A Veiled Existance

Spirituality
#1

In Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras he uses veils as an analogy for the separation of self - separation from integration of self - separation from others - separation from the divine. The veil analogy is also used in a movie about the enlightenment of St. Francis.

In response to the writing prompt, ‘How does the world see me’, I found myself writing about veils, so I thought I would share it here.

Recorded reading of ‘A Veiled Existance’

This reading is from a series on HathaYoga.net called, “30 Minutes with Mo” in which I write for 30 minutes, non stop, unedited, totally candid. Then I make an audio recording so that the reader can hear tone and inflection. Take this and all readings from the series for what they are - candid, from the hip, in the moment, not a declaration or carefully pondered philosophical stance. So far I’ve only posted two readings on HathaYoga.net, but by the end of the weekend I hope to post another 8 that are sitting on my hard drive.

#2

YogiMoni: Here…these are my veils. I entrust them to you. What will you do?

Me: Take them off?

LOL. Sorry. I couldn’t resist.

#3

[QUOTE=Asuri;72462]YogiMoni: Here…these are my veils. I entrust them to you. What will you do?

Me: Take them off?

LOL. Sorry. I couldn’t resist.[/QUOTE]

Hey - that’s cool Asuri - at least you listened enough to make a joke about it. I appreciate that.

At the end - ‘these are my veils’ means I have removed them and am baring my ‘soul’ - what will you do? reject me? accept me? ignore me? reveil me?

#4

[QUOTE=YogiMoni;72463]At the end - ‘these are my veils’ means I have removed them and am baring my ‘soul’ - what will you do? reject me? accept me? ignore me? reveil me?[/QUOTE]

pinches self…swallows hard…

Seriously though, it’s an interesting topic and an interesting perspective. Usually yoga is very self-centered. It’s all about getting through the different levels of being (veils) so that the yogi can discover his own true nature. Here you’ve asked how do we see [I]each other[/I] when the veils have been removed. This is a legitimate philosophical question.

In Samkhya-Yoga philosophy the self that has been stripped of its veils has none of the attributes of the physical and psychological being. This creates a problem because if the self has no attributes, there is nothing to differentiate one self or soul from another. If there is nothing that differentiates us, then are we all the same self, merged into one another as you said? Or if we are not one self, then what really differentiates one from another? Or (and I think you touched on this too) maybe these veils are necessary in order for us to interact. Without our mind, senses, thoughts, and emotions, what is there to communicate and what is the means of communication? In Samkhya-Yoga philosophy, the interaction of the soul and the material nature is said to be like the blind and the lame.

I’m not sure this is really what you were talking about though. You are more concerned with the impressions that we superimpose on one another and the world in general. This is a different philosophical problem that is known in Indian philosophy as [I]avidya[/I] (a=not, vidya=seeing). I could go on but for now I’ll just say that using the metaphor the veil you’ve touched on several legitimate points of yoga philosophy that could be discussed at length.

#5

[QUOTE=Asuri;72472]
In Samkhya-Yoga philosophy the self that has been stripped of its veils has none of the attributes of the physical and psychological being. This creates a problem because if the self has no attributes, there is nothing to differentiate one self or soul from another…[/QUOTE]

Thanks for engaging a discussion about my ‘stream of consciousness’ essay…

Hmmm… this is interesting. In my reading of some yogic texts the soul is individualized, while spirit is not. Does Samkhya Yoga see soul and spirit as one and the same?

#6

Samkhya-Yoga doesn’t really use the term soul, so it depends on how we want to define it. I used self and soul as interchangeable words, but we could just as easily define the soul as the subtle body, or the entity that transmigrates from one physical body to another, and which contains the fundamental dispositions that impel us along one course or another in life. Or we could use soul to mean something altogether different, but I’m not sure what that would be.

In what sense do you use the word soul?

#7

[QUOTE=Asuri;72482]Samkhya-Yoga doesn’t really use the term soul, so it depends on how we want to define it. I used self and soul as interchangeable words, but we could just as easily define the soul as the subtle body, or the entity that transmigrates from one physical body to another, and which contains the fundamental dispositions that impel us along one course or another in life. Or we could use soul to mean something altogether different, but I’m not sure what that would be.

In what sense do you use the word soul?[/QUOTE]

the entity that transmigrates from one physical body to another, and which contains the fundamental dispositions that impel us along one course or another in life.

#8

OK, fair enough. In a sense then, the soul could be considered one of the veils, but I don’t think that’s what you meant. I think you’re more interested in what I would call [I]avidya[/I]. Are you familiar with the story of the snake and the rope?

#9

The story of the snake and the rope is the classic metaphor used to explain avidya. Before I begin I have to correct something I said before. Vidya is not[I] seeing[/I], it is defined as knowledge, learning, right knowledge, or spiritual knowledge. A-vidya is its opposite, ignorance, folly, or lack of knowledge.

The story goes that a man in a dark room sees what he believes is a snake, and he reacts with fear, but when he lights a lamp and can see clearly he realizes that it was not a snake but only a rope, and his fear subsides.

There are several aspects to the story:
Because of the darkness, the man’s perception is different than the underlying reality.
The man acts based on what he perceives to be true, but he is wrong.
What we experience is not reality, but rather our own perception.
The lamp is a metaphor for knowledge or truth.
When our perception is consistent with the underlying reality, then right action can occur.

If I understand correctly, the veils that YogiMoni talks about are the snakes that people project on us, although they don’t always have to be something scary or horrible. They can also be something pleasant or desirable, depending on the needs of the person doing the projecting. Taking off the veils is like turning on the light, we get to see what the underlying reality really is. How we react to the unveiling then would depend on the nature of the underlying reality.

#10

[QUOTE=Asuri;72486]The story of the snake and the rope is the classic metaphor used to explain avidya. Before I begin I have to correct something I said before. Vidya is not[I] seeing[/I], it is defined as knowledge, learning, right knowledge, or spiritual knowledge. A-vidya is its opposite, ignorance, folly, or lack of knowledge.

The story goes that a man in a dark room sees what he believes is a snake, and he reacts with fear, but when he lights a lamp and can see clearly he realizes that it was not a snake but only a rope, and his fear subsides.

There are several aspects to the story:
Because of the darkness, the man’s perception is different than the underlying reality.
The man acts based on what he perceives to be true, but he is wrong.
What we experience is not reality, but rather our own perception.
The lamp is a metaphor for knowledge or truth.
When our perception is consistent with the underlying reality, then right action can occur.

If I understand correctly, the veils that YogiMoni talks about are the snakes that people project on us, although they don’t always have to be something scary or horrible. They can also be something pleasant or desirable, depending on the needs of the person doing the projecting. Taking off the veils is like turning on the light, we get to see what the underlying reality really is. How we react to the unveiling then would depend on the nature of the underlying reality.[/QUOTE]

You honor me by taking the time to comment on my video. Would you mind if I posted your comments - crediting you, of course - on my web site? I think it will help some folks better understand my thoughts.

#11

Not at all. I would be honored.

#12

Hey Asuri - I shared your comments here.

Your name is mentioned at top, then name and website in author box at bottom

#13

Thanks very much for the plug. I really need to update that website.