Who wants to live forever?

Spirituality
#21

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;60907]SD,

Very sorry to hear of your grandfather and I’m glad it was a peaceful death.

To be a “human” being? Nothing but energy in human form.

To live forever? We all live forever. Only the form changes. As far as my human body goes, each year the body ages. With aging of the physical form, comes wisdom and knowledge in the forever young mind. At times it is difficult to look at me at 53, still thinking like I did when I was in my 20’s, but alas, those times are getting fewer and farther between. The body is not made to live forever and is only a temporary house.

Thanks High Wolf for posing this question![/QUOTE]

Nicely said!

#22

Recently I have taken a keen interest in breathing process - anapanasati. And most of the day in a normal day, I have begun to see more clearly that we are, foremost, breathing beings. And the question emerged: Who is breathing? Apparently, my body moves through breathing, expands and contracts by breathing. In a sense, breathing shapes the gravity of body. No wonder advanced braathing practitioners must be feeling as light as a feather. By analogy, when I assumed that I am like a hollow pipe, suddenly it makes sense. Breath less frequently, and the vritti activity slows down. Breath faster than normal, then mind is encumbered with chaos.

Like most masters said, give all your attention to the breathing process without measuring how it takes place, but simply observing. I think, this observation is to [I]exist[/I], our very fabric of being. Still, it is possible that this may get boring after a while unless it leads to certain phenomenal results.

#23

High Wolf,

“No wonder advanced braathing practitioners must be feeling as light as a feather.”

That is one of the reasons why “levitation” has been spoken of by several yogis, it is simply symbolic. Because once certain life energies in the body start moving in a certain way, it can awaken a state of consciousness which feels as though one has become so light and weightless, that it is as though one is floating. The body may remain still, firm, and rigid - but inwardly one will feel as though one is ascending.

“Breath less frequently, and the vritti activity slows down.”

That is one approach, to forcefully control the breath. But if, as you had said, this body is a breathing body, then not to control the breath is far more in tune with its nature. Even upon going to sleep - the process of the breath continues without your effort. The breath, when left onto itself, has a certain advantage in that it is something flowing unceasingly from moment to moment, with or without your desire. That was the insight of Gautama Buddha - that there can be a certain advantage to allowing the breath to flow according to its natural tendencies. If your consciousness can be in tune with the natural tendencies of the breath, then just ones ordinary breathing process can become a gateway to meditation. It is not the kind of pranayam that is practiced more commonly amongst yogis, which is far more interested on using the breath to control the life energies in ones system in various different ways for purification of the nadis and chakras. And whether controlling the breath or not controlling the breath - both methods work just as well. Becomes it comes down to the same essential principle : to remain a witnessing awareness in the present.

#24

I do personally find controlling the breath is the best way to go deeper in meditation. If I just leave it to the natural breath I remain on the surface level. However, I am well aware one should not make any attempt to control the breath during meditation. But sometimes to go deeper I do need to do a few pranayama like breaths. Obviously, the deeper and prolonged the breath, the more deeper I go.

#25

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;60900]I am already an eternal being, only my body changes.

Two days ago my grandad passed away. I told my mum, aunties and nephews the same thing: he is not gone, only his body has gone. His soul no longer had use for that body anymore which at 83 years of life had become tired and worn out, diseased and not working properly. So he peacefully left his body - slowly closed his eyes at home and passed away. Now he will be in the spirit plane for a while, he has already visited my mother in her dreams yesterday and he said, “Why is everybody so miserable, I am ok, nothing has happened to me. I am still here” and then incarnate in another body to continue from where he left off in a fresh body suited to his needs.[/QUOTE]

Your view on the subject inspires me.

My first and only experience dealing with loss was a pet cat here at home last year, it was the first time me and my family looked at death through the light of vedic knowledge.

Some may find silly, but a loss is a loss independent of what the object of attachment is.

Then I had to deal with a circumstance I thought I was passing away myself, thankfully all I could think about was Ganesha at that moment (guess I’m not that unprepared to leave this body :)), it ended up being only a premonition of a very bad happening with a friend of mine that disturbed severely my anahata chakra.

#26

[QUOTE=High Wolf;61133]Recently I have taken a keen interest in breathing process - anapanasati. And most of the day in a normal day, I have begun to see more clearly that we are, foremost, breathing beings. And the question emerged: Who is breathing? Apparently, my body moves through breathing, expands and contracts by breathing. In a sense, breathing shapes the gravity of body. No wonder advanced braathing practitioners must be feeling as light as a feather. By analogy, when I assumed that I am like a hollow pipe, suddenly it makes sense. Breath less frequently, and the vritti activity slows down. Breath faster than normal, then mind is encumbered with chaos.

Like most masters said, give all your attention to the breathing process without measuring how it takes place, but simply observing. I think, this observation is to [I]exist[/I], our very fabric of being. Still, it is possible that this may get boring after a while unless it leads to certain phenomenal results.[/QUOTE]

Dear friend:

With Grace of Almighty, it will lead to phenomenal inner experiences. Most importantly, the question “who is breathing” stands to get answered through the practice of setting aside the awareness of body by [B]relaxing the body to the maximum[/B] and then simply being with or following the [B]automatic[/B] movement of air entering or leaving the body or remaining still [B]“of its own.”[/B]

[B]This automatic or “of its own” movement of air is verily the movement of Prana, the Divine Life Force.[/B]

About this practice getting boring, I agree from my own experience. The mind, being under the influence of ego, has a strong tendency to remain active. However, after keeping at it consistently, results do appear.

let us remember the story of the spider.

regards, anand

#27

@AMIR
’not to control the breath is far more in tune with its nature. Even upon going to sleep - the process of the breath continues without your effort. The breath, when left onto itself, has a certain advantage in that it is something flowing unceasingly from moment to moment, with or without your desire. That was the insight of Gautama Buddha - that there can be a certain advantage to allowing the breath to flow according to its natural tendencies. ’

Even caveman had been breathing naturally … from moment to moment…
if this was to be to become Buddha, than patanjali would not have to trouble himself

one has to train his breath to become trained natural breath over time.

#28

prasad,

“Even caveman had been breathing naturally … from moment to moment…
if this was to be to become Buddha, than patanjali would not have to trouble himself”

It seems you have not even understood a single word that has been said. When reading such messages, you should invest absolute attention rather than just reading them like a mechanical robot.

You have forgotten the second part of the sentence : . "If your consciousness can be in tune with the natural tendencies of the breath, then just ones ordinary breathing process can become a gateway to meditation. "

What is relevant is not whether you are controlling or not controlling the breath, what is relevant is that whether you are controlling or not controlling the breath, your attention and awareness is absolutely involved in it. No, a caveman is not capable of investing his attention in such a way.

“one has to train his breath to become trained natural breath over time”

It has nothing whatsoever to do with training the breath, but in sharpening your attention. And that can be done with the natural tendencies of the breath, through controlling the breath, through controlling the mind, through not controlling the mind and being mindful from moment to moment, through a mantra, through a yantra, through concentration upon a chakra center, there are a thousand and one different means. But it all comes down to the same essential principle : awareness, to remain a witness from moment to moment. If you insist that the only method of entering into deeper states of awareness is through pranayam, then you are simply repeating what you have considered traditional rather than functioning out of your own intelligence.

#29

@amir,

‘through not controlling the mind and being mindful from moment to moment,’

When a hypnotist moves the pendulum, one is not supposed to control the mind and be mindful of the movement from moment to moment, but alas be goes in trance and not the deepest of awareness but remains under control of the hypnotist.
Your idea of remaining in moment to moment reminds me of Zeno’s paradox.

only Training my dear will enable you to beat him. lots of MINDFUL training.
training of mind, or better still training the breath will train the mind.
And i dont reinvent the wheel. Its better to be orthodox and apply the methods which are time tested by masters.

#30

@amir
’If you insist that the only method of entering into deeper states of awareness is through pranayam, then you are simply repeating what you have considered traditional rather than functioning out of your own intelligence.’

some wise philosopher in this forums has said that he digs only one well deep enough to fetch water rather than many, I for one will not dig any well of my own but use the well dug by great ones whose water has been tested and certified.

#31

prasad,

“I for one will not dig any well of my own but use the well dug by great ones whose water has been tested and certified.”

Considering the yogic sciences, which has exhausted almost all of the possibilities in the expansion of consciousness, there is nothing which is “certified” as absolute. There are only relative skillful means and strategies leading towards the same space. If you consider “pranayam” as a method to enter into deeper states of awareness which has been “tested” and “certified”, I want you to know that just the opposite has been “tested” and “certified”. In fact - long before Gautama Buddha was speaking of something like Anapanasati (mindfulness of breathing), in which you do not control the breath, it has been used in the yogic sciences for centuries. But the fact is that as long as you are dependent upon traditions rather than functioning out of your own intelligence, even through countless eternities of practice, never will you come to your awakening. If you are a sincere seeker of Truth - then nothing, absolutely nothing, should be accepted without question. One will have to investigate for oneself and find out what is right and wrong for you. Until the spirit of inquiry has been set aflame in you - you cannot call yourself a seeker of Truth, much less a disciple.

#32

@amir,

?Considering the yogic sciences, which has exhausted almost all of the possibilities?

Yes Hindus have. In the west they are still exploring newer possibilities like Hot yoga, dream yoga,…

? in the expansion of consciousness, there is nothing which is “certified” as absolute?

I for one don?t even understand consciousness per say leave aside expanding it.

.? There are only relative skilful means and strategies leading towards the same space.?

I agree, but one has to wear shoes which fit.

?If you consider “pranayam” as a method to enter into deeper states of awareness?

For me it is not to enter deeper state of awareness but to a state of no mind. Awareness to me implies the state or ability to perceive, to feel, or to be conscious of events, objects or sensory patterns. I do not want all that, leave aside expanding it…I want to be in the state where there is no awareness, not even of self, a state of pure bliss.

? But the fact is that as long as you are dependent upon traditions rather than functioning out of your own intelligence, even through countless eternities of practice, never will you come to your awakening. If you are a sincere seeker of Truth - then nothing, absolutely nothing, should be accepted without question.?

Amir, man has been questing since eternity and still doing it. I for one will not start inventing the wheel again. People like buddha, sankara, Vyas, kapila, machandra, goraksh nath et al have carved different wheels. I will rather use one of them

#33

prasad,

Yes Hindus have. In the west they are still exploring newer possibilities like Hot yoga

Even that perhaps is not new, in India all that would have been needed is to practice outdoors in the hot summer. Dream Yoga is not something unique either - in yoga there is a branch of what is called nidra yoga which deals with maintaining awareness in dream states. In Tibet - it is known as Dream Yoga.

I do not want all that, leave aside expanding it..I want to be in the state where there is no awareness, not even of self, a state of pure bliss

If your awareness absolutely disappears in such a state - how would you know that it is pure bliss?

People like buddha, sankara, Vyas, kapila, machandra, goraksh nath et al have carved different wheels. I will rather use one of them

Yes, and it is also the case that people like Buddha and Shankara were teaching people according to what was needed, they were absolutely contemporary for their time. But the fact is that wisdom is something which can adapt itself according to the changes that arise in the world and in man himself, it is not something which is fixed and static. That is why, for example, Tantra had declared itself a teaching which is for the man of the Kali yuga, the so called dark age of Kali - and the methods of Tantra which were developed by the tantric masters were created according to the needs of the people of their time.

#34

amir,

?Yes, and it is also the case that people like Buddha and Shankara were teaching people according to what was needed, they were absolutely contemporary for their time.?

yes different methods for different disciples, but the philosophy was for all of that time and time to come, their teachings are still relevant.

?But the fact is that wisdom is something which can adapt itself according to the changes that arise in the world and in man himself, it is not something which is fixed and static.?

Knowledge gets changed over time, wisdom is not dependent on knowledge

#35

their teachings are still relevant.

They are still relevant, but what is compatible with a particular individual is an entirely different matter.

wisdom is not dependent on knowledge

As far as coming to know of how to apply oneself in the ordinary world, wisdom is needed. What you have said is right, wisdom is not dependent upon knowledge, but it also has nothing whatsoever to do with knowledge. Because wisdom is not a matter of the object of wisdom, it is a certain inner quality. And depending on the situation, you will have to adapt yourself according to the circumstances and respond spontaneously in the moment. Life is in such a state of flux, unceasingly changing, that if one were to live it according to any fixed pattern, then it would be like trying to walk in friction against the current.

#36

knowledge makes things bigger and more complex, wisdom simplifies it.
shedding unwanted knowledge is also wisdom.

#37

Ego wants to live forever.

#38

[QUOTE=lascar;62519]Ego wants to live forever.[/QUOTE]

I confirm regarding my ego.

#39

I am a human being. It feels good to be a human being. It is the only thing what makes sense for me to be.

Do I want to live forever ? I do.

I have this willow at the entrance of my home. One day, all it’s branches were cut off. Only a sad, solitary trunk remained. Being used to it’s beautiful shape, the green living canopy, when I first saw her in her new state, I was shocked, and felt sudden pain in my soul. I watched this exclamation mark for months, during the winter. I mourned her without tears. I grew accustomed to her new appereance, but always a bit sad. Unknown to me, hidden life was waiting inside that tortured form. And in spring, the first green buds appeared. When I saw them, a new hope raise in me, and I knew that life is eternal. Life does not belong to this world, she sends only her waves. Shapes change, become manifest, than withdraw.

But I know the limits of my consciousness. It still lacks the ability to maintain itself during the night. Surely I lack the ability to extend it beyond the gate of death or that of my birth. Than who am I ? Am I confined to space and time ? That willow lives in me. My ancestors life beats in me. But am I that beat ? I am not. That’s only the support what makes my self experience possible. I long for being anchored in something more durable. Isn’t this very longing, this feeling of missing ceirtainty, proof that I posess the knowledge of my real home ? How can we long for something we don’t know ? We cannot. I know deep down, that at least I have known myself and everything, once, sometimes, somewhere over the rainbow. And if this is so, it must have been beyond my present consciusness first appeared. Is that lost forever ? Not at all, for I am sure it did happen, if only by the power of this reasoning. Playing Sherlock Holmes where the suspect is me. It’s actually interesting, don’t you think ? This treasure is surely burried deep, but nevertheless, it is there ! And I am going to find it.

#40

[QUOTE=prasad;61812]
some wise philosopher in this forums has said that he digs only one well deep enough to fetch water rather than many, I for one will not dig any well of my own but use the well dug by great ones whose water has been tested and certified.[/QUOTE]

But they only dug hose to show you that it is possible to dig your own. So far, you only watched their work, but you still have not reached the water. If it was that easy to draw water from other’s well directly … But it isn’t because these other wells are not real wells but only their images, and their water cannot quench real thirst. But the one you will dig following their model, will just do that.