Cults In Yoga - Siddha / Brahma Kumaris / Sahaja Yoga, etc (often non physical Yoga)

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#230

All other Yogas still somehow plug into Raja Yoga. Hatha Yoga itself says it was a means towards Raja Yoga. Bhakti Yoga is just Raja Yoga, except with an external object of high reverence. Kriya Yoga can fit into the pranayama part of Raja Yoga. Kriya Yoga however, is perhaps a full path in itself and not just an appendage to Raja Yoga, as it works directly with prana to control the mind and when the kundalini is awakened it takes you to the samadhi state anyway.

I guess one way of getting there is meditation. Another way of getting there is the alchemy of Kriya Yoga.

#231

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57243]All other Yogas still somehow plug into Raja Yoga. Hatha Yoga itself says it was a means towards Raja Yoga. Bhakti Yoga is just Raja Yoga, except with an external object of high reverence. Kriya Yoga can fit into the pranayama part of Raja Yoga. Kriya Yoga however, is perhaps a full path in itself and not just an appendage to Raja Yoga, as it works directly with prana to control the mind and when the kundalini is awakened it takes you to the samadhi state anyway.

I guess one way of getting there is meditation. Another way of getting there is the alchemy of Kriya Yoga.[/QUOTE]

The “kriya yoga” system culls the essentials from the various flavors of yoga ( hatha, laya, jnana, mantra, raja) and so on - to lead one towards the “position of raja.”

That is what makes it special.

When I say the Position of Raja - I mean you are really a yogi.

When i say you are really a yogi that means you can achieve both objectionable samyama and non-objectional samadhi.

#232

“Jesus said: “I am the son of GOD”. How many people believed him?”

Certainly, only those who are as mad as himself are going to believe such a madman, declaring himself as the long awaited messiah who has come to liberate not just the Jews, but the whole humanity. If that is the Jesus that you are thinking of - then the man was as asleep as you are. There has never been a Buddha who has ever declared that your liberation lies in his hands.

#233

“I guess one way of getting there is meditation”

If one is to be in living communion with existence, then there is no other process except meditation. Because meditation simply means to remain a witness in the present. To remain a witness in the present is not something that can be done as an effort of the mind, although an effort of the mind is needed in the beginning. But it is the natural quality of awareness itself. That is one of the reasons why most people struggle with meditation, because they are trying to witness as a technique.

Unless you are a witness to the present, then it is impossible to be in tune with things as they are in your experience, because everything is being orchestrated from this very moment. Shift out of this moment, and you have shifted out of the whole existence. So it is not that meditation is a means towards being in tune with reality - it is itself being integrated with reality.

#234

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57248]“Jesus said: ?I am the son of GOD?. How many people believed him?”

Certainly, only those who are as mad as himself are going to believe such a madman, declaring himself as the long awaited messiah who has come to liberate not just the Jews, but the whole humanity. If that is the Jesus that you are thinking of - then the man was as asleep as you are. There has never been a Buddha who has ever declared that your liberation lies in his hands.[/QUOTE]

Everyone is awake! No one is asleep. Even when they sleep. They are still awake.

god could you be anymore of an arrogant prick?

You punk kid.

#235

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57249]“I guess one way of getting there is meditation”

If one is to be in living communion with existence, then there is no other process except meditation. Because meditation simply means to remain a witness in the present. To remain a witness in the present is not something that can be done as an effort of the mind, although an effort of the mind is needed in the beginning. But it is the natural quality of awareness itself. That is one of the reasons why most people struggle with meditation, because they are trying to witness as a technique.

Unless you are a witness to the present, then it is impossible to be in tune with things as they are in your experience, because everything is being orchestrated from this very moment. Shift out of this moment, and you have shifted out of the whole existence. So it is not that meditation is a means towards being in tune with reality - it is itself being integrated with reality.[/QUOTE]

Your definition is incorrect.

You know Zero.

Please don’t come on here and give any advice. All you do is cause yourself and others more delusion.

There is no merit in your actions because you are not in knowledge.

Shouldn’t you be playing nintendo instead of digging your hole deeper and deeper?

#236

“Everyone is awake! No one is asleep.”

You are again searching knowingly or unknowingly for excuses to continue living in the same way that you have always been living. And your system will try and resist transformation at almost any cost - manufacturing as many excuses as needed to keep yourself comfortable, feeling protected, in the warmth of security. The fact is that unless one invests tremendous attention and energy into coming to know oneself, then suffering is inevitable. Part of the whole process of coming to know oneself is first to recognize that you are asleep, that so far you have been living your life out of ignroance. Unless one first comes to a recognition of ones ignorance, in the same breath one has denied oneself of the possibility of seeking and finding.

“Please don’t come on here and give any advice”

Will continue coming on here, giving advice, and pressing on your wounds where it hurts. If you are disturbed by it, then sit for meditation.

“All you do is cause yourself and others more delusion.”

Yes, I am entangled in a great delusion. That is why - because you have your own delusions, you should not even be concerned with that of others. If you have any interest in your own liberation, settle your own condition first.

#237

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57255]“Everyone is awake! No one is asleep.”

You are again searching knowingly or unknowingly for excuses to continue living in the same way that you have always been living. And your system will try and resist transformation at almost any cost - manufacturing as many excuses as needed to keep yourself comfortable, feeling protected, in the warmth of security. The fact is that unless one invests tremendous attention and energy into coming to know oneself, then suffering is inevitable. Part of the whole process of coming to know oneself is first to recognize that you are asleep, that so far you have been living your life out of ignroance. Unless one first comes to a recognition of ones ignorance, in the same breath one has denied oneself of the possibility of seeking and finding.

“Please don’t come on here and give any advice”

Will continue coming on here, giving advice, and pressing on your wounds where it hurts. If you are disturbed by it, then sit for meditation.

“All you do is cause yourself and others more delusion.”

Yes, I am entangled in a great delusion. That is why - because you have your own delusions, you should not even be concerned with that of others. If you have any interest in your own liberation, settle your own condition first.[/QUOTE]

I don’t read your lenghty responses to me. Just to let you know.

[B]This is because you are a punk kid of 25 years old - who has absolutely nothing of value to share with me. [/B]

I do however sometimes read your responses to others.

You are a fool, and not in a good way.

did you eat your fruit loops this morning?

Want a lolly pop?

*** Member was banned for seven days for this post. - Forum Admin - 04/14/2011 at 7:11 am central

#238

“who has absolutely nothing of value to share with me.”

Then continue on your way.

#239

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57237]I am considering Kriya Yoga as my path, but I have a pull towards Raja Yoga. Raja Yoga is harder and slower, but the most simplest to do: observe.[/QUOTE]Please describe in [B]one sentence[/B], how to achieve Enlightenment with Raja yoga.

#240

#241

[QUOTE=Seeker33;57261]Please describe in [B]one sentence[/B], how to achieve Enlightenment with Raja yoga.[/QUOTE]

I just did. Shall I simplify?

  1. Sit comfortably and close your eyes
  2. Observe your mind dipassionately without identifying with any thoughts
  3. Maintain indefinitely

Maintain this single meditation for several days(Buddha did it for 40 days) and you will get somewhere. If you want to get to enlightenment, you will have to maintain it for a month at least.

You will find this next to impossible to do for the following reasons:

  1. Your body is not flexible and healthy enough to sit for this long in a single posture. After about 40-50 min you will start to experience physical pain, stiff joints, random aches. Later physical restlessness, tiredness, drowsiness.

  2. Your breath is not regular. Irregular breathing causes a poor flow of prana in the body and thus the mind does not get relaxed enough to enter meditation.

  3. Your senses remain onn. Everytime you receive a sense impression from the world such as a sound, a smell or a touch it will distract you. Until, you cannot reach the stage where you shut them off. You will remain in your ordinary baseline state of consciousness. A shift in consciousness is unmistakable.

  4. Your mind is not one pointed. Your mind is not trained to remain in a single focus, it is highly scattered and agitated. You will find it next to impossible in not idenfying with your thoughts and day dreaming. Thus your focus will not strongh enough to go deeper.

Respectively here are the solutions to overcoming these problems: asana training, pranayama training, antar mouna training(see "Did I achieive Pratyahara thread) and trataka training. Develop a training program where you do each exercise a day in addition to your daily meditations. It took Buddha about 10 years of training to get enlightenment. It will take you longer.

#242

[QUOTE=The Scales;57251]Your definition is incorrect.

You know Zero.

Please don’t come on here and give any advice. All you do is cause yourself and others more delusion.

There is no merit in your actions because you are not in knowledge.

Shouldn’t you be playing nintendo instead of digging your hole deeper and deeper?[/QUOTE]

I donno Scales. I actually agree with his comment on the nature of meditation. Perhaps it aint sound so novel, but I acknowledge one thing that he has tasted a little bit of master wisdom. His words reflect that.

I think you tied to automatic rejection when it comes to Amir. Surya says he is pretentious and that his fraudulence is a foregone conclusion. And thus Surya has fallen into the fallacy of choosing a rival/enemy to sate his intellectual thirst. Since he has this very strict cirteria that one has to satisfy certain things that many Indian yogis did to attain enlightenment.

What is your excuse? Perhaps because the nature of his comments, the ‘i-know-how’ thing is bugging you? Yet it is possible that perhaps he has come to know how, although not entirely, altogether.

So what if he is 25 years old? I could show you a 13 year-old kid who is far more intelligent than Einstein…

P.s. this aint a defense of Amir. This is an effort to understand why your rejection is tied to automatic :wink:

#243

Seeker 33,

You know I actually feel sorry for you, that you cannot see the blatantly obvious parallels between what your Cult claims and all others. As well as the practices inherent in it.

Every Cult especially Eastern ones, claim - ours is the best way to get enlightenment or the ultimate way. I’ve met many Sahaja Yoga people they are NOT in general the happiest and most content people you could meet, they are not in general spiritually enlightened.

What is holding you back Seeker 33 in your spiritual progress is thinking you already have all the answers and have experienced enlightenment through Shri Mataji’s teachings. People in SY wouldn’t know it if enlightenment came up and hit them off the head.

SY techniques are specifically designed to give you ‘highs’ or as feeling of spiritual enlightenment, just as the teaching of Scientology are; though only the very naive confuse either with real enlightenment or spirituality.

[B]If Shri Mataji was the only one with all the answers and a direct incarnation of God - she failed miserably by having a tiny following and reaching so few people. [/B] [B][I]If she actually was the only incarnation in modern times and all she claimed, you not think it likely she would have attracted a bigger following? [/I][/B]

Her following was small because everyone knew she was not what she claimed, and most could not take her remotely seriously.

[B]Reasons why her following remained so small & few took her seriously : [/B]

http://www.sahajacult.com/photos/0003.htm

http://www.sahajacult.com/photos/0007.htm

#244

[QUOTE=High Wolf;57291][B]I donno Scales.[/B] I actually agree with his comment on the nature of meditation. Perhaps it aint sound so novel, but I acknowledge one thing that he has tasted a little bit of master wisdom. His words reflect that.

I think you tied to automatic rejection when it comes to Amir. Surya says he is pretentious and that his fraudulence is a foregone conclusion. And thus Surya has fallen into the fallacy of choosing a rival/enemy to sate his intellectual thirst. Since he has this very strict cirteria that one has to satisfy certain things that many Indian yogis did to attain enlightenment.

What is your excuse? Perhaps because the nature of his comments, the ‘i-know-how’ thing is bugging you? Yet it is possible that perhaps he has come to know how, although not entirely, altogether.

So what if he is 25 years old? I could show you a 13 year-old kid who is far more intelligent than Einstein…

P.s. this aint a defense of Amir. This is an effort to understand why your rejection is tied to automatic ;)[/QUOTE]

Thats it.

The bold.

I do know.

#245

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57269]I just did. Shall I simplify?

  1. Sit comfortably and close your eyes
  2. Observe your mind dipassionately without identifying with any thoughts
  3. Maintain indefinitely

Maintain this single meditation for several days(Buddha did it for 40 days) and you will get somewhere. If you want to get to enlightenment, you will have to maintain it for a month at least. .[/QUOTE]Looks like that I was not clear enough. Please give me the clear definition about the way leading to Enlightenment, according Raja and Kriya yoga.
?you will get somewhere?
Is this what Raja and Kriya yoga are promising to their followers.

#246

[QUOTE=MindNinja;57292][B]If Shri Mataji was the only one with all the answers and a direct incarnation of God - she failed miserably by having a tiny following and reaching so few people. [/B] [B][I]If she actually was the only incarnation in modern times and all she claimed, you not think it likely she would have attracted a bigger following? [/I][/B][/QUOTE]Dear, these are you human ideas about incarnations. The reality is something different. Look in the past and see what happened with the teachings of all messengers of God.

Everything gets spoiled from us.
If you are connected you will know who is Shri Mataji.
But those who are realized know about me very well.

#247

Please give me the clear definition about the way leading to Enlightenment, according Raja and Kriya yoga.
“you will get somewhere”
Is this what Raja and Kriya yoga are promising to their followers.

Seeker, everybody here knows you do not sincerely want to know about other paths. Rather you want to compare them to SY and then tell us they are inferior to SY because SY gives you self-realization straight away. How do you know? When you put your hands above your head you felt a cool breeze. There you go, your definition of enlightenment is feeling a cool breeze over your head.

The definition of enlightenment in Raja yoga is achieiving a state of full discrimination between purusha and prakriti thereby purusha realising its own nature and gaining full mastery over prakriti. This is also said as dissolving all the modifications of consciousness since the very beginning of time. It is also said as achieiving objectless samadhi, the final union with the ultimate self, where only the ultimate self remains. It is unmistakable when you have got to this stage, because you will have godly powers.

Compare: Becoming god-like and having godly powers vs feeling a cool breeze. over your head :wink:

#248

Seeker have you not read the Yoga Sutras?

Which - as far as I know - is a terse treatise on the yogic system dealing with 8 parts: Yam/Niyama, Asana thru to Samadhi.

Patanjali writes there are two categories of samadhis or ‘meditations’

the samadhi without an object

the samadhi with an object

Yes?

Samadhi without an object as I understand it leads to “liberation.”

Samadhi with an object is a tool of the yogin.

Ok?

Hatha supports Raja. Raja is yoga Proper. When the yogin is in the postion of Raja? What can he not do?

The “path” of Raja is the eight limbs of ‘classic yoga’

Yam/niyam thru to samadhi.

“Kriya” is - as I understand it - is “action” or “working towards the positoin of Raja”

Mmmmm Kay?

The yogi to be - uses the 8 limbs to work towards being able to do the samadhis with and without seed.

I believe it is the guru who elaborates on the practices that comprises the 8 limbs. Suitable for the student.

#249

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57392]Seeker, everybody here knows you do not sincerely want to know about other paths. Rather you want to compare them to SY and then tell us they are inferior to SY because SY gives you self-realization straight away. How do you know? When you put your hands above your head you felt a cool breeze. [B]There you go, your definition of enlightenment is feeling a cool breeze over your head.[/B][/QUOTE]Yoga means ??union, connection?. Connection between us and this All Pervading power will happen at Sahahasra point.
Patanjali spoke about chakras, but he didn?t about Kundalini. May be we were not ready about this. [B]Now is the time.[/B]

Only feeling the connection is not and of the story. The problem is that other ?yogas? can?t?reach even this state. [B]What about Kaivalya.[/B]