which really should settle this debate:

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/aseem_shukla/2010/04/nearly_twenty_million_people_in.html

Nearly 20 million people in the United States gather together routinely, fold their hands and utter the Hindu greeting of Namaste – the Divine in me bows to the same Divine in you. Then they close their eyes and focus their minds with chants of “Om,” the Hindu representation of the first and eternal vibration of creation. Arrayed in linear patterns, they stretch, bend, contort and control their respirations as a mentor calls out names of Hindu divinity linked to various postures: Natarajaasana (Lord Shiva) or Hanumanasana (Lord Hanuman) among many others. They chant their assigned “mantra of the month,” taken as they are from lines directly from the Vedas, Hinduism’s holiest scripture. Welcome to the practice of yoga in today’s western world.

Christians, Jews, Muslims, Pagans, agnostics and atheists they may be, but they partake in the spiritual heritage of a faith tradition with a vigor often unmatched by even among the two-and-a half-million Hindu Americans here. The Yoga Journal found that the industry generates more than $6 billion each year and continues on an incredible trajectory of popularity. It would seem that yoga’s mother tradition, Hinduism, would be shining in the brilliant glow of dedicated disciples seeking more from the very font of their passion.
Yet the reality is very different. Hinduism in common parlance is identified more with holy cows than Gomukhasana, the notoriously arduous twisting posture; with millions of warring gods rather than the unity of divinity of Hindu tradition–that God may manifest and be worshiped in infinite ways; as a tradition of colorful and harrowing wandering ascetics more than the spiritual inspiration of Patanjali, the second century BCE commentator and composer of the Yoga Sutras, that form the philosophical basis of Yoga practice today.
Why is yoga severed in America’s collective consciousness from Hinduism? Yoga, meditation, ayurvedic natural healing, self-realization–they are today’s syntax for New Age, Eastern, mystical, even Buddhist, but nary an appreciation of their Hindu origins. It is not surprising, then, that Hindu schoolchildren complain that Hinduism is conflated only with caste, cows, exoticism and polytheism–the salutary contributions and philosophical underpinnings lost and ignored. The severance of yoga from Hinduism disenfranchises millions of Hindu Americans from their spiritual heritage and a legacy in which they can take pride.

The Los Angeles Times last week chronicled this steady disembodying of yoga from Hinduism. “Christ is my guru. Yoga is a spiritual discipline much like prayer, meditation and fasting [and] no one religion can claim ownership,” says a vocal proponent of “Christian themed” yoga practices. Some Jews practice Torah yoga, Kabbalah yoga and aleph bet yoga, and even some Muslims are joining the act. They are appropriating the collective wisdom of millenia of yogis without a whisper of acknowledgment of yoga’s spiritual roots.
Not surprisingly, the most popular yoga journals and magazines are also in the act. Once yoga was no longer intertwined with its Hindu roots, it became up for grabs and easy to sell. These journals abundantly refer to yoga as “ancient Indian,” “Eastern” or “Sanskritic,” but seem to assiduously avoid the term “Hindu” out of fear, we can only assume, that ascribing honestly the origins of their passion would spell disaster for what has become a lucrative commercial enterprise. The American Yoga Association, on its Web site, completes this delinking of yoga from Hinduism thusly:
"The common belief that Yoga derives from Hinduism is a misconception. Yoga actually predates Hinduism by many centuries…The techniques of Yoga have been adopted by Hinduism as well as by other world religions."
So Hinduism, the religion that has no known origins or beginnings is now younger than yoga? What a ludicrous contention when the Yoga Sutras weren’t even composed until the 2nd Century BCE. These deniers seem to posit that Hinduism appropriated yoga so other religions may as well too! Hindus can only sadly shake their heads, as by this measure, soon we will read as to how karma, dharma and reincarnation–the very foundations of Hindu philosophy–are only ancient precepts that early Hindus of some era made their own.

#36

I really had to take note of the following paragraph in the article:

Why is yoga severed in America’s collective consciousness from Hinduism? Yoga, meditation, ayurvedic natural healing, self-realization–they are today’s syntax for New Age, Eastern, mystical, even Buddhist, but nary an appreciation of their Hindu origins. It is not surprising, then, that Hindu schoolchildren complain that Hinduism is conflated only with caste, cows, exoticism and polytheism–the salutary contributions and philosophical underpinnings lost and ignored. The severance of yoga from Hinduism disenfranchises millions of Hindu Americans from their spiritual heritage and a legacy in which they can take pride.

I think Hindus should really take offence at not only the Western appropriation of Yoga but the condescending portayal of our religion as just a cow worshipping, idol worshipping and caste system religion in the West, rather than what it really is, a philosophy of self-realization through the practice of Yoga.

I feel sorry for our Hindu children who are being taught such a distorted view of our religion in Western schools. This really is cultural violence and racism and it is going to basically make Hindus hate Westerners in the long run.

#37

[QUOTE=Brother Neil;34430]existence came before the practice of yoga, so what we really are doing is existing so that must be our religion.
a small story
there was once a cat, a bird, a pig, a donkey and a walking fish. one day they went to the market together to get something to eat. once there they got some food and watched a movie, a movie about space ships and cotton candy. they became really interested in the cotton candy and wanted to get some so they left. While walking to the cotton candy store they saw another store and decided to go inside. In this store they discovered laffy taffy bought some and then ate it. after that it was getting late, and the air was cooling down. They liked this because it was hot that day. of all the animals the pig and the fish were best friends
brother neil[/QUOTE]

So what is the relationship between the pig and the fish? Those are animals that we eat. I suppose we eat some birds too. Does that invalidate my theory? Maybe I missed your point. If so, what’s the point?

#38

The history of yoga is filled with mystery, and many accounts of its origin differ. But what is certain is that it has been practiced for more than 4,000 years in various forms and through various religions. The word 'yoga' itself comes from a Sanskrit word meaning 'union'. Thus, it has evolved from a form of physical exercise to become an integral part of many spiritual traditions.

The origin of yoga is not the subject of this post, but it certainly interests me. Like many people, I started practicing yoga as an alternative to medication. Back then, medical doctors were either clueless about yoga or were afraid of its effects on my health. As a result, I ended up with a balanced and spine-toned body back then instead of the usual damaged ones I saw in doctors’ offices. Over time, yoga evolved from a way to relax into a way to improve my physical health.

#39

Patañjali (Sanskrit: पतञ्जलि) was a sage in ancient India, thought to be the author of a number of Sanskrit works. The greatest of these are the Yoga Sutras , a classical yoga text.
Yoga Sutras of Patanjali (gita-society.com)