Are there no obstacles to yoga?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#21

dude, Hubert said as much in his first post about sleep, that obviously the senses still operate; it is the ability to comment “I am (sleeping)”, that is absent while one sleeps.

Perhaps this is a distinction you are not concerned with, and that’s fine. But it looks like Hubert is concerned with it.

By the way, Benhito – have you read ‘Meditations’ by Renee Descartes? What you say about awareness resembles strikingly what he said about proving one’s existence to one’s self. (That you don’t need to bother; if you can wonder “do I exist?”, then you must exist. Cogito, ergo sum.)

#22

Hey Techne, dude, :wink:

Well the ability to know that you are sleeping is not absent. But we tend to miss that subtle awareness beyond our experience of not being there. I could go on about this and be concerned about it, but I am simply not. Both Hubert and myself do not have to change our experience or vision, nor do we have to talk about it any further in order to become more aware of that awareness. I am pretty confident though that if he will, he will see more clearly how there is this awareness that knows it is sleeping, even while sleeping. It’s not something I can further explain through words. Must come with experience.

I haven’t read that book. He sounds like a cool guy though :D.

Love,
B.

#23

dear Bm,

For once please explain to me what is this awareness you talk.
One more thing, once some body asked Vivekananda, while he was in USA, to give a lecture, he asked if I have to talk for more than two hours, I can do it tomorrow, but if you give me fifteen minutes than i will take two weeks.
Why is it that your posts are always A4 size.
I am not as AWARE as you are, I just want to know what is this awareness you emphasise.
you see in Hinduism, we have six major philosophies about this Unknown. Like five blind men having a look over at the elephant. We believe ‘He is one, sages call him differently’.
We also believe that there is not only one way to realise Him, All other ways are as good.
But you seem to believe that your way is the only way.
Perhaps you are right.
Remember Gita also says the same thing as you say. Samata. To remain same in pleasure and pain, in all dualities.
Patanjali and Gita tells you a process to achieve that. Its not all that simple. The face you project below you name, took quite a while to realise the awareness you are talking my friend. It doesn’t come with ten days awareness course, you want people to attend free, it might increase traffic to your site and more Google Ads, that’s beside. Don’t try to sell a fast food. Yoga is not a one night affair. I may sound rough, I couldn’t careless.
You have seen me earlier, i dont fall in your trap of arguments, I just make a valid point and disappear. No A4 size posts of repetitions. I wonder you have only one medicine for all ailments. Only one track in a record.
If my mother dies, and I am aware of it, You want me, not even to cry. Yes you can remain cool, and not cry perhaps, if you have gone through all eight simple steps which Patanjali proposes.

Pranam.

#24

PS.

I know you are very well read, your knowledge is par excellence, and you are very well lettered. You know what, you always seem to be be talking from a higher pedestal. Its okay in your yoga studio, but not in a forum like this. Every one has an opinion as per his/her experience, and we are no body to always say they are wrong, be patient, listen to them. Only an advice, don’t take me amiss.
pranam,

P

#25

Oh my dear dear friend, if your mother dies and you feel like crying, please cry! Do you all see this dear friends? This is what spirituality does to men. Stuffs men full of beliefs of what is spiritual and pure and what not about himself. Represses him, makes him feel bad about his way of living life. Makes him identify more than ever with his mind and his so called flaws. Makes him judge every appearance on a subtle and very non-self-loving way. Until there is nothing left of him but suppressed, fragmented parts with no coherent sense of wholeness.

[I]Everything is pure just as it is![/I] For there is only one God, one unity and all is that! There is nothing wrong with us, we are not flawed in any way, we never have been! All is simply pure awareness, pure godliness. Whether [I]WE[/I] label it as sad or happy, or good or bad, or pure and impure, that makes [B]no difference whatsoever[/B] to reality!

If you cry, what is wrong with that? Do you think that matters to who you are? Who taught you that you should be free from emotion before you are spiritually complete? Who gave you this burden my friend? Please do cry if you feel like crying! I will never say: [I]“you should not cry because you are not spiritual or aware enough if you cry.” [/I]That is the biggest nonsense. Even Buddha himself said: [I]“Love cries sometimes.”

[/I]My only message is that of [B]TOTAL[/B] self-love. Love for everything just as it is. Complete acceptance, melting of the heart and embracing everything as your own baby.I can somehow feel the suffering of human beings. Do you wish to know what humans suffer most? Those who criticize themselves continually, [I]those who are on a journey of self-judgment in order to become a better person[/I]. People like I used to be. Why? Because their intention is so powerful and completely driving them, and they wish to be the best they can be both for themselves and this world, yet they adopt a way of going about that that is utterly [I]self-devastating[/I]. And they don’t even realize this. They actually think they are happy and doing a good job archiving themselves in all kinds of categories. Fragmenting their parts until everything is according to Patanjali’s words, or whoever inspires them. They feel they must analyze every single thing that arises within them, discriminate it as good or bad, categorize it accordingly, and either burn it down or keep it high. They feel they must be on this journey in order to reach themselves, they even tend to think they are actually being happy! Yet they suffer, I promise you with all my heart; [I]they suffer.[/I]

[U]They will realize this as soon as they accept themselves fully.[/U] A huge burden will lift from their shoulders as their hearts start melting. Suddenly one sees how much this journey has hurt him, how futile the search, how blinding the teachers. Suddenly one sees that nothing needs to be judged, nothing needs to be reached and nothing needs to be altered. Most of all, nothing needs to be rejected. In this moment of letting go and surrendering to whatever comes, one will cry his eyes out both out of pure happiness and out of unbelievable compassion towards his former journey and that of his fellow man who are still harming themselves with judgments continually. pure compassion, utter indescribable endless love. You will be amazed how much love one body can experience. You will want to shout, cry, scream, share this love through all your pores with the world! Out of the depths of my heart I beg of every single one of you, surrender to yourself right now, to the moment, abandon all search, leave all ideas and trying to figure things out behind you. It is a choice that’s yours to make! Be decisive, be free, no concept, idea or achievement can pull you, trick you into action and effort. Effort is devastating, effort is self-denial, effort is fear and constant self-suffering. Let go of all effort and live freely as you are! Don’t be fooled and driven any longer by your thoughts about yourself. Every single judgment about who you are, what you supposed to be and how you should go about and be that: Let it be as it is! It has no importance, it does not add to what you are already. Do not mingle, do not interfere, simply don’t believe in them. Don’t belief in it from now on ever again! It’s possible! And if that does not work, just repeat this again and again for periods at a time and you will love yourself so completely that you will see through the eyes of unity soon enough. For these eyes are your eyes after all.

If you, like myself, are truly tired of your semi-happiness, which really is suffering and self-judgment, have this resolve within yourself right now that: “No matter what appears either as the world or as my mind/emotions. I will not believe in any story they tell me. No matter how spiritual, important, or true it might seem, no matter if God himself told me this story, I will not be driven into effort and self-judgment by it. I will be free and soft like water, no resistance anywhere, no striving anywhere. All there is is my presence right now and I am free, I am Love, I am free!”

Love Thyself,
Bentinho

#26

(I had to break up my post because it exceeded the limit.)

For once please explain to me what is this awareness you talk.

This Awareness I talk about is what you refer to as Him.

Awareness is that which knows every situation. How are we able to talk right now? How are you able to think, contemplate, know that you exist, etc? In fact, how can you know anything? And how could you know anything without awareness? Its impossible, so awareness is always here, knowing every single of your thoughts and endeavors.

By what is it that you know you exist? That is awareness. It does not look like anything. It is not any state you must look for, it is not there on the other line of an obstacle. [I]Awareness is that with wich you start any contemplation and thought and decision about yourself.[/I]

If you say, because that’s what you might have been taught, that you are here and pure awareness is on the other end of the line, and along the line are tons of obstacles you must cross in order to get to God/Him/Awareness… Realize that whenever you are having such a thought that ignites your search for awareness, that it is awareness right now, on this side of the line, that’s seeing and fueling these thoughts about reaching itself! That entire process of first thinking you need to be something, and then deciding you will try to be that, [I]happens within you[/I], you are right there on this side of the line knowing these thoughts!

And if you still decide to go along that path, than in every single moment of that path, you are That, you are the awareness that’s right there judging it’s appearances and knowing this. And whenever you reach the other end of the line, nothing has changed, you are still there just in the same way you were at the beginning of the line. like you were the same awareness that looked in the mirror a year ago, as well as now. There is no difference in consciousness, it never changes and it is all you are. Everything that appears is simply consciousness.

So you see, awareness, [B]god[/B] or however you like to call it, [B]cannot be reached,[/B] for it is that which [I]is[/I] reaching, it is that which contains and sees/knows/recognizes the very thought of “I need to reach awareness.” whenever it appears - Where is that thought occurring? It cannot occur or be known by anything other than already present awareness/god/presence/beingness/Zen.

See this again and again in your own experience, how awareness is always right here, knowing that you exist, knowing that you doubt, knowing that you cry, knowing that you try to find god. It is not until you realize that you are already God and that you are in front of and behind everything that occurs within your perception, that you stop trying. And it is not until you stop trying that you will see you are God. [I]So the most efficient way to stop seeking and trying, is by recognizing that Awareness is already here every moment of your life.[/I] It is not anywhere else, nor is it hidden in some sort of state of samadhi. Those are just alterations of perception, which too are known by and within awareness. Do you understand this?

We also believe that there is not only one way to realise Him, All other ways are as good.
But you seem to believe that your way is the only way.
Perhaps you are right.

Yes I am right. However, not in the way you might think. You see, it is not my way, it simply is the expression of what is here.

You say: [I]“We also believe that there is not only one way to realize Him, all other ways are as good.”[/I]

The very simply truth is this: There is no way to reach god and there is no path that leads to awareness, for it is God/Awareness that is right there at the beginning of the journey. The entire path is simply an expression within the seer. It is God that is thinking (and believing in the story of these thoughts) [I]“I should become such and such in order to reach God.”[/I] It is God thinking, seeing and deciding that it is true what he thinks! And beyond and around that entire process of thought, God is still there entirely unaffected as pure awareness. No matter what experiences go through him as the flawless knower of every experience.

So you see, we have never been on any path. Even when we realize Him, we see there has never been a path for we were there along the entire line of that path. throughout every single moment of our actions and effort to climb fictitious obstacles, we were there as awareness knowing the situation! Haha, it truly is like being a fish swimming from one side of the ocean to the other to find water, only to find that no matter where you go, there is nothing but water and direction is an illusion. [I]There is no path leading anywhere and there is no one that’s there to walk it. [/I]To believe otherwise is simply mental trickery, only another belief arising and subsiding in the presence of the knower. They are simply thoughts in which we either believe or we don’t!

Reality is that all is unity. All descriptions are useless and untrue. All as it is without description, is unity. Even the descriptions are unity. All there ever is is awareness and it is you, me and everyone else alike. There is no individual to be found anywhere but in out descriptions/imagination!

All change is futile, all progression is imagination. There is nowhere to go and no one to go there. You are not in the world, it is the world that’s moving through you.

PS.

I know you are very well read, your knowledge is par excellence, and you are very well lettered. You know what, you always seem to be be talking from a higher pedestal. Its okay in your yoga studio, but not in a forum like this. Every one has an opinion as per his/her experience, and we are no body to always say they are wrong, be patient, listen to them. Only an advice, don’t take me amiss.
pranam,

I am not very well read and my knowledge lacks tremendously. There is no pedestal to speak from nor do I have a yoga studio :lol: . Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion yes, that’s good to know is it not? I am simply sharing and everyone can still have his opinion, that’s everyone’s choice for himself. I am just saying, what we try to attain, is right under our noses free from belief in opinions.

Love yourself, love all.
Bentinho

#27

I have not been following this thread, and I find that I really am not willing to wade through all the excessive verbiage. It seems to have gotten way off topic, so let me bring it back.

You will see that the ability to notice that there is something knowing the situation is equally accessible in any situation…

This is one of the basic problems that I see in your system. That statement simply is not true, because when a man or a woman is caught up in a moment of passion, whether it be anger, lust, or greed, the essential nature is [I]not[/I] accessible. And there are other types of behavior such as laziness, heedlessness, delusion, etc. that do not lend themselves to recognizing the essential nature.

Many people practice yoga and Buddhism for the expressed purpose of changing these behaviors. This is known as dharma practice. Why change them? Because they cause suffering. Most people aren’t seeking liberation, they just want less suffering in their lives.

It is not necessarily true that the ability to recognize and check these behaviors comes from what you call awareness. The function of ascertainment or the ability to determine the nature of a thing is attributed to buddhi, which is part of material consciousness.

No matter what goes on within awareness, awareness itself is always unaffected by the appearances and states that pass through itself.

Even though it is true in theory that the essential nature remains unaffected, the ability to [I]recognize[/I] the essential nature is greatly affected by these conditions. All of the Indian philosophies teach this.

All of the Indian philosophies hold that the ability to discern the essential nature is the final step in the purusa’s journey through material existence. With that accomplished, he has achieved the purpose of life and the dance of prakriti is over for him. The soul is liberated from material existence never to return. Are we to believe that anyone can become jivan mukta (liberated during life)through your free awareness? Not even the Dalai Lama or Isvara himself has attained this. I suspect that you will counter with, well there’s nothing to accomplish or achieve, because the essential nature is already free. Again in theory this is true, but in practice, not so easy as you would have us believe.

#28

Hello Asuri,

This is one of the basic problems that I see in your system. That statement simply is not true, because when a man or a woman is caught up in a moment of passion, whether it be anger, lust, or greed, the essential nature is [I]not[/I] accessible. And there are other types of behavior such as laziness, heedlessness, delusion, etc. that do not lend themselves to recognizing the essential nature.

[I]I can speak from experience that awareness is just as accessible in these states as in others.[/I] You just haven’t tried it with enough earnest intention yet. You are not open to the idea because you believe beforehand that it is not possible, simply because Patanjali and other scriptures do not emphasize it. You see, that which knows you are very loving and have good coditions is the same awareness that knows you are lazy right now. In fact, it is awareness experiencing the laziness and knowing it at the same time. There is just no escaping awareness. there is not one single thought, experience and moment that is not seen right there by you.

All of the Indian philosophies hold that the ability to discern the essential nature is the final step in the purusa’s journey through material existence. With that accomplished, he has achieved the purpose of life and the dance of prakriti is over for him. The soul is liberated from material existence never to return. Are we to believe that anyone can become jivan mukta (liberated during life)through your free awareness? Not even the Dalai Lama or Isvara himself has attained this. I suspect that you will counter with, well there’s nothing to accomplish or achieve, because the essential nature is already free. Again in theory this is true, but in practice, not so easy as you would have us believe.

Well the fact that not even the Dalai lama with his decades of practicing good behavior and conditions is a free man, is pretty much proof of what I have been saying: Awareness does not come from conditions or behaviour. You can mess with them and purify until you die, and many who belief in purification in order to reach god will die before they see, it won’t lead you anywhere you are not already at. The only time where you can recognize its presence is right now. It is in no other place and in no other time. The Dalai lama is taught according to traditional Buddhism, his vast belief and position as leader of this, limits him from experiencing outside what his belief accepts him to see. It’s as simple as that. I don’t care how nice of a person he is and how peaceful his conditions, True kindness and love come only from freedom, not from conditioning oneself.

[U]All these roads and paths and journeys are our own make-belief, they seem valid only in our belief![/U] That’s why I occasionally say that we should be wary to accept any traditional beliefs. They are just form and appearance. Awareness is simply there knowing your every movement, thought, reasoning, feeling etc. Can you say otherwise? Can anything whatsoever escape the eye of awareness? Try to do something right now, be lazy, be a bad boy, steal some candy, whatever it is that goes against your belief in spirituality, and dare to declare that awareness is not there… Constantly look at your experience and dare to say that you are not there perceiving the experience…

It may be very subtle and not feel so fundamentally powerful at this point, but if you keep acknowledging that what you seek is right here and [I]only[/I] here, it will soon dawn on you that there is nothing to attain. You will see that everything you do or belief you should do in order to reach pure awareness is like taking on a detour being displayed within that very awareness you are seeking. And from this peace comes the highest understanding in your direct experience and it just keeps on growing from there on.

It is not new what I say. In ancient history there have been many forms of teachings. You have two types of teachings, the traditional teachings, or rather, the teachings that adjust to the idea of causality, and there are direct teachings 9which can also be traditional teachings) that do not adjust to a concept of causality. These direct teachings have made people realize their true nature incredible quickly and easeful. The teachings that are subjecting their ideas to the idea of causality, are in my honest opinion, out of date; not necessary anymore for this time.

You can start to see more and more how direct teachings spring out of the ground like beautiful lotuses all over the globe by contemporary teachers mostly. Yoga was great if you lived 2000 years back, and it can still be great for some, but it is not necessary to sit in meditation for years in a row. I promise you that if you would be open to what I share and you take what I have to tell you for the next few months perhaps, by simply being with me even if it is on a forum and honestly applying what I say, not taking me on blind faith but by just keep applying what is said, you will realize your buddha nature soon enough. In fact I am so confident in this that I can promise it to you. And it will only get brighter and brighter once you have had a few tastes. BUT! you should be willing to really be free, if you are not fed up with seeking everything, than it will take a little longer to realize it. But even then, if you apply it out of curiosity rather than a need, than too you will start to experience the peace that is always here. And from that experience you will start to get fed up with your beliefs each time you belief in them again, because you start to see the incredible power and simplicity that’s already here.

[U]But often we have identified to such a degree with our petty thoughts/emotions and body[/U] that we subject ourselves to every external source that seems to hold the highest authority, and thus we live by that, from the belief of a personal identity. So then when someone comes along and he or she says: [I]“You are already free and I can show you within no time, if you decide to open up to this direct teaching and apply it for yourself earnestly.”[/I] our personal identities start thinking that it is not possible, because we have learned to look so far ahead in the distant future for our liberation and we have decided that it is not possible until we go through all kinds of experiences, so we feel not worthy actually. It sounds to good to be true, this could not be so right? This would be miraculous, imagine being free right now! Or even within 6 months time!

Can you imagine being a free man within a year? It is possible my friend, it truly is. We are worth it and not for nothing: we are already what we seek, so how could it be difficult or a punishment to realize it? Please I ask all of you, take small moments of relief/freedom from what you belief about yourself and everything what you have been taught. [I]Everything[/I]. No matter if Patanjali or Krishna says otherwise, just for small moments trust in your own authority rather than external dreams and dream-people and rest as awareness in the face of a belief system about yourself and your journey ahead. Just let the experiences in your life[I] be[/I], for just moments, again and again. In those moments you will start to see how awareness is right here, peacefully knowing everything you do. From this, your entire ‘path’ will be seen in a much clearer perspective and freedom will be your experience again and again until you choose entirely for that. It just needs a little time to mature, that’s all. But once you start this direct approach, there is no reverse gear. You will be free, guaranteed.

Love & peace,
Bentinho.

#29

I can speak from experience that awareness is just as accessible in these states as in others.

That’s funny that your direct experience is different than mine. You would have us reject teachings that have stood for thousands of years based on the experience of the sages and many others. Your statement about the Dalai Lama is laughable. And you reject the concepts of cause and effect that are at the heart of all Indian philosophies, in order to sell your own method.

I think you misunderstand the process of yoga, my friend. People love yoga, because they do find what they need. You cannot simply take a system that is thousands of years old and say, that’s not necessary anymore, follow me instead. Where will your free awareness be in a thousand years? Gone and long forgotten, my friend - [I]long[/I] forgotten.

Why should we listen to you? Because you overwhelm us with the sheer volume of your words? When I do take the time to read them, I’m often underwhelmed by the quality of your reasoning. You simply dismiss valid objections and urge us to try it your way. You claim that your system will make us free, but you can’t really tell us what this freedom means. Well, I can tell you that in all of Indian philosophy, it means freedom from material existence. Is that what we’re supposed to get from your free awareness program? That doesn’t really help us much in our daily lives.

#30

I think you misunderstand the process of yoga, my friend. People love yoga, because they do find what they need. You cannot simply take a system that is thousands of years old and say, that’s not necessary anymore, follow me instead. Where will your free awareness be in a thousand years? Gone and long forgotten, my friend - [I]long[/I] forgotten.
Hello Asuri,

Well I am the first to hope that it will be forgotten in under a 100 years! I hope they will never even need to remember Free Awareness, that would be the best thing to happen. For every era its teaching. If all would live as awareness and act from the pure wisdom of being, no teaching would be necessary. Children would be raised knowing who they are.

If people find what they need in yoga, than that’s great! Often however, it is that they get what they [I]think[/I] they want. But sooner or later many people (not only yogi’s) will find that they want something else, something deeper. After all, we all wish to know ourselves. At first keeping ourselves occupied with a path to walk feels good; we are happy to do what we are doing. But there is a limitless difference between feeling good about what you are doing as a person, and actually knowing the very foundation of your existence.

Why should we listen to you? Because you overwhelm us with the sheer volume of your words? When I do take the time to read them, I’m often underwhelmed by the quality of your reasoning. You simply dismiss valid objections and urge us to try it your way.
Well have you?

You claim that your system will make us free, but you can’t really tell us what this freedom means. Well, I can tell you that in all of Indian philosophy, it means freedom from material existence. Is that what we’re supposed to get from your free awareness program? That doesn’t really help us much in our daily lives.
I can tell you what this freedom means, what makes you say that I can’t? Have I avoided any question about it? Ask me whatever you wish to know about this freedom, I would love to share it. All I have been sharing is about this freedom. Perhaps you skipped a few paragraphs because of the sheer volume? :wink:

I do not understand your personal motivation: First you say: Indian Philosophy talks about [I]freedom from material existence[/I]. As if that is what you aim for, right? Then you ask if that’s what Free awareness will bring you? And then you say: If it does, then that won’t be helpful in our daily lives. But if that freedom from material existence is what you want, and free awareness supposedly brings you this, why then do you decide it is not practical in your daily live, as if you would not want it suddenly? What is it you seek?

Yes Free Awareness will bring you the freedom you speak of. It will bring you ultimate freedom. Not only freedom from material existence, it will bring you freedom while still very much [I]in[/I] material existence. Both freedom and material existence are one. There is nothing but freedom, except in our imagination about what live is. We simply do not know reality but in our thoughts. All we believe in are our [I]thoughts about reality[/I], which are mere image-copies. [U]

We are living in a map and we dismiss the area itself.[/U] We much rather look at the map and pretend that map to be the actual area. I can understand why we want to live like this: Because in the map we can alter everything to our likings. We have a choice, or so we think. We can draw on it, change some roads, we can even replace the entire map by another map (read: change one belief for the other) etc. But the map will never be the area.

In other words, we need to come to terms with the fact that every single thought we have about this world and how it works, is pure thought, nothing real. If we wish to know the area as it is, we need to be brave enough to put down our maps, if even for a short moment at first, and see the vastness of the area that is already here. Then we can return to our map. Then again we dare to take it down for a second or two and we start to see more and more of this actual area. But hey, there comes the map again, it is back up before we know it.

But that is okay. These short periods of seeing the area, are sufficient enough to make you realize that the map is futile. More and more confidence will arise that you are actually already in the area, and that the map is utterly blinding and tremendously limited compared to the depths of the actual area. And soon we will even realize that even as we are walking with our nose on the map, that map is still within the trueness of the Area. Our maps never leave the area, they never have. Similarly, we do not have to get rid of our thoughts and concepts, we simply need to see that they are already within awareness.

Maybe your map says very convincing things to you, like: “I am 4000 years old and hold the highest authority!” We all have trouble to leave alone the concepts we belief in most. But even those concepts that appeal to us most as the truth, remain pure intellectual concepts if we belief in them. What all scriptures say hold truth, but we make our copy of it and blind ourselves to what’s right here knowing our journey from the start. But the moment we realize that even our belief in concepts, is pure, empty freedom. There is nothing that you can take out of already forever present awareness.

Seeing the actual area, realizing that whatever we do and feel and think never leaves the actual area, we will soon put all our interest in awareness and less and less will we be pulled back by our belief in the appearances. Simply because we see that we don;t have to belief in anything in order to be what we already are.

Love,
Bentinho.

#31

I can tell you what this freedom means, what makes you say that I can’t? Have I avoided any question about it?

When you cannot win an argument with reason, you tend to resort to nonsense. And as I recall, your explanation of freedom was nonsense.

Yes Free Awareness will bring you the freedom you speak of. It will bring you ultimate freedom. Not only freedom from material existence, it will bring you freedom while still very much in material existence.

There you have it folks, an absolutely astounding claim.

Both freedom and material existence are one.

Very much a subject of debate.

I do not understand your personal motivation: First you say: Indian Philosophy talks about freedom from material existence. As if that is what you aim for, right?

Not necessarily. The path of liberation is not the only path. There is also the path of dharma, and the path of enlightenment.

I think I agree with you on some points. Even Patanjali pointed out the distinction between word, concept, and the underlying object.

#32

Well have you?(tried it)

There’s nothing to try. It’s all just thoughts that come and go. They have no importance or existence of their own. Everything is already perfect as it is. There’s nothing to be done, no need to change anything.

How’s that?

#33

Haha. This is again intellectual trickery Asuri and you know it. Sometimes words just don’t suffice. The fact that you don’t have to try anything does not contradict trying to notice awareness in every situation. often paradoxes are complementaries rather than opposites. It just feels like that one is trying something in the first stage, because you still belief in the sense of the personal identity.

Once you start to see the space in which even this sense of “I” comes and goes like everything else, you will see that there is nothing to try nor have you ever been the doer.

But let’s either share something beneficial with one another for the sake of all who read this forum or stop this. The quality keeps going downhill :). I do wish to respond to your responses, but at this point conversation seems to run dry. You are willing in some way, but unwilling in most ways at this point to share with me beyond the personal level.

If you have any earnest questions or some quality comments, I will read it and respond. If you decide to continue with the sarcasm and being personally annoyed by what I say, than it is best not to plague this forum with such conversations any further, you have had your space to clear your energy and express your feelings, you did not want to make that choice, rather you prefer to just keep going on with being frustrated. Which is perfectly fine, but I feel like it has no use at this point, you can continue to express these thoughts/feelings in PM’s if you wish though.

I understand that there may be a lot of personal ideas and feelings that arise in people when reading my posts, either accepting or rejecting or anything in between, and it should be allowed to be there and be openly expressed, but I think that this one has run dry. If you are willing to have valuable conversation than I am happy to meet you again. But just ask yourself before you post next time: Is my post ruled by my frustration? If so, ask yourself if it has any value for you to continue this.

Love & Many thanks,
Bentinho.

#34

This thread is proof that indeed there are obstacles to yoga. For me it proved that regardless what yoga is, there are also obstacles to sound thinking. Somehow I always felt, that whatever yoga is, it should not be in conflict with sound thinking, and nothing in the world needs to be unreasonable.

With this, I leave this thread at peace. The subject is clearly adressed sufficiently in the sutras or their various explanations. This whole thread was rather a reaction to Massaros ideas, and I feel I have done my best, and I do not see why should I continue. Thanks to all for the opportunity to have some things clarified.

#35

A friend introduced me to this video 2 days ago. What he says in his video(s) is strikingly similar, even in the kind of language he chooses to use, to what I wish to share through Free Awareness. Perhaps a video will enlighten you more than my limited forum-posts can.

This is for everyone, with Love:

:slight_smile:

#36

[quote=Techne;22840]

By the way, Benhito – have you read ‘Meditations’ by Renee Descartes? What you say about awareness resembles strikingly what he said about proving one’s existence to one’s self. (That you don’t need to bother; if you can wonder “do I exist?”, then you must exist. Cogito, ergo sum.)[/quote]

And exactly with this I have a problem. It is not this easy. Of course I exist as proved by my existing self awarenes. My issue is not my existence, but the limits of this existence. Like sleep, and death.

We don’t fear sleep, because we know we will awaken, we fear death because we don not know what happens after it - if there is anything at all. The sentence: I exist must be put beside this limit of death, to see how insufficiently satisfying truth it is.

Now, this is exactly why people are religious, or philosophers. Because there exists something in us, indeed what cannot accept the finality of death. It is not just fear. It is something deeper.