[QUOTE=MindNinja;56663]It is common knowledge Shri Mataji learnt her trade from a Master Conman - Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh OSHO , it is well documented including several photos of her attending talks and meetings with Osho. Note too - she attacks Osho now, as she wants all the limelight on herself. [/QUOTE]Osho and Shri Mataji
We are living in 21 century. We are not cooking with wood.
In 21 century it is not possible to get results with old methods.
We are living in the 21st century, but our body and minds are the same as they were 5000 years ago, as they were 10,000 years ago, as they were 100,000 years ago. The science of Yoga applies to all humans no matter what time period you are in.
You have vrittis, the humans 5000 years ago had vrittis. In order to realise the atman just as the humans 5000 years ago had to clear away their vrittis to leave a pure mind without vrittis which then reflects the true nature of anything it is put on, likewise so will you. How is that done? through discrimination.
When your consciousness becomes finer and finer this discrimination power comes naturally. You can detect every subtle difference. But like I said you cannot even detect that your guru is unheathily obese. You cannot detect very gross difference, forget about very subtle difference 
The truth is people of your kind live in a fantasy that you are self-realised and prefer this fantasy over reality. You convince yourself your in connection with the atman and that your method gives you fast enlightenment - and what do you need to confirm that? A cool breeze. And that is enough. But as much as you can fool yourself, you can’t fool nature. Nature knows exactly where you are at, and it is nowhere where you think you are. Like I said you are a dying soul. There is no hope for you. You are so brainwashed those vrittis have solidified in your mind and they will remain with you even in you next life. RIP
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56669]We are living in the 21st century, but our body and minds are the same as they were 5000 years ago, as they were 10,000 years ago, as they were 100,000 years ago. [/QUOTE]In this way you are denying Evolution.
Shri Rama, Shri Krishna and Jesus came to establish different qualities within us and to support our evolution. [B]Shri Mataji came to open Sahasrara chakra.[/B]
Nope, evolutionists do not at all support the garbage that SY teaches that each teacher came and opened up a chakra one by one and Shri Mata Ji opened the last one. According to evolutionists modern humans emerged approx 250,000 years and attained a modern human body. Even if they are wrong about 250,000 years ago and it is far older, they are right that humans have not changed anatomically since. We know this through fossil records. The oldest human fossils have the same brain capacity as humans in the 21st century.
Do you realise how many people are reading this thread right now, reading the garbage you are writing and turning against SY. You are making the worst case for SY you can possibly make, which includes posting pictures of a fat jesus to justify your unheathly fat guru
Seeker 33,
[B]See my post above, can you not answer those simple questions? [/B]
Tell me also why are Shri Mataji’s speeches carefully edited or overdubbed to cover up her severe flatulence? It is well known from ex devotees and alsopeople that have interviewed her she has a severe flatulence problem and does ‘rude smells’ very frequently whilst not apologising or excusing herself once, she carries on as if nothing has happened.
Seeker 33,
You are in a Cult and clearly very much in denial, that much is excusable but seriously look at the links against Sahaja Yoga in first post on this thread (then do a search for others), try as hard as it may be to look at it with an open mind. If you were not in Sahaja Yoga and someone showed you all the material by SY official sources, and all the material against them - believe me you would never ever dream of joining Sahaja Yoga. That is why the movement is very small, anyone outside it that objectively looks at it would never dream of joining it in a million years.
Look carefully at the parallels between your Cult & other Cults , here are just a few :
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The so called proofs - spiritual energy, the cool breeze, etc. Many other Cults have exactly the same - Scientology ‘highs’ from auditing, Mormonism - burning in the bosom when you pray to ask if it’s true, etc, etc.
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The leader completely unable to verify their claims and making all manner of excuses not to be independtly tested and evaluated. Critics and the Sceptic, and Science community especially in India have repeatedly asked to test Shri Mataji since the 1980’s, she has refused every time making all manner of excuses, even at times saying she would have no problem accepting then refusing to do so. Sathya Sai Baba, etc has done exactly the same. People like Sathya Sai Baba, Shri Mataji, etc know fine well they are complete charlatans and fakes, and would never risk getting completely exposed under test conditions. If what they claim to be able to do is genuine, it would be undeniable and proven true in tests.
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The leader tells untruths about their background, or completely changes undeniable evidence e.g. L. Ron Hubbard (Scientology) was heavily involved in the Occult, Aleister Crowley, etc incl. practicing ritual magick - the cover story later by the Scientolgists he was working as a secret agent and only involved in the occult under cover to break up the group - ha ha!
Shri Mataji studied under people like Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh) & attended numerous meetings learned a lot from such people on spirituality, and more importantly gave her a eureka moment - ‘I can run a cult too, become a leader & make some money from this racket’. The cover story from Sahaja Yoga now - Osho bowed to her and declared her a great one and predicted the wonders in enlightenment she would bring to people, eh actually he never ever did that’s why you have only Shri Mataji claiming this, and in thousands of interviews and written works - he never mentioned Shri Mataji or the wonders this great spiritual master would bring. Osho was a Master Conman Phd level, Shri Mataji studied with some of the best before making her move to start a Cult.
- Everything against the movement or the leader is absolutely denied or flat out ignored, even when the proof is absolutely overwhelming. It can be proven Shri Mataji’s claims and her background just like L. Ron Hubbards are full of untruths and fabrications. Those in the movement are in complete denial and the majority stay in the movement, they are so indoctrinated by the Cult. Go look at the mountain of evidence against Scientology, no wonder at Scientology orgs they block free Internet access you cannot search for anti Scientolgy sites or info.
The fact you are caught up in a Cult doesn’t mean you have to be for ther rest of your life.
The cover story from Sahaja Yoga now - Osho bowed to her and declared her a great one and predicted the wonders in enlightenment she would bring to people
I find this hilarious. From what I know, read and seen of Osho, Osho would never do that. He did not have a devotional attitude - he was anti god/s. He never mentioned her anywhere, because she was just his insigificant devotee at the time, amongst other devotees. She learned how to manage a cult from him, then left and started her small group and was able to turn her small group into a larger group. She has a very wealthy husband. Did Osho ever even hear about her in his day?
Surya,
"Obesity is a disease, and your guru is very obese that it compromises her mobility. "
That she is obese has nothing to do with the matter. It is simply that she is unconscious. Being obese has nothing at all to do with one’s inner awareness, there are many masters who were overweight.
Surya,
"And to get to the atman and hence ultimate truth requires ridding yourself of all vrittis in the mind. "
One may be far too hypnotized by those passages in the yoga sutras. If one is truly in tune one’s original nature, then even if a million thoughts are there, it makes no difference to one’s communion. Perhaps to bring the mind to a stillness may just give you a glimpse into something beyond mind - but one has to return to the world, with all it’s shapes and forms, and live an ordinary life. If one were to remain in a thoughtless state, then one is just falling into useless passivity. An awakened consciousness is active, tremendously active, but there are very few who are capable of being involved in action without becoming entangled in action. Because of this, so many traditions from the beginning have been saying that you have to stop all your thoughts, bring the mind to a stillness - not realizing that stillness is not separate from activity. One master, Hakuin, has said that meditation in activity far surpasses meditation in stillness, because that is the true stillness. Even if you are involved in a wild storm, one can remain totally balanced and grounded, even if millions of ripples start surfacing - the mirror shines clear and bright.
I answered my own question. He did know her, and this is what he said about her:
Lecture Number 6 of Rajneesh’s book The Goose Is Out states:
There are so many fools in the world that any Indian can find disciples. It is not a problem at all. Just your being Indian is enough and you are a guru. I have seen such things happening before my eyes.
One of my disciples Nirmala Srivastava has now become a great spiritual leader. Now her name is long: Her Holiness Jagatjanani - “The mother of the whole world” - Mataji Nirmalaji Srivastavaji. She was once travelling with me in a car and I passed by Muktananda’s ashram. The people staying in Muktananda’s ashram invited me to be there for a five-minute stay just to take a cup of tea, And it was a long journey so I said “There is no harm in it” Anyway I love a cup of tea. So I stayed for five minutes.
Nirmala saw Muktananda. She could not believe that this stupid-looking man - disgusting more or less a buffoon - had become a great spiritual leader.
After the tea when we re-entered the car she said, “If this man can become a spiritual leader, then why can’t I?”
I said “You can”, And she became one.
There is one man here from Australia who asked me a question, because now she is in Australia doing great spiritual work. He asked me: “Once in a while you talk about a woman Rabiya el- Adawiyat. What do you think about Mataji Nirmala Deviji? Is she also of the same category as Rabiya el-Adawiya?” The Man is here.
I know her perfectly well, for ten years she was my student,. There is nothing in it, no spirituality, no meditativeness but she got the idea from Muktananda. And it is not the only case.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56889]Surya,
"Obesity is a disease, and your guru is very obese that it compromises her mobility. "
That she is obese has nothing to do with the matter. It is simply that she is unconscious. Being obese has nothing at all to do with one’s inner awareness, there are many masters who were overweight.[/QUOTE]
I would certainly not accept a master who is unheathily obese. If they cannot even master their own health, then what will they teach me. Shri Mataji is so obese she sinks into her chair and has mobility problems. I understand her problems have worsened now.
Whoever you accept as your master should show they are masters of their body and mind, because that is what you are going to them to learn.
Seeker,
If you find that your being is fulfilled through Sahaja Yoga, then remain with it. But one should be completely straightforward with oneself and ask whether one is truly fulfilled, or whether one simply believes that one is fulfilled. For this, there is no other answer except through witnessing yourself directly in daily living, seeing how you are from moment to moment. If you have enough courage, then you will see yourself as you are without any veils or decorations, without censorship, without clinging to a sense of identity. One’s attachment to one’s identity is one of the greatest barriers for seeing oneself clearly. If you look and find that you are still unfulfilled - then obviously you are not doing something right. Those who are condemning you for being a part of Sahaja Yoga should be ignored, because they do not even realize that their condemnations is only strengthening your attachment to Sahaja Yoga. The more they condemn, the more one clings in defensiveness. Don’t be concerned with them, or anybody else. Just take a few moments and look clearly into your own situation, and perhaps some insight into the matter shall arise.
One may be far too hypnotized by those passages in the yoga sutras. If one is truly in tune one’s original nature, then even if a million thoughts are there, it makes no difference to one’s communion. Perhaps to bring the mind to a stillness may just give you a glimpse into something beyond mind - but one has to return to the world, with all it’s shapes and forms, and live an ordinary life. If one were to remain in a thoughtless state, then one is just falling into useless passivity.
You don’t need thought to live your life. In fact it is when you are not thinking and doing and living, that you live your life. If your mind was completely silent. You would have none of that mental noise. Just a crystal clear consciousness revealing the essential nature of everything. I have had moments when I have much less thought, and those moments are the ones when I am in my alive state.
Those who are condemning you for being a part of Sahaja Yoga should be ignored, because they do not even realize that their condemnations is only strengthening your attachment to Sahaja Yoga. The more they condemn, the more one clings in defensiveness. Don’t be concerned with them, or anybody else. Just take a few moments and look clearly into your own situation, and perhaps some insight into the matter shall arise.
We will also be condemning you when we hear about your cult. You’re too small time right now for us to care
“I would certainly not accept a master who is unheathily obese. If they cannot even master their own health, then what will they teach me.”
That is one’s own egotism. The nature of wisdom is such, that it has very little to do with physical conditions. Whether obese or not, if one is living out of unawareness, then one is basically unhealthy. Ramana Maharishi towards the end of his life was even more unhealthy than most obese people. He could barely walk properly or raise his head. He used to walk with a limp head hanging down. But inwardly, he was as free, sane, healthy, and liberated as ever. When asked about how it was possible for him to remain so contented and yet with such a terrible physical condition, he simply replied, “You put far too much importance on the body”.
Yes, the founder of Sahaja Yoga is a fatass. But that is not the reason why she is asleep.
Surya,
I am not interested in starting any cult. If even one person comes to me with a sincere desire for Truth, then I would much rather serve him than thousands of blind followers who have no interest in their own being.
Surya,
“You don’t need thought to live your life. In fact it is when you are not thinking and doing and living, that you live your life. If your mind was completely silent”
Even if thousands of thoughts arise, and they will - it is impossible to live an ordinary life without thought. Even now, when you are reading this, you need to apply the functions of your logic and thinking. The fact is that where there is silence - the functions of the mind are not repressed, on the contrary they are enhanced. And if thoughts do arise, then it is not a source of disturbance at all. This is true liberation, which rejects nothing at all - one can remain in the mind and yet not of the mind. Things can come and go on their way, they have to - that is the very nature of things. If one wants to put an end to the flux of the universe, even killing oneself will not be of any help. Thought is just as much a part of the flux of things as anything else. But silence has nothing to do with thinking or not-thinking, it is something which is of an entirely different nature.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56896]“I would certainly not accept a master who is unheathily obese. If they cannot even master their own health, then what will they teach me.”
That is one’s own egotism. The nature of wisdom is such, that it has very little to do with physical conditions. Whether obese or not, if one is living out of unawareness, then one is basically unhealthy. Ramana Maharishi towards the end of his life was even more unhealthy than most obese people. He could barely walk properly or raise his head. He used to walk with a limp head hanging down. But inwardly, he was as free, sane, healthy, and liberated as ever. When asked about how it was possible for him to remain so contented and yet with such a terrible physical condition, he simply replied, “You put far too much importance on the body”. [/quote]
This this is why I do not accept Ramana Maharishi as a master, and he does not make my list Somebody who does not look after their body, but rather lives in their consciousness instead, is not a very good example.
Take away the mysticification from enlightenment and you realise all that spirituality is, is being in perfect health, balance and beingness. If you are only healthy in your mind, but unhealthy in your body, you are not in perfect health.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56897]Surya,
I am not interested in starting any cult. If even one person comes to me with a sincere desire for Truth, then I would much rather serve him than thousands of blind followers who have no interest in their own being.[/QUOTE]
If you are not interested in starting a cult then why do you record yourself giving discourses on youtube and then advertise them on forums on the internet? If you are not interested in starting cult, then why do you have a small band of members that come to see you speak in an apartment in Montreal? If you are not interested in starting a cult, then why have you told me that you have decided to postpone further spiritual training, to teach.
You say one thing, but your actions are saying another
Even if thousands of thoughts arise, and they will
If there are thoughts still arising it means you have unresolved samkaras - the origin of your thoughts - which means your consciousness still has vrittis, and thus you have not achieived chit vritti nirodha - hence you are not enlightened.
So it seems you think as much as we lesser mortals do oh great one