[QUOTE=Horizons;56092]When you say the spiritual impact is minimal - what impact would you say it gives you i.e. except for being a good prep for sitting, what do you believe it gives back as a stand alone practice?[/QUOTE]
clarity of body is one.
Not sure what you mean by ‘clarity of body?’
Thanks for sharing, charlie. Do you think the asanas in particular helped you to let go of these patterns?
Yes they helped for sure , helping with emotional holding patterns for instance , letting go helps with letting go in the mind , letting go in the mind helps letting go in the body. Asana helped me to feel comfortable in my skin , and feel positive and light , and so did meditation .
Greetings Horizons,
Welcome to the forum, it’s a sincere pleasure to have you here.
I have seen new practitioners to yoga be presented with opportunity after opportunity to face emotional duress from the past and properly integrate it. I’ve also met practitioners who have been practicing for years who I don’t know ever faced any of their internal demons. I feel that intention plays an enormous role here. If you’re intent on going inside and having tea with some of the dark areas within, then the universe is going to give you an opportunity to have that dialogue. I also feel that the practice of yoga gives us an opportunity to develop the tool set necessary to be able to sit at that table with that demon and have the dialogue necessary to integrate it. The first time I was presented with such an opportunity I freaked out. I’m usually able to sit with it now.
On a physical level, I feel very strongly that emotions from the past are stored in our body due to the “What fires together wires together” theory of neuroscience. Just as smells may trigger a memory from the past because we smelled something similar at that time (the smell and memory fired together so they wired together) then deep chronic tension in our body is also wired with many past traumas. When we experience a traumatic event we tense deeply preparing for fight or flight and if we don’t properly integrate that trauma, we hold onto that deep chronic tension. As such, asana, pranayama, and meditation that allows us to access this deep tension can often evoke traumatic experiences from the past giving us the opportunity to rewire ourselves. Instead of that memory being connected to a neural network associated with fear, anger, depression, or whatever, we’re presented with the opportunity to connect it to something else on a neural and emotional level and release that deep tension on the physical level.
Hi. I’ve had some similar issues and I can share based on my own experience. Your situation may be different in any number of ways of course.
A regular asana practice has made me feel calmer and happier, less anxious/stressed/worried about things. I don’t feel that it has “healed” or “released” specific issues, but on the whole my quality of life has increased dramatically, I think due to an asana practice. Since I don’t have much of a meditation practice (yes perhaps I should), in my case I can link my feeling of well-being more clearly to asana than someone who is doing both asana and meditation, if that makes sense.
I don’t know about holding emotions in the body - it could be true - but I can say that some of my issues were very connected to my body. So just spending time doing something I enjoy and feeling good physically is a big difference for me. Perhaps if someone has emotional issues that are less related to the physical body this would be less the case.
Sometimes part of the issues I have is related to my reactions. If I feel good, I am less likely to react in a negative way. A few months ago I became really interested in reading more about the issues I’ve experienced - even though they were at their height maybe 10 years ago - and it’s possible these were due to my practice. I think that reading about these issues also helped me. Hard to know for sure what makes us do what we do and feel the way we do.
I practice because I enjoy it and feel good. If you’ve experienced emotional abuse, you may feel that you don’t deserve to feel good, but of course you do - and personally I think that if you’ve had trauma in your life or lived in unhappy circumstances, just having some of your time taken up by something you enjoy is positive.
All that said, if I had come to asana with a very specific idea in mind of how it could or would help me, I probably would have been disappointed. But I do feel it has helped in some way.
Hard to argue that the body and mind are not intricately connected, therefore it makes sense one influences the other. Therefore unknotting the body should help unknot the mind, balancing the body should help balance the mind, so on and so forth. A healthy mind and body ought to create a wonderful platform for the spirit to develop. Yoga may be key in your attempt at healing, like charliedharma my experience has been one positive leading to another. You have acknowledged a problem, admitted asana helped ease some suffering, it makes sense to explore all limbs of yoga, not?
“My question is however, with a practice as described above, is it really possible to heal and release deep traumas such as I have described through a consistent practice of yoga asanas?“
No. You have misunderstood the function of those asanas. They are not intended for anything else except to prepare ones mind and body for the work of meditation. Problems which arise at the level of the mind can only be dissolved at the level of the mind. You can practice these asanas for ages, by themselves it is not going to be of any help as far as understanding your own inner workings are concerned. For that, what is needed is to deal with the mind directly, to observe the workings of your mind.
“As the practice deepens, does one generally come into contact with deeper and deeper aspects“
Forget about any deeper aspects entirely - whatever has not entered in ones own experience has no relevance at all. Just come to an understanding from the very seat in which one is sitting, and then the next step will reveal itself.
“Particularly how I feel after the Birkam.“
It is good that you feel good after it, but coming to more awareness of oneself has very little to do with feeling good. The fact is that what you enjoy from the practice of Bikram yoga is just a temporary fix, you become under the influence of the drug but once its effects have subsided, and it does very quickly, you return back to your ordinary patterns. Something like the so called Bikram yoga may be useful for this, but as far as having insight into the root causes of ones suffering at the level of the mind - it is almost useless. Because Bikram yoga has no place at all for meditation.
“Does anybody have any further recommendations on the best course of action for me? I also meditate daily“
Go deeper into your meditation with more discipline and commitment.
“Also, I know that the asanas are an incomplete method in themselves in transforming consciousness“
No, they are not an incomplete method for transformation, because they are not methods for transformation.
“the effect that the postures have on the subtle body / chakras and the release of emotional blocks, must surely facilitate some vertical growth in consciousness as a stand alone practice“
As a stand alone practice, it is nothing more than exercise. But you do not have to believe me. In fact, I encourage you to go deeper into your asana practice, if there is anything more to it as a stand-alone practice, it will become revealed.
Yes, it can bring about certain changes in the subtle energies of ones system. Just going for a run will do that. Just something as simple as putting your hand in a fist will do that. It is important to understand that as a stand alone practice, it cannot do anything else except create a foundation. And a foundation which is standing by itself is a useless foundation. Because you can detoxify the nadis out of the practice, and yet on the other hand do all kinds of things to fill them with toxins and blockages again. If one wants results from these methods, this is not the kind of thing which you do as a side-project. One will have to change the whole way of ones life so that everything becomes supportive for the practice. If you are doing something like practicing on one hand, and yet smoking, drinking alcohol, eating foods or drinking drinks which are filled with all kinds of impurities, being dishonest both to yourself and others, hypocritical, then certainly any effects that had been done will quickly become undone.
I’m going to take a slightly different course in reply with no disrespect to the fine answers preceding me.
The genesis of transformation can come from many quarters. We all hope to leave our daily practice, be it at home or in class, a bit different than when we entered. This is the same reason people go to a gym or fitness center. No one wants to come out the exact person they were when they went in. And while that change may not be a ripple in the cosmos it is, in fact, transformation. So I would not take as hard a line as Amir, though his points are “correct” and “true” and “accurate”, as is his direction.
When one is dealing with old patterns or “deep seated emotional problems” one is really asking about the nature of samskara and their dissolution. It would be difficult in a unicellular asana practice to break up those patterns. And it is for this reason that many who practice in the style mentioned are still stuck 8-10 years after beginning their practice - however they are lean and externally “fit” and perhaps hydrated and less toxic, though that has not been my experience.
It is incredibly obvious to anyone who wants to look into yoga that the larger work is through meditation. And while dogmatic, it can be uttered that no yoga is possible without it. If one is not bringing light into the cells, if one is not making a connection to the heart center, if one is not releasing the mental force down while drawing the vital force up, big picture transformation is a tough go.
So my short answer to whether a continued asana-only practice will heal deep emotional stuff is “not particularly likely, though anything is possible”.
Hey Gordon, are you suggesting the type of asana practice you do influence the other 7 limbs of your yoga practice, if so please elaborate, thanks.
That is a very good question Ray.
If I may be so bold I’d like to answer with a question
Are you hinting that the type of asana practice does NOT influence the other seven limbs outlined by Patanjali?
Do ANY sort of asana practice and Pranayama is “the same”?
Do Any sort of asana practice and concentration is the same?
Have you seen an asana practitioner with NO sense of yama and niyama in their living? And have you seen an asana practitioner with deep commitment to yama and niyama in their living?
Surely Ray each of the limbs and their nature bears directly on the others, no?
I believe it can. I didn’t know much about yoga, had done some here or there over the years. I recently joined a yoga place and have been doing hot yoga, not bikram, at about 85-90 degrees. The first reaction I got was anger and RAGE coming up out of me. I didn’t understand what was going on, I wasn’t sure why this was happening to me. I thought, that’s strange. The next reaction I got was to start remembering old abuse memories that started surfacing. I linked it because I would go to yoga, then either that day or the next one of these things happened. I didn’t have intention for this, I’m not even sure I like it, but I know I need it. So I keep going and it is a BUMPY ride.
It’s interesting to see some of the different opinions among people who mention having experiences similar to the original poster and people who don’t mention that.
I’m clearly not the one to speak on a meditation practice, and I can understand that coming from the perspective of yoga (as of course the majority of people on this forum will), asana may be minor compared to the other limbs. I think however from a perspective that many different things, including but not limited to yoga, can influence individuals’ development - asana can matter.
Think of all the people who have experienced abuse and have never had an asana class. And people who have experienced abuse and go to gyms or run, but have never been to a yoga class - I think an asana practice can offer quite a bit towards healing that these other things cannot.
All the best to the OP.
Thanks for the response Gordon, I wasn?t hinting anything, I began TM in the early 70?s, dabbled in Buddhism in the 80?s, added yoga asana in the 90?s and have found myself backing into Patanjail?s yoga since. The more I research and expose myself to the science of yoga the more its sagacity penetrates my core. TM had decent techniques for mediation; I struggled with the mysticism in Buddhism, the Ashtanga Vynasa asana practice fixed me physically and gave me a comforting sense of well being. Guess I was figuring that a mindful asana practice that fits the individual was adequate for the asana limb. I view the limbs as a system and have not tried to individually breaking them apart weighting one above the other, so yes their interconnectivity influencing the outcome.
Mostly what I see are upper middle class white married women jumping out of Mercedes, BMW?s and SUV?s dressed in the latest yoga ware doing magnificent calisthenics. I?m glad they come to asana class and that my snippets into other aspects of yoga interest them. Other parts of the week I practice with many well intended yoga asana practitioners who meditate and instinctively add much of the Patanjli to their ethical lives. Occasionally I cross paths with well educated, deeply cerebral types dedicated to uncovering truth, they continually have remarkable responses to my questions warranting careful consideration. Yoga seems to be the art of life; something to be studied, practiced, understood and definitely felt. Just in case, I?m reading between the lines here, I?m not here to set anybody up I?m sincerely curious.
Thanks for all the amazing replies.
AmirMourad-
It seems that you are just speaking in terms of the DIRECT ‘spiritual transformation’ aspect of the practice? When you say for example that asana is ‘nothing more than exercise,’ would you not agree that an asana practice would aid in mental / emotional well being and the potential to release trapped emotions in the body more than some kind of ‘standard’ physical exercise like going for a run, can? And in the way it specifically works on stimulation of the chakras, this would lead to actualization of more energetic potential in the practitioner?
So, really, it is a good way of actualizing our potential, well being, mental / emotional health at our CURRENT level of development (horizontal growth for those familiar with Wilber’s maps) and allows us to navigate our selves more successfully at this level; in a more effective way just ‘standard’ exercise can. But does not lead to an increase in spiritual realization (vertical growth).
Would you agree?
And here we come to another aspect of the foundation asana may build as well as it being a direct aid in meditation. Becoming more ‘whole’ at our current level of development - mentally, emotionally, energetically - allows us to more easily move ‘up the ladder.’
For the record, I’m not really too keen on this way of looking at things as I have above, though it is certainly valid and true. I believe anything that increases our sense of well being and brings us back into contact with our true self is ‘spiritual development.’ So in this sense, under my definition I would count asana as a method of spiritual development. Particularly its effect of emotional regulation and the sense of vitality it cultivates. But this is just a question of definition.
I think the general idea which I have taken from the above answers is that in itself, it is probably not a ‘complete’ method in emotional healing but it does have potential to release emotional baggage and could therefore be an important ASPECT of my healing. Of course, the feelings of well being, embodiment, grounding and vitality are a great side effect even if temporary 
Horizons.
“When you say for example that asana is ‘nothing more than exercise,’”
I have not said that the asanas are nothing more than exercise. I have said that, limited to themselves, they are nothing more than just a series of exercises. When asanas are used in combination with other techniques, then they are of tremendous assistence in the transition into meditation.
“would you not agree that an asana practice would aid in mental / emotional well being and the potential to release trapped emotions in the body more than some kind of ‘standard’ physical exercise like going for a run, can?”
Not necessarily. Because what one derives out of the practice is not just a matter of what you are doing with the physical body. Unless there is a certain stream of awareness that is flowing throughout the practice, then these asanas are just mechanical. One is functioning just like a robot, or a program which is just running it’s usual course. And one can continues practicing the methods of yoga in this way for ages, it is not going to be of much help. But if you are using these methods as a way to integrate your awareness - then it is a totally different matter. That can be done anywhere. Even a single moment of naturalness far surpasses infinite mechanical training. So if you are going for a run, but you are doing it with absolute involvement in the present, with a certain fire of attention - then it may be far more useful for one’s expansion than doing asanas.
“And here we come to another aspect of the foundation asana may build as well as it being a direct aid in meditation.”
I would like to make it clear as to the origins of what one is calling “asana”. In it’s origins, it has nothing at all to do with these hundreds upon hundreds of postures which one may ordinarily be familiar with. It simply means “seat”, and it referred to the seat in which the yogi would be sitting for meditation. It involved nothing else, just sitting in a posture - either the lotus, or the half lotus, or siddhasana, and other such sitting postures. It was only much later that it was seen that perhaps there are other ways of controlling the body which may assist in meditation. So over time, it was discovered that different postures of the body create different changes in the way the subtle energies travel through the body which have different effects on the mind. But even in this expanded form - it’s focus was still the same, to create something for the discipline which will make his transition into meditation something which is less of a struggle, and more friendly, fluid, and relaxed.
“I believe anything that increases our sense of well being and brings us back into contact with our true self is 'spiritual development.”
For this, what is needed is to be capable of seeing beyond the likes and dislikes of the mind. Naturally, that which is pleasant and which you like is certain to be interpreted as assisting you towards your well being. But what one likes may be a hindrance for one’s expansion, and what one dislikes may be a stepping stone. But because you are prejudiced, one will not be able to discriminate between the two. So there is a great difference between what one thinks may be useful for one’s expansion, and the reality itself. That is why if one is interested in the work of the expansion of consciousness towards one’s awakening, then tremendous inquiry is needed. Without this inquiry, one cannot be called a seeker. To inquire means to investigate into oneself with a scientific attitude and come to a way of seeing things as they are, unclouded, without dust in one’s eyes.
“So in this sense, under my definition I would count asana as a method of spiritual development.”
It is just a tool, like any tool it can be used in a thousand and one ways. The tool is important in a certain way, but it’s effectiveness and the outcome of it’s use has more to do with the kind of hands which are using them. If it’s effectiveness lies in the tool itself - then by now every single person who has ever practiced an asana or sat for meditation would have become already come to their liberation. This matter should be crystal clear - that one should not be too attached to the methods themselves. They need to be impregnated with a certain spirit. In Zen, it is called “no-mind”. No-mind is not an absence of mind, it just means a mind which can function without attachment, free of the clinging activity of the mind. Once the clinging activity of the mind is out of the equation - then a certain alchemy happens - what was once mechanical has now become as spontaneous as a flash of lightning.
These methods, without one’s inner awareness, they are just mechanical. If you could train dogs and cats to do them, they would do them perfectly well.
The other day I was in a heated yoga class and about 10 minutes in, some rather powerful emotions began to surface and the battle begun. My mind tried many of its tricks in an effort to get me to leave that hot, uncomfortable classroom.
“You’re having a heart attack.” - Check
"You can’t breathe." - Check
"You’re going to die." - Check
… and more.
It was wrong. And the battle was won when I laid down for that final savasana having spent the entire 90 minutes in the class.
Each of those were remnants of “deep seated emotional problems.” I was able to integrate them during that final savasana. Why hold onto thoughts that are proven wrong?
Thanks asana
“You’re having a heart attack.” - Check
"You can’t breathe." - Check
"You’re going to die." - Check
… and more.
This has happened to me too, I didnt know it was normal. that makes me feel a lot better. Sometimes I feel almost angry at my body and the class leader and it seems to be so irrational. My mind thinks things like
"Why are they pushing so hard"
“You are a fraud, you dont belong here”
“You will collapse if you continue”
anxiety builds and none of the thoughts are based in reality, its almost like pure paranoia. Then by the end of the classes I just want to hug everyone and I feel so happy, relieved and fulfilled. This practice is so different from anything I have ever come into contact with. What a long strange trip it will be…
Let us see what the classics say about asanas:
Asanas are not just physical exercises; they have biochemical, psycho-physiological and
psycho-spiritual effects. The cells of the body have their own intelligence and memory.
Through practice of different asanas blood circulation is improved , the hormone system
is balanced, the nervous system is stimulated,and toxins are eliminated, so that the cells , sinews and nerves are kept at their peak level. Physical, mental, and spiritual health are attained.
Hatha Yoga Pradipika
Svatmaratma
http://www.yoga-age.com/pradipika/part1.html
Just go to the paragraph with the title “Asanas.”
What a fabulous thread. Thank you Horizons.
Asana practice may not heal deep-rooted trauma on it’s own, but it does set a solid foundation to start. It is exercise - yes, but much more than that. Like any exercise, asana works the body which in turn calms the mind. But, asana also gives me the chance to deepen my breath, focus my mind, and disengage by living briefly in that “middle space”. By doing this, asana prepares me to deal with and accept trauma as it arises.
As some have already posted, trauma remains with our selves, probably forever, and the echoes come back. David’s analogy to smell and memory is a great one. Most of my pain or suffering is due mainly to reliving trauma through a trigger event, or anticipating an event based on past events. Asana practice develops the discipline to bring me back to the here and now. Meditation (I am at the kindergarten level there, so hardly qualified to impart real knowledge) intensifies the here and now.
So, in short, asana practice provides a solid foundation in which to begin healing.
What wonderful responses. I tend to think that we all have something we want to overcome, whether we define it is as traumatic or not. I know I’m one of those. For me, Ashtanga yoga in combination with meditation helps tremendously. I say if you feel like it’s helping, don’t stop. It will only get better.