'Yoga is nothing but a practical Psychology'

Spirituality
#116

NOW that the commercial break has ended
We return you to your scheduled programming :stuck_out_tongue:

SO.
When you say yoga is nothing but practical psychology, do you mean a form of psychology ? Western psychology? psychology as taught under a certain author?

I do believe. That indeed, yoga is practical psychology.
I also believe. To be true, that yoga is practical physiology.
Though i do think. That most forms of psychology and physiology are incomplete.
For each tries to be autonomous, and disregards the other.

This may not be true in all circumstances. But if the current world " truly understood"psychology for instances, their wouldn’t be so many documents on it!

Whatcha think.

#117

Your knowledge of Samkhya-Yoga is amateur, it is not based on actual reading of the scholarship and literature on the subject.

Do you think that I absorbed it from thin air? I’ve read both primary and secondary sources, so this is obviously a false statement.

Getting a grade on a college paper is not peer review. This is one more example of how Surya Deva has been trying to get credibility by inflating his qualifications. Actually it disqualifies him because it is evidence of dishonesty.

Even if you did get a good grade on a college paper, it doesn’t count for much beyond getting your first job. What have you done since then? Posting anonymously on Yoga Forums is hardly a mark of distinction.

Actually this is true, I hadn’t read Larson’s book until recently, but he is hardly the foremost scholar. The book added very little to my understanding of the philosophy. It’s main contribution is a classification system for historical development, and a summary of other scholars who have written on the subject. I’ve read other similar works that were much more in depth and made far greater contributions to the understanding of the philosophy. Larson’s book is essentially a study of the Samkhya Karika

Many of the statements you have made about Samkhya-Yoga contain obviously gaps in understanding

Since you refuse to acknowledge the Samkhya Pravachana Sutram, which is the most complete explanation of Samkhya philosophy ever written, and instead rely on a seventy verse summary and academics like Gerald Larson, its obvious that the gaps in understanding are yours.

This is simply a malevolent remark without any basis in fact and a personal attack.

#118

I think that probably has something to do with why you are so wrong about so many things.

#119

[QUOTE=Avatar186;75605]NOW that the commercial break has ended
We return you to your scheduled programming :stuck_out_tongue:

SO.
When you say yoga is nothing but practical psychology, do you mean a form of psychology ? Western psychology? psychology as taught under a certain author?

I do believe. That indeed, yoga is practical psychology.
I also believe. To be true, that yoga is practical physiology.
Though i do think. That most forms of psychology and physiology are incomplete.
For each tries to be autonomous, and disregards the other.

This may not be true in all circumstances. But if the current world " truly understood"psychology for instances, their wouldn’t be so many documents on it!

Whatcha think.[/QUOTE]

I can agree that Patanjali’s yoga contains many elements of what we call psychology. It contains a sort of analysis of various categories of mental activity, and an analysis of the causes of suffering, and suggests methods for reducing or eliminating suffering. It’s not like western psychology with various types of counseling and elaborate classifications of personality types and disorders, and psychological tests. But Patanjali’s yoga also is a philosophy of liberation and associated beliefs so I don’t know how someone can say it’s just a practical psychology, unless its just an attempt to make it palatable to westerners.

#120

This is where I allegedly flame-baited Surya Deva

Actually I gave him an opening that I knew he couldn’t resist, and he jumped on it with a vengence, while ignoring the main point of the post, which was pointing out all of the many ways that he has misrepresented me in this thread alone, which has also been done on many other threads throughout this forum.

This can be seen as a tacit admission that he has on many occasions misrepresented my words and my positions on this forum. This is a continuing pattern of malevolent personal attacks which the moderator has failed to recognize and stop. He continues this pattern of personal attack by attempting to characterize me as a nuisance and accusing me of deliberating ruining threads.

The fact is that on many occasions Surya Deva himself has deliberately ruined threads attacking not only me but others as well, moving the threads so far off topic that the subject matter is completely lost, and continuing to argue ad infinitum while refusing to acknowledge the points made by others. And yet the moderator tolerates this. Now if I legitimately oppose his ideas, I am accused of deliberately ruining threads. I say, if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

#121

Returning to the topic of what is hindu and what is non- hindu,

The compound ?Hindu philosophy? is ambiguous. Minimally it stands for a tradition of Indian philosophical thinking. However, it could be interpreted as designating one comprehensive philosophical doctrine, shared by all Hindu thinkers. The term ?Hindu philosophy? is often used loosely in this philosophical or doctrinal sense, but this usage is misleading.

I would like to point out that Surya Deva has in fact used this concept of hinduism many times on this forum, in threads like “Is yoga hinduism” and “I am no longer hindu” (which he started after the hindus kicked him out of their forum). Now when it suits his purpose, he uses another definition. Now under that new definition, I cannot hope to win that argument, however a little clarification will show that what I said is valid, though controversial.

There have been different interpretations of the historical development of Samkhya philosophy. Some, including Dr Zimmer, and Dr Garbe, believed that Samkhya philosophy developed outside of the Vedic system and was later adopted by the Vedic thinkers, although in a modified form, since the non-Aryan and non-Vedic Samkhya contained elements that were contrary to the Vedic religion. This view is supported by references in the Mahabharata to a large body of Samkhya literature. Vijnana Bhiksu, author of the most extensive commentary on the Samkhya Pravachana Sutram, also referred to this body of literature. He stated that in his time (roughly fourteenth century), only a sixteenth part of it remained. It was from this remnant that he reconstructed the Samkhya Pravachana Sutram, which is now all that remains of it.

It is this important document that Gerald Larson and his followers like Surya Deva choose to ignore, ostensibly because they can no longer reconstruct it from original sources. However in my opinion this continues the active suppression of this literature by the Vedantins who dominate modern hinduism. This started with Sankara, who fought against it vigorously, and there can be no denying this. Vijnana Bhiksu also mentioned this suppression, and in my opinion, it continues to this very day with Surya Deva and others of his persuasion.

#122

Patanjali’s writing. Has he written anything more? Its funny I’ve read this text here and their. But its been a while. I just read it again. Amazing.
His system truly is practical, if you use the definition of practical. In the same sense western phychology is not practical. :stuck_out_tongue:
I think I shall start a thread on patanjali’s text.
Like I said is their any more writings under him?

#123

Now I have shown that Surya Deva has engaged in a pattern of deception by falsely claiming to have credentials which he does not have. He has claimed to have written a dissertation, which is a project that is written in pursuit of PhD degree, which we can discern from his other posts that he does not have. He has also claimed that his work has undergone peer review, which it has not. Getting a grade on a college paper is not peer review.

Unless Surya Deva can substantiate his claims, they have to be regarded as fraudulent.

I have also shown how Surya Deva has engaged in a continuing pattern of personal attacks against me, often employing lies, misrepresentation, and other dishonest tactics, along with other bad behavior on the forum. If the management allows this to continue, it can only be to its own detriment.

@Surya Deva

Report this!

#124

[QUOTE=Avatar186;75649]Patanjali’s writing. Has he written anything more? Its funny I’ve read this text here and their. But its been a while. I just read it again. Amazing.
His system truly is practical, if you use the definition of practical. In the same sense western phychology is not practical. :stuck_out_tongue:
I think I shall start a thread on patanjali’s text.
Like I said is their any more writings under him?[/QUOTE]

No, not really. There was a Sanskrit grammarian named Patanjali, probably not the same person. Also most scholars agree that even the yoga sutras was not written by a single individual, but was compiled from several texts over a period of time.

#125

Its sorce does not matter. Only the content within. :stuck_out_tongue: :slight_smile:

#126

It has great composition.
Is basically written in step by step format.
Explanation and method wise.
I will have to give it more due attention. Before I could properly discuss it.

#127

@Surya Deva

Report this!

Yes, I have. Despite asking you not to correspond with me, to stop the personal attacks, you have still not desisted. So I am reporting you once again. I will repeat again I don’t come on this forum to be abused and insulted by you. I come here to discuss Yoga.

I will not return any of your personal attacks. I am simply going to report them and keep reporting them till something is done about it. If nothing is done, I will leave. I really don’t have the time or energy to respond to all this nastiness. I come here to discuss Yoga, not to be insulted and abused by you. The amount of disrespect and nastiness you have shown to me is simply unacceptable.

Now I have shown that Surya Deva has engaged in a pattern of deception by falsely claiming to have credentials which he does not have. He has claimed to have written a dissertation, which is a project that is written in pursuit of PhD degree, which we can discern from his other posts that he does not have. He has also claimed that his work has undergone peer review, which it has not. Getting a grade on a college paper is not peer review.

This is slander. It has nothing to do with this thread at all. It is basically plain nastiness. Hence I am reporting your post for deliberately being nasty to me and poisoning this thread.

I asked you to stop. You even received a plain warning from David to stop. You have not stopped.

#128

Namaste,

I apologize for the really ugly and unpleasant discussions above to all readers(including lurkers) There will be none of that anymore, so we can all return back to the topic.

Just for the record I would like to clarify the slanderous statements Asuri made about my dissertation. A dissertation can also be undertaken as an optional or compulsory module as a part of a BA degree program here in the UK. A BA dissertation is between 10,000-15-000 words. A dissertation is also undertaken as a part of An MA degree program which is between 10,000 and 20,000 words. A PhD is only a dissertation and is 70,000 words or so. I have never claimed to have a PhD, on the contrary I have always said that I plan on doing my PhD in the future. I have only claimed to have a BA in Philosophy, and I did my dissertation in the subject of Samkhya and Yoga. So I am not an expert in Samkhya and Yoga philosophy and have never claimed to be, but I am probably one of the most qualified members on this forum in this subject, and thus perhaps the closest this forum has to an expert. This had been Asuri’s biggest problem with me since I joined the forum, as prior to me joining he portrayed himself as resident expert on this forum in Samkhya-Yoga, and even had his own web site on the subject. It seems he grew incredibly jealous of me when I became to be renowned here for my depth of knowledge in Samkhya-Yoga and Vedanta, and he probably saw me as a threat to his status.

It did not help matters that I discovered many gaping holes in Asuri’s account of Samkhya-Yoga philosophy, which went directly against the scholarship. It appeared to me Asuri was presenting a Christianized version of Samkhya-Yoga, and it is very clear that Samkhya-Yoga is not from a Christian tradition. He constantly presented the Samkhya dualism as between mind and matter, mistaking it for Cartesian dualism(Christian dualism). This is where it became clear to me Asuri has not properly read Samkhya philosophy, where it is well known the dualism is between matter and consciousness(purusha and prakriti). This is the very pillar the philosophy is erected on - getting that wrong is getting the entire philosophy wrong. I pointed this out of course(politely at first) but Asuri reacted violently to the criticism and then waged a vendetta against me, jumping into every thread where I was discussing Samkhya-Yoga philosophy and attacking me violently. This has been extremely unfortunate and has ruined many good discussions on this forum. I really hope if Asuri ever decides to pursue a formal education in Samkhya that he does not react this violently to criticism of his ideas by his professors.

I hope nobody is put off from discussing the philosophy of Samkhya-Yoga. It is an excellent topic of discussion and I encourage more participation in it. Now that David has enforced and demonstrated more stricter rules on personal attacks, there will be no more nastiness, personal attacks and slander I assure you. Discuss ideas, not people.

#129

SO.
When you say yoga is nothing but practical psychology, do you mean a form of psychology ? Western psychology? psychology as taught under a certain author?

I do believe. That indeed, yoga is practical psychology.
I also believe. To be true, that yoga is practical physiology.
Though i do think. That most forms of psychology and physiology are incomplete.
For each tries to be autonomous, and disregards the other.

This may not be true in all circumstances. But if the current world " truly understood"psychology for instances, their wouldn’t be so many documents on it!

Whatcha think.

Well the definition of psychology is the science of mind and behaviour i.e. systematic empirical knowledge about mind and behaviour. Yoga is also the science of mind and behaviour and a systematic and empirical knowledge of mind and behaviour.

As I have demonstrated earlier there are many Yogic theories which foreshadow modern psychological theories e.g., How unconscious thoughts affect our current behaviour and feelings. How behaviour becomes conditioned and is deconditioned. As well as systematic description of types of thoughts, emotions, levels of concentration, states of consciousness. All of this is very rich psychological material.These are just some of the examples that show Yoga is a psychology and should not be treated like religion or mysticism, but an actual practical psychology.

I think it is misinformation to state Yoga is religious or a religion. It is certainly used in many religions, but the theory and practice of Yoga is as scientific and secular as any other scientific theory. It deserves to be studied seriously by psychologists and Patanjali recognized officially along other great psychologists in history.

My aim is to take Samkhya-Yoga out of the category of religion and philosophy and place it squarely into the category of science. I want Samkhya-Yoga to be studied officially as part of science. This is what I aimed to do in my dissertation and what I intend to do with my future Phd.

#130

Pure unconsciousness. Pure absorption.“wholly” absorbed.
If you are thinking yet unaware of it, it is not that the thoughts came from unconsciousness,but the mind was absorbed in something else.
Absorption is the easy part. You do it everynight while sleeping.
Consciousness = 4 senses in the head, 4 fingers.
Subconsciousness = feeling, biggest sensory organ =thumb
Awake is consciousness in the head.
Asleep/dreaming is absorption into the 5th sense,feeling.
In unconsciousness, wholly absorbed. Well. Deep deep sleep.

I have willingly done it. I have no memory of it. It is not like sleep.
when doing it willingly, it is like a wall. On one side I’m aware. The next, nothing. When I will fall into it,on coming back, I felt very refreshed,and could see through my eyelids with my mind.for a short time.

My question! How do you go into unconsciousness, and bring it back? Ie how do you become consciouse within unconsciousness? Patanjali. Concentrative insight,or self control as he states it. If you are absorbed. “You” cease for a period.
He gives the method to get their but not the end game.

#131

In order to enter into samadhi(absorption) simply follow Patanjali’s Kriya Yoga of 8 limbs, Samadhi is the goal of the practice. Patanjali does not leave out any anything, he gives you the method to get to the very goal of Yoga. However, you will need to read more Yoga shastras to get specific and individual techniques such as the various asanas, pranayamas and dharanas. To learn those I highly recommend the books published by Bihar school of Yoga, from the Satyananda Tantra Yoga tradition.

#132

So then, is it only the peer review thing that you’re lying about? I suspect there’s quite a bit more where that came from.

#133

[QUOTE=rolfi;75914]So then, is it only the peer review thing that you’re lying about? I suspect there’s quite a bit more where that came from.[/QUOTE]

Welcome back Asuri under your new account. You still are intent on personal attacks I see, getting banned was obviously not enough to drive home the message that personal attacks are not tolerated on this forum.

I honestly do not know what you hope to achieve by making slanderous statements about me(If anything you have just shown yourself to be in bad character) I am not lying. I do have a BA Philosophy degree with a 15,000 word dissertation in Samkhya and Yoga with distinction marks, and it has gone through peer or academic review, because it has to be assessed by my professor, a faculty member and an external academic body. This is indeed a type of peer review.

In any case I am not really bolstering my achievements, a BA degree is obviously just an entry level academic qualification. There are higher qualifications like Masters and Phd’s(Although it maybe possible for me to directly do a Phd, because my dissertation according to my supervisor is roughly equivalent to a masters) However, the fact still remains that I have a formal qualification in the field and would be recognized universally by academia as being more qualified in this subject than you. We are not on a level playing field.

I will also point out that it is pretty clear I have an academic background from the literary style and the knowledge I have shared on this forum which evidences familiarity with the academic literature/scholarship in the field. You undermine this simply out of spite, but show your bad character in the process.

Please treat this as my last post to you. I am only replying because you still continue to slander me, and I am putting the record straight as I did earlier with my dissertation, which I am sure everybody will note you have not apologized for. As far as I am concerned it’s game over for you. You have received several warnings for personal attacks, a three month temporal ban and now a permanent ban. Now you return with a new account to continue a bit of the same. This really has all gown to show how seriously you suffer in character. It is easy for any impartial reader on this forum to judge you pretty badly. I am just going to leave it at that.

I bet you hoped I would take your bait - so you can resume your campaign of abuse, insult and slander again. Well I have, but only to say my final words to you(I have no other means of communication, your pm feature does not work yet). A note of advice to you: Leave, it’s game over. You’ve lost everything here. Returning with a new account to resume your vendetta against me is truly pathetic.

Good luck in your future endeavors. I am putting your new account on ignore. Reply if you must, but I will not be able to see it :slight_smile:

#134

kind of sad to find a “forum troll” on a yoga forum, doesn’t that contradict everything yoga and spirituality is about? Here is some positive energy hoping to clean the negative vibes :slight_smile:

#135

Back to the point!
I realize I’ve posted a similar question recently. I apologize, its hard to keep track on a mobile device. Bahaha! Anyway. I know absorption. I need practise for I am no master.
To restate my question.
H’m. Can one be in samadhi,and aware of the world simultaneously. Absorbed yet aware of the world. This is basically asking if you can remain in a state like deep sleep. Yet function in the world. :slight_smile: