Christianity And Reincarnation

Spirituality Religion
#1

John 3.3-6

…Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, verily , verily , I say unto thee except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Matthew 9.17
Neither do men put new wine into old wineskins, else the wineskins break, and the wine runs out, and the wineskin perish; but they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.

I know its not the orthodox interpretation, but I’ve always viewed these verses as being about reincarnation. I get the sense that Jesus is talking about individuals here…

#2

…as opposed to the following, which talks about an event that affects everyone.

Matthew 13.40-43
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so shall it be in the end of this age. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who has ears to hear, let him hear.

In these beautiful and powerful verses, I find two things that are particularly interesting.
[ol]
[li]The event takes place “in the end of this age”, apparently with another age to follow.
[/li][li]Jesus knew that many people would not understand his parables, thus the saying “Who has ears to hear, let him hear”.
[/li][/ol]

#3

The devil himself would not dare to call these words of the Lord primitive, stupid, or barbaric. He ignores them, because they do not support his position, and hopes that no one will notice.

#4

Interesting interpretation! I agree with you that Jesus knew many would not understand. Heck, many still don’t. We often times in our reading take such a literal meaning from scriptures. Do you think the bible was meant to be more a collection of stories than to be take so literally? I recently read that many clergy are now teaching this.

Thank you Asuri for posting this thread. Enlightening!

#5

[QUOTE=Asuri;35771]John 3.3-6

?Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, verily , verily , I say unto thee except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

[B]I intrepret this, at this moment in time, to mean . . . one can enter into the supersensual realms through the transformative mystic esoteric practices of internal yoga. For one is reborn, made different so to speak by the internal yoga. it is in the night usually when these things go down…[/B].

Matthew 9.17
Neither do men put new wine into old wineskins, else the wineskins break, and the wine runs out, and the wineskin perish; but they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.

[B]For this one in the context of the chapter I take it to mean that Jesus is explaining to those who ask “why he’s hanging out with “sinners.” He says in St. Matthew verse 13 . . . and I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” [/B]

I know its not the orthodox interpretation, but I’ve always viewed these verses as being about reincarnation. I get the sense that Jesus is talking about individuals here…[/QUOTE]

[B]The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God; for no man can do these miracles that you do, expcept God be with him… St.John 3.2
[/B]

This is a good one here.

#6

It looks like the old Christian church believed in reincarnation. Emperor Justinian and the cardinals thought the belief in reincarnation might diminish their authority. They gave an edict to abolish the belief in reincarnation. Pope Vigilus refused to sign the edict. He was
arrested but escaped from under the escort.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-pope.htm

#7

[QUOTE=oak333;35890]It looks like the old Christian church believed in reincarnation. Emperor Justinian and the cardinals thought the belief in reincarnation might diminish their authority. They gave an edict to abolish the belief in reincarnation. Pope Vigilus refused to sign the edict. He was
arrested but escaped from under the escort.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-pope.htm[/QUOTE]

:cool:

A point I have written numerous times in different ways on this board.

(corruption of the original teachings by the romans inorder to control the people)

Amen brother oak.

#8

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;35879]Interesting interpretation! I agree with you that Jesus knew many would not understand. Heck, many still don’t. We often times in our reading take such a literal meaning from scriptures. Do you think the bible was meant to be more a collection of stories than to be take so literally? I recently read that many clergy are now teaching this.
[/QUOTE]

One has to use discernment in interpreting the Bible. Some parts are literal descriptions of historical events. Sometimes these have no other meaning, but often they are meant to teach a lesson that may not be readily apparent. I was taught that the story of creation is not to be taken literally, although some Christians do take it literally. Jesus often spoke in parables that require interpretation.

This is nothing new, depending on denomination. I was taught by Jesuits and the Sisters of Charity.

#9

None of those verses you cited teach reincarnation. They teach about being born again by being baptized. It’s a renewing of oneself.

There is a concept very similar in Hinduism known as the “twice born” Where everbody is born a shudra(worker), but then later can be born again and become a merchant, warrior or sage. There is also a sacred thread ceremony and a ritual similar to baptism.

There is no proof of reincarnation in the bible. It is not taught anywhere. On the contrary is it taught you only live once. If you want to learn about reincarnation you need to read Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism or Sikhism, which describe it in great detail.

#10

[QUOTE=Asuri;35892]One has to use discernment in interpreting the Bible. Some parts are literal descriptions of historical events. Sometimes these have no other meaning, but often they are meant to teach a lesson that may not be readily apparent. I was taught that the story of creation is not to be taken literally, although some Christians do take it literally. Jesus often spoke in parables that require interpretation.

This is nothing new, depending on denomination. I was taught by Jesuits and the Sisters of Charity.[/QUOTE]

You mean one should read the bible selectively. Reading the parts that they like and ignoring the parts they do not like. Unless you like the Old testimant passages where god kills men, women and children with impunity and thirsts for blood sacrifices.

#11

[QUOTE=Asuri;35874]The devil himself would not dare to call these words of the Lord primitive, stupid, or barbaric. He ignores them, because they do not support his position, and hopes that no one will notice.[/QUOTE]

I think you are in the processing of realising you have been barking up the wrong tree when it comes to religion.

Join Hinduism, the superior religion :smiley: Actually, you are already very much Hindu already. You believe in reincarnation and you have adopted the philosophy of Samkhya-Yoga. Now all you need is the honesty to acknowledge the source Hinduism.

Many peolple I have met on this forum do not realise how much they have drifted away from their original religions and become Hindu. All that remains to be done is admitting it.

#12

Now actual teachings about reincarnation from religions that really teach reincarnation:

Gita:

"Just as the self advances through childhood, youth and old age in its physical body, so it advances to another body after death. The wise person is not confused by this change called death (2,13).

Just as the body casts off worn out clothes and puts on new ones, so the infinite, immortal self casts off worn out bodies and enters into new ones (2,22).

Vedanta:

According to the Hindu sage Adi Shankaracharya, the world - as we ordinarily understand it - is like a dream: fleeting and illusory. To be trapped in samsara is a result of ignorance of the true nature of our existence. It is ignorance (avidya) of one's true self that leads to ego-consciousness, grounding one in desire and a perpetual chain of reincarnation. The idea is intricately linked to action (karma), a concept first recorded in the Upanishads. Every action has a reaction and the force determines one's next incarnation. One is reborn through desire: a person desires to be born because he or she wants to enjoy a body,[69] which can never bring deep, lasting happiness or peace (ānanda). After many births every person becomes dissatisfied and begins to seek higher forms of happiness through spiritual experience. When, after spiritual practice (sādhanā), a person realizes that the true "self" is the immortal soul rather than the body or the ego all desires for the pleasures of the world will vanish since they will seem insipid compared to spiritual ānanda. When all desire has vanished the person will not be born again.[70] When the cycle of rebirth thus comes to an end, a person is said to have attained liberation (moksha).[71] All schools agree this implies the cessation of worldly desires and freedom from the cycle of birth and death, though the exact definition differs. Followers of the Advaita Vedanta school believe they will spend eternity absorbed in the perfect peace and happiness of the realization that all existence is One Brahman of which the soul is part. Dvaita schools perform worship with the goal of spending eternity in a spiritual world or heaven (loka) in the blessed company of the Supreme Being.[72]

#13

:stuck_out_tongue: i think, i read it in some forums

'twins still in mother’s tummy were discussing about their existence.

one of them asked the other “do you think there is life after birth”

the other one after one minute of reflection said "i dono nobody ever came

back"

on this, me thinks, all religions will converge., :razz:

#14

[QUOTE=Asuri;35892]One has to use discernment in interpreting the Bible. Some parts are literal descriptions of historical events. Sometimes these have no other meaning, but often they are meant to teach a lesson that may not be readily apparent. I was taught that the story of creation is not to be taken literally, although some Christians do take it literally. Jesus often spoke in parables that require interpretation.

This is nothing new, depending on denomination. I was taught by Jesuits and the Sisters of Charity.[/QUOTE]

I was taught Reiki by Sisters of Charity Nun!

#15

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;35901]

There is no proof of reincarnation in the bible.

.[/QUOTE]

Well, the report posted before quotes proof of reincarnation in the Bible. Not only one, but many quotes from the Bible: book of revelation, John 10: 33-36
and others.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-pope.htm

#16

Good link, Oak. Thank you for posting it.

#17

None of the quotes in the bible at all talk about reincarnation.

Yes it is true that there were Christian sects that appeared later that believed in reincarnation and Gnosticism. However, the bible itself does not mention anything about reincarnation. It very clearly says that you only live once.

You can ask any Christian authority on whether the bible teaches reincarnation and the answer will be a blatant no.

#18

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;35904]I think you are in the processing of realising you have been barking up the wrong tree when it comes to religion.

Join Hinduism, the superior religion :smiley: Actually, you are already very much Hindu already. You believe in reincarnation and you have adopted the philosophy of Samkhya-Yoga. Now all you need is the honesty to acknowledge the source Hinduism.

Many peolple I have met on this forum do not realise how much they have drifted away from their original religions and become Hindu. All that remains to be done is admitting it

.[/QUOTE]

I like very much the teachings of Paramahansa Yogananda. He successfully strived to show the UNITY of all religions. All religions have the same God.
There are NOT two Gods. Only dogmas might differ.

The lineage of Paramahansa Yogananda is impressive: Sri Yukstewara-
Lahiry Mahasaya-Babaji.

Actually it was Babaji who sent Paramahansa Yogananda in the West to show the UNITY of all religions. Your views markedly differ from the views of Babaji.

A thorough reading of the book Second Coming of Christ by Paramahansa Yogananda will show this in great detail. The book has two volumes, cca 800
pages each. And each and every page is full of depth, and should be studied carefully.

A prayer of Yogananda devotees sounds like: “…we bow before the saints of ALL religions.”

#19

I like the teachings of Paramhansa Yogananda as well. He definitely comes from a very impressive lineage. However, like another of his contemporaries Swami Vivekananda, he went to the West for the purpose of missionary activity. Nobody would have listened to either of them if they went to West to preach Hinduism, so they adopted the strategy of showing the parallels of Hinduism with Christianity and elevating Jesus to the status of an avatar. They went as far as to show that Jesus went to India himself and studied under the tutelage of the Hindu gurus.

Now as I have no intention to convert anybody to Hinduism I can be very honest with you. These Hindus gurus used Christianity as a ploy to get people to accept Hindu teachings. If you do attend the Kriya Yoga group or Self-realization fellowship organization founded by Yoganandaji, you will get more Hinduism than you will get Christianity and the Christian elements will be highly Hinduized.

The original Christianity does not at all teach reincarnation. Its teahings are not at all compatible with Hinduism.

Why did Jesus arrogantly proclaim that he was the way, life and truth and there is no way to heaven except him? No Hindu guru has ever said something so arrogant. Not even Buddha said this.

#20

Namaste,

I thought I would actually post what what official Christian organizations and scholars have to say on these claims of reincarnation in the bible. I found this brilliant article:

http://www.watchman.org/na/new.htm

[i]John 3
In John 3:3, some reincarnationists insist that to be born again must mean a previous birth.

But again, the context demonstrates another meaning. Born physically the first time and spiritually the second, while still living the first birth life (John 3:3-5). Comparing Scripture with Scripture bears out that it is the regeneration brought about by God, the Holy Spirit indwelling a believer (John 14:16-17, 16:5-15; 1 Peter 1:3, 23; 2 Corinthians 5:17).[/i]

As much as I strongly disagree with Christianity and all Abrahamic religions in general, I have to side with what this author is saying as his point is entirely valid. It is certainly dishonest to twist what the original authors said into something that you simply want it to say so it makes you feel good. The same is being done with Yoga, Buddhism, Taoism. The newagers uncritically and dishonestly pick and mix whatever they like, and interpret however they like, simply because it feels good. The OP who claims reincarnation is stated in the bible on the basis of twising some verses in spite of the fact that scholarship disagrees, has also in the past did the same with Hindu concepts from Samkhya-Yoga philosophy, again inspite of the fact that scholarship disagrees. In fact even the core texts disagree.

This is obviously not on.