thankz this is really very nice issue discussed and i really gathered lot of informations through this…
[QUOTE=Hubert;17782]LONG POST PART II
In case of the animals, who do not return, because there is nothing in them to return, a person who has caused pain to animals, could never redeem him/herself.
i dont want to divert this thread…maybe i should be starting a new thread, btu the above comment interested me alot. There seems to be a difference of opinion as to whether non human animals re-incarnate or not.
AS i work with stray dogs in india, puppies actually, and most of them die, i do take comfort from the thought that they will re-incarnate. What are people’s opinions on this? animals have souls, right? if thats true then surely they re-incarnate?
This thread has become so interesting and touching. I am gratitude for it and for everyone’s contribution to it.
I wanted to sharethis pop-news article here as it reintroduces some of the obvious points about the known cognitive abilities of non-domesticated, non-human animals, as well as animals’ own [I]ahamkara[/I] (“I” sense, awareness of self and of other-than-self).
As this opinion piece will touch on, modern science is still in its infancy, and is currently quite limited in its ability to fully discern, measure and evaluate the subtleties of non-human animal intelligence. In fact, there is much unknown to us still about our own species regarding our gross physiology, and currently even less is understood and measurable regarding our subtler nature (the 4 subtle[I] koshas)[/I].
Modern science is still developing means to measure and evaluate what all animals, humans included, have been experiencing and living their lives in relationship to. It is Man experiencing aspects of his own aliveness and Self, and then building an outside-himself means to verify what is already known well by him. I think this is one of the most endearing follies of Man, and I certainly understand the drive well and participate in the search as fully as my own means allow. 
I also try to remember to balance the search inside myself with the search outside myself–context and reflection are everything! Balance in this search is not 50/50, but rather anything that directs me to go inward.
There is so much to still learn, or perhaps it is more simply a matter of remembering. (Simple, but not easy.)
Your own,
Nichole
Nice article. It just underlines what I say: the ego, or sense of individuality is supersensible and not necessarily confined to a single physical organism. That is just projecting a human trait on animals. Animal “intelligence” proves this. If intelligence would be a product of our brain, hornets could not make wonderful hives, from paper they produce, birds could not make nests and you find many wonderful examples in that article. Animals do wondrous things without a sophisticated brain we have. Which does not make them on par with us, though.
Yes, animals have feelings and desires. It’s our insensivity to think that because animals can’t express their feelings or desires in a way intelligible for us, they don’t have them. They can express them, if we listen. Once we do that, it is hard to have that steak, or pork. That, on a certain level of understanding. On a still higher level, it won’t matter anymore.
If we just really payed attention to nature without rationalizing it too soon, we would be better equipped for understanding the miracle of earthly life. This is hard to do in the artificial environment created by our culture. That’s why all of those seeking real wisdom, left for deserted places in a particular moment of their life.
PS. It is one weapon of journalism to spit poison, because we like violence. There is no need to militantly express animal moral superiority. They cannot err, because they are in the “bosom of God”, still. When I say they don’t have egos, you understand that I belittle them. While, I never said they don’t have egos, but they have a group soul as an ego. That is hard to picture because it requires belief in the supersensible. That group soul is in “heaven”, all the time. The soul of a seer is also in “heaven”. What is the difference ? That the animal ego/group soul/spirit has never fully descended into physicality as we did. Thus, it lacked the opportunity for individualisation. The aim of human evolution is this; to aquire the ability to become a fully conscious inhabitant of higher realms, instead of just unconsciously going with the flow. Yes, animals partake all the time of divine love. But they lack freedom. And God wants his/her children to be free.
I wanted to share this NPR.org piece on Jonathan Safran Foer’s book,[I] Eating Animals[/I]. I have not read his book, but I thought this piece was really interesting and would add to our conversation here.
Much love,
Nichole
[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;5642]
It is perfectly fine to be vegetarian (or not) as long as it is in alignment with YOUR dharma and the choice is a mindful, conscious one. I am not fully vegetarian but quite close. It serves the health of my physical body in which my soul temporarily dwells. It is not to serve the sutra as merely being vegetarian does not at all serve the sutra. The sutra is broader and to look at it and overlook intention is avidya itself.[/QUOTE]
Great point of view.
It depends on how it makes you feel. Biologically, we are omnivorous and since we can’t break down cellulose (plant “building blocks”) but WE CAN break down Animal Protein. That means we are made to eat animals. DO it or not its your choice. Medically, protein coming from “animal sources” (meat, eggs, milk) has a much better availability than plant protein and can be found in bigger quantities. As well, animal iron is absorbed 10 times more than plant iron so the daily dosage is smaller. If you can compensate for this, go Vegetarian if you want (unless you’re pregnant, I’d never recomend a vegetarian diet to a pregnant woman).
Take care…