Another back pain issue

I recently went to a sports doctor to have a look at my reoccurring back pain that I have been having for the last 1.5 years. Over this time period I have had three episodes of extreme pain and the occasional pain when my back is over worked.

From the X-ray, the doctor concluded that my lower spine (I think he mentioned L4???) has degenerated and suggested that yoga may have caused it and to stop my practice!

I have been practising ashtanga 1/wk for almost five years.

I have several questions.

Could my yoga practice really caused my spine to degenerate? I am quite flexible so could this really be the case? I can’t really find any research supporting this but have had two doctors suggest this.

Do I really have to stop yoga altogether or is there another practice more suitable?

Sigh…kind of depressed to stop yoga especially when I only read how good yog is for your back etc…

Age and Life causes the spine to degenerate. Not Yoga.
http://www.allaboutbackpain.com/html/spine_lumbar/spine_lumbar_ddd.html

I really hope that yoga hasn’t caused your spine to degenerate. That is actually pretty scary as I do yoga at least every other day if not every day.

Also, is there any way to prevent spinal degeneration?

I am not a medical doctor; I offer you my experience:

I’m 54 years old; in my late twenties I had my first lower back issue, laid me up for a weekend. I always pushed my body hard; home projects, play and the gym, in hindsight too hard. Throughout my 30’s this issue reoccurred, say 4-6 times per year getting progressively worse and more frequent towards my 40’s. I started an ashtanga vinyasa asana practice at age 40, 5 times a week. For the first 24 months each week I developed a new body ache or pain that would eventually resolve itself, the back issue would pop up once in a while. Eventually no other physical activities triggered the back except the occasional asana practice, then gradually over the next 5 years it became far less frequent/debilitating, there was a 4 year period without any issue and since then perhaps twice a year mild episodes that require taking it easy for a day or two then back to normal. During this time I also modified my diet drastically; no wheat, no dairy, minimal processed foods; my allergies improved dramatically and it seemed body inflammation improved, I began a daily Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM tablet supplement. When I turned 50 family talked me into going to the doctor for a checkup. Doc did the common test and asked if I had any complaints, I mentioned the occasional low back thing, he suggested x-rays I suggested cutting to the chase MRI, he agreed. Well you would have thought I had advanced staged cancer the way he brought me into the office showed me the imaging, obviously there is nothing left between my L4, L5 & T11 the disc are completely degenerated. I also run 2.5 miles 3 times a week it has a calming effect for me. Doc said never run again and stop doing yoga asana. I didn’t like his verdict especially since I figured asana helped fix my pesky back issues so I did my own research, low back issues are complicated. Long and short of it some people have none or minor problems upon complete disc degeneration, some have extreme pain. Dangerous warning signs; tingling, numbness any neurological symptoms take them seriously; muscle soreness or inflammation alternate compresses; cold 20 minutes heat 5. I met a spinal surgeon long distance runner with severe degenerative disc disease, when I told him what the family doc said his advice was to find another doctor. Sure seems to me the asana strengthens my core, maintains proper alignment and improves body awareness, I’m open to the idea nadis were unknotted, gross/subtle bodies etc. perhaps, the diet and supplements helped?

It’s hard to believe any doc would not suggest rehab these days, which will most likely include asana style stretching and strengthening? I suggest another opinion, self education and further exploration into the other 7 rungs of yoga especially pranayama, noting an ashtanga vinyasa asana practice is extremely demanding check out some other asana flavors and routines.

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;65593]I am not a medical doctor; I offer you my experience:

I?m 54 years old; in my late twenties I had my first lower back issue, laid me up for a weekend. I always pushed my body hard; home projects, play and the gym, in hindsight too hard. Throughout my 30?s this issue reoccurred, say 4-6 times per year getting progressively worse and more frequent towards my 40?s. I started an ashtanga vinyasa asana practice at age 40, 5 times a week. For the first 24 months each week I developed a new body ache or pain that would eventually resolve itself, the back issue would pop up once in a while. Eventually no other physical activities triggered the back except the occasional asana practice, then gradually over the next 5 years it became far less frequent/debilitating, there was a 4 year period without any issue and since then perhaps twice a year mild episodes that require taking it easy for a day or two then back to normal. During this time I also modified my diet drastically; no wheat, no dairy, minimal processed foods; my allergies improved dramatically and it seemed body inflammation improved, I began a daily Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM tablet supplement. When I turned 50 family talked me into going to the doctor for a checkup. Doc did the common test and asked if I had any complaints, I mentioned the occasional low back thing, he suggested x-rays I suggested cutting to the chase MRI, he agreed. Well you would have thought I had advanced staged cancer the way he brought me into the office showed me the imaging, obviously there is nothing left between my L4, L5 & T11 the disc are completely degenerated. I also run 2.5 miles 3 times a week it has a calming effect for me. Doc said never run again and stop doing yoga asana. I didn?t like his answer especially since I figured asana helped fix my pesky back issues so I did my own research, low back issues are complicated. Long and short of it some people have none or minor problems upon complete disc degeneration, some have extreme pain. Dangerous warning signs; tingling, numbness any neurological symptoms take them seriously; muscle soreness or inflammation alternate compresses; cold 20 minutes heat 5. I met a spinal surgeon long distance runner with severe degenerative disc disease, when I told him what the family doc said his advice was to find another doctor. Sure seems to me the asana strengthens my core, maintains proper alignment and improves body awareness, I?m open to the idea nadis were unknotted, gross/subtle bodies etc. perhaps, the diet and supplements helped?

It?s hard to believe any doc would not suggest rehab these days, which will most likely include asana style stretching and strengthening? I suggest another opinion, self education and further exploration into the other 7 rungs of yoga especially pranayama, noting an ashtanga vinyasa asana practice is extremely demanding check out some other asana flavors and routines.[/QUOTE]

Your story gives me hope :slight_smile: I have an obsessive, ruminating mind and I was already thinking about the day I wouldn’t be able to practice yoga asanas due to a degenerated spine. You have reminded me that even what looks like the worst may not be the worst.

I have a slightly different viewpoint - go figure.

Actions that cause compression in the spine are not actions healthy for the spine. For me to say “yoga doesn’t do this” or “Yoga doesn’t do that” presumes that we operate with only one definition of Yoga. And as many of you know from my writings here I do differentiate between asana and Yoga. Still, even to say “asana doesn’t”, this too makes a similar assumption.

From what I have seen there are some less-than-wholesome actions in our current expressions of asana. So of those actions appear to place the student’s spine under the influence of compression, some of the student’s joints under the influence of malalignment, the student’s nervous system under the influence of agitation. THIS sort of yoga or asana absolutely can lead a student to degeneration of the spine, joint replacement or emotional/mental problems.

Spine “health” requires more than just physiological attention. It requires an attention to the diet (including but not limited to hydration) an attention to the breath (intention applied to consciousness) and an attention to the resolution of emotions which when unaddressed house themselves in the physical form.

It should also be mentioned that many people who’ve reached 40 or better have some degeneration. To convey that to a person as though it’s surprising ignores gravity itself. If one’s practice actually is destructive that should be constantly evaluated. But I could not, with a clear conscience, simply state that because the topic is yoga there is no harm whatsoever.

[QUOTE=Wldwld;65582]I recently went to a sports doctor to have a look at my reoccurring back pain that I have been having for the last 1.5 years. Over this time period I have had three episodes of extreme pain and the occasional pain when my back is over worked.

From the X-ray, the doctor concluded that my lower spine (I think he mentioned L4???) has degenerated and suggested that yoga may have caused it and to stop my practice!

I have been practising ashtanga 1/wk for almost five years.

I have several questions.

Could my yoga practice really caused my spine to degenerate? I am quite flexible so could this really be the case? I can’t really find any research supporting this but have had two doctors suggest this.

Do I really have to stop yoga altogether or is there another practice more suitable?

Sigh…kind of depressed to stop yoga especially when I only read how good yog is for your back etc…[/QUOTE]

Hi there,
I have seen many people having back pain, the causes can be stressed life, wrong alignment during any work, or any other.
But i’ll suggest you to not to stop yoga and try to do so some inverted posture that bends your back backside and yes i’ll also recommend to stop your ashtanga yoga for some days as it requires more power and it mostly sports forward bend.

Hope this will help you.

Thanks for the comments. I will wait for my back to be painfree before try ashtanga again. But in the meantime, can someone suggest other forms of yoga? Would like something other than hatha and the breathing/mediation forms.

If asanas are performed with bad technique, then yes injury can occur.
There’s something that you’re doing in your practice that is contributing to your misalignment instead of healing it.
You need to find a teacher and system, that addresses this.
I’d definitely recommend trying other classes and styles. Tell the teacher before hand of your issues.
The average vinyasa based yoga class, will generally not be good for chronic back pain.
In the meantime, do not over exert. Don’t try to push through pain, instead come to the ‘wall’ gently, with patience and persistence. Remember that over stretching will not heal an injury.

@Wldwld
Uh you do know that Ashtanga IS Hatha yoga, right?

Breathing and meditation is a very important part of yoga practice.

Some Arnica and/ Birch oils will also work wonders! Bath in it or massage into your back.