Confused ;( on HERE AND NOW concept

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#21

From Dakini Teachings, [B]Shravaka’s State of Cessation[/B], is defined as:

In the context of Mahayana or Vajrayana practice, this state is used in a derogatory sense and is renowned as a severe sidetrack from the path of the enlightenment of the buddhas. The mistake comes from regarding meditation practice as being the act of cultivating and fixating on a state in which sensations and thoughts are absent.

When understood correctly, Patanjali’s yoga will be found to agree with this point of view.

Here and Now refers to space and time. If our mental processes involve memories, our mind is occupied with the past and places that are different from where we are in the present. Similarly our minds can be occupied with the future through worrying or planning or imagining. This is a unique ability of the mind, as the senses and the organs of action operate only in the present time. When we are focused on the present, our minds and emotions are fully engaged with our bodies and senses, and with others who happen to experience this moment with us.

Obviously we cannot live each and every moment in the Here and Now. In fact, some of us may actually spend little time focused on the present, because we are so caught up our memories or imaginations, with worrying and planning for the future. Here and Now can be a place of refuge, when we need a break from our daily troubles and worries. Also, Here and Now means being mindful. As we go about our daily activities, we need to be focused and not distracted by things that happened or may happen in other places and times.

As for the self as witness and not as doer, this is a difficult concept and one which need not concern us unduly. It means that the phenomenal self, the “I” or ego that is the agent of all our actions is not the ultimate self that is sought by seekers of enlightenment or liberation. We obviously cannot go about our daily lives as witness and not as doer, but to experience our self as witness is an object (or subject) of yoga.

#22

[QUOTE=core789;31095]

Although , unlearnnig can be just as useful…if not more.So our vantage pt. is not courrpted by beliefs,language, thought structures etc.
…
So we act in the world.We live in the her & now rather than think it.Kashmir shaivists will say that thinking is at the root of human suffering.Try it for one day and you will see how alot of previous baggage that epeople rouitnely carry around all day, the way folk react to others and so on- see how much more stress-free your life is.

[/QUOTE]

That is so true. I lived like that many years ago… and I works real magic… thank you for the reminding me…

But can we afford this luxury when we have “obligations” to others? Just a small action of PLANNING… in order to dinner? I need to get it somehow, take it home, make it eatable…

#23

The simple act of planning a meal takes place in the here and now. At some point the act of planning stops and the act of preparing the meal begins. But are we preparing the meal in the here and now, or thinking about what we have to do tomorrow while we go through the motions?

The notion that we can just live our lives spontaneously without thinking or planning is dangerous. Spontaneity is great in certain circumstances, but we simply cannot live our lives without thinking and planning for the future. We could not practice yoga without thinking and planning. Every asana begins as a mental concept. We have a mental image of the posture, and we know what actions have to occur to get us there. Then we perform the asana. The asana is an object, and it requires action to realize it. We conceive of the asana and perform it in the here and now. The same is true of every objective or purpose we can imagine.

Obligations and service to others is an important concept. A lot of the philosophy of liberation and enlightenment can be thought of as self-centered. Enlightenment and liberation are sought in order to free oneself from suffering. But the great religions take the concept a step further, teaching that enlightenment is not for one’s own benefit, but for the benefit of others.

#24

and we are at the beginning of the circle again…

If I’m m panning in here and now, i’m thinking bout preparing the meal for tomorrow. My mind is not in the present than. My attention is focused of what should I get, how do I clean it, how do I prepare it, whom can I meet on my way, what can I tell them, …endless.

As in the original post I think that Here and Now concept is about amotions. Such as do not [U]worry[/U] about how you will make the meal, but plan it.

#25

I think the ‘planning’ though can sometimes suffer from being orientated around a limited sense of Self.That’s to say that sometimes life can provide for us more what we need rather than what we want( i.e the dictates of the ego) by yeilding to it and letting go rather than trying to control it towards what we think we should be doing( or planning on doing) . Then we just live our life more the way nature intended,from the seat of pure bliss consciousness, with no interest to control etc,where our actions become morally self-regulated and for the bigger or cosmic self,i.e the “I” and everyone or everything else.

That’s to say we can plan without actually conceptualising it or certainly attaching to those conceptualisations. Most people cannot ;the only practical way to do this i know of is with an effective yoga practice which probably will include some form of effective meditation.I’m not totally sure if asana and pranayam on their own can take everyone beyond the Mind and it’s trappings,i.e idea-based conditioining associated with a limited sense of self, which is why i suggest meditation. The techniques found within the ancient tantric texts like the Bharaiva Tantra and all those from the Kashmir Shaiivist traditions, and deep mantra yogas like transcendental meditation can do that.

So i am speculating for somoe people life unfolds as it does according to a higher spiritual intelligence that we have almost kind of put our faith in.That it will serve us best.Because often we think we know what’s best but the ‘we’ bit is the limted sense of self or ego thinking it knows how it’s life should be or work out. Some use prayer which is like one of the higher yogas, beecause it involves a kind of flyiing blind-fold even when the chips appear to be be really poorly stacked in our favour.By relinquishing trying to control sometimes good things happen. So i say for most follk this is probably not practical but there may be some whose lives just play themselves out as the divine flow is working within and outisde of them…But they’ve probably done a little work to get there.You don’t need religion just a spiritual awareness and known methods and techniques designed to cultivate & expand it.

Raise Consciousness.

I think viewing the project of Raising your Consciousness to be more orless synonymous or the same as the project where that of the world is raised; To me that is and was probably an important intellectual milestone for me…The world’s troubles are actually my own, a mere reflection of course.That kiind of thing.

But the projects are the same- helping others is karma yoga of course and is helping yourself.

The best you can do though is probably to work on yourself.That is probably the only best way to raise your own Conscioussness and also and so in turn that of the world or Cosmos.So likely the most effective way to fulfill those obligations to others, whether it’s coooking that evening meal for your partner or whatever is to meet your true natural self and expand it.Then i would say you might be inclined to view someof these things less as chores, as things you must do but just things you do without any rumination or planning.

Almost like the divine (flow) is doing it for you.You’re just watching it play out as best it can by not trying to interfere, plan,conceptualise or control.

Maybe the conceptualisation stops the divine from flowing out fo us. But to say we still need it for very simple tasks like making a cup of tea.I’m still not totally convinced.

Most people do. But some people maybe don’t.

In fact i’m thinking indeed it may well be a corruption of our true self and nature and hinder our spiritual progerss.Like man’s spiritual achilles heel. We have our reason and rationality and discourse but probably alot of the time we it hinders because we tend to live in our heads too much and speak from intellectual ego and so forth.

#26

the best way i know of is to read the texts,ancient mainly and some modern, and practice yoga. the rest is just word-play.

#27

word-play based on concepts, of course.

drop the concepts; let them go and, henceforth ,all that confusion they can create or alot of it ,it is said, should go.

#28

Thank you all

#29

[QUOTE=CityMonk;31347]

If I’m m panning in here and now, i’m thinking bout preparing the meal for tomorrow. My mind is not in the present than. .[/QUOTE]

This is true, the mind is occupied with the future, but if you do not identify with your mind, then “I”, here and now, observe that my mind is occupied with planning for the future, and “I” remain in the present, where planning for tomorrow is taking place.

#30

ok, but when someone experienced, say, divorce thing, and keep talking about it again and again with agitation. The person is still here and now and understand that the mind is occupied with pain, bad memories or whatever…and it happens here and now.

Today missed my turn to mu home - was thinking about something… is this mesup related to here and now concept?

#31

[QUOTE=CityMonk;31863]ok, but when someone experienced, say, divorce thing, and keep talking about it again and again with agitation. The person is still here and now and understand that the mind is occupied with pain, bad memories or whatever…and it happens here and now.
[/QUOTE]

I think you’re right about the Here and Now concept being related to emotions. If you’re planning a meal, that’s not an emotional thing. It can be done calmly, you can stay centered and maintain that distinction between “I” and mind. But when you’re caught up in some kind of emotional issue, it’s harder to stay calm and centered. The self identifies with the swirl of emotions and experiences the pain, even though the hurtful act happened in a different place and time. A person centered in present time is better able to think about unpleasant things without re-living the pain and getting agitated.

Today missed my turn to mu home - was thinking about something… is this mesup related to here and now concept?

I suppose that is related to the mindfulness aspect. Sometimes it’s no big deal, but other times it might be a big deal. Say, for example, if you crashed your car because your mind was occupied elsewhere. Or maybe it’s ok if it only happens once in a while, but if you do it all the time, that’s different.

#32

Unknowingly, in most of the discussion, a very advanced concept of ‘here & now’ is being forced into daily material context. When we have not walked the hard walk and not changed in the process our awareness remains lead-footed. Then many subtle concepts do look absurd.

Thoughts are formed from sense impulses that are input linearly. Since one thought ‘follows’ another it creates a sense of Time. Each thought has a spatial context that creates a sense of space. In the metamorphosis that spiritual practices bring about, a Yogi acquires ability to suspend thinking AT WILL to have direct perception that is not colored by mind’s baggage. In that state, when thinking is suspended, time and space become non-entities. That specific state, absolutely under control of a Yogi, is ‘here and now’, devoid of space-time constraints of relativity.

Spriritual journey puts each of us travellers at respective level of awareness befitting our sadhana. From where we see the world and the way we see it, the destinations yet to come always look unreachable and beyond comprehension. The other alternative is to keep walking.

#33

Thank you all.

Some of you are trying to help, thought bring even more confusion. :slight_smile:

My question is :

  1. Is Here and Now relates mainly to emotions and if you will attachments
  2. Is the act of planning takes us away from HERE and NOW?

Thanks