Calm rational discussion regarding Hinduism and Abrahamic religions

Spirituality Religion
#341

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;38772]Oh SD, you can be so silly. You really think they’d go around burning idols and stoning women for sex before marriage??? Today??? 2010??? Come on SD, you don’t really think so.

How many Christians and Muslims are name sakers? #'s???[/QUOTE]

Yep, if they were practicting their religion loyally, because that is exactly what it says. In fact those practices still go on in parts of the world where people are practicting their religions loyally. Do you remember the recent demolition of the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan, or the stoning to death of the Nigerian miss world?

Take a trip to parts of the Middle East and you will see they still practice this.

#342

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;38773]This is completely false and it is a myth known as secularism. The West is not really secular, because it shaped by and situated in the discourse within Abrahamic religion and is based on its ideologies. It was from Abrahamic religion that the modern ideology of capitalism was spawned. Many sociologists have examined this, such as Max Weber, and have found that capitalism is nothing more than an articulation of Abrahamic religion. They have been closed allied historically. Such as wherever colonialism went Christianity and capitalism were jointly exported and went hand in hand with each other.

Abrahmic religions are really just socio-political systems of control and have no allegiance to any belief system. They change the beliefs as they go, if it is conveniant to for political reasons. They also have no problem co-opting the beliefs of others, so as long as it supports their political goals. This is why they are rife with so much hypocrisy. Capitalism is nothing more than the modern form of the Abrahamic socio-political system. The ideology is completely the same: few control the the many, all are naturally sinners and needs to be governed, everybody is kept ignorant and servile.

If you were living in a Hindu or Chinese society it would be nothing like living in secular society. The structure of society would be different, education and science would be different, philosophy and arts would be different. In a traditional Chinese society you would be living under an autocracy, and you see yourself as a duty-bound member of society who must work for the prosperity of the collective(the state) You would not be afforded the rights to free thinking or individual expression.

If you were living in a Hindu society you would be living under a spiritual society where everything is motivated by spiritual values. You would see yourself as a soul who must spiritually develop and attain the four goals of life: wealth, pleasure, duty and spiritual liberation. Thus, depending on where you are at you would start there, and be afforded certain rights and not others rights based on your caste.

If you were living in a Native American society you would be living under a naturalistic communal society where everything is motivated by nature and natural living. You would see yourself as a natural warrior, live in nature, hunt and gather etc

It is easy to assume that the way we live in the modern Western world is normal, but actually it is just one of many ways of living.

[/QUOTE]

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge in the field of truth and knowledge, is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods.

                       Albert Einstein
#343

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge in the field of truth and knowledge, is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods.

Sigh, quit speaking in riddles and quotations, and actually say something worth responding to that is connected to the points being made.

#344

[QUOTE=oak333;38778]Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge in the field of truth and knowledge, is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods.

                       Albert Einstein[/QUOTE]

Oh LOVELY! And so apropos! I hear laughter…

#345

Some people can get a point across so succinctly by citing a line than most can by reams and reams of useless words.

#346

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;38772]Oh SD, you can be so silly. You really think they’d go around burning idols and stoning women for sex before marriage??? Today??? 2010??? Come on SD, you don’t really think so.

How many Christians and Muslims are name sakers? #'s???[/QUOTE]

Hi Lotusgirl…today in Iran 2010, a woman accused of adultery was going to be stoned to death but instead they have decided to HANG her BBC news today

#347

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;38779]Sigh, quit speaking in riddles and quotations, and actually say something worth responding to that is connected to the points being made.[/QUOTE]

I’m not oak333 but your post leaves me with a question

Why?

You never answer a direct question that is posed to you, you pick and choose what you wish to respond to and you do not generally respond to all that is pertinent to the discussion so why should anyone respond to you seriously about anything or waste thier time typing out long responses when it is liekly you will not fully respond to it.

And if you read what oak333 posted with an open mind and attempt to understand it within the context of your own posts it makes a lot of sense and is rather applicable.

Surya you are a trip, have a lot to learn and you are becoming very amusing.

I think I shall sit back and watch for awhile you are getting rather entertaining

#348

Surya Deva, do yourself a favor and write a book-these people aren’t paying any money. As Shakespeare said ( a product of Abrahamic traditions ) Methinks he dost protest too much. I like also what Plato said, ( pre-Hindu )Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.( Thanks Yulaw ) Not that you are a fool but you could say less and get a better result , I think. I ask that anyone who can defend Islam in particular do so , as I am having a hard time now. I have always said publicly and privately that Islam is a respectable religion and deserves it place as a major religion. Sura 9:5 and other Quoranic verses has made me question this. I know also that scriptures are written by men and men are fallible but according to general studies of Islam they have especial reverence for the literal holiness of each word of the Quoran. So I am glad that Surya Deva has spoken on this. I am just not happy he’s spoken so much and so vehemently. Namaste

#349

Wish I could help with your struggle. I think many Americans, since 9/11, have struggled with this. All I know from the few Muslims I have met is that they are kind and compassionate. They are against violence and condemn the 9/11 attacks. I find it difficult to judge an entire religion based on what a small segment believes or has done. Each religion has had their share of violence throughout history. Some more than others. Some in the name of religion, some to defend. I really don’t know what more I can say with my limited exposure. I have followed the proposed Mosque story and it greatly saddens me. I personally see nothing wrong and think it would be a wonderful gesture, but I also understand the flip side. I guess I’m like you. I just really don’t know.

#350

From Lotusgirl I find it difficult to judge an entire religion based on what a small segment believes or has done.

Yes I agree with you…it has to true to say there are Muslims who by odds alone are good decent people and I have met some. I feel sorry for those trying to just get on with their lives and are made to feel the fear, anger and resentment that stirs against them.

Surya Deva puts forward almost perfectly, a highly difficult to disagree with argument, of course much of it is historically based I am not so sure the same level of ‘massacres’ could/would occur today. I can never condone murder, and tragically today in Iran, the decision to Hang a woman in Iran just doesn’t do the Islamic faith any favours. The last person Hanged in Britain was in the 50’s ? thank goodness we stopped it. In time things like stoning and hanging will be stopped as it is barbaric. I found the execution of Saddam Hussein disturbing and barbaric but had to also take into account his barbaric crimes against thousands yet I still couldn’t find it a deserving sentence! ? I do still think that things need to change, within and I know they will…

Th one thing that will assist this now and in the future is we are at the beginning of the Aquarian age. Wars in this age will be on humanitarian grounds and not religious ones, that was the Piscean age and it has come to the end. Religions as we know them will die out…fizzle eventually to matters of history. Metaphysics and hidden phenomena will be of great interest This is the age of the humanitarian but it will have its worrying side…the desire to spy on, a need to know all that is private, the family structure as we know it breaks down. The great technology age for good and bad is of course fully planted now into our world. These things are in the current and will be in the future…religions have had there day. All that is hidden will be revealed.

#351

While Abrahamic religions tell us that god created the world in 7 days. He created the earth, then men, then animals, then the sun and the moon. Hindusim tells us we have evolved from chemical processes through 8,400,000 different organsims from plants, to animals, to humans.

I can’t speak for all “Abrahamic religions,” but can say something about Catholocism, which does not say the earth was created in a literal seven days. Catholics do not rule out evolution or the “big bang” or anything scientific.

#352

Of course Christianity loses out to Yoga. If that were not true there would not have been so many fundamentalist reactions against it within the Church themselves: Christian Yoga and Praise Moves. In the UK, almost all Churches are offering Yoga classes to keep themselves running Christianity is under a huge threat by Yoga.

Dude, I love doing the asanas, but have no intention of chaning my religion, and see yoga as no threat to Christianity.

Unfortunately, there is misunderstanging about yoga, and unfortunately, many of those who teach yoga blend their own eastern religious beliefs into their practices, so the Christian naturally has a reluctance against practicing another religion in the process.

I am happy to take the good out of yoga and allow it to make me into a better and more healthy Catholic, though this does not mean that Catholicism lacks yoga or any of its aspects.

#353
#354

Yoga has originated during the Stone Age Shamanism:

http://www.abc-of-yoga.com/beginnersguide/yogahistory.asp

Probably it is hard to speak of Hinduism or any other “ism” in those times.

Yoga is NOT a religion, as amply demonstrated by Indian Gurus:

http://www.swamij.com/religion.htm

#355

[QUOTE=oak333;78974]Yoga has originated during the Stone Age Shamanism:

http://www.abc-of-yoga.com/beginnersguide/yogahistory.asp

Probably it is hard to speak of Hinduism or any other “ism” in those times.

Yoga is NOT a religion, as amply demonstrated by Indian Gurus:

http://www.swamij.com/religion.htm[/QUOTE]

I just want to add something.

The oldest civilizations discovered so far is in Africa, cca 200,000 years old:

http://www.viewzone.com/adamscalendar.html

A few months ago I watched a TV documentary with David Suzuki: The Nature of Things. You probably could find it on the net.

The point of this documentary was to show how the people from Africa
migrated 75,000 years ago to Europe, Middle East, Asia, India, China and even Australia. The documentary was obviously based on archaeological evidence.

Moreover, the scientists did themselves the same thing, including even
sailing on primitive rafts from Asia to Australia. It was successfully done.