Can Yoga be just for fun and/or exercise?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#21

Like others have said, Thomas you can adapt yoga as you wish, however, yoga is not going to adapt for you. The fact of the matter is yoga is a complete philosophy and practice, and teachers of yoga are going to cover it all, otherwise it would not be teaching complete yoga. To expect them to filter out some stuff to respect your religious sensiblities is unreasonable, because ultimately it is your choice whether you do yoga or not and your choice how many of its practices you want to do.

I am not going to attempt to convince you about chakras, nadis, kundalini etc, but it should be known this is the science behind yoga and why it works according to the yogis. There is no doubt about yoga working, it obviously works very well, but why it works so well cannot be explained using just a purely physical approach, one has to look at the claimed subtle dynamics that the yogis have mapped out.

I personally think it is a bit disrespectful to reject the theory behind Yoga because this is undermining the investigations done by the yogis over several millenia and the data they have collated over time. It is akin to rejecting the research of an entire culture and this is a very ignorant attitude, in my opinion. Especially when the technology of yoga they have developed works so well. If the practice is sound, the theory it is based on must also be sound.

In any case yoga does not require you to begin with any beliefs in the theory. Theory is not knowledge itself, it is just possible knowledge. It only becomes real knowledge when it is experienced. So just do the practices and find out for yourself whether the theory is right or not :slight_smile:

You can construct your yoga program as you wish, there are no fixed ways of constructing a yoga program. However, some programs are obviously more effective than others and the chances are if you devise your own, it will be as effective as the ones devised by experts. Generally, and just some helpful advice, you will stand to benefit much more from yoga if you practice all of its aspects.

#22

[QUOTE=thomas;39087]The bottom line of what I’m trying to figure out is that I would like to have a sufficient understanding of Yoga so that I could intelligently and respectfully explain to fellow Christians why they have nothing to fear, and that no compromise in their faith is required …[/QUOTE]

It sounds very serious. Seems you want to be a voice of authority in this matter and from my own experience (I’m both Christian-Catholic and I practice yoga) I know its extremely difficult subject. And also responsibility. Being an example to others (as you are now - practicing yoga and remaining committed Christian) is a bit different from speaking from a place of authority about nature of yoga and its effect on Christian faith. I guess to find answer to this question you would have to get to some sociological data about Christians who were introduced to yoga and how it affected their faith (controlled in terms of pre-existing crisis of faith).

My gut feeling that in long run it will be damaging to “surface levels” of faith (by “surface level” I mean literal and concept based level). Because of meditation practice which is a core of yoga. With meditation you develop more contemplative relation to world and God. And, from my own experience, it results in loss of meaning of those “surface levels” of faith. And sorry to say, meditation and contemplation is not the strongest point of Christian practice. Very few people practice like that. I was lucky to be in a Christian group in which we contemplated a lot.

#23

These types of things always leave me with the same thought, and I mean no offence… but

How insecure can one be in their own faith/spirituality if they are so easily threatened by a yoga class?

My suggestion, find a Power Yoga Class and stop worrying about it.

And for the record I only do Yoga as part of my workout to benefit my Martial Arts.

#24

[QUOTE=Yulaw;39441]These types of things always leave me with the same thought, and I mean no offence… but

How insecure can one be in their own faith/spirituality if they are so easily threatened by a yoga class?

My suggestion, find a Power Yoga Class and stop worrying about it.

And for the record I only do Yoga as part of my workout to benefit my Martial Arts.[/QUOTE]

Interesting that you see a desire to share yoga with those who don’t understand it, while also desiring to be respectful to the integrity of yoga, and respectful to those of other beliefs, as “insecurity.”

Or maybe you have missed the point and not carefully read my comments.

I’m perfectly fine with the parts of yoga I’ve accepted, and can deal with those things I cannot accept or don’t yet understand.

It’s not about “worry,” but an endeavor to thoroughly understand.

I’m cool with the classes I’m going to now and with the teachers.

#25

[QUOTE=thomas;39443]Interesting that you see a desire to share yoga with those who don’t understand it, while also desiring to be respectful to the integrity of yoga, and respectful to those of other beliefs, as “insecurity.”

Or maybe you have missed the point and not carefully read my comments.

I’m perfectly fine with the parts of yoga I’ve accepted, and can deal with those things I cannot accept or don’t yet understand.

It’s not about “worry,” but an endeavor to thoroughly understand.

I’m cool with the classes I’m going to now and with the teachers.[/QUOTE]

Interesting that you dismiss what I said as missunderstanding or not reading properly

you may want to reread your own posts, this is one of them

[QUOTE=thomas;39087]The bottom line of what I’m trying to figure out is that I would like to have a sufficient understanding of Yoga so that I could intelligently and respectfully [B][U]explain to fellow Christians why they have nothing to [I]fear[/I], and that no compromise in their faith [/U]is required AND to be able to intelligently and respectfully explain to those who teach Yoga and who are otherwise involved in the “Yoga industry,” that they might be alienating Christians and those of particular faiths, and invalidating the faiths of some by what they say and teach, and that they might consider being more sensitive to the idea that Yoga could be enoyed by all, and not just those who embrace eastern religions[/B].[/QUOTE]

That to me brings the question

How insecure can one be in their own faith/spirituality if they are so easily threatened by a yoga class?

You are talking about fear and that was covered much better than I could cover it by InnerAthlete so I will not go any further here either

#26

[QUOTE=thomas;39079]

So I tried it, and found it to be like Thai massage except that I had to do all the work, but a $10 yoga class did more for me than a $90 Thai massage, and I was getting in shape too.

[/QUOTE]

YOu got it:))

Also there are different types of yoga. SOme focused on body poses, strengths and sweat and some on chanting and contemplation, devotion , etc. I found mantras and other "non-bodily’ things very helpful on my yoga path as well as for my students.

#27

I actually find little or no difference between the 8 limbs of yoga and the doctrines of many other religions (without reference to a god). It seems the goal is the same; spiritual fulfillment.

I have no problem finding many parallels with Christian doctrine, and would recommend practicing any or all of the limbs of yoga in order to enhance the Christian experience.

The message is simple; do good to yourself, do good to others, hold true to your self.

#28

That’s it FlexPenguin! I was trying to articulate how I “adapt” any religious sounding experience to fit with my beliefs, and you hit it right on the head! Find parallels!
An example would be: I believe in the body’s energy system, and that we can focus that energy flow, such as when we pray for an area of the body to be healed and visualize healing, divine light in the area.
Using this belief, I can, instead of picturing my ego flowing out through down turned feelings in a mudra, imagine negative or limiting thoughts or energies flowing out to be “recycled” by nature/mother earth.
A Christian could also use his own interpretation of this: Picture thoughts and ideas that are not of God to flow out and away from you, or “sins”. God forgives you for your sins, and you release them in this manner.

#29

[QUOTE=Yulaw;39445]Interesting that you dismiss what I said as missunderstanding or not reading properly

you may want to reread your own posts, this is one of them

That to me brings the question

How insecure can one be in their own faith/spirituality if they are so easily threatened by a yoga class?

You are talking about fear and that was covered much better than I could cover it by InnerAthlete so I will not go any further here either[/QUOTE]

I was referring to people who don’t understand yoga–who think it’s something it is not. The “fear” I was referring to in this instance is a legitimate concern.

They are not “threatened” by a yoga class. They will simply dismiss it as being in the realm kooks, or will dismiss it as being another religion.

I would like to be able to sort things out so I throughly understand it myself, and can intelligently explain it to those on the outside, with the hope I can help them see past the stumbling blocks. And frankly, there are stumbling blocks that those on the yoga side could do a better job of removing or explaining.

What’s your problem with that, dude?

#30

[QUOTE=thomas;39473]I was referring to people who don’t understand yoga–who think it’s something it is not. The “fear” I was referring to in this instance is a legitimate concern.

They are not “threatened” by a yoga class. They will simply dismiss it as being in the realm kooks, or will dismiss it as being another religion.

I would like to be able to sort things out so I throughly understand it myself, and can intelligently explain it to those on the outside, with the hope I can help them see past the stumbling blocks. And frankly, there are stumbling blocks that those on the yoga side could do a better job of removing or explaining.

What’s your problem with that, dude?[/QUOTE]

I had none until the last line where you get a bit upset and call me dude

As to the rest I will respond this last time here.

I have no problem with it however your responses say you feel threatened by what you have been told or you are not getting the answer you want or you are simply not seeing what you are talking about is fear of the unknown, maybe not necessarily in yourself but in those you are trying to teach or to get to go to a yoga class. And they feel that their religious beliefs are threatened by Yoga when in fact they are not if they have a strong belief. This is why I ask; how insecure can one be in their own faith/spirituality if they are so easily threatened by a yoga class? They place too much in or are threatened by the rituals, prayers, attitudes that some teachers do/have in a Yoga class. It is just a class to learn yoga in not a church or a temple, unless you make it one.

My last teacher did a prayer at the end of every class and if it made her feel better that was great but it had no effect on me. I had no desire to force my feelings and/or beliefs on her and she was not trying to force her feelings/beliefs on me. She was simply doing what she felt was right and what she felt would help me most, nothing more. She was not trying to convert me or change me in anyway other than making me healthier.

If you do not like that part of yoga, don’t teach it. If you do not want that in a yoga class for you don’t go to it. I had a Power Yoga friend that was only into the poses and nothing more so go find a power yoga class.

Bottom-line. If you or anyone else does not like what is going on in a class don’t go to it. And if going to it makes anyone feel as if the Yoga class or Yoga teacher is trying to force their beliefs or practices on them again don’t go to it. However if you go to a yoga class and tell them to change and/or not do what they want to accommodate you or a particular group you are doing exactly the same thing to them you are claiming they are doing to you or a group.

2 wrongs do not make a right but 3 make a left so as far as a yoga teacher or class goes, if you do not like what is being taught take 3 lefts and leave. But telling them to change to accommodate you or a group is in my opinion wrong

This bit just hit me

You don’t see this as fear or being threatened or just plain lack of understanding… being dismissive and name calling… that about says it all for me.

I wish you the best in your quest.

#31

Ok, I withdraw “dude.”

(I call my own son dude, sometimes).

Some things you say make good sense.

But there is not this high level of “fear” that you keep insisting upon. It’s simply ignorance for the most part.

#32

Thomas,
I think I “get” what you are trying to ask.
I also think that some others are coming at it from a different angle, so are not quite hitting exactly what you were asking about.

My thought on this is, continue doing Yoga. You know what your friends and other Christians probably think about it, not knowing about it from the “inside”, or the experiencing of it. As you continue and choose to focus or meditate upon clarity so you can share with your friends, and as you grow to understand yoga more, the answers will begin to come to you. You will start to think of ways you can convey to them that yoga does not have to be a religion, it can be a “tuning in” to your body and mind.
I wish I could give you the answer right here and now, I’m trying to think of how to say the things I’m thinking, but they are too flighty and nebulous, they don’t have the “meat” that your Christian friends will accept.
Unfortunately, fear is used far too often in the Christian religion to convince people to be good and turn to God. They are told that if they do certain things, it is a sin, and the devil will get them, or the devil will be able to influence them.
When those in the Christian community tend to “preach” things that they are not sure of and have made inferences about (I saw some ridiculous propaganda about the “new age” from many Christian sites and even some books, and in reading them, found most of it was conjecture or presumption about a movement they truly did not understand), and when this makes it widespread into the Christian community, then it is harder to convince the whole (or even a few) that it really is misunderstood - they have been convinced that the Devil is the influence here, and you risk your soul if you delve into it, even out of curiosity’s sake.

I speak from being one who was in the Christian community for many many years, and gained so very much, but also noticed when fear was used and balked against it. I too wish there was a way to convince those in the Christian community that doing yoga is NOT asking for your soul to be possessed, or for the Devil to come in and take over.

EDIT: To summarize: I do not see you as having fear, but I see you as needing to somehow circumvent the fear that other Christians feel when you bring up the subject of yoga.

#33

I would suggest finding one who does not do that and those who offer classes for purely health reasons…look to gyms

#34

Yoga, as a discipline, is centuries old and along the way it has grown to be much more than just a physical exercise. It brings freedom to the body through the use of postures, breathing exercises, and meditation. It promotes mental calmness and resilience by teaching patience, focus, and discipline. The practice of yoga can be used for healing (physically or psychologically), improving posture, strengthening muscles, reducing stress and anxiety, relieving back pain, gaining flexibility and balance—and much more.

I believe that yoga can be just for fun! A lot of people are afraid that they're not flexible enough or that they're too clumsy to do yoga. But yoga is for everyone! It doesn't matter if you're not flexible or more advanced because all levels are welcome in a class. You will never feel embarrassed doing yoga because you don't know what to do or because you've never done it before. Some beginners feel awkward doing poses with other people watching but I haven't met anyone who felt that way in a class yet!