Can't Do A Yoga Squat / Chair Pose

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hi Mukunda / everyone else.

I’ve been trying to do a yoga squat for years without success. I just can’t balance in it.

I’ve uploaded a video of my trying to first do what would be considered a weight lifters squat, followed up by yoga squats.

You can see the video on youtube here: (I would post the link, but it tells me I can’t until I’ve posted 15 messages…help anyone?)

As you can see, I keep collapsing.

For the last few weeks I’ve been trying to do “assisted squats” to help get me in the right direction. I’ve tried grabbing onto stuff and using book to lift my heels: (Again, it tells me I can’t post this link).

With the books I can do a full squat up and down, but I don’t feel like I’m making any progress toward a full squat.

I think it’s related that my chair pose is very awkward, with my but thrown way back and my back bent quite a bit.

I’ve been told by yoga teachers that I have everything from tight hips to tight ankles/ Achilles tendons.

Mukunda, or anyone else in the know, can you suggest what I could do to get into a squat?

If you need more info for a better video, let me know.

Thanks,
Andrew

#2

Hey Andrew,
If you put up your link, one of us can make it live for you.

Cheers,
Nichole

#3

Andrew,

in which direction are you collapsing please?

#4

Andrew, one of the props for this pose is a block. Place it between thighs and press it.

Also, maybe your are squatting to deep for now… do you feel like achilles stretching int he pose? If achilles are too tight that can be difficult not to collapse.

Also, you can try it at the wall so your buttocks touches the wall, so your muscles can acquire memory for the movement.

Video would be helpful…

#5

I’m falling onto my butt/back.

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;39865]Andrew,

in which direction are you collapsing please?[/QUOTE]

#6

Nicole, I sent you a private message with the links. Can you post them please? Thanks.

[QUOTE=Nichole;39864]Hey Andrew,
If you put up your link, one of us can make it live for you.

Cheers,
Nichole[/QUOTE]

#7

I’ve tried putting my back/butt up against a wall. What I find is that I cannot slide down the wall into a squat without my heels lifting off the ground. The only way I can keep the heels grounded is if I back up away from the wall a bit so that my butt only touches it after I start bending.

[QUOTE=CityMonk;39870]

Also, you can try it at the wall so your buttocks touches the wall, so your muscles can acquire memory for the movement.

Video would be helpful…[/QUOTE]

#8

Here you are!
btw, you are free to link now too :slight_smile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7upgmOnOoo and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF4g2QZXxnE

(I was just googling applesauce recipes this morning, so I am going to watch that video of yours too. Thanks!)

#9

Ok. Here we go.

Video one of me unable to squat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7upgmOnOoo

Video two of me doing assisted squats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF4g2QZXxnE

Thanks Nichole.

[QUOTE=Doc Holliday;39860]Hi Mukunda / everyone else.

I’ve been trying to do a yoga squat for years without success. I just can’t balance in it.

I’ve uploaded a video of my trying to first do what would be considered a weight lifters squat, followed up by yoga squats.

You can see the video on youtube here: (I would post the link, but it tells me I can’t until I’ve posted 15 messages…help anyone?)

As you can see, I keep collapsing.

For the last few weeks I’ve been trying to do “assisted squats” to help get me in the right direction. I’ve tried grabbing onto stuff and using book to lift my heels: (Again, it tells me I can’t post this link).

With the books I can do a full squat up and down, but I don’t feel like I’m making any progress toward a full squat.

I think it’s related that my chair pose is very awkward, with my but thrown way back and my back bent quite a bit.

I’ve been told by yoga teachers that I have everything from tight hips to tight ankles/ Achilles tendons.

Mukunda, or anyone else in the know, can you suggest what I could do to get into a squat?

If you need more info for a better video, let me know.

Thanks,
Andrew[/QUOTE]

#10

Hi Andrew,
I tried to reproduce your squat and see the problem on myself. I noticed one difference: angle between foot and leg. In your first video its almost 90 degrees. In this case your center of weight is behind your feet so there is a momentum pushing you backward to the ground. To move a center of gravity forward, you can either make this angle smaller (move knees forward) or push your torso forward. I put little image to show what I mean. So to have angle a1 at 90 degrees, angle a2 has to very low. And vice versa. Maybe try to experiment with those angles doing squat and see how it works? I think feeling where is your center of gravity and being able to control it is important to keep balance.

#11

Hello Andrew,

May I see the following please.

A close shot of feet from the front (legs visible from knees down) and side of your feet in Tasasana.
The same thing in urdhva hastasana.
A shot from the side of Balasana.
A shot from the side of Eka Pada Pawanamuktasana.

#12

I hesitate to reply here because others here have much more expertice in yoga than I, but I can say that in my case I’ve assumed that bone structure is an underlining key to reaching this pose unassisted.

If you feel that your muscles and connective tissue are tight, then maybe they will stretch enough eventually to reach this pose unassisted, but my guess is that you, like me and many others, have a skeleton structure that prevents your shin bone from approaching your forefeet, and this prevents you from squating completely with feet flat on the floor. In my opinion, people shouldn’t force or punish their body into positions that don’t suit their skeletal frame.

Inner Athlete can probably correct me if my assumption is off. His knowledge always amazes me.

Best regards, Gil.
P.S. I’m guessing that in ‘downward dog’ your heels are not on the ground and that maybe be bone structure and not necessarily tight hams and achilles.

#13

I know what you mean, Pawel, and I’m trying to do just that.

The problem is when I reduce the angle, shifting my knees in front of my ankles, my heels always come up off the ground.

[QUOTE=Pawel;39912]Hi Andrew,
I tried to reproduce your squat and see the problem on myself. I noticed one difference: angle between foot and leg. In your first video its almost 90 degrees. In this case your center of weight is behind your feet so there is a momentum pushing you backward to the ground. To move a center of gravity forward, you can either make this angle smaller (move knees forward) or push your torso forward. I put little image to show what I mean. So to have angle a1 at 90 degrees, angle a2 has to very low. And vice versa. Maybe try to experiment with those angles doing squat and see how it works? I think feeling where is your center of gravity and being able to control it is important to keep balance.[/QUOTE]

#14

InnerAthlete

I’ve posted a video with your requested asanas.

I also included something that might help you. I’ve noticed that, looking at pictures of people doing Asian squats, all of their knees are in front of their ankles. When my knees go in front of my ankles, my heels come off the ground. I took a video of me stabilizing my back with a wall and trying to squat. A soon as my knees go forward my heels come up.

Video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXCoGtQ1LtQ

Let me know what your thoughts are.

Thanks,
Andrew

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;39913]Hello Andrew,

May I see the following please.

A close shot of feet from the front (legs visible from knees down) and side of your feet in Tasasana.
The same thing in urdhva hastasana.
A shot from the side of Balasana.
A shot from the side of Eka Pada Pawanamuktasana.[/QUOTE]

#15

I think that Gilyoga has a very good point. Had you considered his thought on it, Doc Holliday?

#16

Gilyoga - Perhaps you are correct, but I frankly don’t like to give up easily or bow to “bodily reality”.

Don’t mean to sound cocky, but I was told I was just genetically big and that I would always be. Now I’m 55 pounds lighter and people tell me I must have good genes.

I was told that my feet were not made for running because they were archless and flat, and that the only way I could run was with motion control shoes and orthodontics.

Last year I ran a marathon barefoot, and my feet have developed a slight arch.

My dad is convinced that he has a bad back. I used to think I inherited it. After eight years of yoga my back is strong, flexible, and as long as I do yoga every morning, it never hurts. May dad does nothing and his back still hurts him.

Perhaps I was genetically designed to be unable to do the yoga squat. Maybe you’re right. But I’m not going to give up trying to do it until I’ve exhausted all possibilities.

I appreciate your insight, but I’ve developed a really stubborn steak when it comes to self improvement.

[QUOTE=gilyoga;39934]I hesitate to reply here because others here have much more expertice in yoga than I, but I can say that in my case I’ve assumed that bone structure is an underlining key to reaching this pose unassisted.

If you feel that your muscles and connective tissue are tight, then maybe they will stretch enough eventually to reach this pose unassisted, but my guess is that you, like me and many others, have a skeleton structure that prevents your shin bone from approaching your forefeet, and this prevents you from squating completely with feet flat on the floor. In my opinion, people shouldn’t force or punish their body into positions that don’t suit their skeletal frame.

Inner Athlete can probably correct me if my assumption is off. His knowledge always amazes me.

Best regards, Gil.
P.S. I’m guessing that in ‘downward dog’ your heels are not on the ground and that maybe be bone structure and not necessarily tight hams and achilles.[/QUOTE]

#17

Hello Andrew,

A few things from what you’ve shared.
First of all, there is a difference between a full squat (what you refer to as an Asian Squat) and Utkatasana (or chair pose). And I believe discussing both in the same breath creates confusion. To do a weight lifters squat spend a few hours with a certified Functional Strength Coach (a personal trainer of a certain ilk).

Second, just as there is a correlation between vertical leap and ankle flexion angle (the angle between the top of the foot and the front of the shin) so too would there be some variance in this pose relative to flexibilities there.

More on this in a moment.

Utkatasana, in order to protect the connective tissue in the knee, is done with the legs together, the inner thighs powerfully wed to one another. I realize this is not universally taught and that such a statement may coerce a side conversation about the whys and wherefores of the feet in this pose. But that is a side conversation and not germane to your OP.

Please continue with the pose with the feet and legs together, unless of course you fall over sideways or become pregnant Additionally, as in all standing poses, there is a profound energy of aspiration in the legs. That energy stems from the connection to (relationship) with the earth - both pragmatically and esoterically. So a continued development (through standing poses) of that nature will help. Ergo tadasana with the legs together, minding the rooting of the toe mounds, inner and outer heels AND the lift in the arches up into the pelvis WITHOUT scrunching the toes into the mat/floor.

One must respect their own body’s physical limitations (which I’ll loosely term “range of motion”) and yet there is an opportunity to move toward that limitation circumnavigating blockages theretofore. To this end, Virasana, Adho Mukha Svanasana, Vira I and II, Vanarasana, Supta Padangusthasana (with the belt near the toes not the heel) are all helpful in lengthening the calf muscles.

In the meantime come in to utkatasana with the legs together. Start from Urdhava Hastasana (with the palms together) and only come down as far as your balance seemingly allows. From their, lift the space from the navel to the pubis upward BUT not inward and keep the tors more erect. Some photos on the internet show some very weird “expressions” of this pose and I caution against following them as I cannot determine from whence they came AND they appear to violate some of the basics we’ve learned about safe and effective asana over the last hundred years or so.

gordon

#18

Thanks for your reply, Gordon.

I’ll try all of your suggestions.

Thanks,
Andrew

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;39959]Hello Andrew,

A few things from what you’ve shared.
First of all, there is a difference between a full squat (what you refer to as an Asian Squat) and Utkatasana (or chair pose). And I believe discussing both in the same breath creates confusion. To do a weight lifters squat spend a few hours with a certified Functional Strength Coach (a personal trainer of a certain ilk).

Second, just as there is a correlation between vertical leap and ankle flexion angle (the angle between the top of the foot and the front of the shin) so too would there be some variance in this pose relative to flexibilities there.

More on this in a moment.

Utkatasana, in order to protect the connective tissue in the knee, is done with the legs together, the inner thighs powerfully wed to one another. I realize this is not universally taught and that such a statement may coerce a side conversation about the whys and wherefores of the feet in this pose. But that is a side conversation and not germane to your OP.

Please continue with the pose with the feet and legs together, unless of course you fall over sideways or become pregnant Additionally, as in all standing poses, there is a profound energy of aspiration in the legs. That energy stems from the connection to (relationship) with the earth - both pragmatically and esoterically. So a continued development (through standing poses) of that nature will help. Ergo tadasana with the legs together, minding the rooting of the toe mounds, inner and outer heels AND the lift in the arches up into the pelvis WITHOUT scrunching the toes into the mat/floor.

One must respect their own body’s physical limitations (which I’ll losely term “range of motion”) and yet there is an opportunity to move toward that limitation circumnavigating blockages theretofore. To this end, Virasana, Adho Mukha Svanasana, Vira I and II, Vanarasana, Supta Padangusthasana (with the belt near the tows not the heel) are all helpful in lengthening the calf muscles.

In the meantime come in to utkatasana with the legs together. Start from Urdhava Hastasana (with the palms together) and only come down as far as your balance seemingly allows. From their, lift the space from the navel to the pubis upward BUT not inward and keep the tors more erect. Some photos on the internet show some very weird “expressions” of this pose and I caution against following them as I cannot determine from whence they came AND they appear to violate some of the basics we’ve learned about safe and effective asana over the last hundred years or so.

gordon[/QUOTE]

#19

Doc Holliday,
Yoga is all about bowing to bodily reality!
what i mean is work with your body not against it, If it doesn’t want to squat why force it to squat? check that everything is lose and limber, and your legs and core are strong enough… and if it still doesnt want to go there i reckon don’t force it to…

[QUOTE=Doc Holliday;39956]Gilyoga - Perhaps you are correct, but I frankly don’t like to give up easily or bow to “bodily reality”.

Don’t mean to sound cocky, but I was told I was just genetically big and that I would always be. Now I’m 55 pounds lighter and people tell me I must have good genes.

I was told that my feet were not made for running because they were archless and flat, and that the only way I could run was with motion control shoes and orthodontics.

Last year I ran a marathon barefoot, and my feet have developed a slight arch.

My dad is convinced that he has a bad back. I used to think I inherited it. After eight years of yoga my back is strong, flexible, and as long as I do yoga every morning, it never hurts. May dad does nothing and his back still hurts him.

Perhaps I was genetically designed to be unable to do the yoga squat. Maybe you’re right. But I’m not going to give up trying to do it until I’ve exhausted all possibilities.

I appreciate your insight, but I’ve developed a really stubborn steak when it comes to self improvement.[/QUOTE]