[QUOTE=Sahasrara;57000]For a change why can’t we leave SY and proceed few posts on “Art of Living” by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar? 
[/QUOTE]With SY you can open Sahasrara.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56887]I find this hilarious. From what I know, read and seen of Osho, Osho would never do that. He did not have a devotional attitude - he was anti god/s. He never mentioned her anywhere, because she was just his insigificant devotee at the time, amongst other devotees. She learned how to manage a cult from him, then left and started her small group and was able to turn her small group into a larger group. She has a very wealthy husband. Did Osho ever even hear about her in his day?[/QUOTE]
Indeed, Osho was his own man. He was the perfect rebel. And I don’t think he deliberately intend to open a cult. Just as he said in one of his interviews with an American journalist, people ‘came’ to him, and he let them do whetever they want…this is probably why after his death, his meditation methods became kind of hokey, as people went on twisting those methods…
[QUOTE=Seeker33;57008]With SY you can open Sahasrara.[/QUOTE]
Let it be open, but give chance to others also and try to understand others too. Let us not get too defensive or offensive and stuck with only one.
Please provide ASAP certification from scientists that SY is fake.
Please provide certification from your doctor that you are actually sane 
I am talking about independent scientists here, not SY cult member scientists who fall at and kiss the feet of Shri Mataji
Anyway, she’s dead now. Nobody, really cares about SY here. SY will eventually die out. I’ve had enough
I read the entire thread, Damn it took me almost an hour and a half to read it. Yet I enjoyed it
Well, lots of wise words have been said. Agree with many things, disagree with same amount.
Seeker33 :lol: how could you go on like this? If that woman is an incarnation, then Amir must be an avatar 
[QUOTE=Sahasrara;57011]Let it be open, but give chance to others also and try to understand others too. Let us not get too defensive or offensive and stuck with only one. :)[/QUOTE]How you can open the door, if you don?t have a key?
“Various terms can be used: souls, purushas, consciousness units, jivatmans, monads, witnesses, observers, knowers.”
Whatever terms and names that can be used, they are all certain to impose limitations. All words and descriptions are just the projections of thought. To define is to limit, and ones true nature is not something that can be defined. Even to call it consciousness is to again impose a limitation upon it - consciousness is a limiting quality. All those people who were speaking of consciousness being the ultimate reality have just been fanatics, clinging to a stream of tradition and philosophy which itself was fanatic. That is where I diverge from others who have been trying to fit everything into the terminology of the philosophy in which they have been programmed. Lao Tzu has said a single statement which is of such enormous insight, that if you see into it, not just intellectually - but as an experience, then it impossible for it not to wipe away all of ones assumptions that one has been formulating up till now. Truth is of that nature - it renders all of ones knowledge irrelevant. He has said that the Tao that can be named is not the Eternal Tao.
Anything that can be said about it, is just pointing towards the Way and nothing else.
“Basically us the conscious beings(purushas) that interact with this world(prakriti)”
Drop both being, drop even non-being, and come to a direct encounter with the inexpressible.
“Samkhya darshana is all based on”
Ah, a thief !
[QUOTE=Seeker33;57020]How you can open the door, if you don’t have a key?
[/QUOTE]
Dear Seeker,
I cannot open with your key. What if I tell that you need to do the following practice for one month continuously (both morning and evening) and (that is it, nothing more) you will become enlightened. Will you follow and believe? If yes, please do so and get back to me after a month.
The only difference is that all cults thrust their dogma to quell the logical abilities of the followers either silently or violently:)
You may choose this path or you can keep doing SY meditation for the whole life time, it is your choice.
The following penance may be one of the other keys 
:
Pre-condition:
You have to memorize Hanuman Chalisa perfectly without any shudder. You need to know the meaning of each and every word clearly. You are already very good in Sanskrit. So, you may get easily Hindi words
You have to memorize Gayatri Mantra perfectly and know the meaning of it clearly.
The Practice:
You need to get up early morning at 4:30 AM and complete your daily calls and sit in lotus pose and keep a Hanuman God in front of you and start chanting Hanuman Chalisa 108 times.
Again in the evening start exactly at 6:30 PM and chant Gayatri Mantra 108 times.
You should practice this for one whole month without any break. If you break one day, you have to start from the beginning
Once you are done, please get back to the forum and post your experience.
Does this sound meaningless? Yes, so also following the SY method to me.
I will prefer doing this, if not 108 times in the morning and evening for a month, but at least 8 times life long, instead of praying Mata ji. Not that she is not an incarnation to you, but definitely not an incarnation to me.
Your key SY is good for you to open the door. If I use your key and try to open, it may not do any good for me
However, my key is available for you to try the alternative and understand what is really opening Sahasrara
Now, let us get the logical conclusion of the above lines. Following SY guidelines to open Sahasrara is as true (false) as following the above guidelines. The actual question is, do I have to blindly believe and keep doing it lifelong, if I do not see any logic in it?
The only difference is that all cults thrust their dogma to quell the logical faculties of the followers, either silently or violently
Surya,
"Sri Sri Ravishankar is not enlightened, but naive, gullible and childish. He finds it very difficult to give spoken interviews, and I saw his performance in his debate with Zakir Naik and it was pitiable. A man who is always trying to smile, clearly has something wrong with him. I have seen his face when he’s not smiling - and it ain’t a pretty sight. "
I agree. The man is far more of a politician than a master. That is one of the reasons why he constantly makes an effort to smile - he wants to project a certain image of being blissful. And I have heard many of his responses to questions - it seems that he is not interested at all in assisting others towards their awakening. He constantly offers sweet words to those who want to hear sweet words. Otherwise, he would not have continued saying things which are just intended to make you feel safe, comfortable, secure - giving consolation to ones ego. Because he knows very well, just being a practical man, that if he were to do such a thing - more than half of his disciples will flee from him. If he were to state things which come a bit closer to reality - then most people are not going to find it appealing because reality has no obligation to fit into your view as to how things should be. Perhaps, such an approach may be useful just as bait so that others may get caught in the hook and go deeper. Even Gautama Buddha used to mold his language according to the people to whom he was speaking - when he was speaking with Hindus he used to use the word “Atman”, even though a central part of his teaching was the opposite - “Anatman”.
But that is not Sri Sri Ravishankars approach, because in the first place he is not interested in bringing others to their awakening, nor is he awakened, he is just interested in building a reputation for himself and the foundation he represents. It is just his profession. Many “masters” are not really “masters”, they are just performing their profession. They are a bit like priests, although they do not have that title or represent an organized religion. The followers who come to the priest come to him because they believe that he has some intimate connection with God, the same is the case with those who come to these “masters”, people believe they are enlightened without a question and that is all that is needed. That is how people like Sri Sri Ravishankar, Shri Mataji, Bhagavan of the Oneness movement, and others - have been successful at obtaining more and more followers. The whole work is just the work of satisfying other people’s ego, and in this way it is not different than the way businesses function in the business world. In fact - what they are doing is just business work, they are just interested in building a reputation for their non-profit organizations - not assisting others towards their liberation.
[QUOTE=Seeker33;57008]With SY you can open Sahasrara.[/QUOTE]
True, agreed.
Do you mean to say that SY is the only way? If yes, can you justify why SY is the only universal key to open Sahasrara and not others?
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57025]Surya,
"Sri Sri Ravishankar is not enlightened, but naive, gullible and childish. He finds it very difficult to give spoken interviews, and I saw his performance in his debate with Zakir Naik and it was pitiable. A man who is always trying to smile, clearly has something wrong with him. I have seen his face when he’s not smiling - and it ain’t a pretty sight. "
I agree. The man is far more of a politician than a master. That is one of the reasons why he constantly makes an effort to smile - he wants to project a certain image of being blissful. And I have heard many of his responses to questions - it seems that he is not interested at all in assisting others towards their awakening. He constantly offers sweet words to those who want to hear sweet words. Otherwise, he would not have continued saying things which are just intended to make you feel safe, comfortable, secure - giving consolation to ones ego. Because he knows very well, just being a practical man, that if he were to do such a thing - more than half of his disciples will flee from him. If he were to state things which come a bit closer to reality - then most people are not going to find it appealing because reality has no obligation to fit into your view as to how things should be. Perhaps, such an approach may be useful just as bait so that others may get caught in the hook and go deeper. Even Gautama Buddha used to mold his language according to the people to whom he was speaking - when he was speaking with Hindus he used to use the word “Atman”, even though a central part of his teaching was the opposite - “Anatman”.
But that is not Sri Sri Ravishankars approach, because in the first place he is not interested in bringing others to their awakening, nor is he awakened, he is just interested in building a reputation for himself and the foundation he represents. It is just his profession. Many “masters” are not really “masters”, they are just performing their profession. They are a bit like priests, although they do not have that title or represent an organized religion. The followers who come to the priest come to him because they believe that he has some intimate connection with God, the same is the case with those who come to these “masters”, people believe they are enlightened without a question and that is all that is needed. That is how people like Sri Sri Ravishankar, Shri Mataji, Bhagavan of the Oneness movement, and others - have been successful at obtaining more and more followers. The whole work is just the work of satisfying other people’s ego, and in this way it is not different than the way businesses function in the business world. In fact - what they are doing is just business work, they are just interested in building a reputation for their non-profit organizations - not assisting others towards their liberation.[/QUOTE]
Good observation
How about "Patanjali Yoga Peeth" of Ramdev Baba?
Does the following link makes any sense?
http://www.chauthiduniya.com/2011/03/baba-ramdev-is-exposed-by-pramod-krishnam-exclusive.html
Honestly, I do not have any affiliation to any of these cults, I love following scriptures and try getting as little as possible.
However, this thread is to put forth all the available information (true or false) about cults for the readers and so I am posting this. It is for the individuals to decide.
[QUOTE=Sahasrara;57026]True, agreed.
Do you mean to say that SY is the only way? If yes, can you justify why SY is the only universal key to open Sahasrara and not others?[/QUOTE]Because in 1970 Shri Mataji has opened Sahasrara chakra at Collective level and SHE holds the key.
[QUOTE=Seeker33;57034]Because in 1970 Shri Mataji has opened Sahasrara chakra at Collective level and SHE holds the key.
http://youtu.be/RpNYZAAQ0fM[/QUOTE]
Only she holds the key not Jesus too? Not Allah too? Not any other cult? Before her who was holding the key, Maharishi Mahesh yogi? Why not Hanuman? Why not Gayatri? Why not Shiva? Why not Maha Visnhu? Why not Krishna? Why not Krishna of ISKON? Why not Shakti, whose reincarnation is Mata ji, perceived by Mataji cult members? Why should I follow an incarnation and why not directly Shakti?
All others are not holding the key, because they cannot be published in youtube or youtube did not exist in that period or they did not have an organized business to collect donations and conduct charity projects?
This is the very nature of the cults They start preaching they are the only one who holds the key to enlightenment?
What happened to all those who got Kundalini raised in that mass Mesmerization? How many are doing good and how many left the organization? How many are in jail and how many are atheist? Do you have the statistics of all those who attended and got their Sahasrara opened? What happened to all those who has their kundalini raised? Can you publish the complete list of people who attended this?
After Sahasrara opened what happens? You start your own organization and start collecting money for charity projects? Enter into politics? Start doing arms deals all over the world, like some cult figure did?
Is the dharma of modern age Sahasrara opening?
Why not you try my method of opening Sahasrara, before you discount and say only she holds the key?
Can I have a choice to follow others too? Are they all fake?
[B][U]
Wow! Fallacy is truth where ignorance is bliss![/U][/B]
Om Tat Sat! Hari Om Tat Sat!
If someone is thirsty he will seek water. Did you awaken your Kundalini?
[QUOTE=Seeker33;57039]If someone is thirsty he will seek water. Did you awaken your Kundalini?[/QUOTE]
Are you open to try the method I suggested? If you do not want to, you are not thirsty and you do not want to awaken your Kundalini
There are some who can quench their thirst with Coke, Pepsi and any Soda. I like water only. Am wrong, or you will brand me that I do not know to quench my thirst?
Can you tell me any other water other than the water you are giving me? I am allergic to your water
Please answer my questions and do not counter question. I think you want to flood this thread with your SY only by not giving chance to discuss about other cults:) I understood your tactics Sir:) Move on.
Whatever terms and names that can be used, they are all certain to impose limitations. All words and descriptions are just the projections of thought. Anything that can be said about it, is just pointing towards the Way and nothing else.
There is a wise saying in our tradition: “The mind is both the enslaver and the liberator” Yes, it is the mind that has enslaved us through language by separating everything into separate things in time and space, with names, labels etc - but the same language can liberate us, when you can clearly label things, understand how things work, and then utilize those things towads our benefit.
Like it or not, you have to use language. You do live in a real world. You do have senses and you do have mind. If you did not use language, you would not know the difference between a snake and a rope, between poison and medicine, between what is right and what is wrong. You would up living a highly foolish life where you would try climbing up a snake, taking poison when you have a tummy ache, and failing your math exam because you think 2+2 = 5. In short you would get yourself into all kinds of mess, and more likely than not, you would be dead before you knew it.
So put your borrowed Buddhistic philosophy to one side and get real. I am different to you and you are different to me, does that not establish we are separate people? If you get pleasure, I don’t. If you get pain, I don’t. If you get enlightenment, I don’t. Why, because we are separate conscious being. I make my decisions, you make yours.
That there is an is “us” is undeniable. For even to deny you, you would have to admit the one that denies. The fact that there is a you, who knows, sees, desires, feels is absolute. There is you and then there is a world that you interact with, that contains all kinds of things from other people, animals, planets, stars, solar systems, galaxies. If you deny this, then you are irrational.
Our wise scientists have noted that there are very clear differences between “us” and the “world” For example, we can forget things, we can get angry. Imagine if the sun forgot to shine one day because it got angry Wisdom then tells us that “us” and the “world” are very different in quality. This is the wise discernment between matter and consciousness, spirit and not spirit, observer and observed. It gives us knowledge that we are separate substances, it lets us know that we are merely witnesses of the world, we are not actually in it. The great science of Yoga which you take for granted was built based on this discernment. It reverses the illusion that you are in this world. Ultimately, taking you to a state beyond being and non-being. It takes you from consciousness, subconsciousness, unconsciousness to a state beyond all three. It takes you from physical body, mental body, causal body to something beyond all three. It takes you to the ultimate.
What you are trying to pretend is that you are already at the the goal before taking the journey. You expect us to throw away language, throw away control, throw away our ego, and just leave ourselves prey to nature. And that is why you are a huge fool. If you leave yourself prey to the world, you will be preyed on
Drop both being, drop even non-being, and come to a direct encounter with the inexpressible.
That ain’t going to happen until you can have a direct encounter with the expressible Ground yourself son, or you’ll fall into space.
Just an observation: What the dialogue between me and and Amir is really accentuating is how different Buddhism and Hinduism are. One denies the self, one asserts it; one denies language, one asserts it; one denies control and one asserts it… one is lost in the clouds and the other is practical and down to earth
This is why Hinduism invented all the sciences and Buddhism went the nihilism path. Yeah, lets just annihilate ourselves and not make any efforts and do the gardening or something or drink tea and become one with the moment. No wonder the Buddhist province Ghandara fell to Muslim invaders immediately. The Hindus at least put up a fight in their kingdoms
Ever heard of Buddhist freedom fighters?