I wanted to start practicing Raja yoga and was hoping I could get an explanation on somthing.
I’ve in Raja yoga they say samadhi is attaind through concentration meditation
I’ve also read that samadhi is attaind through the full rising of kundalini.
Is samadhi just a word meaning exstacy?
What I wanted to know is what is the differance of the event of these two samadhis?
Thank you
Hello Alpine,
Interesting question - about the relationship between hatha yoga and raja yoga. One of the foundational texts on hatha yoga ([I]Hatha Pradipika[/I]) states that there is no hatha yoga without raja yoga and no raja yoga without hatha yoga. In other words, hatha yoga, including the rising of kundalini, is meant as a preparation for meditation practices leading to the highest forms of samadhi (nirvikalpa samadhi). See Georg Feuerstein’s [I]The Yoga Tradition[/I], chapter 18, pp 398 - 399 for a lengthier explanation.
Samadhi is ecstasy, but it comes in many forms (see Patanjali Yoga Sutra’s chapter I or a description of the Buddhist jhana states).
Maybe you were looking for a different reply. So just start practicing whatever you are drawn to. Some meditatation to calm the mind and some yoga postures and breathing to help your sitting practices. This is raja yoga. Concentration and meditation on the firm foundation of working with the body (hatha yoga). There are many roads to Rome. And many explanations for these roads and the final destination. Raja yoga uses the explanations provided by Patanjali’s [I]Yoga Sutras.[/I]
Practice!
In Patanjali sutra’s it says that if you concentrate on various objects or forms you acquire certain siddhi powers.
What do you concentrate on to attain the samadhis, and finally Kaivalya?
Do “all” the siddhi powers come as byproduct of the samadhis?
In chapter I, Patanjali dedicates seven sutras to the object of meditation (I-33 thru I-39). In sutra I-39 Patanjali opens the door to meditating in any way one wishes. One of the most popular yoga meditations is mantra meditation, for example the mantras “I am” (pronounded ayam) and “soham”. But there are a myriad other possibilities. The later Vijnana Bhairava Tantra list 112 possibilities, including meditation on the breath (which is my favorite).
Who knows? If these magical aspects of yoga can motivate you to start practicing, then all the better. But what use is levitation to run through mud and thorns (sutra III-40)? We have roads and automobiles nowadays. And Patanjali himself warns us that the special powers can be an obstacle to samadhi when the ego gets caught up in them ([I]These sensory gifts may feel like attainments, but they distract one from integration.[/I] III-38 ).
The yoga miracles never cease to amaze and confuse me. But, in my opinion, the greatest miracle is this very world. This world is at the same time sacred (nirvana) and profane (samsara). And the highest “powers” by far are friendliness, compassion, delight, and equanimity (sutra I-33).
Hi Alpine9,
Raja yoga translates as Royal Yoga.
Yoga fit for Kings & Queens, the Royal Road, and so on.Mantra meditation,for e.g, is a raja yoga, or one type as such.
Samadhi is a high state of Consciousness. To me at least, it usually implies a certain amount of self-absorbption & introspection although, some long-time meditators may be able to go-- spontaneously, into samadhi, so to speak even on top of the number 9 bus or the subway or the office.But most of us would have to be in a meditative asana position & with our eyes closed.
There is still more work to be done once you have woken up Kundalini., and the energies are flowing freely & unobstructed.Also i have read and i am guessing that there may well be grades of samadhi.The things here is it may well become hard to put convey the state in words other than philosphically and then such description would remain elusive in terms of being amenable to understanding by another person you were trying to explain it to.Also, once you get to the final rung of the royal patanjali ladder, you’ve got another umpteenth rungs.In fact the job is never finshed but also always finished & perfect already.
It has been said that samadhi is a combination of ecstasy( the effect of Kundalini) and Bliss (Pure Consciousness, unadulterated , so to speak, free of thoughts/‘Mind control’ modifications etc)
You are not the body,not the mind (or even that particular thought).Then what are you?
I’ll leave you with the first sutra from a significant text within the Kashmir Shaivism yoga tradtion.These dudes knew a few things about yoga, and exposited a great deal on the metaphysical bases for (yoga) experiences, i.e those borne out of yogic or spiritual practices…
‘[U]The Absolute [I]Citti[/I], Consciousness, out of it’s own free will is the cause of the siddhi that manifests the Universe[/U]’
Sutra 1, [I]The Pratyabhijnahrdayam[/I]
Enjoy!!!
[QUOTE=Willem;30746]Hello Alpine,
Interesting question - about the relationship between hatha yoga and raja yoga. One of the foundational texts on hatha yoga (Hatha Pradipika) states that there is no hatha yoga without raja yoga and no raja yoga without hatha yoga. In other words, hatha yoga, including the rising of kundalini, is meant as a preparation for meditation practices leading to the highest forms of samadhi (nirvikalpa samadhi). See Georg Feuerstein's The Yoga Tradition, chapter 18, pp 398 - 399 for a lengthier explanation.
Samadhi is ecstasy, but it comes in many forms (see Patanjali Yoga Sutra's chapter I or a description of the Buddhist jhana states).
Maybe you were looking for a different reply. So just start practicing whatever you are drawn to. Some meditatation to calm the mind and some yoga postures and breathing to help your sitting practices. This is raja yoga. Concentration and meditation on the firm foundation of working with the body (hatha yoga). There are many roads to Rome. And many explanations for these roads and the final destination. Raja yoga uses the explanations provided by Patanjali's Yoga Sutras.
Practice![/QUOTE]
Hello all,
This is my first post here.
The late Swami Vivekananda (1863 - 1902) had a different viewpoint with regard to Raja Yoga and Hatha Yoga.
Here is a quotation from the chapter First Steps, in his book Raja Yoga:
"R?ja-Yoga is divided into eight steps. The first is Yama — non-killing, truthfulness, non-stealing, continence, and non-receiving of any gifts. Next is Niyama — cleanliness, contentment, austerity, study, and self-surrender to God. Then comes ?sana, or posture; Pr?n?y?ma, or control of Pr?na; Praty?h?ra, or restraint of the senses from their objects; Dh?ran?, or fixing the mind on a spot; Dhy?na, or meditation; and Sam?dhi, or superconsciousness. The Yama and Niyama, as we see, are moral trainings; without these as the basis no practice of Yoga will succeed. As these two become established, the Yogi will begin to realise the fruits of his practice; without these it will never bear fruit. A Yogi must not think of injuring anyone, by thought, word, or deed. Mercy shall not be for men alone, but shall go beyond, and embrace the whole world.
The next step is Asana, posture. A series of exercises, physical and mental, is to be gone through every day, until certain higher states are reached. Therefore it is quite necessary that we should find a posture in which we can remain long. That posture which is the easiest for one should be the one chosen. For thinking, a certain posture may be very easy for one man, while to another it may be very difficult. We will find later on that during the study of these psychological matters a good deal of activity goes on in the body. Nerve currents will have to be displaced and given a new channel. New sorts of vibrations will begin, the whole constitution will be remodelled as it were. But the main part of the activity will lie along the spinal column, so that the one thing necessary for the posture is to hold the spinal column free, sitting erect, holding the three parts — the chest, neck, and head — in a straight line. Let the whole weight of the body be supported by the ribs, and then you have an easy natural postures with the spine straight. You will easily see that you cannot think very high thoughts with the chest in. This portion of the Yoga is a little similar to the Hatha-Yoga which deals entirely with the physical body, its aim being to make the physical body very strong. We have nothing to do with it here, because its practices are very difficult, and cannot be learned in a day, and, after all, do not lead to much spiritual growth. Many of these practices you will find in Delsarte and other teachers, such as placing the body in different postures, but the object in these is physical, not psychological. There is not one muscle in the body over which a man cannot establish a perfect control. The heart can be made to stop or go on at his bidding, and each part of the organism can be similarly controlled.
The result of this branch of Yoga is to make men live long; health is the chief idea, the one goal of the Hatha-Yogi. He is determined not to fall sick, and he never does. He lives long; a hundred years is nothing to him; he is quite young and fresh when he is 150, without one hair turned grey. But that is all. A banyan tree lives sometimes 5000 years, but it is a banyan tree and nothing more. So, if a man lives long, he is only a healthy animal. "
Please do not take any offense from this quote. It is not my opinion. I am only quoting the writing of the late Swami Vivekananda. Jai Ram!
Best regards to all.
Namaste,
Steve J Davis, RYT, LMT, NCTMB
YA#29243, OBMT #13099, NCTMB #32321
healinglight.info
Hello Proteanstar,
Welcome to the forum and thank you for adding Vivekanda’s contribution.
We have to be very careful about definitions here. Vivekananda is talking about a different type of hatha yoga than I am. In my - rather terse answer - I mentioned two types of yoga:
[I]Hatha Yoga as described in the 14th? century BCE text Hatha Yoga Pradipika[/I]. This text describes asana, pranayama, mudra and bandha and samadhi. Raising the kundalini is an integral part of this hatha yoga. At the very end this text discusses meditation on nada, the inner sound, as a means of attaining samadhi.
[I]Raja Yoga or Classical Yoga from the 2nd? century BCE written down in Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras.[/I] It includes the 8 rungs that you mention: yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana, samadhi.
The [I]Pradipika’s[/I] hatha yoga is obviously not the same type of hatha yoga that Vivekananda refers to. He presents a rather narrow view of asana aimed at controlling the body and maintaining health. And you only have to look at his photograph to realize that Vivekananda was a meditator but not so adept at postures. Perhaps this explains his derision of asana.
Alpine asked whether samadhi attained though rising kundalini and through raja yoga were equivalent. The point that I have made (in good company of Feuerstein) is that raising the kundalini is to be followed by meditation to attain the highest forms of (nirvikalpa) samadhi. For example, Swami Muktananda writes in his spiritual autobiography that he spent many months in meditation following the rising of kundalini. And this viewpoint is echoed in the Hatha Pradipika itself. It mentions that hatha yoga is closely related to Raja Yoga, the yoga of meditation. It sees hatha yoga as a preparation for attaining the state of raja yoga (samadhi). And this is in full agreement with Patanjali in which asana and pranayama are seen as preparations for samyama (concentration, meditation and absorption).
So, much as I respect Vivekananda’s bringing raja yoga to the West, I must say that this description of hatha yoga is rather limited and somewhat biased.
Once again, we have to be careful about definitions. Traditional hatha yoga is not the same as Vivekananda’s “postures” and also very different from the popular forms of “yoga” practiced in the West.
I want to practice Raja yoga.
All 8 limbs
Could someone tell me where to start?
Thank you
Hi alpine9,
You might want to try out this website www.aypsite.org.
They’ve got a practice called Deep Meditation as part of their yoga system AYP.
It is a great way of getting more familiar with raja yoga and other yogas ,and that system covers all 8 limbs too.There is also a support forum and all that.
I wrote a somewhat longer post telling a little about AYP but i must have accidentally deleted it. Never mind.
Hope this helps.
Hi alpine9,
You might want to try out this website www.aypsite.org.
They’ve got a practice called Deep Meditation as part of their yoga system AYP.
It is a great way of getting more familiar with raja yoga and other yogas ,and that system covers all 8 limbs too.There is also a support forum and all that.Hatha yoga is often regarded as a preparation for raja yoga, the second 4 limbs but this approach takes a kind of reverse engineering. Neither is correct;they are just different.Does’nt really matter what you start with.For all i know you’ve done hatha yoga for many years intensively too or even meditation outside any more ‘conventional’ yoga tradition.
I wrote a somewhat longer post telling a little about AYP but i must have accidentally deleted it & my time expired for editing also ( 3o mins). Never mind.
Hope this helps.
Hello Alpine,
I like Core789’s suggestion of deep meditation by Yogani. This is a really great site, firmly grounded in the yoga tradition. (My only problem with this site is that it promotes cutting the frenum for performing kechari mudra. But it is easy to skip this part.)
You may also want to find a teacher and classmates to help your endeavours. There is nothing like a living teacher to clarify the teachings. San Francisco must have some very good teachers from a variety of traditions. So look and ask around. (Careful: the raja yoga by Brahma Kumaris is different from classical 8-limb Patanjali yoga)
From the outset, you may want to clarify the way you want to approach the eight limbs. Do you want to start of with the physical side - asana? Or do you want your first main practice to be meditation? Then you should choose a corresponding school. As an alternative to yoga meditation, you could also consider a buddhist approach (insight meditation or zazen).
Enjoy the journey.
Hi Willem,
Just to clarify.
Frenum cutting is not what AYP recommends.AYP provides yoga practitioners ,dedicated spiritual seekers who are sincere in their search for some answers and are interested in the means to do that , with open-source tools to assist them in making responsible choices for themselves.If you want to cut the frenum it is your choice, but AYP does’nt prescribe anything.
I prefer not to coment or critique spiritual practices or whole systems unless whati say comes from a place of knowledge and/or experience.
Some folk say you cannot learn yoga online.Well i just did.We don’t live in the dark ages anymore when esoteric spiritual practices were things kept guarded and shourded in secrecy.Things have moved on.
I’ve continually posted that link , as you surely will have noticed by now, because it’s more practical than the constant mantra find a teacher which can come across as somewhat gratuitous…
And i’ve got many teachers; you & alpine9 are just two of them.