“In other words, the goal of Yoga is to end all the modiciations of consciousness”
If you want to live a life without thoughts, then you may as well hang yourself. Even Patanjali, to write his Yoga Sutras, needed thought. He must either be deceiving you, or you must be misunderstanding him.
“If you are getting thousands of thoughts in your consciousness field, you are not enlightened”
Then every master who has ever spoken or written a word must have not come to their enlightenment. All of the scriptures that you have been fond of, as well as the initiations of all the traditions, have been transmitted out of the organization of thought. Without thought you would not even be capable of sitting for meditation in the first place, eating your food, or just doing something as simple as walking from Point A to point B.
The problem is not thought, impressions, or the working of the mind - the problem is clinging to the activity of the mind. It is because one has been unable to experience the activity of the mind without becoming a slave to it, that all of this nonsense has arisen about stopping all thoughts. If just a single thought is enough to disturb your liberation, then your liberation is very fragile.
Yes, it is relative in that it is just a useful idea. As far as I am concerned, even enlightenment is another idea that is to be emptied out, it is more or less meaningless. Many masters have tried to define it and have given it their own definition, but I do not see that it is something that can be defined. But it is a word which is necessary. What has been called “enlightenment” has different depths and intensities - from just having a glimpse into one’s true nature - which is not a total transformation, to different kinds of integration with one’s true nature.
Why overcomplicate it. Yoga is about upgrading consciousness, reaching higher and higher levels. Some of those who have received higher levels than us we regard as masters and they teach us to reach higher levels. At higher levels you have better control over your own mind and body system, so you are in a position to serve humanity better. These people are recognised as distinguished by their high character and sharp and focussed minds. But does this mean they have reached the goal of Yoga?
That one can attain “full mastery” over one’s mind and body is an illusion. Because one is not in control of the source of one’s existence.
Is it really? I have control over my body right now. I operate it with my will. I decide for my body. If I want my body to start walking left, it walks left. If I want it to start walking right, it goes right. If I want to breathe deep, I breath deep. If I want to breathe shallow, I breath shallow. The more aware I am the more control I gain of my body. It is true and proven in scientific studies that the higher the level of consciousness, the more one can control the body.
What we lack control of is our mind. The mind is driven by its own tendencies and we feel powerless to control what it is doing. We can have some control on the conscious mind, but we have no control on the subconscious and unconscious mind. However, it is proven again in scientific studies that at higher levels of consciousness, the more we can control the mind.
In fact Yoga is absolutely affirmative that the entire continuum of prakriti from mind to matter can come under our control. Patanjali even dedicates an entire chapter to what happens when we attain such high levels of consciousness that we have perfect control and can command prakriti to do whatever we wish. We reverse the situation from prakriti controlling us, to us controlling prakriti.
If you want to live a life without thoughts, then you may as well hang yourself. Even Patanjali, to write his Yoga Sutras, needed thought. He must either be deceiving you, or you must be misunderstanding him.
Would it be safe to say you are attached to thoughts then? As you seem to suggest you would be dead without them. But Patanjali is saying the opposite, you will be more alive without them. If you are thinking about something you will always be either in the past or in the future, but not in the present. It is unnecessary mental noise.
Note the difference between thinking and willing. I am not thinking when I order my body to go left or right. I am willing it to happen. Similarly, Patanjali willed the Yoga sutras. He did not think about it. He said, I want to write sutras on Yoga, and then he ordered his mind-body system into the act of writing the sutras.
He did not have to think about it. He wrote clearly, concisely and assertively. He was instructing, not thinking.
You can live your life without a single thought. That is the ideal life, not a single thought, just constant action. In order to do this you need your senses and your mind under your control.
“At higher levels you have better control over your own mind and body system”
At the “higher levels”, one should first ask whether it is necessary to control one’s mind and body.
" I have control over my body right now. I operate it with my will."
Is that really the case ? Do you operate the atoms which make the body, or the subatomic particles which make the atoms of the body ? Are you even in control of something as simple as how your blood flows through your veins ? What of the need to eat food, or the need to drink water ? Or if you cut a peice of hair, are you in control of whether it grows back or not ? If you are in control of the aging process of your cells, then why haven’t you averted death completely ? No yogi so far has managed to avoid physical death. Even more so, all of the conditions which have made life on Earth possible have much to do with the energy that travels to the Earth from the Sun. Are you in control of the Sun, or how the Earth revolves around the Sun ?
All of one’s ideas of being the one who is in control are entirely hallucinations. It implies that there is an ego which is in control. That is the problem with all of those claims that the yogi attains complete control over his mind and body - it implies that you can force everything into your ego, that your ego can have absolute power. It is fundamentally nothing more than an ego trip. Even if a yogi leaves the body at will, it is only because there are so many other forces which are supporting such a thing. Because you are capable of using certain tools which nature has given you - one is entertaining oneself with this idea that you are in control. Yes, now if you want, you are in control of moving your left hand. But if we want, we can cut it off and test your theory.
The kind of liberation which awakened ones have come into contact have nothing to do with transcending nature, and everything to do with being in tune with nature.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56893]Seeker,
If you find that your being is fulfilled through Sahaja Yoga, then remain with it. But one should be completely straightforward with oneself and ask whether one is truly fulfilled, or whether one simply believes that one is fulfilled.[B] For this, there is no other answer except through witnessing yourself directly in daily living, seeing how you are from moment to moment.[/B] If you have enough courage, then you will see yourself as you are without any veils or decorations, without censorship, without clinging to a sense of identity. [/QUOTE]Amir,
Ocean has enormous amount of water but some people are coming only with their small cups. Divine force is fully aware of capability of each one of us and will give us amount that we can carry.
[B]Sahaja yoga is not cult, alternative medicine or method. SY is living process promised by all incarnations.[/B]
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56916]“At higher levels you have better control over your own mind and body system”
At the “higher levels”, one should first ask whether it is necessary to control one’s mind and body. [/quote]
If you do not control your mind and body, then you will simply leave it to its tendencies. It is better it is in your control, than not. Even at higher levels of consciousness you are going to have control it. At higher levels you just have more control of your mind-body system.
Nothing is going to happen, unless you will it. Your body will not go on auto pilot and go shopping for you 
Is that really the case ? Do you operate the atoms which make the body, or the subatomic particles which make the atoms of the body ? Are you even in control of something as simple as how your blood flows through your veins ? What of the need to eat food, or the need to drink water ? Or if you cut a peice of hair, are you in control of whether it grows back or not ? If you are in control of the aging process of your cells, then why haven’t you averted death completely ? No yogi so far has managed to avoid physical death. Even more so, all of the conditions which have made life on Earth possible have much to do with the energy that travels to the Earth from the Sun. Are you in control of the Sun, or how the Earth revolves around the Sun ?
Nope, I am not in control of the atoms and subatomic particles. Blood flowing through my vein. Aging. The orbit of the solar system, etc. These are all processes that operate by their own tendencies. However, it is already proven that at higher levels of consciousness, things that were erstwhile outside of our control, come under our control. Involuntary body processes such as regulating the temperature of your body, heartbeat can be controlled at higher levels of consciousness. In a recent series of studies conducted by a team of Indian scientists it was shown how the yogi Prahlad Jani was able to control his urine, absorb the urine into his body and transform it. He did not eat or drink, and was kept in a lab under controlled conditions and monitor for 14 days. He claimed he was able to transform the prana into chemical energy for his body.
A century of thousands of studies in modern science as recent as 2000’s have also proven that mind has power over matter. Matter responds to mind. The mind gives the intention and matter responds.
Yoga is absolutely affirmative on the matter the entire continuum of mind-matter can come under our control. Samkhya is absolutely affirmative that the purusha can control any aspect of prakriti. Quantum physics is affirmative today that there is not a single part of this universe that this is not connected at the fundamental level. If we can control gross matter, we can control subtle matter.
[QUOTE=MindNinja;56663]Seeker33,
Does Shri Mataji ever claim to have mastered physical Yoga or been very physically active in life? [/QUOTE]Incarnations does not need yoga, because they are complete. Only we need yoga, because we need to continue our evolution.
[B]?Normally I don?t tell about Myself but today he exposed me. As soon as I came I had to tell because it?s not tactful. It?s not tactful to say anything. It?s better that you discover Me than I tell you because Christ was crucified, everybody was tortured. I do not want to hamper My work because it makes no difference by telling you anything before Realization. It?s better to tell you after Realization that I am the Holy Ghost ? no doubt. I am the one about which Christ has talked.
I have told them. I had never said this on from a platform and I told. They have been telling Me, ?Mother, You must say that once.? I said, ?In America I?ll declare it.? So today I declare that: ?I am the Holy Ghost. I am the Holy Spirit who has incarnated on this Earth for your realization.? ?[/B]
Shri Mataji
New York, USA 30 September 1980
Does your incarnation need dieting though
Your incarnation sure likes to tell other people she is an incarnation. She sure likes to publically shout it in the name she adopts, mother of the universe, great and respected goddess" Is there anything else we should add to this string to add to her greatness?
Do you know what they say about people who shout their own greatness?
Seeker 33,
You are so completely in denial you cannot even answer any points about your Cult.
[B]Shri Mataji has repeatedly been asked to demonstrate her powers , cool breeze etc under test conditions since the 1980’s [/B]- she has refused for aound 30 years to undertake any such tests offering all manner of excuses.
[B]Shri Mataji is grossly overweight[/B], her followers money is going via food and her expensive tastes right into her stomach. She has a well known severe flatulence problem also.
[B]Sahaja Yoga Cult is tiny, yet Shri Mataji is the Holy Ghost Jesus talked of and the great saviour and leading spiritual figure for today.[/B] [B]If she was what she claimed shouldn’t she be reaching out to more people? [/B] [Scientolgy has around 500,000 members Worldwide easily provable through census figures such as U.S. around 300,000; yet claims 12 million or so memmbers; with around only 500,000 people they can clear the planet which takes hundreds of thousands of auditing and training hours each person - to reach 7 billion people almost! Good luck and lots of it.]
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56920]Does your incarnation need dieting though
Your incarnation sure likes to tell other people she is an incarnation. She sure likes to publically shout it in the name she adopts, mother of the universe, great and respected goddess" Is there anything else we should add to this string to add to her greatness?
Do you know what they say about people who shout their own greatness?[/QUOTE]Incarnations are not afraid from The Truth. [B]Jesus as well:[/B]
John 10:36
[B]King James Bible
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?[/B]
[QUOTE=MindNinja;56922][B]Shri Mataji has repeatedly been asked to demonstrate her powers , cool breeze etc under test conditions since the 1980’s [/B]- she has refused for aound 30 years to undertake any such tests offering all manner of excuses.
[B]Shri Mataji is grossly overweight[/B], her followers money is going via food and her expensive tastes right into her stomach. She has a well known severe flatulence problem also.
[B]Sahaja Yoga Cult is tiny, yet Shri Mataji is the Holy Ghost Jesus talked of and the great saviour and leading spiritual figure for today.[/B] [B]If she was what she claimed shouldn’t she be reaching out to more people? [/B] [/QUOTE]
Miracle Photographs
Why the powers should be demonstrate. [B]Only weak person will try to show off.[/B]
Incarnations using their body to help their disciples. That?s why they need bigger body to accumulate more energy.
SY started only 41 years ago. Wait and watch. The name of Shri Mataji will be written with golden letters in the history of humanity.
Haha, I have nothing more to say.
but sometimes i feel photoshop can do a miracle too
It’s not photoshop, it’s just pictures with a combination of low light, slow shutter speed, it produces these effects. If seeker went to his local photography club or society with these pictures claiming miracles, they would laugh at him.
One of my fav quotes from Einstein, “Human stupidity is infinite” 
Surya,
“If you do not control your mind and body, then you will simply leave it to its tendencies”
No matter what you do, the mind is going to function according to it’s tendencies. Even if you control it and beat it in a million and one different ways, it is still going to work according to it’s tendencies. If you destroy old tendencies they will just be replaced with new tendencies. And there is no problem in it functioning according to it’s tendencies, that is not the source of where the problems are created. If it is a case of bringing an end to the tendencies of the mind, even eternities will not be of any help. If you are going to try and uproot every imperfection and weed, then you are in for an endless struggle which is simply fruitless. In coming to one’s awakening, the whole scope of one’s humanity is still there - with all it’s so called imperfections and all. It is just a matter of whether you are aware of your own being or unaware, that is the only difference between a Buddha and an “ordinary” person. The ordinary person is walking in constant friction against the current, a Buddha is always in living communion with the current.
The problem is not the changes that happen in the mind, it comes from elsewhere. It is simply that once one has become identified with whatever arises in one’s experience, one loses all clarity, one’s vision becomes distorted. For a being who is living in communion with his true nature, there is not a trace of control which is involved in it, it is something which is entirely choiceless. This choiceless way of being is the very heart of all the spiritual sciences. That is why time and time again it has been spoken of surrender. Certainly effort is needed, enormous energy is needed to channel one’s attention to come to know oneself, through and through. That involves control. But all effort is just to prepare the space for the effortless, all methods are just a way of entry into the methodless. In yoga, it has been called Sahaja Samadhi, once your samadhi becomes absolutely natural - as natural as one’s own breath or the blood flowing through one’s veins. Do something or do nothing - it is there, inescapable.
Once, a disciple came to see master Nansen and asked, “What is the Way?”
The master said, “Ordinary Mind is the Way”.
“Shall I try to seek for it?” said the disciple.
The master said, “Move towards it, and it moves away”.
“Then how can I attain to a knowledge of it?”, asked the disciple.
The master said, “The Way is not a matter of knowing or not-knowing. Knowing is delusion, not-knowing is blank consciousness. When you have really arrived to the Way beyond a doubt, one will find that it is as vast and boundless as space.”
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56928]It’s not photoshop, it’s just pictures with a combination of low light, slow shutter speed, it produces these effects. If seeker went to his local photography club or society with these pictures claiming miracles, they would laugh at him.
One of my fav quotes from Einstein, “Human stupidity is infinite” :D[/QUOTE]
then, the triangle is real. i agree “Human stupidity is infinite”.
No matter what you do, the mind is going to function according to it’s tendencies. Even if you control it and beat it in a million and one different ways, it is still going to work according to it’s tendencies. If you destroy old tendencies they will just be replaced with new tendencies. And there is no problem in it functioning according to it’s tendencies, that is not the source of where the problems are created. If it is a case of bringing an end to the tendencies of the mind, even eternities will not be of any help. If you are going to try and uproot every imperfection and weed, then you are in for an endless struggle which is simply fruitless.
Then you do not believe in the goal of Yoga. The goal of Yoga is to cease all of the minds vrittis leading to the end of its tendencies. It is resolving the gunas back to their equilbrium leading to the end of the mind. The the fact that the gunas are outside of balance is causing the vrittis, the vrittis are causing the tendencies of the mind. Silence the vrittis, and you silence your mind. Silence the mind, and you have nothing but pure consciousness remaining.
It sounds like you are attached to your vrittis and are finding excuses to hold onto them. In which case you are not trying to cease them. Thus you are doing the opposite of Yoga Well at least we can clear now that you are not enlightened. You’re just like us mere mortals you have attachments to your thoughts, you have high thought activity, and your thoughts and actions do not match up - and you post on internet forums having pointless debates