Can Yoga be just for fun and/or exercise?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

I understand that Yoga is a complete philosophical system and/or possibly a religion, but that’s not what most of us newbs to yoga think about.

We are drawn to Yoga because of the health benefits.

For me, I had been having Thai massage therapy and I felt wonderful and ten years younger and wanted to maintain what I had without so many expensive Thai massages, and my therapist recommened that I “do yoga.”

So I tried it, and found it to be like Thai massage except that I had to do all the work, but a $10 yoga class did more for me than a $90 Thai massage, and I was getting in shape too.

Anyway, I do not mean to discount the spiritual path that doing the totality of yoga involves, but many already are devoted to a particular faith, and that faith is their spiritual discipline, and much of Yoga would be redundant and some of it could cause some conflicts.

So for me, all I really want out of Yoga is the asana and pranayama practice. That doesn’t mean I reject the rest, but mainly that I’ve already got that covered in some way in my own religious practices, and respectfully, do not need or want it from Yoga. I just want to do the physical part. My relgion already has yamas and niyamas, and I already do my own form of contemplation, mantra (Rosary), prayer, etc.

So I don’t want to go to a Yoga class to be preached to, and I don’t want to do any chants or prayers. I get that every Sunday, and can go to daily Mass if I want more. I just want the “feel good” aspect of it, the heath benefits, and the enjoyment of the improvements I’m making in perfecting certain poses and doing things I never thought I could do. (Though I do admit that an asana practice can at times be inwardly prayerful and can put me in a more introspective and meditative state–but this would be towards my own faith and not a Yoga faith, Hindusism or any other faith).

Why can’t (physical) yoga be like bowling, swimming, walking, jogging, etc.? Why does it have to be connected to a philosophy or religion? Why do yoga teachers feel a need to preach? Why can’t they be more like a coach?

#2

Hello Thomas,

That my friend is quite a wallop you pack in your post and the subject line is a bit misleading. But the short of it is that you may do whatever you’d like, use whatever you’d like, view things however you’d like. No self-respecting yoga teacher would tell you that your experience should or should not be anything more or less than you make it. However, dictating to the teacher to only share 1/100th of his subject merely because it suits you doesn’t make for very sound coaching. Imagine my basketball team only allowing me to teach shooting because they “like” it. :o

Some teachers teach asana (poses). And if that is what the student wants and the teacher has an integrity in teaching only that, then more power to both. In fact for a teacher who is only proficient in asana it would lack integrity to teach something more. The same is true for a teacher who understands the whole of Yoga and only teaches a sliver, thus holding back from their students.

I’d also like to mention that Yoga is not a religion, though some of its tools have been used by various religions over time. This in much the same way that prayer is not owned by a religion and that I may pray all I’d like without having to affiliate myself with Christianity, Catholicism, or Judaism. Having a dialogue with the divine cannot be trademarked, thank goodness.

And while there are clearly some who would have you believe that Yoga IS “religion”, there are also those that would have you believe the world is flat, babies arrive from a stork, and that we are the only intelligent life in the universe.

But again, you are completely free to do only asana as much as you want and for whatever purposes. To me it is not particularly rewarding to have an ocean of water in front of a thirsty man and have him take only a drop. But of course if he’s getting moutain dew someplace else, then it’s probably okay.

#3

Thank you for your response Gordon.

My point is not that my Yoga teacher should feel compelled to do as I please, but that he or she should make it clear in advance what they will be teaching.

If you come to my hypothetical yoga class, and I ask you to cross yourself and say a “Hail Mary,” without ever explaining that will be expected of you and why, would you be a little put off by that?

It is understood that in basketball there is much more than just shooting, but it is not necessarily understood to those on the outside of yoga that there is more to it than just the physical exercise, except in the cases where sadly some totally reject Yoga because they think it’s evil.

Anyway, I didn’t mean to be misleading, but my post evolved a little as I wrote it.

Why I am a little perplexed about this issue is the insistence by the yoga community that yoga is not a religion, that it’s whatever you want it to be, but that whereever I go with yoga, whether to discussion boards, teachers in real life, books, etc., inevitibly it starts to point to an eastern religion. So there is talk of it being non religion, but in practice it seems that it’s hard to escape it.

I don’t mean that as a criticism of eastern religions, but that I am not of any of those faiths, and have a faith I have chosen and accepted. And I would like to bring others of my faith and similar faith to Yoga so they too can enjoy the benefits, but they see the all the religious trappings or what appear to be so, and they resist.

That’s why I wonder if Yoga can be “packaged” (for want of a better word) in a way that is totally religion neutral.

Here is something I found on the site of the American Yoga Association regarding one of the qualities they believe a yoga teacher should have:

  1. Ability to separate Yoga from religion. I have seen many poor-quality instructors take on the trappings and robes of Hinduism or some other religion to give themselves an authority through packaging rather than through the authenticity of their own Yoga practice. This practice severely misrepresents Yoga. Yoga is not a religion; it predates Hinduism – as well as all known religious practices – and its techniques have been used throughout the world. Yoga is a system of nonreligious, transcultural techniques which can develop greater self-knowledge and awareness. Unlike a religion, Yoga does not require adherence to certain creeds or beliefs, nor does it require obeisance to any particular prophet or god. Yoga is not ritualistic, nor is it occult. The texts of Yoga are not scriptures but rather handbooks or guidelines of how to use the techniques safely and what kinds of experiences might be possible. Everyone has a right to their personal religious beliefs, but a teacher must never impose his or her personal beliefs on students in a Yoga class.

I fortunately have found a teacher that I really like who fits the above, and I go to her for most of my classes now.

So I understand your point about the ocean vs a drop of water, but again, I and many who come to a Yoga practice already have the larger part in the way of our own religions and spiritual practices, and I don’t really need a 20 something Yoga teacher to lay her philosophy of life on me while in savassana, though I would not mind an occassional verse or two from scripture or a philosopher from time to time.

But to get back to the original question–would it be some kind of injustice just to take the asanas out and do them for the fun of it, or for the recreation/health aspect? Are the postures themselves and by themselves necessarily something more than a great physical exercise or therapy?

#4

The bottom line of what I’m trying to figure out is that I would like to have a sufficient understanding of Yoga so that I could intelligently and respectfully explain to fellow Christians why they have nothing to fear, and that no compromise in their faith is required AND to be able to intelligently and respectfully explain to those who teach Yoga and who are otherwise involved in the “Yoga industry,” that they might be alienating Christians and those of particular faiths, and invalidating the faiths of some by what they say and teach, and that they might consider being more sensitive to the idea that Yoga could be enoyed by all, and not just those who embrace eastern religions.

#5

I find myself grateful for your ability to be articulate without being pompous or particularly closed off. So thank you for bringing that to both the board and this thread.

You illustrates an issue in our field (as teachers of yoga). Yoga is what it is and that is very plain and clear. However that has been distorted in much the same way “health food” has been distorted. So there is something that Yoga should be and one is much more likely to wander in to a class branded “yoga” and find far less than Yoga. We have allowed poor teaching and a lack of integrity to fester in our industry and there are some trying to remedy that.

Relative to your hypothetical…If I were open minded I would not be “put off” by your teaching but would instead try it and see if it worked in my living having ASSUMED you were teaching something that worked in yours. If I were closed then I’d likely repel all sorts of things you offered, instead clinging to my fears and snugly woven “belief” system. But the actions you cite are very clearly associated with a particular religious belief and I’ve yet to have you reveal what particularly appears religious in your yoga class.

Yoga must point East my friend. But pointing culturally is not pointing religiously. And while I’d be very wary of using the web site you’ve quoted as a source for anything sound at all (as it appears quite sketchy), the quote makes germane points - though it comes from a web site intertwined with Shaivism which is a branch of Hinduism.

I also believe you’re mixing points in here. I don’t want a 20-something yoga teacher laying his philosophy of life on me either. So it is difficult to extract your points about poor teacher training and how that manifests in class instruction - it is so well blended.

That having been said, what sort of religion is it that teaches us not to learn from everyone we encounter? What sort of religion is it that allows people to believe they have IT already and don’t need to grow? What religion is it that says that 20-something teacher can’t offer a morsel of truth that strikes a chord forever changing the lives of the open-minded? Imagine Mohammad, Buddha, Mosses, Jesus, or Zarathustra lying in savasana with the same mentality you cite “I don’t want this 20-something teacher laying her life philosophy on me”. It is the very reason religion cannot be evaluated by the people who practice it and most of the masters cited above would be horrified by the behavior (in their name) of their so-called followers.

And this is also the reason that there is no persuasive speech that can be levied toward others when there is a wall of fear in front of them. So for me I only offer what I have to those that want it. I am not interested in persuading of convincing anyone. Here are the tools, here’s how they have worked for me, use them or don’t - it is your life. But you might find The Difference Between Religion and Yoga by Sri Aurobindo and The Mother of Pondicherry (ISBN 81-7060-177-0).

So again, bottom line, sure practice posture. They are, when done properly, far more powerful that “stretching and exercise” but you may do them with no fear for demons and possessions. Those entities move through darkness not through light.

#6

You illustrates an issue in our field (as teachers of yoga). Yoga is what it is and that is very plain and clear. However that has been distorted in much the same way “health food” has been distorted. So there is something that Yoga should be and one is much more likely to wander in to a class branded “yoga” and find far less than Yoga. We have allowed poor teaching and a lack of integrity to fester in our industry and there are some trying to remedy that.

It doesn’t matter to me what someone teaches so long as they communicate thoroughly what it is they do.

I’m fine with “less than yoga” if that’s what they want to teach.

I’m fine with “orthodox yoga” if there is such a thing so long as they make it clear what it is they believe and what it is they wish to instill, and I can make my decision to choose them or reject them. I don’t want any surprises.

If I were closed then I’d likely repel all sorts of things you offered, instead clinging to my fears and snugly woven “belief” system. But the actions you cite are very clearly associated with a particular religious belief and I’ve yet to have you reveal what particularly appears religious in your yoga class.

Are you implying there is something wrong with a “snugly woven belief system” and that somehow it is accompanied by fear?

At any rate, the point I was trying to make was that I would not impose a prayer or a religious ritual on someone. I would not invite them to what they thought was an exercise class and then lay some Catholic theology and prayers on them. Maybe some wouldn’t mind. But I know others would. And I know I would have minded before I was a Catholic, and I do not see that not wanting something imposed in that way would be a result of “fear,” but as a result of common sense and understanding of good manners.

I also believe you’re mixing points in here. I don’t want a 20-something yoga teacher laying his philosophy of life on me either. So it is difficult to extract your points about poor teacher training and how that manifests in class instruction - it is so well blended.

I wasn’t making a point about poor teacher training. Not sure how that was inferred. All the teachers I have had have been well-qualified and good yoga teachers according to my judgement, based on my limited experience.

That having been said, what sort of religion is it that teaches us not to learn from everyone we encounter? What sort of religion is it that allows people to believe they have IT already and don’t need to grow? What religion is it that says that 20-something teacher can’t offer a morsel of truth that strikes a chord forever changing the lives of the open-minded? Imagine Mohammad, Buddha, Mosses, Jesus, or Zarathustra lying in savasana with the same mentality you cite “I don’t want this 20-something teacher laying her life philosophy on me”. It is the very reason religion cannot be evaluated by the people who practice it and most of the masters cited above would be horrified by the behavior (in their name) of their so-called followers.

I certainly don’t ascribe to a religion like that. But I’m not going to practice another religion either, and it’s not wrong to be concerned about someone pushing their beliefs on me without asking my permission or not informing me that’s part of the deal in their class. And sure, I could learn something from someone who is young. I learned a lot from my son when he was 2. But someone presumes too much when she thinks she is a despenser of wisdom. But I’m not going to comment further on this because it’s no longer relevant to my situation, and this person is otherwise someone I am fond of.

But certainly from a Christian perspective there is no truth that anyone could impart to Jesus, since we believe Jesus is God, through whom all things were created. He’s not just a wise man or a guru to Christians, but God in the flesh and Savior.

I’ve yet to have you reveal what particularly appears religious in your yoga class.

In some but not all classes “OM” is chanted. I don’t know what that means or what is intended by the teacher, but it “appears” to be religious, and I think at the least it could be explained to the person who drops in for their first classes what it means and what is intended, especially if the same teachers say that yoga is not a religion and all faiths are welcome, and that there will be no conflict with their faith.

In our studio there are statues and icons of Buddha and one that I can’t figure out who it is, but is depicted with many arms. There are no images that pertain to any other belief systems or religions. Yet there was never an explaination as to their significance.

In one class a teacher asked us to form a circle with our thumb and index finger and point the others down while in a seated position. (Is this called a “mudra”?) I don’t remember the significance of the circle, but she said the three fingers pointing down allowed our ego to travel through them and into the earth. This is something that I don’t believe, and it’s not something she can scientifically prove, so it’s a matter of faith and in the realm of religion.

Personally…I can deal with things as they are. But looking at the big picture, I think studios like this are being somewhat exclusive and less-than-welcoming to those of other faiths and beliefs, though I don’t think it’s intentional–they seem to just assume everyone who goes there is of the same mind.

And this is also the reason that there is no persuasive speech that can be levied toward others when there is a wall of fear in front of them.

There’s that “f word” again. Why do you presume there is fear? And what would be wrong with a “fear” based on a genuine concern?

So again, bottom line, sure practice posture. They are, when done properly, far more powerful that “stretching and exercise” but you may do them with no fear for demons and possessions. Those entities move through darkness not through light.

This was never a concern to me.

I’m mainly concerned that others are missing out on the benefits of yoga because of their misunderstandings (not necessarily ufounded fear), and because of those in the “yoga business” who package their yoga with what is or appears to be their own personal religious practices and beliefs.

#7

Okay Thomas. Then we have gone as far as I can with this and here we shall move on.

#8

Okay, then could you give me some tips about doing a handstand?

#9

Hi Thomas,

You might want to consider viewing yoga more as a spiritual science ,for human self-transformation, rather than any kind of religion or pseudo-religion perhaps laden down with dogma.Within this context it can all be explained rationally, the principles, the techniques, from the Om chanting to the asanas and this might be alot more amenable to our comprehension, more accessible to a western culture…You can dress it up any way you like with ritual and symbolism but is it still yoga? Or hard to say?.Yoga is connecting with your (true inner)self.Seeing the bigger picture beyond the confetti.It is your inner world that matters, not your religion.And It is whatever you wish to make it.

I think Yoga can be whatever you want it to be and a whole lot more.

I would say try out the techniques and see or judge for your self if they have any value, spiritual or whatever.

You can explain the Om chanting this way:
that sound may have a vibrational effect on the nervous system( in yoga there is both the subtle and the gross, the nadis and the nerves, many subtle bodies in fact), and more specifically when certain frequencies or notes may be chosen, as well as the way the sounds are applied, ie .chanted, be it mentaly or verbally, by the yogi.The asanas open up energetic pathways in the body,improve alignment, pranayama and meditation also has al those benefits including creating a calm mind, and so on.To some folks this may be some consolation understanding some of the hows and whys, in a comprehensible rationalistic mental form…

If you use the( modern updated)scientific paradigm,which certainly still does’nt have all the answers , then yoga can be made, presented or explained in away more accessible and believeable to a mind-set that may not be quite so open to certain things whether that’s for reasons peculiar to the modern age, cultural reasons like being a westerner,materilstic idelogical ones, fear of demonic posession or cavorting with evil forces ,personal doubts or whatever.

Don’t forget that the statues of buddha,the icons,rosay beads,going to cchurch and so forth may just be frippery ,confetti or external crutches perhaps…Yoga [I]is[/I] all about delving deep inside , your own true inner self,after all.

It does’nt really matter then what anyone else is thinking or doing.

hope this makes some sense. cheers.

Any religion or philosOphy you might see as affiixed onto it is quite optional.

#10

Thomas,

Trying to figure out why a similar thread started as “Hello” suddenly dried out and turned into a very friendly chat. Also interesting is a similar turn here when a very profound discussion suddenly ended in wanting to know the specifics of handstand. To me it appears that a very serious question is raised but perhaps no answer is earnestly sought. And that’s fine.

Looks like, and correct me if I am wrong, it is a slight discomfort in doing something that is enjoyed (and costs also less) but there may be underlying religion there and if yes, that will be a spoiler. There is a need “to understand Yoga” to be able to tell other members of the religion that it is “safe” to practice Yoga. In the complaint about the teacher’s preaching, it is not clear if the discomfort is because of the inevitability of Eastern elements in Yoga or the incompetence of a young teacher.

Yoga is India’s gift to humanity, a historical fact that one cannot alter. What to do with it is a personal choice. Philosophy, in the form of “why” is interwoven with the practice, “how”. Philosophy takes to the unseen part of the practice. Again not wanting to see the unseen is one’s personal choice made at the cost of not understanding the practice fully.

I think, it will help to first understand ‘how we understand’. That will raise awareness about seen and unseen that goes hand-in-hand. That will prepare some ground for any further discussion. Yoga of Yoga Sutra talks about mind, thinking, knowledge, the baggage of beliefs and one’s opinions that one falls in love with. And there is nothing religious about it. There is a need to look at how things could be explained (as Core789 has done) without a knee-jerk at each word that ‘sounds’ religious.

#11

Trying to figure out why a similar thread started as “Hello” suddenly dried out and turned into a very friendly chat. Also interesting is a similar turn here when a very profound discussion suddenly ended in wanting to know the specifics of handstand.

Not sure what you mean about the “hello” thread and why there would be any concern about an introductory thread being a “friendly chat,” which is what threads like that should be, but my comment to innerathlete about doing a handstand was because he decided to abrubtly end the discussion and not respond to my responses to his questions or the other points I raised, so it was just my way of saying “no hard feelings” and that there was no intent to offend and none taken, and maybe we can talk about something else.

Looks like, and correct me if I am wrong, it is a slight discomfort in doing something that is enjoyed (and costs also less) but there may be underlying religion there and if yes, that will be a spoiler. There is a need “to understand Yoga” to be able to tell other members of the religion that it is “safe” to practice Yoga. In the complaint about the teacher’s preaching, it is not clear if the discomfort is because of the inevitability of Eastern elements in Yoga or the incompetence of a young teacher.

It’s not at all about the incompetence of any teacher, but about a teacher blending her own religion into the practice.

I have been been assured that yoga is not a religion, and that there is no deity in yoga and no creed, yet sometimes it at least appears that there is religion there, depending upon the teacher.

I have read that that “OM” means God, similar to “I AM,” and that it is a prayer to God, so if that’s the case, how can someone say Yoga has no diety? Or does OM mean something else?

Yes, I would like to be able to thoroughly understand it so I can help others see past what might be stubmbling blocks to them.

It’s too good of a thing to keep to myself.

What do you mean “costs less”? Costs less than what?

Yoga is India’s gift to humanity, a historical fact that one cannot alter. What to do with it is a personal choice. Philosophy, in the form of “why” is interwoven with the practice, “how”. Philosophy takes to the unseen part of the practice. Again not wanting to see the unseen is one’s personal choice made at the cost of not understanding the practice fully.

What unseen do you think I don’t want to see? I just don’t want to practice another religion, or have religious practices and beliefs imposed on me. I have been open minded enough to go the yoga studio and do asanas, and to understand as much as possible as I can about yoga in its entirety. I’m reading Patanjali, and have come here to this board to learn more. I think it would be unfair to say I don’t want to see, when I’m making a great effort to know and understand, and to be fair. I will not dismiss yoga as others have done because of what they think it is or what it appears to be, or beause it is practiced by those of other religions.

And I am grateful to the culture from which Yoga came. And they could likewise freely avail themselve of the gift of Christianity if they care to. Riches can flow in both directions.

I think, it will help to first understand ‘how we understand’. That will raise awareness about seen and unseen that goes hand-in-hand. That will prepare some ground for any further discussion. Yoga of Yoga Sutra talks about mind, thinking, knowledge, the baggage of beliefs and one’s opinions that one falls in love with. And there is nothing religious about it. There is a need to look at how things could be explained (as Core789 has done) without a knee-jerk at each word that ‘sounds’ religious.

Is it too much to expect that a yoga teacher or yoga studio would explain what certain things are and mean to someone who comes into their studio and who has no clue about it? Why not share what “OM” means instead of just asking us to accept it and do it? What’s so hard about that?

Is it too much to ask that they have some sensitivity to the religions and beliefs of others that they might take that into consideration and at least explain what they do and why they do it?

I’m being fair-minded and meeting them more than half way, and being very tolerant of it. I still love doing yoga, love going to the studio, love the teachers, and have been able to see past the “stumbling blocks,” but the stumbling blocks are there and keep others out.

And I hope you are not implying that someone’s sacred religious beliefs are “baggage.”

But I do not have a “knee jerk” reaction to the things I’ve brougt up. I just have legitimate concerns. I have not confronted anyone or complained. I have come here to better understand, and perhaps see what I might be misunderstanding.

But once again, for me personally, I have a teacher I mainly go to who seems to be “religion neutral.” And I can deal with the others and overlook those things. My concern now is whether I can explain to others who I would like to bring to yoga that it can be practiced by them without compromise to their religious beliefs.

#12

I actually ended appropriately, not abruptly. Thomas, you simply posed one question in your reply to me (twice) and they were both about fear. And having re-read the thread I had gone as far as I was willing.

And here, if you mean “no hard feelings” then say “no hard feelings”. None of us are mind readers and we’re already putting quite a bit of “volunteer” time in without having to wade through a myriad of possible interpretations.

I can assure you, no hard feelings at all. I see where you’re coming from and I’ve given you all I can give. We are all just human and some things need to be discovered, some need to be experienced, and some need to be re-read

I believe you’ve gotten very sound feedback from three dedicated, experienced yoga practitioners (myself included, yes). A complete resolution you’re not likely to find here. Just some crumbs in the woods.

Christian Yoga[U][/U]
Holy Yoga
Yahweh Yoga

#13

Thanks for your comments core789.

I think I understand what you’re saying.

But what if someone comes to yoga and believes he’s already got all the bases covered? I mean, I could make a case that I’ve got six of the limbs covered by what I already do (or should do), but that the physical part is something that is optional in my religion, and I wish to adopt only the asanas and pranayama (while mainting a respectfulness for the rest).

I do understand that yoga goes much deeper than that, but with no disprespect intended, I don’t need the entire depth of yoga, because I’m already getting it. Do you see what I’m saying and do you think that’s possible?

#14

Actually, what I have learnt lately, (to my shocking) there is a certain connection between babies to be born and the group spirit of storks.

For an open mind, what does no exclude the existence of suprasensible reality the following reasoning will not be extremley alien: even if the baby’s physical body is not brough literally by a stork, his/her coming into being on the physical plane is helped by several “beings” or spiritual powers. And from here, it’s only a step to count the spirit stork into the equation, as a possbility. And as a fact ? That’s upto those who have eyes and ears to see and hear. (Not counting myself there, yet :wink: )

PS. We can say we have three kinds of people today: The first whose thinking, by the power of some tradition, birth, is determinded by hystorical schools of thought or dogma, the second who carry the need for understanding in them and are satisfied by materialist scince and it’s theories, and the third, who, by the challenging expereinces of their lives have learnt the value of honest and genuine questioning, and thirst for answers what are able to satisfy the soul’s inner needs while not excluding reason and personal freedom in thought. The teacher should be able to guide the people belonging to the first two categories toward the third category, knowing that for everyone, the gratest teacher is his/her own life, as karma is much wiser than the ordinary human intellect, and the view of karma being determinded is only correct if we realize that this determination already contains the free choices of the being who lives it. Thus, it might be necessary for the teacher to wait years so the disciple arrives to a particular turning point, a important event in his/her life, what creates the opening to recieve a single truth.

Living, existing in the first two categories is just as important as the third, because the first is the foundation what later on will become lit through the understanding of later stages, the second because it nurtures qualities as honesty, focus, and self reliance, and makes the thinking process srong in itself, although this is yet dead. Everyone is just as one needs to be, and everyone lives what one needs to live. For some expereinces we live, we will find the real reasons decades later.

The merit of yoga is that wile being health and body oriented (speaking about yoga as it is often percieved), thus creating an attachment point for sensorial people like Thomas. So he must be encouraged, because while he is not conscious of it, he has come here for reasons what will only reveal themselves in the future. The quality of the mind/soul what says: I don’t accept things what are alien to my own understanding, must be saluted, because acception must always follow understanding, and not some outer authority.

#15

Sorry for the typos and horrible grammar. Can’t correct themas I exceeded the timelimit, again. :wink:

Love you guys.

#16

what is yoga??

#17

Namaste,

Not to reiterate what has already been stated in many threads, but it is impossible to separate Yoga from Hinduism. Even if you choose only to do the asanas, you still can’t escape the fact that the asanas have been created as a means towards the goal of Hinduism: self-realization/union with divine consciousness/liberation from the cycle of rebirth. You also cannot escape the fact that the asanas are based on a particular system of Hindu metaphysics which posits the existence of prana, chakras, nadis which form an intricate energy system of our subtle body. The asanas open up these energy channels and eventually facilitate the rise of Kundalini energy. Nor can you escape the fact that many of the Mudras, Asanas are based on Hindu deities.

So there are two ways of you approaching this

  1. You abandon Yoga because of its inseparable ties to Hindu beliefs and practices
  2. You accept Yoga’s inseparable ties to Hindu beliefs and practices, but use it as a tool to enhance your own spirituality and integrate it with your own religion

What you should not do, however, is expect Yoga to change for you. You need to change for Yoga.

#18

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;39417]Namaste,

Not to reiterate what has already been stated in many threads, but it is impossible to separate Yoga from Hinduism. Even if you choose only to do the asanas, you still can’t escape the fact that the asanas have been created as a means towards the goal of Hinduism: self-realization/union with divine consciousness/liberation from the cycle of rebirth. You also cannot escape the fact that the asanas are based on a particular system of Hindu metaphysics which posits the existence of prana, chakras, nadis which form an intricate energy system of our subtle body. The asanas open up these energy channels and eventually facilitate the rise of Kundalini energy. Nor can you escape the fact that many of the Mudras, Asanas are based on Hindu deities.

So there are two ways of you approaching this

  1. You abandon Yoga because of its inseparable ties to Hindu beliefs and practices
  2. You accept Yoga’s inseparable ties to Hindu beliefs and practices, but use it as a tool to enhance your own spirituality and integrate it with your own religion

What you should not do, however, is expect Yoga to change for you. You need to change for Yoga.[/QUOTE]

But a vegetarian diet could also be developed by a religion and be intended to be a key element of their beliefs, yet someone outside of the religion could take their diet without taking the totality of their religion.

I don’t see why likewise cannot be done with the asanas, regardless of the intent behind their development.

I don’t believe in chakras or kundulini energy or chi or any of the rest–not unless and until they can be proven. I don’t believe in reincarnation and will never integrate that concept into my beliefs.

I started doing “yoga” because it would be good for my health and overall well-being. If I’m not really doing yoga because I reject the totality of yoga, then so be it. I’ll call it whatever I have to call it so as not to offend anyone.

But on the other hand, I still don’t know what yoga is, and I get a different answer every time I ask. You say that Yoga is Hindu and only Hindu, and the other extreme says that I can make it into whatever I want it to be.

#19

Thomas,

Breathe! We are many different people in all shapes, sizes and beliefs. On this forum you will see those like Surya who believe you can’t separate yoga from Hinduism, some who could care less where yoga came from and some who are kind of in the middle. You will get many different answers. You need to figure out which one works best for you. I know Surya Deva and some others disagree with mine and some others understanding that Yoga is not a religion and it is universal in its appeal and reach. It should never be denied to anyone. Regardless. You don’t have to become Hindu to practice yoga and you won’t magically become Hindu if you do. It is up to you and what you want.

Take what you want from yoga. If it is the physical part, then tune out the rest, don’t engage in a mudra or chant OM. Ask your teacher for some time after class to explain these things to you. Often times teachers forget when they have a new student that they may not be familiar with the whole of yoga. It’s not intentional, but if they have a large class, sometimes it is hard to remember.

Core made some very good points about OM. Suhas Tambe, Gordon, and Hubert all offered wonderful insights and explanations. They are all very knowledgeable and kind with there time.

Use your love of yoga to spark some dialogue with your teachers, asking them questions about the aspects of yoga you do not understand.

It can be confusing and even frustrating when you are new to something that you feel so passionate about and have so many questions. Patience is the answer, my friend!

Namaste!

#20

Thomas,

If you feel good doing yoga and are getting benefits from it then go ahead and learn more new things in it. If possible teach others as well who are willing to learn it. After all it all depends on you what you want to and how!

I really liked the way Lotus girl has explained everything in nutshell.